70cc kits for the Buddy 50

scootboy66 · Post by **scootboy66** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:46 pm

I put a 70cc cylinder kit on my Buddy and Love it! It gave it more pick up right off the line and 10 more on the top end! Love it.

rablack · Post by **rablack** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:38 pm

How's the gas mileage with the 70cc kit?

I run my 50 flat out much of the time and have been getting only around 75mph.

P.S. where did you get your kit and how much did it cost? Any rejetting or new exhaust required?

RisingSunset · Post by **RisingSunset** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:16 am

Do you drive on any steep inclines? I live in CO and have a 50. There are some hills in which I can only go 15-20 mph. Do you think it will be worthwhile for me to get a 70cc kit?

scootboy66 · Post by **scootboy66** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:44 pm

Overall there is a bit of drop in gas mileage, not much though. I purchased it through the dealer, Scooterworks. So I am quite pleased with it. As far as the inclines or steep hills, there are not many here. So I would really have to test it in a parking garage. I did ask the guy at the shop he said I would notice a difference.

RisingSunset · Post by **RisingSunset** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:49 pm

Thanks

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:10 am

scootboy66 wrote:I put a 70cc cylinder kit on my Buddy and Love it! It gave it more pick up right off the line and 10 more on the top end! Love it.

Did you also upgrade your belts, rollers or anything else? I know some other upgrades are usually suggested when installing the cylinder kit.

Also, did you do the install yourself? How did that go?

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:58 pm

Here's my take on cylinder head kits...

I rode my Aprilia 50 for a year before making any mods. Then I added a Touring exhaust and finally, a few months later, a 65cc kit that also upgraded belts, etc. The exhaust made a big difference and the new cylinder head made an even bigger difference. I now had a scooter that looked like a 50 but performed almost like a 125. Total cost of the mods was close to $700. Everything was peachy except my gas mileage, which plummeted from about 70 mpg to around 53 mpg.

Before I added the new cylinder head, I test rode a bunch of 150 and larger scooters. If the Buddy 125 was available at this time, I would've sold or traded my Aprilia for it. At the time though, nothing knocked my socks off so I went with the mods. In hindsight, it wasn't worth it (mainly because of reliability issues) and I wound up wasting a few hundred dollars.

You make compromises to ride scooters. You make additional compromises to ride scooters that are under 200cc's. If you're considering a cylinder head kit, try to ride a modified bike before you buy the kit. Then take a few rides on 125's and 150's and make an informed decision. There's no right or wrong decision for everyone, just base your choice on the way you ride and consider the compromises you're willing to make.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:23 pm

There's definitely a point of diminishing returns when upgrading a 50cc. This is less true for the 125s, which don't have a bigger-engine counterpart. Is it worth it? There are a lot of varied opinions on this. But considering the only differences between a Buddy 50 and 125 are the engine, I'd guess that swapping will often be a better deal in terms of dollars spent, reliability and safety. I'm sure Scooterworks is selling good kits. But you're giving up the 2-year warranty on your engine in exchange for performance that's still less than what the 125 would offer.

Sailn · Post by **Sailn** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:46 pm

Actully the 50 and the 125 have differnt forks, wheels and disc brakes as well...

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:08 pm

Sailn wrote:Actully the 50 and the 125 have differnt forks, wheels and disc brakes as well...

Even more reason to swap instead of kitting, maybe?
Are the stock parts on the 50 really meant to handle that much more speed & power? This is why I had asked about upgrading other parts as well...

I have nothing against upgrades (and will probably be upgrading my Vespa to keep up with the Buddy

), but I think results from cylinder kits often don't meet people's inflated expectations and want them to be aware of other possible problems and concerns when installing one.

Sailn · Post by **Sailn** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:39 pm

That is true. When I used to play around with sports cars, the first thing was always suspension, quickly followed by brakes. There was no point in goinf fast if you could only go straight and hit a tree because you couldn't stop. I think it is a bit different with a scooter. The brakes on the 50 seem very good, and the suspension isn't bad. As I have said before, I wish the fork was stiffer, but that is mostly due to the bad streets I ride on.

At first I was wholly against doing a 70 cc upgrade. I have changed my mind. I will do the upgrade, not because I want to go much faster, 5-10 mph would be fine, but becuase the entra power will help my fat ass go up hills without a loss in speed. If riding in traffic at 35 and going up a hill, I would like to maintain 35. Also, some indoor parking lots in town have very steep entrance ramps, I have a bit of concern getting up them.

