helmets - open face versus full face, best open face models

pimaCanyon · Post by **pimaCanyon** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:40 pm

Hello Scooter Fans,

New rider here. I posted last week when trying to decide on a scooter. Now I'm trying to decide on a helmet.

I'm on the claustrophobic side AND I live in Tucson where it's HOT for several months each year, so I have pretty much decided on an open face helmet with a face shield instead of a full face helmet. I've read some reviews online of some open face designs and some have commented on how much more peripheral vision the open face design has over the full face.

What are you opinions? Full face users, what convinced you to go that route instead of open face? Open face users, what are your favorite manufacturers and models? And, do you agree that the open face design gives wider vision and better ventilation than full face? What about wind noise? I would guess the full face would be quieter? Are there good open face designs that minimize wind noise?

Does helmet color affect how hot the helmet is during hot weather? White reflects more radiant heat than dark colors, but the helmet has a lot of insulation between the shell and the riders head, so how much of that absorbed heat from a dark color will actually make it thru the insulation to the head?

Thanks for your replies!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:52 pm

I own both a full face and a 3/4. There are a number of reasons to wear full-face over anything else. Hearing protection is one. But this impact chart provides the most compelling reason.

pimaCanyon · Post by **pimaCanyon** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:36 pm

Wow, looks like in more than one third of all crashes, riders take it on the chin.

maybe I rethink the full face....

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:54 pm

Quote: "What are you opinions? Full face users, what convinced you to go that route instead of open face?"

I've been wearing full face for almost 40 years of riding, but the sight of my friend after going down on his motorcycle on pavement just made it clearer why a full face is a good idea. He flew over the handle bars and landed face first on asphalt and slid for several feet. He was unrecognizable as to who he was for several days. Luckily, he survived the accident, but he now wears a full face all the time.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:58 pm

Check out our helmet basics & buying guide:
topic4951.html

The nut is that as with most gear decisions, it comes down to how much risk you're willing to accept.

As I've become more experienced, I've also gained a greater understanding of those risks.

I started with a 3/4. I then crashed and the damage to my helmet showed me how close I was to damage to my face. I looked for a FF or modular but have fit problems so went with a better quality 3/4. Eventually, I found the right modular, a Vega Summit II. Now I'm considering getting a solid FF for my next helmet.

I'm not saying a 3/4 is wrong, just that it's important to understand how vulnerable your face and chin are. I have seen the face shield on a good-quality 3/4 ripped off in a relatively low-speed crash. The rider was lucky—she wound up with 7 stitches. Another local rider wasn't so lucky. He went face-down into Sunset Blvd. and is now dealing with physical damage and severe head trauma. His family says "he's improving." I also know a young Buddy rider who lost her front 4 teeth in a crash last summer.

There are a million stories like those… I don't think it's good to try to scare or shock riders into better gear, but those kinds of experiences are what have me rethinking my decisions.

Also consider this: From anecdotal evidence on the forums, I'd say a good number of new riders upgrade a significant portion of their gear in the first year or so.

My suggestion is to decide what type of helmet you want first based on risk (above other factors), then try to find one that suits you. If you decide on a FF or modular but then can't find the right one, you can always opt for a 3/4.

The reduction in peripheral vision isn't as drastic as many people state; it's just used as a justification for not going to a FF. There may be some depending on what models of helmet you try but as a rider, you quickly adapt to it. The biggest loss of vision is from the bottom. I have to tilt my head to see my speedometer.

Claustrophobia and heat are more difficult but can be overcome by selecting the right helmet and acclimating to it. Many modular helmets have more interior space than solid FFs. There are also designs now with carbon fiber mesh panels and other features for superior venting.

Comfort while riding is important, though, and if you're overheated and full of anxiety you won't be at 100%. You may want to ask around the local rider forums and clubs if anyone has a FF that performs very well in the heat.

There are also new convertible designs. I'm still a bit on the fence about how much protection they offer, but some look very cool at least:
Vemar CQKI (I couldn't get the XXL on my head at all!)
Nolan N43 Trilogy (I have the Nolan N42 this is based on and it's a very good helmet for a 3/4.)
Givi X.01 (Not DOT, but passes ECE. Only available as import, so expensive.)

