2005 Stella won't start

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:44 am

Wrinkle249 wrote:for the OP:
have you done an oil change once you were able to idle and get the bike warmed up?
No. should I?

I wouldn't worry about that right now. Just make sure it is topped off. One thing at a time. Once you get it running change out the gear oil.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:17 pm

The rebuild kit should be here between 12 and 4 today if it gets he early I will do it when it arrives.

As far as junk in the tank or a fuel line, with the choke out it gets the fuel there so it probably isn't that?

Just bought a new plug yesterday to match the one that was in the glove box. It is a champion, RN9YC gapped at .8 mm. The one that was in when I got it is an NGK, B7E S, also gapped at .8 mm. Both seem to work.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:33 pm

A couple more

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:08 pm

Ooh a pink one. Dont think they made a lot of those, Wasn't it a 1 year only?

Nice battery strap

I just replaced my piece of twisted wire with the correct part.

Be careful with the can of carb dip if you use it, I stripped the coating off my carburetor by leaving it in the can too long, It looks funky now. And yes be careful with the mix screw, If you cross-thread the screw your carburetor body is ruined.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:32 pm

Carb rebuild kit and done!

Unfortunately while I was revving the engine the glass headlamp cover giggled loose and shattered all over my garage.

Thank you BuddyRaton for persistently and firmly telling to rebuild the carb correctly. Culd not have done it without you. I have not taken it for a spin but tomorrow I will really test it out, being careful to break it in of course. Thank you double-o-soul for kindly encouraging....

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm

Wrinkle249 wrote: Unfortunately while I was revving the engine the glass headlamp cover giggled loose and shattered all over my garage.

Congrats, You have a 2005 Stella!

I lost two headlights that way, 3rd time I replaced it with the Halogen conversion.

Could be worse, When my 2nd one fell out it was in traffic and I ran over the glass, got it embedded in my tire.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am

Wrinkle249 wrote:Carb rebuild kit and done!

Unfortunately while I was revving the engine the glass headlamp cover giggled loose and shattered all over my garage.

Thank you BuddyRaton for persistently and firmly telling to rebuild the carb correctly. Culd not have done it without you. I have not taken it for a spin but tomorrow I will really test it out, being careful to break it in of course. Thank you double-o-soul for kindly encouraging....

sucks that the headlight took a dive but sweet that its running!

Rebuild kits are one of those things that I keep few of around. They're cheap enough that when ordering parts I'll have them throw one in.

Job well done!

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:54 am

Suggestions on a website to purchase the headlight glass from?

Seriously, thank you all for the help!

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:01 am

This is what I've got in both of my Stella's now.

http://www.scooterworks.com/headlamp-20 ... s-3892.php

My local dealer carries them in stock, If you've got a local Genuine dealer they may have them too.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:09 am

Maybe the last thing but I doubt it, and BuddyRaton will probably hammer me on this one and deservedly so. I had 2 extra parts (besides the gasket for the 24) from the rebuild kit. The big one is probably a fiber gasket for the top of the float bowl, I used the rubber one, which is what mine had. I am lost on the other?

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:46 am

Hey I told you to make sure the carb was in order too!

I think the extra part may be this?
http://www.scooterworks.com/packing-for ... age_id=130

btw, what do you mean by 24? I thought stock stellas are 20/20's?

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:30 am

The kit came with a gasket for the one I have and another. Thought it was a 24 but really have no idea.

Thanks for the link. I am not sure if that is the right part. It looks like a fiber gasket in the picture, and what I have is a very small, thin, washer.

And I guess I spoke to soon with the bike being good to go. It does work with the choke in and I can get it to a WOT, but I tried to ride it around and it was starting to die in second gear.

I guess I should let it warm up a bit? Damn, I thought I had this thing ready to be put back together and ridden. (my wife wants her car spot back in the garage)

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:51 am

Wrinkle249 wrote: so. I had 2 extra parts. I am lost on the other?

It's for the screw that holds the top on the float bowl.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:55 am

JohnKiniston - thanks for your help as well. I noticed you were in Tucson which is where I dragged the Stella back from last Tuesday. Rode my bigger bike up to Mt. lemmon and it was a nice 78 degrees at the top. However the 113 it hit when we were in the middle of downtown headed to the gates pass side of the freeway was the worst heat I have ever been in...

I don't know how you do it....

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:46 pm

JohnKiniston wrote:
Wrinkle249 wrote: so. I had 2 extra parts. I am lost on the other?
It's for the screw that holds the top on the float bowl.

Yep! And as for the cap gasket either one will do. I have been using the fiber ones lately due to ethanol but either one will do the job.

Often rebuild kits are a "universal" thing so you can wind up with a few extra pieces.

Now its time to change out the gear lube. After a carb rebuild this is easy peasy. The lube in there is old, gummy and has the initial run in shavings in there.

What I would do is change it, run it 100 miles or so and change it again. This will help clean off and relube the clutch plates.

Use straight 30 weight non detergent motor oil. The non detergent part is important. I generally find it at the dollar store for like 2.50 a quart.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:48 pm

double-o-soul wrote:Hey I told you to make sure the carb was in order too!

