Modern Buddy

Ya'll don't know the meaning of VooDoo




More pics to come tuesday

How voodoo?

Is that for a reader while tuning or are you adapting an EFI system to it (something suspicious about the timing of this and the EFI Blur - and it's components).

Nice job either way, that's nice and clean, looks factory made/designed.

O2 sensor

Lostmycage wrote:How voodoo?

Is that for a reader while tuning or are you adapting an EFI system to it (something suspicious about the timing of this and the EFI Blur - and it's components).

Nice job either way, that's nice and clean, looks factory made/designed.

Portable wide band air fuel meter . This way I can tune exactly without pulling and wasting plugs . My other go fast parts will be here Tuesday so hopefully it will be screaming by Saturday.

Efi would be sweet though, maybe this winter

Nice!

I thought this was going to be a thread about Dick Cheney getting a scooter. I'm disappointed.

rsrider wrote:I thought this was going to be a thread about Dick Cheney getting a scooter. I'm disappointed.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug

And you bought a 50 so your disappointment is normal

ScooterTrash wrote: Efi would be sweet though, maybe this winter

Not if I beat ya too it first I know where I can get one specifically FOR GY6's

Nice weld job, looks a hell of a lot better than my last Prima bracket fix. There's now more weld than bracket....

ScooterTrash wrote:

rsrider wrote:I thought this was going to be a thread about Dick Cheney getting a scooter. I'm disappointed.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug

And you bought a 50 so your disappointment is normal

Oh, I'm not disappointed about that. The 50cc scooter is just for around town. I have 2009 Kawasaki ZX-6R that can do just about anything on the street that I need. Then there is the Pontiac Solstice when I want to cruise around on nice sunny day, top down, tunes on, have some lunch in Santa Barbara. And then there's the Triumph Sprint RS when I feel like a long ride up HWY 1 and having lunch by the bay in Monterey or maybe shorten the trip up a bit and stop at Napenthe just south of Big Sur. Nope, nothing sitting in the garage to be disappointed about.

Funny how when I thought this was a good idea 6 months ago, everyone assaulted me over how bad of an idea it was. Is it because I am just not cool?
Anyway...Good luck with it.
Are you going to be using one of the new NGK mini O2 sensors??

B-rad wrote:Funny how when I thought this was a good idea 6 months ago, everyone assaulted me over how bad of an idea it was. Is it because I am just not cool?
Anyway...Good luck with it.
Are you going to be using one of the new NGK mini O2 sensors??

I must have missed that thread, but ScooterTrash thought you were onto something:

ScooterTrash wrote:

B-rad wrote:I am looking at Ngk's new o2 sensor that is designed for scooters. It is tiny and probably won't impede airflow much. I figure with the prima pipe I should have enough increase in flow to accomodate any loss due to the tip being in the pipe. The sensor is the OZAS-S3 and it is itty bitty. They just came out with it not too long ago specifically for this type of application. I just want something in there that lets me know if I am about to hand grenade my motor.

wow, I have been out of the game too long. That would work great actually. Just make sure the bung it tall enough that only the tip sticks in the pipe and you'll be good to go. Wish it was wideband though.....

I don't see it as necessary for a stock engine, but when you start getting to the point where you have to worry about octane ratings, spark advance, cam advance, and running it on the very tipping point of this little engine, then yes, an O2 sensor would come in handy. It sounds like ST's going to use it as a setup tool and not an everyday component (nice plug, by the way).

B-rad, if you're able to do it and want to, go for it. It's your scooter after all. If you do it right (not obstructing exhaust flow, good welds, no leaks) then you're not exactly going to hurt your engine. It might not be necessary, but it'd still be cool.

I was all excited to see someone fitting fuel injection, lol. I guess that's still on the back burner.

B-rad wrote:Funny how when I thought this was a good idea 6 months ago, everyone assaulted me over how bad of an idea it was. Is it because I am just not cool?
Anyway...Good luck with it.
Are you going to be using one of the new NGK mini O2 sensors??

No, I told you it would be more restrictive than it was worth and that narrow band sensors are inaccurate. While the mini one you found will work it will still be inaccurate.

I have been tuning with wideband sensors via sniffer for a while but tests have shown a full point variance from a bung next to the header vs. a sniffer.

They tested a bike from the header and it read 13.1, used a sniffer and got 14.4 which shows more than a point leaner and would cause you to richen the mixture too much.

I never once thought you had a bad idea, Just explaining that narrow band is pointless

With the wideband, are you gonna dyno it to find out what air/fuel ratio yields the most power?

What kind of wideband o2 sensor are you using? Mounted Gauge? Data log capabilities?

toycoma98 wrote:With the wideband, are you gonna dyno it to find out what air/fuel ratio yields the most power?

What kind of wideband o2 sensor are you using? Mounted Gauge? Data log capabilities?