This is somewhere between a convertible and a modular flip up:
Shark Evoline

pimaCanyon · Post by **pimaCanyon** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:15 pm

Very thorough and detailed post, Eric. Thank you. I will continue my research, but those stories and Skootz's diagram have me reconsidering the full face or modular as opposed to the 3/4 open face.

Somebody needs to design a 3/4 with a chin rod kinda like a football helmet, so you'd still have the feel of the 3/4 but your chin would be protected. Any entrepreneurs out there?

Edit: oops, I see that Nolan (and maybe the other two you posted links to, Eric) have essentially already done that!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:26 pm

Quote: "Somebody needs to design a 3/4 with a chin rod kinda like a football helmet, so you'd still have the feel of the 3/4 but your chin would be protected. Any entrepreneurs out there?"

As a young (and poor) lad, I did just that. I bolted up a football chin guard onto my open face helmet because I couldn't afford to buy a full face helmet. I rode several years on the street and dirt using that helmet.

bdarling · Post by **bdarling** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:27 pm

An excellent alternative to the 3/4 is a motocross-style helmet. I used to love my 3/4, but the risk was too great for me. I have an Arai motocross helmet that is DOT and Snell approved and it is perfect for hot summer days. I usually keep the visor on for sun protection, but it does add a lot of strain on your neck. I have been looking more at the dual-sport helmets because they can be fitted with a windscreen in lieu of goggles. Just a thought.

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:27 pm

I started with a 3/4 and loved it. After I crashed, I didn't like the loose teeth and the required stitches. When I started riding again, I replaced the damaged 3/4 with a modular and a full face.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:34 pm

I live about 25 miles south of Tucson and yes, it does get gawdawful hot here in the summer. A year ago, we had more than a month of consecutive 100° days. I've settled on a modular helmet for riding at under 40°, and a 3/4 helmet with full face shield for warmer weather. My original trooper-style 1/2 helmet is strictly for parades!

gigi · Post by **gigi** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:00 am

we don't have as many hot days as you but it DOES get hot and humid here. my experience is as follows; got a 3/4 when I bot the scooter. a Z1R that is the noiseiest helmet I've ever owned. HOT! no ventilation. Bot a Scorpion 100 series so called 1/2 helmet. has better ventilation and is quieter than Z1R but the face shield is small--actually my favorite as of now. Listened to arguments of losing face and digits and upgraded to Vemar from motorcycle superstore closeout bin. very cozy and warm for winter but ventilation seems to be its weak point. took out the breath shield and cleaned up the vents and really helped with ventilation. it's a really good quality helmet that is smaller by one size XL = lge for scorpion. took out breath shield to ride and ventilation is real good. gonna try a Scorpion full face next as I think that is the way to go and I've been very impressed by the Scorp. half helmet. I agree with the majority that we're (scooterdom in general) too pretty to ride without fullface protection or in my case it's a public service to cover it up. Listen to the folks that have been riding scooters longest. they've seen what can happen even in a slow-mo fall.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:07 am

I wear a FF helmet. I got a 3/4 with face shield and tried it, but having my head encased and my face open really messed with me. I'd rather be all enclosed or all open. I've considered a half helmet. The FF disconnects me slightly from the world, similar to being in my car. It feels like I'm watching interactive television every now and then. Of course, usually right about the time the thought of a half helmet enters my mind, some big bug ricochets off either my visor or the lower part of my helmet where my chin, mouth, or nose would be. Usually leaves me wide-eyed thinking, "Oh, yeah! That's why I went with a FF!!"

Bugs and acorns, I tell ya.
That, and watching the cheeks of some older half-helmet-wearing older motorcycle riders flap like a sail in the wind as they cruise down the highway...nah, I'm good.