Dude...you were right there and had lots of good suggestions! It's always tough to figure things out over the interwebs but I find it kind of fun!

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:34 pm

Already have the gear oil ready. Purchased it last week and was waiting until the bike actually ran. Doing that this morning.

I will also pull the plug to see how it is running because again it started to die and couldn't get it past 2nd gear. In the garage WOT is fine, under load it is a different story. (and my nightmare because the same thing is happening to my boat)

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:41 pm

Does the idle sound change when you take it off the stand or sit on it?

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:43 pm

Does the idle sound change when you take it off the stand or sit on it?
Also, I could be wrong here but I thought the stella break in period should refrain from too much wot?

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:43 pm

Does the idle sound change when you take it off the stand or sit on it?
Also, I could be wrong here but I thought the stella break in period should refrain from too much wot?

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:49 pm

It does not seem to change.

It was just a second or so at WOT to see if it would get there. Unfortunately I know the bike was abused in the first 61 miles. It has definitely been the before.....

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:53 pm

Wrinkle249 wrote:JohnKiniston - thanks for your help as well. I noticed you were in Tucson which is where I dragged the Stella back from last Tuesday. Rode my bigger bike up to Mt. lemmon and it was a nice 78 degrees at the top. However the 113 it hit when we were in the middle of downtown headed to the gates pass side of the freeway was the worst heat I have ever been in...

I don't know how you do it....

You get used to it, Most of the time we don't have much humidity so it's OK.

Today I'm stuck working from home as it's raining too hard to ride to work

Tried to take the car in but the streets are flooded too deep for my little Honda.

Lemmon is a great ride! Once a friend and I went full Retard and rode it on our largeframes in the dark. He had no speedometer light and I had no headlight in 2nd & 3rd gear due to shorting out. It was pretty damn scary.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:12 pm

Actually sounds like fun....

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Gear oil changed.

So I let it warm up and tried to take it for a spin. First gear at first was ok. Got it to second and it boggs down then wants to shut off. Had to walk it back into the garage because it wouldn't even go in first after that.

I pulled the new plug and it is a coffee color. (which I think it good?)

About 1/4 - 1/2 throttle, not in gear, it bogs down and will sometimes get past that if I give it more throttle but sometimes continues and wants to die.

Here is a link to a video of what happens. Cuold it be flooding at that point?

Air mix screw is 1 1/2 out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FPEf74J ... ata_player

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Quick update.

I was able to get it into 4th gear this morning at about 35 mph, but it still wants to die in the mid-throttle range. AND it is smoking like crazy....

Before I took it out I put the airbox back on in hopes that it will get to stay on.

Too much smoke indicates its running to rich or there is build-up in the exhaust?

Wanting to die means it is almost flooding?

I did contact the genuine scooter company about the headlight lens and the director of communications said to bring it to a dealer and they would cover it under warranty. Would be nice if that worked out.

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:32 pm

Hmm, You could have a bad clutch side seal I suppose, That would cause it to smoke like crazy.

Drain out your gear oil and measure it see if you still have as much as you put in.

With less than 100 miles on it the exhaust shouldn't be coked up.

Wanting to die could be a lot of things.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:33 pm

Can you give us the jet sizes on the main stack from top to bottom?

In an earlier post you said the main jet main was 140/e3/94
A stock Stella generally runs a 100 main jet. Sounds like your running lean in the mid range when the main jet starts to kick in. I would order at least a 100 and 105 jet. When in doubt run it fat!

Others may disagree but I like to run fat (rich) during break in to keep the temp down

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:21 pm

Here is the main stack. If I read it right is is 140/e3/94.

I will order a 100 and 105.

What about the smoke? Could it be just the old gas burning off? Gunk in the exhaust, although is smokes when I remove the plug.

JohnKiniston · Post by **JohnKiniston** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:34 pm

94 sounds right to me for a stock bike, BuddyRaton are you thinking of Bald John Jetting? I think it used a 100 and a deblued or Euro air filter.

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:54 pm

I think it couldnt hurt to go with a more dependable bald john setup...
160 air corrector
BE3 atomiser
100 main jet (any larger would be way too rich for a stock bike)

the idle jet needs to be right as well.

I wish I could remember what a stock exhaust sounds like :-/
I have to say the throttle never sounds healthy and neither does the idle, maybe its just because the airbox cover is off and I havent heard a stock exhaust in a while...
but it sounds like the engine is choking on fuel, although the spark plug does sound like its reliably firing the fuel. I'm at a loss.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:33 am

Others probably know more about stella jetting than I do but they are always jetted lean for emissions. 94 just sounds really low to me

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:36 pm

Ordered a 100 main and a 160 air corrector. I need to take it for a long ride to see if I can burn off some old has but need to get it registered first.

It there a way to turn down the oil mix? May be a silly question, or does the larger main jet put in more gas so their will be less oil?

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:30 pm

The oil injection setup isn't adjustable.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:30 pm

Getting a 99 main jet, they were out of 100.

