Long time away - need some help

[charlie55]

HI folks:

I haven't been on the forum for quite a while now, but I need some expertise from the collective!

After 16 years of riding, I've decided to hang up my boots for good. I still have plenty of confidence in my abilities, but the volume of automotive dumbassery around my neck of the woods in New Jersey has reached the point where every ride is like an episode of "Survivor". That being the case, I'm prepping my '06 Helix for sale. Unfortunately, I've run into a weird situation that I absolutely cannot resolve.

The scoot starts up perfectly and idles very nicely for about a minute before dying out. During that first minute I can tell that the enricher (bystarter) is doing its thing as the RPMs are elevated, and then comes the sudden drop. On the face of it, it appears as if the enrichment circuit is closing before the engine is fully warmed up. If I nurse the throttle for another minute or so, the scoot is able to maintain idle and performs normally (beautifully) thereafter, so it's not the idle jet (BTW, I've cleaned the carb three times, put in new jets, checked for air leaks, etc).

I've gone through two aftermarket enrichers (the Honda OEM's are almost impossible to get and the price has skyrocketed to the point where they're about 25% of the cost of an entire new carb).

I did some bench testing of the enricher and found that the cutoff time varies with the ambient temperature as follows:

60 degrees: 2 minutes
70 degrees: 1 minute, 30 seconds
75 degrees: 55 seconds
78 degrees: 50 seconds

At full cutoff, the enricher's case temperature is about 85 degrees, and it achieves a maximum temperature of about 95 degrees.

Now, the temps here in NJ have been in the high 80's and 90's for weeks, and I'm starting to believe that it's that ambient temperature that's "fooling" the enricher into thinking that the engine is good to go way too early. I don't recall this problem occurring in past hot summers.

So, my wise friends, am I just being bitten by non-OEM-itis, or can you think of something that I might have overlooked?

Many thanks!

[sc00ter]

I had a similar issue with a Zuma 2-stroke. My issue was a tiny bit of corrosion in the carb opening where the auto-choke plugs into. The corrosion would catch the slide, causing it to hang up. Clean it out and it would eventually return. On the Helix I honestly don't recall having that problem with either when I owned them. Your trouble shooting is much more skilled than mine, so I'm kinda useless on enricher issues. But I've been on the hunt for a Helix for a long time so I guess I need to learn this enricher item if I find one.

I know lots of people use the "clone" China parts when OEM is silly money or exact replacement isn't required. Are you using a Qlink/CFmoto enricher? So my questions for you:
Who are you ordering parts from for "clone" stuff?
Is the China clone compatible stuff overall?
And personal stuff:
How many miles on your 06 Helix?
What color (please say yellow) and overall condition?
What are you trying to pull price wise?

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. The Helix is a great scooter. I also fully understand your reason for not riding anymore. I got into ebikes and only really use my Buddy for commuting M-F. I work weird hours so I'm never in rush hour traffic BUT I still see drivers doing dumb stuff on a daily basis.

[charlie55]

I went with various aftermarket chokes because of the ridiculous OEM price - $75.00 or more. This was always a $25 -$30 part at most. Also, they're getting hard to find. I wasted a couple of weeks ordering OEM from otherwise reliable parts houses, only to be informed days later that they were out of stock and didnt know when they would have morel God forbid they keep their websites up to date.

I may just have to bite the bullet and wait. China knockoffs are overwhelmingly garbage, and the sellers often (read: usually) lie like rugs about.
compatability. I had two "guaranteed fit" chokes that differed in length (at the same ambient temp) by 5 mm. That's way too much.

It's red (sorry!), a bit over 28,000 miles. Runs great (except for this choke problem) and looks really good. I take extremely good care of my stuff, especially when my life depends upon it. I also added a rear spoiler with brake light (from a wrecked CF MOTO clone), PIAA sports horns, and a manual radiator fan switch because thermostatically-controlled switches can fail without warning. I was looking for $1250, but I won't put it up for sale formally until I get this problem straightened out. I'm a bit of a pit bull when it comes to stuff like this.