Oh, yeah...and earplugs make me twitch harder than having my head enclosed. It's the lesser of two weevils. Plus, I can stick out my tongue and make faces at drivers that irritate me (keeps me in a good mood and lets me move past it quick) and, unless I'm crossing my eyes at them, they're none the wiser!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:28 am

Among the open face (3/4) helmets, I really like the Bell Mag-8.

http://www.thebellstore.com/Helmets/mag8.html

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:14 pm

good bang for the buck http://www.vegahelmet.com/ my family has one openface and one full face... no complants really other than just normal wear and its worn well full face was 70bucks and just as good as the 300 buck ones,,, iv had people look at the helment and say nice helment i look at theres and they could have bought 3 for what they paid for the one... also there riding gear is good quality at a good price,,, we each have mesh racing jackets with removable lining and pads... 70buck each... daughter has all pink,,, it looks sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:03 pm

In February, on residential streets doing no more than 20 mph, I hit a nasty patch of sand. What appears to have happened (I have no recollection from the time that I got on the scooter that day to the crash) is that I hit sand in a turn, slid, got the steering wheel turned sideways, then hit clean pavement with the front wheel sideways and pole vaulted over.

All I know is that the witness said I went face first into the curb. I usually take that turn at 20 mph, so that is the speed I am assuming I was going- I can't imagine I was going faster, and the witness doesn't think I was either.

In a full face helmet, my chin area was the impact point for my entire body, and I hit hard enogh to have a serious concussion.

As a side effect from the concussion, almost a year later, I have a constant headache and migraines that trigger nearly every day and can last for weeks, unresponsive to medication. I have been on disability for the last month and a half.

It is the consensus of my medical professionals that I would not have survived wearing anything less than a full face helmet, while riding a 50cc scooter on residential streets.

pimaCanyon · Post by **pimaCanyon** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:58 pm

man, some of these stories give me the heebee jeebees. (that's a technical term for "scares the crap out of me!") Anacronism's story is maybe the scariest because he was going so slow. (I go that fast on my BICYCLE for crying out loud. I do wear a helmet when riding the bike, but needless to say it has no chin guard.)

At any rate, I have shifted my thinking and I'm now going to get a full face or modular. Eric's links did the trick on the modulars, I'm leaning toward the Nolan N43 Trilogy.

But the one I'd really like is this one:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/schuberth-j1/

It's exactly the design I was thinking of when I mentioned a helmet with a chin bar like a football helmet. Two problems with it:
1) Seems to be sold only in Europe
2) Expensive, something like $350 British pounds which would translate to something over 400 US dollars.

Thanks to all who posted stories and other info here!

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:12 pm

I wear a FF and so does my b/f. This is his HJC Symax II modular after going down at about 15mph.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesebot/3944989842/

He replaced it with the same helmet even though insurance gave him enough to "upgrade" to a Nolan.

You don't need a Nolan or Schuberth...there are plenty of decent FFs for not a lot of dough. The HJC modular is pretty good; I personally don't wear one because I'm still not convinced on them (I know, illogical). I prefer a plain vanilla FF.

It's great that you're doing such thorough research. Try before you buy!

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:37 pm

I am an HJC fan. Full face. I have a half-helmet when it's too hot. One thing I've found is that when it gets cold or it's raining, you really appreciate a full-face helmet.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:45 pm

babblefish wrote:Quote: "What are you opinions? Full face users, what convinced you to go that route instead of open face?"

I've been wearing full face for almost 40 years of riding, but the sight of my friend after going down on his motorcycle on pavement just made it clearer why a full face is a good idea. He flew over the handle bars and landed face first on asphalt and slid for several feet. He was unrecognizable as to who he was for several days. Luckily, he survived the accident, but he now wears a full face all the time.

First of all, I celebrate everyone's choice about helmets and I don't judge anyone's decision whether or not to wear one where riders have that choice.

In that spirit, I originally chose the full-face because I wanted the protection. Since then, I've come to appreciate other aspects of wearing a full-face helmet. I like the fact that it keeps the bugs off my face. I like that it helps to block the sound (particularly when I'm riding my motorcycle). I like that it keeps me warm when it's cold and I love it when it's raining. I've fitted it with speakers so I can listen to my iPod. I like the fact that i can change the face shield from clear to dark and not have to wear sunglasses. Finally, my helmet is black with yellow accents and I think it helps motorists see me. Especially with my XL noggin. The one drawback is heat during the summer, but it's not as bad as you would think. It probably keeps me home (or in the car) on really hot days (90s plus with Kansas City humidity). That might not be such a bad thing. I make up for it during the winter when I'll ride in any weather except ice.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:03 pm

siobhan wrote:The HJC modular is pretty good; I personally don't wear one because I'm still not convinced on them (I know, illogical). I prefer a plain vanilla FF.

