Hi all - I'm seeking some opinions. I am a new rider as of about a month ago. I've mostly been limiting myself to a 2-3 mile radius around my neighborhood. Smallish streets, max 40mph speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, 2 lane roads (a few roads have 4 lanes). I am signed up for the MSF the weekend of July 18th and was planning to hold off on exploring any further outside my 'hood until the MSF is completed. I am not yet cocky on my scoot - annoyingly careful in fact. BUT now I'm getting really bored with my routes and I don't feel like I'm getting a ton of practice/experience under my belt. I've thought about routes to work (just 4 miles from me) and most roads will be about the same size as what I've been cruising - just 2 more roads with 4 lanes. I really want to start scooting there and to other places aside from where I've been consistently going. I am planning on avoiding major traffic for all of my new routes. I just feel like I really need to get more riding under my belt, but I don't want to be "that newbie" who is doing stuff she should not be doing.
So I ask - do you think it is reasonable for me to venture out a little further away and take slightly longer rides before I complete the MSF course or should I suck it up and wait? I realize you don't know me personally and while this is all kinda vague, I was wondering if some peeps could weigh in. BOTTOM LINE QUESTION = Keep scooting the same routes in my area/wait until I complete the MSF or venture out just a little more (and be totally realistic about my skills..avoid larger roads, etc) before the MSF course? Thanks in advance everyone!
Wait to complete MSF or explore just a little more?
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scoots4me
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Wait to complete MSF or explore just a little more?
*** scootie scoot scoot ***
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Ronin
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I guess I can look at this from two different perspectives, so I'll throw them out there.
Situation #1: If you feel comfortable riding the routes that you have and you believe that the route that you take to work will be the same speeds, same amount of traffic, etc, then I would think, give it a shot! That being said, I think that there are a few things to keep in mind as well (although you may have already kept these in mind). If you decide to go for it, you may wish to first give it a try on the slowest day of the week (generally Sundays, but you know your area much much better than I do!). This will allow you to feel a bit more comfortable and also let you be able to spot any "trouble spots" along the way.
Situation #2: Continue to stay the course with the current method of transportation that you use, but along the way to work try to look for the same things that you would as if you were driving on the scoot (only decent bumps in the road, the manhole covers, larger potholes, small children roaming the streets as their parents stay inside playing video games while drinking a case of beer and snacking on Funyons, etc)
This will help you prepare for the upcoming real life situation of scooting to work!
If you decide to drive to work, you may run into the unexpected rainstorm (if you get rain in your area), therefore if you are uncomfortable driving in the rain, you may wish to take that into consideration as well!
I'm not certain if you currently have a permit or license to drive, but I don't know how far you wish to go if you think the police might pull you over for any reason (if you don't have either a permit or license).
Sorry for the long post and I hope that I'm not coming off patronizing or anything. Not really meaning to if I am!! Just let my stream of thought flow and see where it took me on this one!
Situation #1: If you feel comfortable riding the routes that you have and you believe that the route that you take to work will be the same speeds, same amount of traffic, etc, then I would think, give it a shot! That being said, I think that there are a few things to keep in mind as well (although you may have already kept these in mind). If you decide to go for it, you may wish to first give it a try on the slowest day of the week (generally Sundays, but you know your area much much better than I do!). This will allow you to feel a bit more comfortable and also let you be able to spot any "trouble spots" along the way.
Situation #2: Continue to stay the course with the current method of transportation that you use, but along the way to work try to look for the same things that you would as if you were driving on the scoot (only decent bumps in the road, the manhole covers, larger potholes, small children roaming the streets as their parents stay inside playing video games while drinking a case of beer and snacking on Funyons, etc)
This will help you prepare for the upcoming real life situation of scooting to work!
If you decide to drive to work, you may run into the unexpected rainstorm (if you get rain in your area), therefore if you are uncomfortable driving in the rain, you may wish to take that into consideration as well!
I'm not certain if you currently have a permit or license to drive, but I don't know how far you wish to go if you think the police might pull you over for any reason (if you don't have either a permit or license).
Sorry for the long post and I hope that I'm not coming off patronizing or anything. Not really meaning to if I am!! Just let my stream of thought flow and see where it took me on this one!
