2 stroke vs. 4 stroke

[macgawd]

As gas prices soar, I'm once again considering buying a scooter (bailed on the idea once I moved out into the country--thought the commute might be too much). I noticed that Genuine is offering the Stella again, which I like the classic look. However, I've heard that 2-stroke Scoots are geared towards the "enthusiast", which translates: someone who doesn't mind having to take the thing apart and fix it every couple of weeks.

I don't know if there's any truth to that, but wondered how the 2-strokes stand up to the 4-strokes as far as mpg, speed, acceleration, etc.

Any thoughts?

Michael

[Leeroy Jenkins]

For what I want. IMHO, modern 4s are far better than 2 smokes.

But, one big plus on riding a 2 smoke is less bugs.

[Legend]

I recently bought a Stella and love it. Things to consider are..

Do you want to look cool while riding?
Want to be in control of your own gearing?
Want to get great MPG?

All the above are Stella Yes.Yes. and Yes.

I have about 450 miles on mine in 10 days and have not had trouble one. No oil changes, no premixing gas and you will get everyone on the planet asking you about it.

It all depends on what you want but I love mine and would not trade her for the world.

[nissanman]

Flip a coin. Each design has it's good and bad points. The larger thing to consider is your ride and what you expect from the scoot performance wise and looks wise. I went with a Rattler110 because I wanted the uniqueness of a 2 stroke larger than 50cc and I like the riding style and feel of the bike. Sure it's probably quicker off the line than a 125cc 4 stroke, but most of them are geared taller giving them an edge on top speed. Unless you modify the scooter all Genuines have the same 2 year warranty so I doubt the 2 stroke will need more frequent attention. If the 2 stroke wore out quicker why don't they only offer a 1 year warranty instead? The best idea is to get on them and see which feels right for you. Either way your decision is a win/win

[BGK]

On unmodified similar bikes the maintenance is very close. On a Stella verus a buddy, the Stella will surely require more attention, but again on an unmodified scooter it shouldn't require a tear down every few weeks (such a claim would be a great exaggeration). 4 stroke Bajaj scooters compared to a Stellas have near the same repair issues. I wouldn't think twice about a 2 stroke not lasting as long. But for most people's requirements a 125 to 150cc four stroke automatic is usually a better fit.

Comparing different scooter designs and thinking the only difference is that one is a 2 stroke and one a 4 doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd look at them from a whole vehicle perspective for comparission. Comparing a buddy and stella is like comparing apples and oranges.

As gas prices soar, I'm once again considering buying a scooter (bailed on the idea once I moved out into the country--thought the commute might be too much). I noticed that Genuine is offering the Stella again, which I like the classic look. However, I've heard that 2-stroke Scoots are geared towards the "enthusiast", which translates: someone who doesn't mind having to take the thing apart and fix it every couple of weeks.

I don't know if there's any truth to that, but wondered how the 2-strokes stand up to the 4-strokes as far as mpg, speed, acceleration, etc.

Any thoughts?

Michael

[Keys]

4-strokes will last longer with few maintainance issues, but will cost more to fix when they DO break.

2-strokes will require more maintainance, but will be cheaper do fix.

Another issue...Stellas are well known for having weak crankshafts which will break on a fairly regular basis, thereby requiring new cases. The fix is a P200 engine or an aftermarket crankshaft to begin with.

Bottom line, if you are handy, a two-stroke will deliver more punch from the same cc's. If you are NOT handy, a four-stroke will require less input from you to run the same distance.

--Keys

[DarbyWalters]

The 4 stroke will give you more grunt down low so the CVT/Engine does not rev so high at slower speeds. The 2 Stroke will give more power than a 4 stroke the same size. Usually a 2 stoke bike is lighter in weight than its comparable 4 stroke counterpart. No "oil changes" but you do need to keep 2 stroke oil in the Oil Injection Resevoir. Definitely different "sounds"...2 stroke high buzz vs a 4 stroke low thump...I like both.