RisingSunset · Post by **RisingSunset** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:01 am

I upgraded from 50 to 70. I have only put about 10 miles on it, so this is very early.... I don't know a whole lot about engines but here's what I've noticed thus far:
- lower sound
- doesn't feel as smooth at lower speeds (but feels better above 40)
- wants to pop a wheelie

- harder to start (have to give it some gas)
- still has some trouble going up steep hills. For example, going up this particular hill on the 50 I could get to about 25 mph and now I can get to about 32 (in 35 mph zone)

Kevin K · Post by **Kevin K** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:29 pm

One reason that people might not want to switch to a 125 is because they may not have a motorcycle endorsement. Here in Minnesota you don't need an endorsement to ride a 50. Anything bigger than that requires it.
-K

Bryce-O-Rama · Post by **Bryce-O-Rama** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:18 am

Kevin K wrote:One reason that people might not want to switch to a 125 is because they may not have a motorcycle endorsement. Here in Minnesota you don't need an endorsement to ride a 50. Anything bigger than that requires it.

If your state requires insurance, taxes, tags, etc. for over 50cc scoots, then I can understand not getting something bigger. However, it's almost a joke to get a motorcycle license that I don't think that should prevent anyone from getting something bigger. In Kansas you have a written test that allows you to ride under a restricted learner's permit for a year before taking the skills test. The skills test consists of a slow speed balancing test, weaving through a few cones, making a U-turn, and then stopping at a line. On a Goldwing it might be a bit of work, but on a Buddy, it would be a joke and a half. I've not heard of tests that are really any harder in any other states. And generally if you take the MSF course (which you should do no matter what you ride) you typically aren't required to take the skills test to get your motorcycle endorsement.

Though some people consider getting licensed a barrier, it really isn't.

shovde · Post by **shovde** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:17 pm

I'm considering buying a Buddy for my wife this next spring and I'm considering the 50, since she wouldn't have to get her license. Now let's just say I bought the 50, which is restricted to 30mph and does not require a motorcycle endorsement. If I derestrict it and she is pulled over by a police officer doing 40mph, is she in trouble? Also, what is the benefit of licensing the Buddy as a moped versus a motorcycle? (In Minnesota) Do I still need insurance?

After having a 150cc and 460cc scooter, I think it would be fun to have a 2-stroke 50cc machine. Just from a purely minimalist perspective. I find my ET4 much more of an adventure than my BV500, which is so easy to ride, it's almost boring. The ET4 is never boring. I would guess that getting from point A to point B on a 50cc scoot becomes even more interesting. After driving a scoot that can go 100mph all summer, I've lost the "I wish I had more power/speed" syndrome.

Shane

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:48 pm

Hey, y'all. Please let me know if I'm being an annoying n00b by bumping up this thread. I've searched pretty thoroughly, and this is pretty much the only discussion I've seen of the 50cc vs 125cc Buddy.

Basically, I am on a pretty tight budget (student loans! augh!), so I was looking at the 50cc. From reading pretty much all of the first 5 pages of this forum

, I see that most of y'all have the 125. I'm not trying to go for speed, and I live in the heart of downtown Philly, where most of the speed limits are 25mph. I would be using my future Pinky Tuscadero for commuting 5 miles to work, running quick errands around Center City, and maybe if I'm feeling randy, a trek out to West Philly (ooo, 10 miles!

).

However, I'm pretty fat. Okeh, I'm obese.

I assume that will play a part on the performance of my scooter?

Also, I don't have a PA license...my TX one is still valid. How much of a pain in the @$$ would it be to get my PA motorcycle license?

(I was planning on taking the safety course regardless of which Buddy I get.)

Once again, THANK YOU in advance for all the swell advice.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:22 pm

polianarchy wrote:Basically, I am on a pretty tight budget (student loans! augh!), so I was looking at the 50cc. From reading pretty much all of the first 5 pages of this forum , I see that most of y'all have the 125. I'm not trying to go for speed, and I live in the heart of downtown Philly, where most of the speed limits are 25mph. I would be using my future Pinky Tuscadero for commuting 5 miles to work, running quick errands around Center City, and maybe if I'm feeling randy, a trek out to West Philly (ooo, 10 miles! ).