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scoots4me
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Ronin - super helpful - this is the kind of brainstorming I do so I get it. You're not patronizing at all. Re: your questions...
1: I don't want to ride in the rain but it is always a possibility. I'm checking the weather and I'll cage it if rain looks like it's coming. I can always stay late at work and wait for rain to pass too - southern storms are often quick (but yes, I'd need to be careful of wet pavement for sure).
2: I have my motorcycle permit which in GA allows me to cruise around as long as it is daytime and I have no passengers (oh yeah and no highway riding as if I'm ever going to do that). I'm registered and all insured so I'm good if I get pulled over aside from maybe needing fresh pants b/c getting pulled over scares the pee right outta me.
3: yep, been scouring the route looking at possible scary scoot scenarios. So far all I've come up with is a large hill I'd need to go down (and then up I guess). Thanks for this suggestion - now I don't feel crazy! I DO need to watch out for those kids with drunken/funyon eating parents though
[/i]
1: I don't want to ride in the rain but it is always a possibility. I'm checking the weather and I'll cage it if rain looks like it's coming. I can always stay late at work and wait for rain to pass too - southern storms are often quick (but yes, I'd need to be careful of wet pavement for sure).
2: I have my motorcycle permit which in GA allows me to cruise around as long as it is daytime and I have no passengers (oh yeah and no highway riding as if I'm ever going to do that). I'm registered and all insured so I'm good if I get pulled over aside from maybe needing fresh pants b/c getting pulled over scares the pee right outta me.
3: yep, been scouring the route looking at possible scary scoot scenarios. So far all I've come up with is a large hill I'd need to go down (and then up I guess). Thanks for this suggestion - now I don't feel crazy! I DO need to watch out for those kids with drunken/funyon eating parents though
[/i]*** scootie scoot scoot ***
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ericalm
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How long until you take the MSF course?
Riding laps around streets on a Buddy is very easy. What's not as easy is learning to swerve to avoid something, doing hard stops, correcting yourself while in a turn and other tasks that are needed quite often once you start riding on bigger streets and in traffic. There are also some more fundamental things that you can get away without knowing when you're doing practice laps, but which are essential when riding in "real world" conditions: looking through a turn, SEE (search, evaluate, execute) and the different zones you need to be watching to anticipate problems ahead of you. These are many of the things that MSF helps prepare you for, but that you probably won't pick up riding on your own.
What we've learned from the many new owners and riders who've crashed is that they either took a turn too fast, hit unexpected conditions (sand/gravel in the road, etc.) or entered into a situation they did not have the knowledge or experience to handle.
Does this mean you shouldn't venture out farther? Well... I don't know...
One thing that may relieve some of the repetition of your current circuit would be to get a book like Proficient Motorcycling (David Hough) and read, then practice some of the exercises in there.
Riding laps around streets on a Buddy is very easy. What's not as easy is learning to swerve to avoid something, doing hard stops, correcting yourself while in a turn and other tasks that are needed quite often once you start riding on bigger streets and in traffic. There are also some more fundamental things that you can get away without knowing when you're doing practice laps, but which are essential when riding in "real world" conditions: looking through a turn, SEE (search, evaluate, execute) and the different zones you need to be watching to anticipate problems ahead of you. These are many of the things that MSF helps prepare you for, but that you probably won't pick up riding on your own.
What we've learned from the many new owners and riders who've crashed is that they either took a turn too fast, hit unexpected conditions (sand/gravel in the road, etc.) or entered into a situation they did not have the knowledge or experience to handle.
Does this mean you shouldn't venture out farther? Well... I don't know...
One thing that may relieve some of the repetition of your current circuit would be to get a book like Proficient Motorcycling (David Hough) and read, then practice some of the exercises in there.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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ryder1
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Intersections
The majority of car-motorcycle crashes happen at intersections. Typically, a car turns left in front of a moving motorcycle, violating its right of way and cutting off its path of travel. The motorcycle then either crashes into the car, or crashes trying to avoid the car.
Riders must never assume that they have been seen, and should approach each intersection with great care. Choose a lane position that makes you most visible to any cars waiting to turn. Be aware of any drivers behind you who may not have time to stop if you have to brake suddenly. When approaching intersections, slow down, and cover your brakes and clutch. Avoid flashing your high beam, and make sure your turn signals aren’t blinking—this can send other drivers the wrong message. Consider a short beep of your horn and try to make eye contact.
