Anyone wanna guess? Break-down!

[sc00ter]

My 2023 Buddy 125 is currently just under 8000 miles. I've had this weird loss of power going on for the last few days, like someone was gently pulling the brakes and slowly releasing them. I figured it was something transmission related and I was going to address it this holiday weekend. Not now! I was going to work today and the Buddy suddenly lost power. It started to ride like a crappy 50cc. It still starts fine, idles fine and fuel consumption is normal but I found this. I checked the oil at work and the oil was all the way up to the top of the dipstick hole. It actually overflowed when I removed the dipstick! I suspect a oil pump failure. I left it at work and I'll go back for it when I calm down. I have a year left on my warranty but my local dealer is not the most confidence inspiring. So...

Based on the description above anyone want to fathom a guess? The oil didn't have fuel in it as it didn't ignite when tested. I change the oil with Genuine's house brand oil every 2000 miles, and change the oil filter as well. I checked the oil 2 weeks ago after giving the Buddy a bath and it was at the proper level. I'm going to check the following when I get it home:
Spark plug for anything strange.
Valve check if the plug looks normal.
I do have a magnetic drain plug so I'll check that I guess. I swept a magnet on a stick into the fill/dipstick hole and it came up clean.

Oh, the oil looks nasty! Dark black and is thin like water. I'll try to post a good picture of it.

Only thing I can think of that made the Buddy protest was I was watching Kawasaki KLX300 video reviews lately.

[scootERIK]

Oh man that sucks, I hope it's nothing to major(but luckily you are still under warranty.)

The high oil level could contribute to the poor performance, or at least some of the poor performance. But I don't know if that is the whole problem or just part of it. Also, not sure what else could cause the oil level to be high other than gas*.

If it was me the first thing I would do is dump the oil and refill to the middle of the oil range on the dipstick and see how it runs, plus the other things you mentioned. I would also open up the airbox and make sure that is clean and dry(mainly making sure there is no gas in there.) Based on how it runs after changing the oil would determine what I did next. If performance goes back to normal I would keep riding and do daily oil level checks. If it still runs like crap I would give the carb a once over just to see if everything is clean and looks right, especially the float needle. Next would be to give the CVT a once over just to make sure is it clean and everything is in good shape.

* I have had gas in my oil on several occasions, it would run bad I believe that was from as the gas that was also in the airbox and it would clear up and 10-20 miles. I don't think I ever had my oil level get high enough to overflow.

[350kmi]

It is pretty odd that your oil level is going up, but I have had it happen in three different ways. In order for the level to go up something has to be getting in to the crankcase and mixing with the oil.

1) Coolant. Since the Buddy 125 is air-cooled this isn't your problem, but a bad head-gasket would allow coolant into the oil if it were water-coooled.

2) Water. This was a problem on a friends 2003 Honda Metropolitan. This scooter was used for many short trips and the crankcase ventilation was not moving enough air to get combustion moisture out of the crankcase on the short rides and the water would condense in the crankcase and mix with the oil. (On 2006 and newer Metros the system was improved.)

3) Oil. I have actually had this happen on two scooter: a 1985 Honda Elite 250 and a 2003 Vespa ET4. In both cases the problem the vacuum fuel valve on the bottom of the tank failed allowing gas to flow freely when parked. The float needle wasn't able to entirely hold the gas back and over time the carburetor to overflow into the intake which leaked into the cylinder. Once in the cylinder the gas would leak passed the rings and into the crankcase and mix with the oil.

I'm not sure it one of these is your problem, but these are my guesses.

[sc00ter]

Have one more clue to add to the great mystery. I've been adding a tad of 2-stroke oil to my gas lately. I also never run the tank down below 3/4ths. I looked in the tank and the gas is dark blue from the 2-stroke. Its been adding up and the cap full here and there turned into a super rich mix. I'm thinking that the now rich mox is not fully burning when getting into the valve head, then the excess goes back to the air filter. It makes a bit of sense to me.

The Buddy is safe in my garage tonight. I'm going to put fresh gas in it and start the trouble shooting no later than the weekend. It's really eating at me and I'm already sick of driving the car, but I do enjoy the stereo! I spent all day at work watching commuter scooter and motorcycle reviews. The only scooter that can sway me is a SYM CityCom 300i, the new S model. But I get a iffy vibe from my local SYM dealer. I'm to dumb to master a Honda Super Cub semi-shift (or too lazy to shift) and I can't toss my leg like a cowboy to get my fat old butt on a enduro. Anyways, if anyone else wants to guess or amend their original guess bring 'em on. I'm a dummy sometimes so I always find the weird way to cause a problem(s).

