[NBR] Tuning Tiny Scooters = Stupid Fun

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon May 30, 2016 5:08 am

As I mentioned in a prior thread, I've been fiddling with an '89 Honda Elite E for a friend's sister. This diminutive 50cc was a free cast-off that had no compression and the oil tank looked to be filled with swamp water. It's gotten a bit of work here and there when I had a few bucks to burn and time to futz with it. The engine got new seals and a new piston set. I had the cylinder head shaved by .020", raised the exhaust port 1.5mm and dremel-shaped the exhaust port stub's interior smooth and contoured to match the pipe ID.

The drive belt section was stripped and cleaned. This scooter doesn't have a CVT, but the rear sheave is built like a standard scooter so it was rebuilt like one. The stock drivebelt was swapped for a Dayton AX24 for a bit taller gearing. I never opened the final drive (duh), but on a pre-test check, it was found to be almost empty. Ho hum, new bearings and seals are on the way.

The rusty rims were stripped and blasted. The rear rim had been ghetto-converted to tubeless with a hogged out valve stem hole, a tubeless stem and a generous helping of gasket shellac around the bead surface...I tossed that wheel and got another crusty but unmolested rim. Both rims got a shot of Ducati red powdercoat, new brake shoes and oversize 2.75-10 tires.

Various other small parts were hunted: front turn signal lenses, a taillamp assembly, all taillamp lenses, mirrors, a brake cable, front wheel bearings, a front brake perch, a battery, an oil strainer and a fuel tap were among the items needed. Over time, they were collected and installed.

The last necessary bit was the muffler. The original muffler was packed full of oil sludge and carbon, adding enough heft to more than double its original weight. On a lark, I decided to install an MLM sidebleed expansion chamber exhaust that I'd bought for a personal project. It was cheaper than the (unavailable) factory exhaust would have cost and it is totally worth it for these scoots.

I drug it home this weekend to work on some final assembly so I could finally deliver it. Once assembled, I started the tuning process. Holy cow, this thing is fun! Originally, these scooters made 2.5hp and were capable of 28mph. No idea where the power is now (still diminutive), but it well and truly manages some tiny fury while accelerating me up to 38mph. While that top speed may still seem yawn-inducing for some folks, it is impressive for a non-variated engine with a mostly stock cylinder and is doing it while toting a rider who decidedly exceeds the max load capacity. I stand by my assertion that riding this is like stealing the neighbor's kid's bike and hooning around in it. Very tempted to add streamers to it prior to delivery (after changing the final drive bearings).

I'll get pictures in the daylight, and maybe figure out how to video this exercise in absurdity at work.

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Mon May 30, 2016 2:38 pm

Im sure you have seen this also. Back in the old days it always seemed a Honda Spree or Yamaha Razz got tossed in the bonfire at a scooter rally, after everyone took turns "trying" to kill it. Always thought "What a waste.", as that Spree or Razz could introduce a new person to motorized two wheel fun. I didnt start out on a Vespa or a Lammy, my first "real" scooter was a Honda Elite 80. Congrats on the rescue and hope she enjoys it!

ohiotj · Post by **ohiotj** » Mon May 30, 2016 11:05 pm

Sweet! My Elite-E is pretty fast too, but I went the engine swap route.

How does it do down low? I seem to recall it took forever to get to 10-12 MPH with the stock engine, then it finally got into its powerband, and had decent acceleration to its top speed.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue May 31, 2016 2:37 am

Pictures of the wee beastie:

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue May 31, 2016 2:43 am

sc00ter wrote:Im sure you have seen this also. Back in the old days it always seemed a Honda Spree or Yamaha Razz got tossed in the bonfire at a scooter rally, after everyone took turns "trying" to kill it. Always thought "What a waste.", as that Spree or Razz could introduce a new person to motorized two wheel fun. I didn't start out on a Vespa or a Lammy, my first "real" scooter was a Honda Elite 80. Congrats on the rescue and hope she enjoys it!

Yep, I've seen that. Last one I saw was a late-model Aero 50, which was a darn good 50. Shame to watch them trash it.

This one is for a first-time scooterist. Her mom has a matching bike, sans the powertrain tweaks and powdercoated wheels. They've both volunteered a lot to help with club events, so I figured I'd help get them in on the action. She's already got her gear and is ready to ride. Kinda bummed about the trans bearing, but I'll make it right so she has a positive experience.

I have another '90 Elite E and an '85 Spree. Once I finish resurrecting my '86 Gyro, I'm going to do one of those two up like this one. I really should finish my Zuma too!

PS, my first scooter was a '64 Vespa 150. When I took a hiatus from riding, my first scoot back was an '87 Elite 80, which I still have! Great little machine!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Tue May 31, 2016 2:51 am

ohiotj wrote:Sweet! My Elite-E is pretty fast too, but I went the engine swap route.