Think of it this way: that extra bit of power will open a lot of doors for you! You will notice the difference when you need a bit of extra oomph to get out of a tight spot or maintain speed while going up a hill. I would argue that the 125cc is a safer scooter because it will be able to keep up with traffic on pretty much any city road, whereas a 50cc will struggle on larger roads. And if you're like the rest of us, once you start riding, you will be looking for excuses to take ever longer trips- just ask Keys!

The main reason for 50cc scooters is that they typically don't require any sort of special license to ride. They will also require more diligence on your part, in that you must add 2-stroke oil with every fill-up. And if you have any enviromental concerns, a 4-stroke (125cc) will burn much cleaner than the 2-stroke 50cc.

I once had the bright idea of using student loans to help buy a car, so surely you can squeeze a scooter in!

xkennx · Post by **xkennx** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:28 pm

I have installed a few kits on 50cc scooters over the yrs (mostly vinos' and bobo brands) The one pictured below will actually get 65+mph but it is freaking loud. We did about $700+ worth of stuff to this $250 scooter, you really cut the reliability down but when you do get it started and running its so freaking fun to ride.

But if you need the power and speed just go ahead and get the 125 from the start. Much better for you and the scooter the be running 40mph 1/2 throttle on a 125 then 40mph full throttle on a 50. And you probly woudl get better gas mileage in the long run also.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:39 pm

I agree with VitC, go for the 125.

I had the same internal dialogue about the 50 vs 125 before I bought it, and quickly determinded that if I wanted to get my carcass up the big hill on the way home from work I was gonna need the 125. It's only 35mph limits in the 7 miles from downtown to home, but that hill is long.

Of course, in Ohio there is no license distinction between the 50 and the 125, but I got my license within a month of buying the scooter. I got my temps, took the MSF and paid the $25 for the new license with the M on it. Easy as pie (for a good time killer go to modernvespa.com and search on "pie").

So, my conclusion was that the price difference was worth it for the performance. The 50 would maybe have gotten me back and forth to work, but just barely. I am very happy I decided on the 125.

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:54 pm

Safer -- Yes, the dude at Philadelphia Scooters mentioned the issue of having that extra bit of oomph to zoom out of a tight spot.

Oil -- Uh, how is this the first I'm hearing of this?! Sheesh!

I thought that was not the case with the Buddy. That right there might be the deal-breaker between the 50 & 125. Dang.

Hills -- Virtually non-existent here in Philly, so a non-issue.

Longer treks -- Yeah, well, there's always New Jersey.

Lots of good points, and lots to think about. Thanks, kids! Anyone else care to chime in?

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:15 pm

Also, I don't have a PA license...my TX one is still valid. How much of a pain in the @$$ would it be to get my PA motorcycle license? Confused (I was planning on taking the safety course regardless of which Buddy I get.)

It shouldn't be too painful. Many states allow you to simply swap your old license for a new one, some states require a written test. Google "dmv" and then choose the PA site. You'll find all the info you need there. And, if you had a moto endorsement in Texas, it should transfer to PA. If not, you can either take the moto tests or go the MSF route. And if you plan on taking the MSF class regardless, you must have your PA license or they won't let you enroll.

As for the 50 vs. 125 debate, I'm solidly in the 125 camp. I had a highly modified, very fast 50 for years and I weigh 150. It was fine in downtown Denver but really in trouble in the suburbs. I grew up in Philly and Philly is different. If you stay downtown on surface streets a 50 should be fine. If you plan on crossing any bridges or going to the zoo; really anything that takes you out of center city, I'd strongly consider the 125. If it's your only motorized transportation, I'd only consider the 125. Minimum.

Try test riding both and see how they respond. If, as a noob, the 50 feels sluggish then you can count on it really disappointing you down the road, after you've put some miles on it. If the 50 feels wicked-fast it might be all you need. Oh, and the other big advantage of a 50 is that you can park it at a bike rack. I can get away with that on my de-badged 125 but it's not legal.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:23 pm

Oil -- Uh, how is this the first I'm hearing of this?! Sheesh!

Sorry for the extra post, this is a moving target.

Two stroke oil isn't much of an issue. I've never ridden the Buddy 50 but I assume it has automatic oil mixing. You won't be adding oil at every gas stop, rather, you'll probably need to add oil every 300 miles or so. There will be a warning light that tells you when you need to do this. You don't have to measure anything, just pour in the oil and the Buddy will do everything else for you. A liter of good 2 stroke oil is about $10 and it should take you at least 500 miles.

