Modern Buddy

I was just looking at the scooterworks website and saw this kit for the buddy 50


http://www.scooterworks.com/MHR_Cyl_Kit ... 47C517.cfm

I know that the kits make the scooter less reliable but I'm trying to find a balance between reliability and performance. I've read here that folks havn't had the best luck with the prima kits and was wondering if this one was more reliable or if it was more expensive casue it was meant for racing (although racing a little 50 seems kind of silly)?

ok you are miss informed about kits making your scoot less reliable

a properly set up cast iron 2 ring bbk will be just like stock
the ones that are not properly set up are not as reliable because the insteller didnt do it right

with that kit you will need a bigger carb and a better flowing pipe it and i would recomend a crank upgrade as it can be a screamer
actauly that is the replica kit and not the actual team kit
it is a great kit that can be used for daily riding but not the best kit for for daily riding

if you want a great kit that can run the stock carb that has just been upjeted and and the stock pipe or an after market pipe look at this one
http://www.spmotostore.com/CYLINDER_KIT ... 909610.htm
you will need to get your own cf reeds with this kit

thanks for the info I'll look into that kit you posted. I'm definitely getting a new pipe but I'd like to avoid replacing the carb at this point if possible. btw what are cf reeds, and where would I aquire them? thanks again

I'll second that the kit doesn't mean it has to be less reliable.
Until you go doing things like cutting the cases to get the kit to fit, its basically the same as a stock motor.

Granted its not a 50cc, but my 125cc has been a 161cc for over 10k miles now and runs just as fantastic and reliably as it did on day one.

My local shop says their experience has been that the Malossi kit is more reliable than the Prima.

I run the Prima- I figured for $100, I could burn up 3 of them before I cared. I have about 500 miles on it without problems and am happy with it.

I used to own a buddy 50 and upgraded to a Malossi cast iron 70cc kit. The kit had the variator as well. It was great! I rode the hell of of that little scoot. I even rode a passenger occasionally and never had any issues.

I later did the prima pipe and it was alright. It was SUPER LOUD!!! Sounded like a tiny dirt bike... I didn't really notice any gains as far as performance,but thats because I still had the stock carb. Make sure you get the 19mm carb if you do get the pipe. You won't regret it. You only thing you lose is gas mileage.

The 70cc kit was by far the best performance mod I did to that little thing. It is a bit expensive though.

I really want to thank everyone for thier information. My dealer always errs on the side of caution and has kind of made be a bit shy of getting a 70cc kit as my little 50 is my main form of transport as long as there is no snow or ice on the road. Its good to hear that folks have had good experiences with the Malosi kits as this is what I will end up getting. Once again I really apprechiate the info, I need more power

jasondavis48108 wrote:I really want to thank everyone for thier information. My dealer always errs on the side of caution and has kind of made be a bit shy of getting a 70cc kit as my little 50 is my main form of transport as long as there is no snow or ice on the road. Its good to hear that folks have had good experiences with the Malosi kits as this is what I will end up getting. Once again I really apprechiate the info, I need more power

The key is tuning. As long as the clearances are right and the tune is good, there is no real reason why the 70cc kit shouldn't have similar reliability to stock.

Well, that and don't go bombing WOT for 3 hours.

Anachronism wrote:

jasondavis48108 wrote:I really want to thank everyone for thier information. My dealer always errs on the side of caution and has kind of made be a bit shy of getting a 70cc kit as my little 50 is my main form of transport as long as there is no snow or ice on the road. Its good to hear that folks have had good experiences with the Malosi kits as this is what I will end up getting. Once again I really apprechiate the info, I need more power

The key is tuning. As long as the clearances are right and the tune is good, there is no real reason why the 70cc kit shouldn't have similar reliability to stock.

Well, that and don't go bombing WOT for 3 hours.

speaking on this topic, what is a reasonable amount of time to ride WOT with a 70cc kit? I've heard that folks seize thier engines by going too long, but is too long 20 minutes, an hour? anyone have a genral time frame that I'm looking at? My guess is that you just want to be varying your speed as much as is possible but there are some places I'd like to be able to get to by scoot where I could see myself wanting to maintain 50mph for a good half hour.

with that trophy kit on my zuma
i have riden over an hour along country roads that are 55 mph roads with the ocasional stop sign
i had a touring pipe(not an expasnion) stock carb upjeted stock air box varatior

again if set up properly it will be just like stock if you keep your build mild
if you are worried about over heating get a cht and run a cht i will have one on my stella very soon also make sure to jet on the rich side if you are on the lean side you have more power but you run hotter this is why most people seize them up on long rides

your fuel provides cooling on an ac engine

now the more wild you build it the better off you would be doing a lc swap instead of just a bbk this is why i have a pile of lc parts for my zuma and just need a few more odds and ends

again this type of swap sould be fairly simple on the buddy as you need an hm water pump find a spot for the rad and overflow find a spot for the temp guage

jmkjr72 wrote:with that trophy kit on my zuma
i have riden over an hour along country roads that are 55 mph roads with the ocasional stop sign
i had a touring pipe(not an expasnion) stock carb upjeted stock air box varatior

again if set up properly it will be just like stock if you keep your build mild
if you are worried about over heating get a cht and run a cht i will have one on my stella very soon also make sure to jet on the rich side if you are on the lean side you have more power but you run hotter this is why most people seize them up on long rides

your fuel provides cooling on an ac engine

now the more wild you build it the better off you would be doing a lc swap instead of just a bbk this is why i have a pile of lc parts for my zuma and just need a few more odds and ends

again this type of swap sould be fairly simple on the buddy as you need an hm water pump find a spot for the rad and overflow find a spot for the temp guage

due to my relative noobness in all of this I have a few questions;

what is a cht, lc?