I'm not sure that's entirely illogical. Anything that has a latch or mechanism has the potential for failure even if they're very well-made, rigorously tested, and so on. The quality of modulars may improve to the point where failure is very unlikely, but is it ever going to be as unlikely as a good-quality solid FF's chinbar collapsing? Probably not.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:37 pm

ericalm wrote:
siobhan wrote:The HJC modular is pretty good; I personally don't wear one because I'm still not convinced on them (I know, illogical). I prefer a plain vanilla FF.
I'm not sure that's entirely illogical. Anything that has a latch or mechanism has the potential for failure even if they're very well-made, rigorously tested, and so on. The quality of modulars may improve to the point where failure is very unlikely, but is it ever going to be as unlikely as a good-quality solid FF's chinbar collapsing? Probably not.

There's also user error. I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone to take my modular off only to realize that one of the latches hadn't caught completely. Since then, whenever I wear it, I'll double check the closure several times before taking off.

I recently got a FF helmet after I reevaluated just how often I used the lift-up chin bar (never). Two things I noticed going from Modular to FF. Less noise, even smaller eyeport. I'll switch off between the two, but I very rarely wear my 3/4 helmet (first helmet I bought). I really miss my 3/4, but I like the added safety (and this time of year, extra wind protection) of the Modular/FF helms.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:32 pm

Dooglas wrote:Among the open face (3/4) helmets, I really like the Bell Mag-8.

I considered that one, but opted for Bell's next model "down" from that, the R/T. The price was a factor, plus I wasn't sure at the time whether I really wanted a face shield. (I added one to the R/T and now wear it all the time.) If I were buying a new helmet today, there's a good chance I'd go with the Mag-8.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:35 pm

At this point of my life, I've gotten so used to wearing a FF that if I tried riding with anything less, I'd feel like I'm wearing leather chaps without anything else underneath.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:37 pm

babblefish wrote:At this point of my life, I've gotten so used to wearing a FF that if I tried riding with anything less, I'd feel like I'm wearing leather chaps without anything else underneath.

I know just what you mean

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:51 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
babblefish wrote:At this point of my life, I've gotten so used to wearing a FF that if I tried riding with anything less, I'd feel like I'm wearing leather chaps without anything else underneath.
I know just what you mean

I should hope so... he didn't leave much to the imagination with that one.

cmac · Post by **cmac** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:10 am

I don't feel safe with a 3/4 or 1/2 helmet. I don't even feel safe without my armored jacket.
Something about high speed and concrete just don't make me want to take chances.

EDIT: Also, I've been close to dieing while sitting still in a turn lane.
Extra gear helps when youre helpless.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:14 am

Everything I 've read about helmets tells me FF is safer. Not better, not more comfortable. Safer. I've chosen a hobby that carries a risk associated with it. As I have learned in a safety course the goal is to think things through to reduce risk factors. Example: for me motorcycle hand controls which are not customized specifically for extra small hands lead to me having poor control of the motorcycle. Add brakes, gear shifting and throttle that I kept rolling by accident while trying to use handbrake = unsafe. Now take me on a scooter with easy to manage hand controls, auto transmission and lesser weight - that is a much safer situation. I feel like I actually have degree of control and it is getting better as I practice more. Not saying bad things can't happen. But by switching to scooter I've eliminated many really serious risk factors that came with me riding motorcycle. Same with a FF helmet. In (God forbid) in a splashdown I would want as much of my body covered and protected as possible. FF offers more cover. One risk factor less.

Animaetrix00 · Post by **Animaetrix00** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:44 pm

If I was going to go open face, the3/4 ones with a flip down visor thing are very nice. There are a lot of good threads here. Pick what you're comfy with! But, a 3/4 was what my friend Rus was wearing on his Vespa when he ate shit at 20mph and broke his jaw and neck. 6 months of a neck brace is not what I want!

(Not that you can't still break your neck regardless of helmet choice.

)

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:27 pm

Whatever you do, think about helmet color.
Black looks kewl and badass, but... it's a solar oven.
White on the other hand, is not. Just sayin I feel like my helmet is cooler than my bare head in the summer.