The majority of car-motorcycle crashes happen at intersections. Typically, a car turns left in front of a moving motorcycle, violating its right of way and cutting off its path of travel. The motorcycle then either crashes into the car, or crashes trying to avoid the car.
Riders must never assume that they have been seen, and should approach each intersection with great care. Choose a lane position that makes you most visible to any cars waiting to turn. Be aware of any drivers behind you who may not have time to stop if you have to brake suddenly. When approaching intersections, slow down, and cover your brakes and clutch. Avoid flashing your high beam, and make sure your turn signals aren’t blinking—this can send other drivers the wrong message. Consider a short beep of your horn and try to make eye contact.
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anndelise
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Motorcycle Safety Foundation has some exercises you can download and print for free: http://www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?sp ... me=Library
See "You and Your Scooter: Riding Tips" and "You and Your Motorcycle: Riding Tips". Towards the end of each, there'll be quite a number of pages filled with exerices that you can take some cones out to a parking lot and practice with.
Other than that, I dunno..ride at your skill level. Of course that doesn't mean that those around you will cater to your skill level.
For myself, I rode around the community I live in. I'm lucky in that there's a lot of hills steep and not, and lots of curves. But I can only go max 20mph in it. Because of where the community is located, the only other option is hitting the 50mph road that leads away from the community in either direction. (But I did find a 35mph very curvy road fairly close by to practice on.)
For me, it depends on how much risk I'm willing to take.
(apparently I'm not a huge risk taker as tomorrow I'm trading in my two week old Buddy50 for a Buddy125 because that 50mph road scares the beejeezus out of me..just thinking about being on it and unable to do more than 30-40 depending on the hills. (I thought derestricting would improve my chances, but nope!!)
Oh, and if do you venture out, don't hesitate to safely pull over and catch your breath or recover your scrambled brain after an unfamiliar or uncomfy episode. Let Pride Goeth BEFORE a Fall.
See "You and Your Scooter: Riding Tips" and "You and Your Motorcycle: Riding Tips". Towards the end of each, there'll be quite a number of pages filled with exerices that you can take some cones out to a parking lot and practice with.
Other than that, I dunno..ride at your skill level. Of course that doesn't mean that those around you will cater to your skill level.
For myself, I rode around the community I live in. I'm lucky in that there's a lot of hills steep and not, and lots of curves. But I can only go max 20mph in it. Because of where the community is located, the only other option is hitting the 50mph road that leads away from the community in either direction. (But I did find a 35mph very curvy road fairly close by to practice on.)
For me, it depends on how much risk I'm willing to take.
(apparently I'm not a huge risk taker as tomorrow I'm trading in my two week old Buddy50 for a Buddy125 because that 50mph road scares the beejeezus out of me..just thinking about being on it and unable to do more than 30-40 depending on the hills. (I thought derestricting would improve my chances, but nope!!)
Oh, and if do you venture out, don't hesitate to safely pull over and catch your breath or recover your scrambled brain after an unfamiliar or uncomfy episode. Let Pride Goeth BEFORE a Fall.
The scootering section of my blog: http://anndelise.wordpress.com/category/scootering/
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Campbell990
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7eregrine
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Piedmont
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I say you spend a weekend working on the exercises in the back of the scooter manual anndelise linked to. Those exercises are the biggies that the BRC covers. Have someone watch you, if you don't have a SO willing to do it, ply a friend with pizza and beer to spend 3-4 hours watching your technique. Even if they don't have riding experience they'll be able to see things that you won't. Not as ideal as a trained riding coach, but a definite step up from doing it on your own, and a whole world better than just riding around the neighborhood. After that, then I would ride to work. But that's just me.
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bfreed
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I second the suggestions for both the "Proficient Motorcycling" book and the MSF scooter book linked to above.
I heard about the P.M. book on this forum, ordered it and I've been working my way through it for 2 weeks now. Definitely worth it. And he does have a couple suggested things to try.
Downloaded the MSF booklet yesterday - will try those exercises when I have a chance.
I don't want to advise you to do anything uncomfortable, so I'll leave the final call up to you. But I'll tell you what I've done, if it helps.