No dyno, maybe later when I can afford it. Only one dyno here and the guy is a Harley dick

Wide band will only be run while tuning for new parts. Butt dyno for power

Using this
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcar ... t=0&page=1

ScooterTrash wrote:

toycoma98 wrote:With the wideband, are you gonna dyno it to find out what air/fuel ratio yields the most power?

What kind of wideband o2 sensor are you using? Mounted Gauge? Data log capabilities?

No dyno, maybe later when I can afford it. Only one dyno here and the guy is a Harley dick

Wide band will only be run while tuning for new parts. Butt dyno for power

Using this
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcar ... t=0&page=1

i think your or my computer has a bug I see it crawling i flicked at it and it wont go away. so i sprayed my computer with some raid .

sorry guys... going efi this weekend lol beat you both to it

gearhead wrote:sorry guys... going efi this weekend lol beat you both to it

Ahh, man. Which kit are you ending up with? Write a review and I'll put it on Voodoo-Buddy.com.

gearhead wrote:sorry guys... going efi this weekend lol beat you both to it

Believe it when I see it . I'll probably never go efi

yeahh i was just playing. but i hear all the honda scooters are going efi

ScooterTrash wrote:More pics to come tuesday

Tuesday's come and gone...

Parts came but I decided to wait for my uni filter to do any tuning. I'll go take a picture of the parts stash for you

Interweb is being slow so I'm not uplaoding good pics, cell phone will have to suffice

Very nice! (Photobucket is blocked at work, lol).

I want to install these so baaaad! but I need to wait for my filter

I thought you were against using a Uni filter?

Lostmycage wrote:I thought you were against using a Uni filter?

How much custom bracket work do you have to do to get one of those installed?

Also how can you mount it to keep the water out?

Lostmycage wrote:I thought you were against using a Uni filter?

I've done a fair bit more research. What I really disliked was the typical foam filter they sell for scooters which is a single ply 1/4in thick foam filter in a plastic cage. You may as well run an open carb . The main reason I was ever against them was due to them causing the most need for jetting. Most people think scooters are like cars and you can just change the intake. Uni makes a great filter and I now have the capability to tune precisely throughout the power band.

I'm still not 100% sure about the idea but I'll let you know in a week

I also have a design for an enclosure for weather protection and flow limiting for people who want to gain some performance without losing the fuel mileage. Although I probably wont use the housing I'll probably still make it and try it out

ScooterTrash wrote:I also have a design for an enclosure for weather protection and flow limiting for people who want to gain some performance without losing the fuel mileage. Although I probably wont use the housing I'll probably still make it and try it out

This intrigues me. I definitely want to hear more when you come up with that.

What are you going to use for the intake piping? I always figured if I went this route (the weather protection was always the show stopper for me) I'd go for a nice long intake for a more low end torque. I'd also thought about turning the carb around to get rid of the U-turn that it does, but that was on the Blur, not really any room to do it on the Buddy.

Lostmycage wrote:

ScooterTrash wrote:I also have a design for an enclosure for weather protection and flow limiting for people who want to gain some performance without losing the fuel mileage. Although I probably wont use the housing I'll probably still make it and try it out

This intrigues me. I definitely want to hear more when you come up with that.

What are you going to use for the intake piping? I always figured if I went this route (the weather protection was always the show stopper for me) I'd go for a nice long intake for a more low end torque. I'd also thought about turning the carb around to get rid of the U-turn that it does, but that was on the Blur, not really any room to do it on the Buddy.

U-turn? The Buddy doesn't u-turn I'll most likely use 4 ply silicone tubing or PVC

ScooterTrash wrote: U-turn? The Buddy doesn't u-turn I'll most likely use 4 ply silicone tubing or PVC

OK, not exactly a U-turn, but I was thinking of smoothing/straightening out the intake a bit and facing it forward... not seriously thinking about it, mind you. I bet there could be a little extra power to be had if the intake had a straighter path.

If you are referring to the 90 turn out of the head then no, there is nothing to be done. You would have to have the filter in the pet carrier not to mention the power gains would be minimal.

The uni filter has a pretty good chance of being protected in there. And it would muffle the sound of the raw power you have gained.

bigbropgo wrote:The uni filter has a pretty good chance of being protected in there. And it would muffle the sound of the raw power you have gained.

If you have the Prima pipe installed, will adding a UNI filter provide that much more power (as long as you properly jet-up) over just doing the airbox mod and removing the snorkel? I know it would push a lot more air in, but would the "stock" Prima pipe be able to get that much air out?

Might be onto something, lol, if only there weren't that pesky float bowl to worry about spilling. Like I said, I wasn't seriously thinking about it.

Not the whole carb but just the filter. They make a flexible tube that could help with fit issues when it comes to foam filters and aftermarket carbs. I am posting from my phone (no link) but scootercraft has them. I thought about this a while back not only for fit issues but protection from water and dirt. Plus for a time I wanted to strip or hide anything I could for a clean minimalist look.

bigbropgo wrote:Not the whole carb but just the filter. They make a flexible tube that could help with fit issues when it comes to foam filters and aftermarket carbs. I am posting from my phone (no link) but scootercraft has them. I thought about this a while back not only for fit issues but protection from water and dirt. Plus for a time I wanted to strip or hide anything I could for a clean minimalist look.