[charlie55]

Oh, BTW, the problem isn't "stickiness" between the plunger and bore. There's nothing impeding the motion of the plunger at all. The problem is that it's moving too fast and cutting off the enrichment before the engine is ready. In medical terms, it's something like "premature enrichment interruptus".

I tried smothering the enricher in ice packs for a half hour to see if it would increase the time before cutoff. It did not, and I'm thinking that this knockoff is way out of whack. So, I'll go sell a kidney and get an OEM unit.

Will report back later on the results.

Thanks,
CB

[sc00ter]

I had 2 complete Helix motors awhile back but I gave them to my local Honda dealer when I sold my CFMoto/Qlink Commuter. You not only get shoddy mechanical build but electrical issues as a added bonus from Qlink! So the thought of swapping in a real Helix motor was not going to happen. I don't have a Helix carb to look at in person. Can you swap out to a manual choke? The first thing I swap out on most Zuma 2-strokes and other troublesome electric choke equipped carbs are electric to manual. I searched my garage and realized I gave EVERYTHING away that I had for tuning/modding when I got burned out from 2-strokes, so I don't have a spare manual choke conversion kit to send you to try. Once set-up (that can be kinda frustrating) just flipping the lever was so easy and reliable, kinda like you going manual on the cooling fan! I've seen so many Helix owners do the manual switch for the cooling fan but I've never had to mod any of mine. I might have got lucky or something. I did have the following happen though:
Corroded rim lips make swapping tires a PITA.
Corroded front caliper pistons causing dragging on the front rotor.
The above was from using both Helix's year-round and not keeping up with the cleaning.
Overall Helix build quality is excellent and I still kinda regret giving away the 2 motors I had.

[charlie55]

I did some more noodling yesterday and may have found the problem. I disconnected the wiring to the choke and let the engine run for two minutes. Reconnected, and it again died about a minute later. Then I nursed it for another minute or two until the idle was stable. On a hunch, I started fiddling with the idle fuel mixture screw (which is in an incredibly bad place on these carbs). To my surprise, a full turn in either direction made no difference in the idle speed or smoothness. My takeaway is that there must be (despite numerous cleanings) a blockage in the pilot circuit since it's evidently too lean for a not-yet-fully-warmed-up engine, but not too lean for a warm one. This circuit feeds off a pressed-in orifice on a pickup that extends into the float bowl. There's an opening higher up on the pickup that feeds the enrichment circuit. It's looking to me that the section of the pickup between the lower and upper openings is clear, and thus the enricher is getting fuel. So, the blockage would have to be between the upper opening and the fuel mixture screw. Needless to say, that part of the idle circuit is a convoluted labyrinth that's going to provide me with endless hours of cleaning fun.

So, the carb's coming off (again!) with spraying, soaking, prodding and poking to follow. As aggravating as it is, I have to admit that I secretly enjoy Sherlocking my way through mysteries like this. Keeps the mind sharp.

Will let you know as soon as I do.

[sc00ter]

I have one of those ultra sonic cleaners and will soak a carb in distilled water with a few drops of Dawn dish soap. I'll soak it on highest heat setting and flip it/ restart and keep repeating. I hate clogged passage ways on carbs! I learned to use compressed air and not wire! Had a friend use a guitar string to clear a passage on a carb and the bike no longer runs "as smooth" as it should. Keep us posted on your success!

[charlie55]

Success! Turns out that it wasn't the choke, or the jets, or the passages. A close look at the tip of the idle mixture screw showed that it was worn at an angle and slightly mushroomed (flared). It was just enough to keep the orifice mostly blocked throughout the normal range of the screw's adjustment. Hence the "has no effect on idle" condition. Put in a new screw and bam, now transitions from high to normal idle perfectly. No idea as to why the screw tip got borked as I haven't messed with that adjustment in years, but I could kick myself in the ass for missing that from the get-go.

Reassembly and final tweaking tonight, then a wash, wax, and oil change, and up for sale she goes.

Phew!

[sc00ter]

Like Mr. T would say, "I like when a plan comes together!" I don't think I'd ever figure something like that out. Nice to know you got it sorted without wasting excess time or money chasing the problem.