I suggest getting a mirrored shield and the most ventilated ff you can get.
Also get a helmet that has a removable liner. Get 2 and swap them out for laundry.

Also, here's a tip- carry your helmet into the air conditioning. This really helps.

pimaCanyon · Post by **pimaCanyon** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:49 am

LisaLisa wrote:Whatever you do, think about helmet color.
Black looks kewl and badass, but... it's a solar oven.
White on the other hand, is not. Just sayin I feel like my helmet is cooler than my bare head in the summer.

I suggest getting a mirrored shield and the most ventilated ff you can get.
Also get a helmet that has a removable liner. Get 2 and swap them out for laundry.

Also, here's a tip- carry your helmet into the air conditioning. This really helps.

Well, LisaLisa, your post is timely. I'm sitting here at the computer about to place an order for the Nolan N43 Trilogy (modular, but passed crash tests for full face in Europe) and I'm going back and forth between red or white. I know the white will be cooler (temperature wise), but the red looks cooler

(and I think it would look nice with the red scoot even though I doubt the shade of red on the scooter will match the helmet red).

Have you ridden with both colors, black and also white, during a sunny day in the summer? The reason I ask is that a rider on another forum posted that he'd seen a study that looked at heat gain of helmets with different colors. The darker ones did have more heat gain, but he said it was actually only slightly more than the lighter ones, said it was not as much as you would think.

I live in Tucson, though, which is about as hot and sunny a place as you can live in the US. It's HOT here from May thru September (usually over 100) and the sun is always shining. Tucson's low latitude puts that sun way up high in the sky, near overhead, for much of the day. So white would be the smart choice with respect to heat.

But red just looks cooler!

And I wonder about visibility? Will the cagers be more likely to notice a red helmet or a white one?

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:56 am

pimaCanyon wrote:I know the white will be cooler (temperature wise), but the red looks cooler (and I think it would look nice with the red scoot even though I doubt the shade of red on the scooter will match the helmet red).

Please be careful. If they're close enough that you have to put them side by side to tell that they're different, that's fine. And if they're the about the same "temperature" but one is lighter than the other, that's OK. But if you put scarlet with crimson... may the Goddess have mercy upon you.

BeachBuzz · Post by **BeachBuzz** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:31 pm

pimaCanyon wrote:Will the cagers be more likely to notice a red helmet or a white one?

nothing scientific here but my personal observation - at bike week in OC MD a few years ago. most of the (leather clad harley) crown would stop at the DE/MD border to don their turtle shells - helmets are required in MD not in DE, but there were those in the crowd that wore helmets and Mrs and I both noticed the white helmets above the routine black & chrome. we deceided then that the helmets we would buy for highway crusiing on the Burgman would be white. We both ended up with white HJC SY-Max modulars. I like to color match too but after seeing the white domes floating in the sea of bikes it made up our minds that visibility is important and white was clearly visible.
YMMV

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:46 pm

siobhan wrote: The HJC modular is pretty good; I personally don't wear one because I'm still not convinced on them (I know, illogical). I prefer a plain vanilla FF.

FF is generally quieter and lighter than modular...not a bad way to go!

The BEST helmet is the one that you will actually wear!

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:09 pm

What are you opinions? Full face users, what convinced you to go that route instead of open face?

My department chair explained how in his teens he spent months with the bottom half of his face wired together. After avoiding a dog in his neighborhood.

pimaCanyon · Post by **pimaCanyon** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:14 pm

TVB wrote:
pimaCanyon wrote:I know the white will be cooler (temperature wise), but the red looks cooler (and I think it would look nice with the red scoot even though I doubt the shade of red on the scooter will match the helmet red).
Please be careful. If they're close enough that you have to put them side by side to tell that they're different, that's fine. And if they're the about the same "temperature" but one is lighter than the other, that's OK. But if you put scarlet with crimson... may the Goddess have mercy upon you.

heh... I actually like different shades and hues of reds together, so even if the reds "clashed", I would still think it looks cool (even if it made passing motorists want to puke!)

However, it's all moot at this point. I just placed an order for a WHITE helmet. It will be cooler (temperature-wise) than red or any dark color (even if I don't know exactly how much cooler) and white is more visible IMO than some of the other light colors, like silver.