[scootERIK]

Have one more clue to add to the great mystery. I've been adding a tad of 2-stroke oil to my gas lately. I also never run the tank down below 3/4ths. I looked in the tank and the gas is dark blue from the 2-stroke. Its been adding up and the cap full here and there turned into a super rich mix. I'm thinking that the now rich mox is not fully burning when getting into the valve head, then the excess goes back to the air filter. It makes a bit of sense to me.

That could easily be causing all your issues. Oil change then drain gas and replace with fresh(I would drain the float bowl once or twice to clean the fuel line out too.) It wouldn't hurt to pull the spark plug and make sure it's clean. Then go out for a 20+ mile ride and see if it clears up*. If it doesn't clear up I would take a look at the air filter and clean the carb out.

*Also, don't top the tank off until the problem is fixed. My thinking is if there is any chance your oily gas mix got in the evap system it might take a long time for that to clear out. But I wouldn't worry about this unless the problem is still there after the 20 mile ride.

[sc00ter]

Update: Changed oil. I put in some cheap 10-40 oil in it for now as I'm just under 200 miles from my next major service. I also changed the filter as a precaution. Nothing weird on the drain magnet. Screen looked clean as well. Also changed the air filter. Nothing suspect found as well, filter housing inner was spotless. I tried to ignite the old oil again for gasoline contamination but as before, it wouldn't ignite. Spark plug looked normal, just a tad bit lean, but nothing of concern. I still want to upjet one size on the main. I ran out of time to do a test ride so the final verdict is unknown at the moment BUT everything points toward success! Oh, and I do intend to keep a better eye on the oil level for awhile. I've never checked the oil on a Buddy between the 2000 mile oil changes unless I do a 200 mile death ride to Richmond, or ride with a friend who likes to go balls out. The level has always stayed where I originally filled it at change time. I'll give it a look for now on!

Hopefully get a test ride in this weekend and all is normal. To be continued.......

[sc00ter]

Alright, all seems normal so far! I did a 35 mile ride this morning and was aggressive on the throttle the whole time. The oil is at the same level as I filled it to and nothing weird about the color. I diluted the fuel in the tank a bit over half with fresh fuel and I'll take it out the next few mornings and run the crap outta it and add fresh fuel WITHOUT any 2-cycle oil added for now on!

Oh, and power seems normal again, no "drag" or fluctuations in delivery. Take-off seems normal as well. I will make a quick confession though, I looked into another scooter. I stopped by my local Genuine dealer (and SYM as well) and inquired about a 2024 SYM CityCom 300i. Only inquired as they did not have one in stock and would have to order it in. I loved my ragged out CityCom I purchased from a friend. It lost a main bearing in the variator end. It died at 40,000 miles if I recall and most of those miles were wound out freeway miles. I got 2 years of trouble free riding from it looking all ratty and beat-up. The prior owner was lazy AND cheap as well. Never washed and he used the cheapest of everything for services. I tossed that scooter in the trash with a free sign on it and a scrap metal man grabbed it quick! Was not worth fixing. That being said I still love my Buddy so much and it still makes me smile when I ride it.

[sc00ter]

Second test run today. I did 47 miles of mixed riding. Half full out blast and the other sitting in heavy traffic, wondering why I wore my mesh armor jacket on a hot day! Dumb drivers and a 3 day weekend is why. Back to the mystery oil topic. ALL GOOD, same results as above! Buddy's are durable little scoots. One can survive my dumb 2-cycle oil experiment.

I think I ended my love affair with a SYM CityCom. I can't find the website I used to order parts from. Come to think about it, I can't find any good websites for parts. Not just for the usual stuff like consumables but any needed "Oh crap!" part. Ever since Carter Bros. wen't belly up (or burnt down) and Alliance took over parts support is a vague at best. Shame as SYM deserves better in the USA.

[scootERIK]

That's good news. These Buddy can take a lot. I have often wondered just how much abuse one could take. For instance I really think a Buddy 125 could handle going 10k+ without changing the oil just adding as needed. I wouldn't be surprised if a Buddy could be ran using chainsaw bar oil(which is usually the cheapest oil in the store.)

[sc00ter]

Yes, the Buddy 125 will go just under 10,000 miles without an oil change before blowing up a end bearing, if I recall. Don't ask me how I know this but I might have made a thread on this topic waaaaay back in the day. My current Buddy lives the good life. It gets the best health care of any scooter!