I'm not scheduled for the MSF course - have to use the provided motorcycles, etc. (yeah, I know - please don't judge.) My plan is to take the license test (noon on July 9th) and then I'm planning to enroll in the Experienced Rider Course at some point - a license is required to enroll. It covers a lot of the same drills and skills, but on your own bike.
In the meantime, my commute to work is 5 miles each way. I've adjusted my schedule at the office so that I leave my house as soon as it's light out - ~5:30am or so. And I leave the office a tad early, ~4:30pm.
I'm pretty fortunate in that the local MSF course is located about 2 miles from my house, and our course has lines permanently painted on the ground. It's not "on the way" to work by the shortest route, but I make it be on the way - adds about a mile.
My morning routine for the past 2-3 weeks:
5:30ish - leave the house, head for the MSF course. Nobody else is awake yet - I see 5-6 other vehicles.
I spend about 20-30 minutes on the course.
I work on low-speed figure 8's, then I work on cornering by riding around the painted ovals, then I run through the swerving painted lanes.
Some days I'm pressed for time and I skip a drill or two. One I ALWAYS finish with is quick stops. And you don't need painted lines for that one - just empty asphalt with no possibility of other traffic.
FWIW, the Figure 8 box is a bit larger than 4 parking stalls put together.
The scooter booklet linked to above has diagrams for how to simulate a lot of similar drills using normal parking stalls if you don't have a permanent MSF course near you.
As I've gained confidence, I've added different routes to/from work, based on time of day/traffic/weather.
Yesterday I took a ride on a busy commercial stretch I wouldn't have gone near 3 weeks ago. But I've "received" lots of "free" practice for cars pulling out between the office and home.
So that's my story. Everyone's story will be different in some respects. My 2 cents - just do it. But continue to be aware of your limits - don't hit the busiest stretch in town at rush hour on a heavily overcast day on your first day out. And wear a helmet, gloves, boots, etc.
I heard about the P.M. book on this forum, ordered it and I've been working my way through it for 2 weeks now. Definitely worth it. And he does have a couple suggested things to try.
Downloaded the MSF booklet yesterday - will try those exercises when I have a chance.
I don't want to advise you to do anything uncomfortable, so I'll leave the final call up to you. But I'll tell you what I've done, if it helps.
I'm not scheduled for the MSF course - have to use the provided motorcycles, etc. (yeah, I know - please don't judge.) My plan is to take the license test (noon on July 9th) and then I'm planning to enroll in the Experienced Rider Course at some point - a license is required to enroll. It covers a lot of the same drills and skills, but on your own bike.
In the meantime, my commute to work is 5 miles each way. I've adjusted my schedule at the office so that I leave my house as soon as it's light out - ~5:30am or so. And I leave the office a tad early, ~4:30pm.
I'm pretty fortunate in that the local MSF course is located about 2 miles from my house, and our course has lines permanently painted on the ground. It's not "on the way" to work by the shortest route, but I make it be on the way - adds about a mile.
My morning routine for the past 2-3 weeks:
5:30ish - leave the house, head for the MSF course. Nobody else is awake yet - I see 5-6 other vehicles.
I spend about 20-30 minutes on the course.
I work on low-speed figure 8's, then I work on cornering by riding around the painted ovals, then I run through the swerving painted lanes.
Some days I'm pressed for time and I skip a drill or two. One I ALWAYS finish with is quick stops. And you don't need painted lines for that one - just empty asphalt with no possibility of other traffic.
FWIW, the Figure 8 box is a bit larger than 4 parking stalls put together.
The scooter booklet linked to above has diagrams for how to simulate a lot of similar drills using normal parking stalls if you don't have a permanent MSF course near you.
As I've gained confidence, I've added different routes to/from work, based on time of day/traffic/weather.
Yesterday I took a ride on a busy commercial stretch I wouldn't have gone near 3 weeks ago. But I've "received" lots of "free" practice for cars pulling out between the office and home.
So that's my story. Everyone's story will be different in some respects. My 2 cents - just do it. But continue to be aware of your limits - don't hit the busiest stretch in town at rush hour on a heavily overcast day on your first day out. And wear a helmet, gloves, boots, etc.