How does it do down low? I seem to recall it took forever to get to 10-12 MPH with the stock engine, then it finally got into its powerband, and had decent acceleration to its top speed.

It's still a bit snoozy until 10mph, but it wakes up a bit between 10-20 and really starts singing above 20. A variator would go a long way towards fixing that, but these single-speeds are OK for what they are.

I did take a video of a test ride! Not sure what I think of YouTube's stabilize function, though; looks like the bike is made of silly putty.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0_OsC7lk774" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rear wheel doesn't spin much because of the 2.75 tires. They both touch the ground with the stand down. Kept running out of road and riding, braking and turning one-handed isn't the best idea. The razzing sound on decel are coming from the headset and nose panel. Could probably put some rubber washers in to damp those vibrations.

I remember your swap on the GRM site; read it over a few times. Very wicked! In an interesting karmic twist, I bought a '74 VeloSolex off Craigslist late last year and it came with some freebies: Spree body panels and a front hub / complete engine for a CH250. I could build a replica now...

I do want to do the TazLand BBK, as I have the transmission upgear already...kinda want to see a single-speed Spree touch 50mph before going the transplant route. I also have that "ugly stick" Express II to build up when space permits...

sc00ter · Post by **sc00ter** » Tue May 31, 2016 4:35 am

The Elite 50 scooters are so tiny! Parking it next to a Yager (also small for a 200) is deceiving, as almost no one has seen a Yager in the wild and cannot relate to the size differences. I have always been fascinated with the Gyro scooters but have always passed when they come up for sale because I flipped the "roof model" at a junkyard (long story) and have refused to get back on that horse! Dont let your addiction wear off on me, as I have no time for a project (though an early 90's CBR900RR or a late 90's/early 2000's Helix would be a cool rescue/restore idea)-I mean NO, STUPID IDEA! Must think good thoughts! Anyways, cool little Elite rescue, and it looks sharp!

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Tue May 31, 2016 11:39 am

I have three scooters, and the most fun I have hooliganing around is on the Roughhouse 50. I can't wait for the warranty to expire to go with the bbk and pipe.

ohiotj · Post by **ohiotj** » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:34 am

az_slynch wrote:
I remember your swap on the GRM site; read it over a few times. Very wicked! In an interesting karmic twist, I bought a '74 VeloSolex off Craigslist late last year and it came with some freebies: Spree body panels and a front hub / complete engine for a CH250. I could build a replica now...

Go for it! If you end up having any questions, let me know. It would make a lot more sense to build a complete custom frame than the mashup that I did. I'm actually putting mine up for sale, since we aren't drag racing them around here any more, and I just picked up a Big Ruckus to play with.

Also, it'd be wild to see a non-variated Elite E do 50

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:25 pm

So, there has been a delay in delivering this little spud to it's new owner. As previously mentioned, the final drive was effectively dry and even with gear oil added, it started making crunchy noises after a few miles of break-in runs. I ordered all the necessary bits from CheapCycleParts and waited.

Finally got most of the parts last Tuesday. Called CCP on Thursday, found out which parts were NLA or backordered and hit eBay for the missing bits. Received the final bearing and seal needed today.

Trouble is, it's 109 on my patio and the garage temp is always several degrees warmer due to southern exposure. I hope it's cool enough tonight to drop a drip tray on the driveway and knock this thing apart. Hope I don't have any damaged gears...

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:26 am

Done! The crunchy bearing appears to have been the one that supports the clutch shaft. The clutch shaft and output shaft gears looked good. Three bearings, two shaft seals and some Valvoline hi-po gear oil later, it runs quiet and true.

Rejetted the main from a #68 to a #70 since it smelled a touch warm after some WOT running. Plug looks pretty good.

Only nuisance is that the aftermarket fuel tap (stamped "FULE") has already failed on the open state. Good thing it has a new float and needle. I'll leave it to the new owner to see if they want to buy a new Honda tap. I've already got enough invested in this pony.

The takeaway from today's work is that if you want to rebuild the gearbox with the engine in the bike, a TUSK crankshaft puller/installer works great on transmission shafts too. I recommend one for any serious scooter mechanic's toolbox.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:51 am

Delivered the little Elite to it's new owner. Got a major smile and hug for my troubles. These are the moments that make the rebuilds worthwhile.

So, with one little black Honda scooter out of my truck, I followed up on a Craigslist lead for another. Picked up a partially disassembled but complete '87 Elite S with 3K on the odometer. Will need fumigation, carb cleaning and possibly a cylinder hone / rings, but not bad for the price. Parked it at the club garage so I can work it in behind the Gyro, Zuma and P200E.

Probably should bring my Spree home and knock it together at some point too...