With a dedicated oil system (2 strokes can also have an oil sump but most bikes do not), the 4 stroke should last longer and if it has an oil cooler, that will help with engine temps also. The 4 Stroke will probably get better mpg and burn cleaner than a 2 Stroke (they are getting better tho). There is also a MUCH BIGGER SELECTION of 4 Strokes to pick from and they are probably easier to sell in the long run.

The real thing is that no matter what you buy now, you will probably go bigger in the future if you enjoy scooting. I would try, after making a quick trade in for a bigger 4 stroke, to get the largest displacement 4 stroke you can afford (based on what you want to spend). Of course the scoot has to fit you properly.

I love 2 Strokes but 4 Strokes make more sense IMO.

[BGK]

Only on rare occasions will a crankshaft failure (on any scooter engine) require replacing the engine cases. I wouldn't say that crankshaft issues are a thing of the past, but I believe they've changed the weaker conrod bearing that was the problem during the early production.

[Kevin K]

Another issue...Stellas are well known for having weak crankshafts which will break on a fairly regular basis, thereby requiring new cases. The fix is a P200 engine or an aftermarket crankshaft to begin with.
--Keys

Based on what? ?! I know many, many Stella riders--and I'm fairly tuned into the local dealership as well--and I don't know of one crankshaft failure. Some have questioned the quality if the Indian-built bearings on the LML motors, but I know a guy who has well over 10K on his (with a DR kit and pipe, even) and it's going strong.

I'm curious as to where you got your info.
-K

[jfrost2]

Modern 4 strokes are now better and can be just as fast as a 4 stroke. The stella may need some more work done on it, but it isnt like you work on it every week, it's built with quality, so really, if you have a problem, let the dealer or a near by motorcycle shop handle it. Many small things can be fixed easily.

If you want a more modern "classic" bike, get a buddy, it can out run a stella because it is much lighter, but it still has the classic look to it. I'd go to a dealer and sit on them, see which bike you like.

[NathanielSalzman]

If I'm reading your question correctly, the issue isn't really 2T vs 4T as much as it is modern vs. classic. The maintenance demands of a Stella vs. a Buddy or a Blur is going to have more to do with the added complexity of a all the extra cables, clutches, shifters, and pedals than it will with the fact that the Stella's engine is 2T. Actually, because you're not having to do oil/filter changes, the actual engine maintenance could be less on a Stella. So long as you keep oil in the reservoir and break it in properly, the 2T engine ought to be reliable as a clock. Sure, you might need to keep a spare spark plug with you, but chances are it's a broken clutch cable that will put you on the side of the road, not an engine failure. Both the Stella and the Buddy/Blur are carbureted and so you've got equal chances of something gumming up your jets.

The biggest difference between say a Stella and a Buddy/Blur is going to be how they handle, how comfortable you are in your seating position, how well they brake, and how much mental attention you have to pay to the scooter itself while riding. I started on a Vespa P200E (essentially a Stella without the electric start or front disk brake) and have since upgraded to a Genuine Blur because all the extra attention I had to pay to the Vespa while riding. On a shifter bike you've got to be ever aware of what gear your in, of the engine RPMs, and because you're on 10" wheels you've got to scan the road pretty vigorously for potholes and other road hazards. All of that before you even start thinking about traffic. And I don't mean to turn you off to riding a shifter bike - it's a blast. Just keep in mind that a certain amount of your attention is always devoted to the machine itself in a way that you don't deal with on a CVT scooter like a Buddy or Blur. There's also a little more involved in stopping and starting at intersections or when you're just braking in general. It's not rocket science, but it is more complicated to run the rear brake with your right foot, all while braking the front wheel with your right hand and clutching/choosing gears with your left hand. It's a ton of fun, but for me anyway, I really enjoy being able to just hop on my Blur, fire it up, and take off. Having under-seat storage is also a major plus. By the time you've got spare oil, spare cables, and various tools in the glove box of a Vespa or Stella, there's little room for much else.