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Any reason you're not getting a be3 atomiser? The e3 that you have stock is way lean.
The oil to gas ratio is fixed by the autolube attached to the Carb. The thing that concerns you is the fuel/air mix. This is controlled by the jets. The mix screw then determines how much us let into the Reed valve.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:00 pm

Good questions and good catch. I called and just added it to my order...

Thanks!!

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:30 pm

Waiting on the jets that will arrive on Monday. In the mean time I tried to take it out again. Sounded good in the garage, but once I tried to put it in second it tries to die again. Lots of oil buillding up in the airbox by the air mix screw.

I drained all of the old oil and replaced it with new to see if that would help, no dice.

Lots of smoke still. I will update after I put in the new jet stack on Monday.

I read there was a ball check valve issue on the 2009s, perhaps this had the same issue. I will wait until Monday to mess with it anymore.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:49 am

double-o-soul wrote:Any reason you're not getting a be3 atomiser? The e3 that you have stock is way lean.
The oil to gas ratio is fixed by the autolube attached to the Carb. The thing that concerns you is the fuel/air mix. This is controlled by the jets. The mix screw then determines how much us let into the Reed valve.

Good call...I missed that

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:15 am

I thought I posted an update to this thread this morning with a link to a new YouTube video.

For some reaon it isn't showing up so here is the jist:
main stack is now 160/BE3/99
All new oil (drained old, and replaced it with new 2t)
New NGK plug
Rebuilt carb

It will idle without the choke, however when it gets to about 1/4 throttle it bogs and wants to dies. With the choke out it can easily get to WOT but smokes like crazy as expected. Under load (in gear) it bogs with or without choke. (I think) Air mix screw is a 1.5 turns out and idle is 3.5 out.

Because it will run fine with the choke out, I can eliminate the plug?
Because it runs fine with the choke, dumping fuel, I can eliminate the fuel line?

I just ordered the gasket for below the airbox to see if there is a air leak there, but (I may be wrong) I did not have the screw seen in step 17 here
http://www.vespamaintenance.com/fuel/ca ... index.html
I believe the main 2 carb bolts we the only thing holding it down?

Here is a quick YouTube of what I am seeing now. For some reason I used idle instead of choke when I am talking.

I know this thread is getting old, but any more help you can give me would be invaluable. (I also ordered a 102 main jet and a BE4 mixer?, just in case)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFLRfPje ... ata_player

HELP!?!?!?!?!?

The wife does not like spending any more on this scoot, so I am hoping not to bring it in somewhere.

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:37 am

Is the plug still pulling black?
Did you replace the idle jet? It does have an effect across a lot of the power band.

I don't think you can rule out electrical or timing but it sounds like its firing pretty reliably...

If I were a betting man i'd say its the clutch side seal from all the white smoke, but more generally I think there's an air leak, and all the useful things you've done are helping it run better and better but the main problem is still hidden in there somewhere.

I really think you need to figure out how to get that reed block off and make sure the reeds are seated properly, gasket is kosher and seated properly, and that the whole thing is gravy... do you notice a lot of splashback? Like does blue oil end up in the bottom of the carb or on the rear of the air filter when its attached?

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:51 am

There is oil that pools in the back of the carb by the air mix screw.

I will change the under airbox gasket as soon as it arrives and get the Rees block off if that does not fix it.

What size idle jet should I get?

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:55 am

If you're still running the 40/130 idle jet that is way lean. The recommended idle jet from bald john to accompany the main jet stack you've already assembled is 55/160 if I'm not mistaken.
I'm really hoping when you inspect the reed valve assembly and put it back on that you're problems will miraculously disappear.

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:56 am

And the plug looks good, coffee color...

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:57 am

Not to mention that the mix screw being only one and a half turns is a little screwy too. My experience has been everyones comfortably between 2 and 3...

Wrinkle249 · Post by **Wrinkle249** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:13 am

About the Reed jet stack... Me too.

Ordering a 55/160 idle jet now...

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:02 pm

When you drained the gear lube was there any fuel smell in it?

I just ordered the gasket for below the airbox to see if there is a air leak there, but (I may be wrong) I did not have the screw seen in step 17 here
http://www.vespamaintenance.com/fuel/ca ... index.html
I believe the main 2 carb bolts we the only thing holding it down?

That may be the source of your problems, but good call on checking the reeds and block (I'm a rotary and piston ported kinda guy!.

)

Also when you take the carb off place it on a flat flat surface and check to see if the base is warped

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:10 pm

Buddy, that screw is for the rotary I believe. My Stella only has the two as well, reedblock assembly fiton to the two rods that the Carb screws on to.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:13 pm

double-o-soul wrote:Buddy, that screw is for the rotary I believe. My Stella only has the two as well, reedblock assembly fiton to the two rods that the Carb screws on to.

Gottcha! Thanks

psssniper · Post by **psssniper** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:47 pm

What? another 2T in OC??

We should start a club!

double-o-soul · Post by **double-o-soul** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:08 pm

Yea you should!

First club meet:
Show wrinkle how to replace the clutch side seal and inspect the Reed valve assembly! Hahaha

Modern Buddy

2005 Stella won't start

Ball game!!

Re: Ball game!!

Re: Ball game!!

e screwy