you said "you need an hm water pump find a spot for the rad and overflow find a spot for the temp guage" I din't know the buddy had any sort of water pump, or is this something your suggesting gets added to the system? also what is a rad (radiator?) This is another thing that the buddy doesn't have, so is it something your suggesting gets added to the scoot? I don't have any idea how one would accomplish this.

cht cylinder head temp guage (the only way to tell how hot an ac (air cooled) engine is running

lc liquid cooled

you can converter the horizontal minerilli engine (this is the engine in the buddy rough house rattler 50 zuma vino 50 2 stroke) to a lc set up by removing the fan and replacing it with a water pump mounting a radiator and all the goodies to make your air cooled eninge liquid cooled this also involes replacing the cylinder with a lc one

its not somthing that i sugest gets added its just that if you ever want to get realy wild and go on realy long rides at wot the ac engine isnt the best for that

I wouldn't run over 50 mph longer than an hour. On hot days, I would take more breaks.

I also don't try to run mine WOT for more than about 5 minutes before starting to back the throttle off to 3/4 for ten seconds, WOT for 30 seconds, 3/4 for ten, etc.

jmkjr72 wrote:cht cylinder head temp guage (the only way to tell how hot an ac (air cooled) engine is running

lc liquid cooled

you can converter the horizontal minerilli engine (this is the engine in the buddy rough house rattler 50 zuma vino 50 2 stroke) to a lc set up by removing the fan and replacing it with a water pump mounting a radiator and all the goodies to make your air cooled eninge liquid cooled this also involes replacing the cylinder with a lc one

its not somthing that i sugest gets added its just that if you ever want to get realy wild and go on realy long rides at wot the ac engine isnt the best for that

That is so cool! I had no idea that you could convert from air cooled to liquid cooled. That as to be a very expensive mod but it sounds like a lot of fun.

So I went to my dealer today and got some info that I'd like to run by the folks here I asked how much it would cost to get the following with installation and this is what I was told

stage 1 kit: $215
Malossi cyl kit: $199.99
Dr Pulley weights: $25
installation cost: 200-300 dollars

so I'd be looking at about $650-$750 dollars

This seems fairly reasonable to me as I was told that the majority of the labor would come from getting the jetting correct.

also, should I get the kevlar belt while I'm at it, I would guess that it would be cheaper labor wise to get both the weights and the belt done at the same time.

I would do the work myself but seeing as this is my sole scooter at the moment I can't afford to blow it up, although I do love breaking stuff, you learn a lot from breaking stuff

for the zuma we have come to the conclusion that kevlar belts are not worth it
if you need a new belt have them put a new stocker in

jmkjr72 wrote:for the zuma we have come to the conclusion that kevlar belts are not worth it
if you need a new belt have them put a new stocker in

awesome, that saves me $54 bucks! thanks for the info

jmkjr72 wrote:for the zuma we have come to the conclusion that kevlar belts are not worth it
if you need a new belt have them put a new stocker in

Interesting, as I had to switch to Kevlars in my 161 because I kept burning up the stock style belts. Though in a 50 its likely overkill.

Kaos wrote:

jmkjr72 wrote:for the zuma we have come to the conclusion that kevlar belts are not worth it
if you need a new belt have them put a new stocker in

Interesting, as I had to switch to Kevlars in my 161 because I kept burning up the stock style belts. Though in a 50 its likely overkill.

even the guys with the z125 that are running 202 kits are still running stock belts with better sucess then the kevlar

but it could also be that the belts that most stores and sites sell for the 125 are for the cynergus and not the zuma so they are not the right size

jmkjr72 wrote:

Kaos wrote:

jmkjr72 wrote:for the zuma we have come to the conclusion that kevlar belts are not worth it
if you need a new belt have them put a new stocker in

Interesting, as I had to switch to Kevlars in my 161 because I kept burning up the stock style belts. Though in a 50 its likely overkill.

even the guys with the z125 that are running 202 kits are still running stock belts with better sucess then the kevlar

but it could also be that the belts that most stores and sites sell for the 125 are for the cynergus and not the zuma so they are not the right size

Thats quite possible. Do you know what sort of failures they're having?

I was having serious slip issues with the stock belt, and would actually start shredding them when I got above 80mph for more than a few seconds.

well it looks like they are shredding
every one that fails seems to fail at speed and leave one heck of a rats nest under the trans cover

jmkjr72 wrote:well it looks like they are shredding
every one that fails seems to fail at speed and leave one heck of a rats nest under the trans cover

Interesting. Thats EXACTLY what the stock belts are doing to me. I wonder if they just don't fit the Zumas correctly.