So it seems to me that the real question you ought to ask yourself is what kind of riding do you really want to do? Do you want to be heavily involved with the machine and tap into that very classic style of scooter riding where you are one with the machine and tuned in to its every noise and wiggle? Then a Stella is a great way to go. But if you're just looking to get around in a fun and efficient way, or want to forget about the scooter itself and just enjoy the ride, I highly recommend a Buddy or a Blur. The looks on the Blur are certainly not everybody's cup of tea, but the way it rides and especially the way it stops are just amazing. If I'm honest with myself, I bought the Vespa because I loved the notion of it and loved being seen on a great old scooter. But the reality is that I love riding the Blur or even my wife's Buddy so much more because of the pure simplicity of it. My $0.02.

[Legend]

One of the issues with a 2 stroke is that no two people agree on how to break her in. Talk to some and its "rev her alot and vary speeds alot but make sure to beat it to set the seals" for others its "keep it nice and slow and vary speeds often. baby it for 1000 miles"

I really don't think that a 2 stroke is any more maintance than a 4 stroke. There are def. alot more people who can work on them. My neighbor has several dirt bikes and knows all about the 2 stroke and I have to imagine that there are alot more dirt bike owners around than scooter owners.

shifting depends on experience. When I am riding, I am not thinking of changing gears, braking, avoiding potholes or any of that stuff. I am riding and all the rest just comes naturally. I disagree that your attention is geared more towards the bike. There is a short learning curve of course, but once you have the basics down in a few rides, you can enjoy the view just like those on a 4 stroke.

[toddrw2251]

Let’s not forget emissions. 4 strokes are cleaner running engines than 2 strokes.

[Keys]

I'm curious as to where you got your info.

Stellaspeed is one place. Many mechanic friends is another. Many riders who have experienced this problem (including at least 3 in our club) is the third. That's enough anecdotal evidence for me...

--Keys

[FA-Q]

Two strokes make sense as a 50cc. A 50cc 4T is dead slow. 125cc and up I would stick to a four stroke.

[illnoise]

This thread has a lot of misinformation and "common knowledge" that's not as clear-cut as it used to be. With today's technology, there are reasonably "clean" two-stroke engines, and 4-strokes with far more power than an equivalent 2-stroke of the past. It's like arguing "should I buy a V-twin or an inline-four?" They both have engineering merits, and emotional baggage, and the design, quality, and technology of the hundreds of specific examples are so different that it's not a clear-cut question. Plus, it's just one of a thousand things to consider when buying a bike.

"Should I buy a Buddy or a Stella" is a more specific question. I think most people would agree, if you're new to scootering and want a bulletproof, reliable, low-maintenance bike that's easy to ride and features modern conveniences, you want the Buddy. If you can afford some potential inconveniences and a bit of a learning curve for the sake of style and historical credibility (and, let's be honest, attention), go for the Stella.

As far as breaking cranks, I've heard/seen that too, but different batches of Stellas were different. The last few batches were made in the midst of a labor dispute that closed down the factory for more than a year, and that's hopefully ironed out and scooterworks has enough clout and liability that I think it's safe to assume they've addressed any real safety/quality issues, though who knows what other problems might crop up.

Both are new and come with a warranty, so even though there's a small risk of bodily harm and/or inconvenience with the Stella, it's not like you're buying a 30-year-old mystery bike, they're solid and the new batch looks a little nicer than the end of the last batch, on the surface anyway. In any case, if a problem comes up, Genuine and their dealers are good folks, and they'll make it right. They don't want their bikes to fall apart any more than you do, which sounds obvious, but there are plenty of scooter companies and dealers that could care less what happens after they make a sale.


B.

[BGK]

I'm curious as to where you got your info.

Stellaspeed is one place. Many mechanic friends is another. Many riders who have experienced this problem (including at least 3 in our club) is the third. That's enough anecdotal evidence for me...

--Keys

At a shop that's sold just about as many stellas as anyone, there is only one set of trashed cases in the parts bin. But I don't think it was due to a big end failure. It has happened a few times, but it's not the norm. And if people go tuning a bike for more power than it was designed for, that had known limitations on a specific part without upgrading it, then I'd blame the mechanic before the engine.

[illnoise]

Good point, Brooke. A bike's reliability decreases the more you mess with it. (Ironically, it also decreases the more you ignore it.) The trick is to ride it every day and maintain it properly without trying to outsmart it.

Bb.