I never really trusted the warning light on my Aprilia, although it never let me down. I just topped off the 2 stroke oil every 300 miles.

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:58 pm

I haven't dealt with tuning scooters at all, but I've pretty much run the gamut of making cars go faster...

I will say that in the vast majority of cases in which I've either been directly inolved or to which I've been a witness, there is an inverse proportion relationship between speed and reliability.

What's the old saying? Something like:

You can only have two of the following: High speed, low cost, high quality. Pick.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:30 am

Quite a few people who buy 50cc scoots end up trading them in for a bigger engine, often pretty soon after their initial purchase. Most people think they'll only want or need to go so fast... but as soon as you start riding, you'll want to go farther, ride more than you'd anticipated, and want to do it faster.

The 125s are very easy to learn on if that's your first scoot.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:46 am

The 50cc Buddy will go about 900 to 1000 miles on one tank of oil. The tank holds about one quart. For the average scooter rider it will be around $10 per year in oil. No engine oil changes so thats a plus if you live in an apartment and park on the street. Cheaper insurance too.

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:14 pm

Dave: it's not the cost of the oil that is bothering me, it's my n00b factor in the measuring and mixing. Also, the pollution generated from the burning oil is disturbing. However, it's good to know how inexpensive that part of the maintenance is. Thanks!

ericalm: I felt pretty sure that I would wait a few years to upgrade to a larger, "fancier" scooter once I learned how to ride and maintain this first one. But after reading this forum, I'm beginning to lean towards the 125. I'm going to have (another) chat with the dude over at Phila Scooters, and that will probably decide it.

AxeYrCat: I choose low cost and high quality. How's that?

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:15 pm

gt1000 wrote:
Oil -- Uh, how is this the first I'm hearing of this?! Sheesh!
Sorry for the extra post, this is a moving target.

Two stroke oil isn't much of an issue. I've never ridden the Buddy 50 but I assume it has automatic oil mixing. You won't be adding oil at every gas stop, rather, you'll probably need to add oil every 300 miles or so. There will be a warning light that tells you when you need to do this. You don't have to measure anything, just pour in the oil and the Buddy will do everything else for you. A liter of good 2 stroke oil is about $10 and it should take you at least 500 miles.

I never really trusted the warning light on my Aprilia, although it never let me down. I just topped off the 2 stroke oil every 300 miles.

Ah, so that explains the seeming gap in my knowledge. Thanks so much for this info, gt1000, and the post above it! Yes, this certainly is a moving target, heh....

casey · Post by **casey** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:08 pm

polianarchy,

i'm another scooter newbie. i had originally intended to get the pink 50cc, thinking, much like you, that i'm just doing a little 5 mile commute to work through a no-hills downtown (houston, for me), so why would i need a 125cc? well, i ended up with the 125cc and i am very glad i did. if i'd gotten the 50cc, i'd have gotten rid of it for the bigger engine, i'm 100% sure.

during my commute, especially with the huge city metro buses around, there have been times when i've really needed that extra power for a few moments. i feel a lot safer on the 125, knowing i have that power in reserve, when needed. it has been worth the added expense.

edited because my typos are outta control.

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:09 pm

polianarchy wrote: AxeYrCat: I choose low cost and high quality. How's that?

Probably wise.

In that case, keep it stock.

x-mojito50mod · Post by **x-mojito50mod** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:34 am

I too started with a 50cc 2-stroke Mojito. I also thought it would be enough power and speed to get around...it wasn't. So, I got a 70cc kit, but that's just where it begins...once you have the kit, you need a pipe, a bigger carb, a stronger belt, a stronger crankshaft, an upgear kit, a steeper variator, different rollers, springs, and clutch to make it all work together reliably...and then you're forever tuning. In the end, I warped the stock crankshaft on the Mojito, because I had to ride it wide open everywhere, and it was just too much for it. If you can at all afford to, go with the 125 to begin with, you'll have a much more reliable, safe time. Plus, you won't smell like two stroke smoke all the time!

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:38 pm

casey, x-mo...everyone...I'm fully convinced that the 125 is the way to go. I would have placed my order this weekend, but Phila Scooters is closed on Sundays! D'oh! Hopefully, I'll be able to get it done this week so I can have my scooter by January 1st. Yay!

Thanks again for all the advice, y'all.

Modern Buddy

70cc kits for the Buddy 50

70cc kits for the Buddy 50

Re: 70cc kits for the Buddy 50