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charltons
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i agree wth most everybody's opinion. I rode mine to work- 30 miles round trip- several weeks before my MSF. recon the route, proficient motorcycling (great book helps a lot), and try the route early weekend mornings. I did all these before my MSF course. Just don't get distracted or crazy and you should be ok.
" You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought " - Leia
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Howardr
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ericalm
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I saw a group taking the MSF in 110 degree heat in Indio, CA. Insane.Howardr wrote:I'm still waiting for our MSF course. Unfortunately the next course isn't untill September. (Presumably because of the heat here in Tucson) I've been riding everyday. There's no way I could wait that long. I am looking forward to it, however.
Howard
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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bunny
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Out here in TX, they split the weekend courses so you don't spend so much time in the heat. And they provide bottled water for the outside parts of the course.
Fri: 6:30p - 9:30p
Sat 7:00a - 4:30p
Sun 7:00a - 12:30p
So much for my 4th of July weekend.
BUT, I will be halfway to the M license!
Fri: 6:30p - 9:30p
Sat 7:00a - 4:30p
Sun 7:00a - 12:30p
So much for my 4th of July weekend.
BUT, I will be halfway to the M license!
Yes, it's fast. No, you can't ride it.
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groovedirk
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I took the MSF class (privately run, not the State one) in Chicago the end of last summer and it was around 90-95 in full gear. It was HELL. We stopped about every 20 mins for water breaks so people didn't pass out. On the last day I was so exhausted I backed my car into a pole and took out my back brake light...OOPS.
--Dirk--
--Dirk--
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charltons
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scoots4me
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Wow! Sorry to never reply - I've been so crazy busy these days. 
Ok so last week I took a test drive after traffic died down one night after work. I scouted a great route that let me avoid every road I was scared /weary of. Therefore all roads to work would be smaller, residential roads just like the ones around my area of town and with the addition of some bike lanes. My ride to and from the office went very well aside from my random "oh crap i never worried about the parking garage" thought when i arrived. Parking garage was fine - I parked as soon as possible and near an exit so that I would not have to circle around and risk getting hit.
the next day i left super early again to avoid traffic and i scooted to work! i definitely found some things i felt not as secure about (like approaching a tight, right turn with sand i never noticed on my car) but all of those things were noticed early and i was able to get past each one ok since i had mental prep time.
i won't be scooting every day for right now but i may scoot to work again on friday - do it once a week or so. i only have a few more weeks until the course so i'm not feeling so antsy anymore.
final note you might enjoy: on my way home from work friday, i hit the area where i've been scooting around in since i got the ol' buddy. i came over a larger hill in the road and exclaimed "woo hooo!!!!" which was very giddy and very girly and very loud sounding inside my helmet.
OK...NOW...back to me being super careful and attentive....
Ok so last week I took a test drive after traffic died down one night after work. I scouted a great route that let me avoid every road I was scared /weary of. Therefore all roads to work would be smaller, residential roads just like the ones around my area of town and with the addition of some bike lanes. My ride to and from the office went very well aside from my random "oh crap i never worried about the parking garage" thought when i arrived. Parking garage was fine - I parked as soon as possible and near an exit so that I would not have to circle around and risk getting hit.the next day i left super early again to avoid traffic and i scooted to work! i definitely found some things i felt not as secure about (like approaching a tight, right turn with sand i never noticed on my car) but all of those things were noticed early and i was able to get past each one ok since i had mental prep time.
i won't be scooting every day for right now but i may scoot to work again on friday - do it once a week or so. i only have a few more weeks until the course so i'm not feeling so antsy anymore.
final note you might enjoy: on my way home from work friday, i hit the area where i've been scooting around in since i got the ol' buddy. i came over a larger hill in the road and exclaimed "woo hooo!!!!" which was very giddy and very girly and very loud sounding inside my helmet.
OK...NOW...back to me being super careful and attentive....*** scootie scoot scoot ***
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7eregrine
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hahaha! Nice! I do that to sometimes. Hopefully not as girly sounding.scoots4me wrote:
final note you might enjoy: on my way home from work friday, i hit the area where i've been scooting around in since i got the ol' buddy. i came over a larger hill in the road and exclaimed "woo hooo!!!!" which was very giddy and very girly and very loud sounding inside my helmet.