I've got my UNI installed on the end of the stock air tube and it hides nicely under the side panels. I've ridden it in heavy rain with no problems at all, so I'd call it protected from the weather.

cheez37 wrote:

bigbropgo wrote:The uni filter has a pretty good chance of being protected in there. And it would muffle the sound of the raw power you have gained.

If you have the Prima pipe installed, will adding a UNI filter provide that much more power (as long as you properly jet-up) over just doing the airbox mod and removing the snorkel? I know it would push a lot more air in, but would the "stock" Prima pipe be able to get that much air out?

I was being a bit sarcastic about the raw power comment. There is no such thing when it comes to a scooter. But there are improvements and enhancements. Lots of interweb propaganda leeds to the belief that insane power can be gained with a few shiny parts and an up-jet. The air box mod is a great way to supply the carb with all it needs. For the most part the pods just look cool. The noise will increase with a pod for sure. (This is all just my opinion of course )

bigbropgo wrote:

cheez37 wrote:

bigbropgo wrote:The uni filter has a pretty good chance of being protected in there. And it would muffle the sound of the raw power you have gained.

If you have the Prima pipe installed, will adding a UNI filter provide that much more power (as long as you properly jet-up) over just doing the airbox mod and removing the snorkel? I know it would push a lot more air in, but would the "stock" Prima pipe be able to get that much air out?

I was being a bit sarcastic about the raw power comment. There is no such thing when it comes to a scooter. But there are improvements and enhancements. Lots of interweb propaganda leeds to the belief that insane power can be gained with a few shiny parts and an up-jet. The air box mod is a great way to supply the carb with all it needs. For the most part the pods just look cool. The noise will increase with a pod for sure. (This is all just my opinion of course )

I dunno what you're talking about... insane power can be had with a few shiny parts, and an upjet... (and a die grinder, full tool set, machine lathe, bench vice, CNC cutting machine, valve compressor, and a LOT of time....)

Your definitely calling it like it is. I guess I should rephrase; insane power can be had. But is comes at a price. Blood, sweat, tears and deep pockets.

bigbropgo wrote:

cheez37 wrote:

bigbropgo wrote:The uni filter has a pretty good chance of being protected in there. And it would muffle the sound of the raw power you have gained.

If you have the Prima pipe installed, will adding a UNI filter provide that much more power (as long as you properly jet-up) over just doing the airbox mod and removing the snorkel? I know it would push a lot more air in, but would the "stock" Prima pipe be able to get that much air out?

I was being a bit sarcastic about the raw power comment. There is no such thing when it comes to a scooter. But there are improvements and enhancements. Lots of interweb propaganda leeds to the belief that insane power can be gained with a few shiny parts and an up-jet. The air box mod is a great way to supply the carb with all it needs. For the most part the pods just look cool. The noise will increase with a pod for sure. (This is all just my opinion of course )

Hate to break it to you but the stock airbox doesn't flow near what the pipe can put out. Also I may have figured out how to get more flow out of the Prima

ScooterTrash wrote:

bigbropgo wrote:

cheez37 wrote: If you have the Prima pipe installed, will adding a UNI filter provide that much more power (as long as you properly jet-up) over just doing the airbox mod and removing the snorkel? I know it would push a lot more air in, but would the "stock" Prima pipe be able to get that much air out?

I was being a bit sarcastic about the raw power comment. There is no such thing when it comes to a scooter. But there are improvements and enhancements. Lots of interweb propaganda leeds to the belief that insane power can be gained with a few shiny parts and an up-jet. The air box mod is a great way to supply the carb with all it needs. For the most part the pods just look cool. The noise will increase with a pod for sure. (This is all just my opinion of course )

Hate to break it to you but the stock airbox doesn't flow near what the pipe can put out. Also I may have figured out how to get more flow out of the Prima

Yeah, break the muffler off like mine did and run with an open header
Ohh thats not what you meant?

When it is finished, let's all scream, "It's alive. ALIVE!"
Hat's off to you, Voodoo Man. I'm still hoping that Dr. Pulley sliders will get my speedo to hit over 70mph even tho' I know I'll probably still be doing 63mph in real life.

april

aprilatlanta37 wrote:When it is finished, let's all scream, "It's alive. ALIVE!"
Hat's off to you, Voodoo Man. I'm still hoping that Dr. Pulley sliders will get my speedo to hit over 70mph even tho' I know I'll probably still be doing 63mph in real life.

april

It's assembled now, just need my torque wrench and some exhaust studs and she is running. Checking the tune with the stock airbox tomorrow, full tune with Uni filter on wednesday - friday

eagerly awaiting photos.

KRUSTYburger wrote:eagerly awaiting photos.

All I have is a cell pic of the valve difference. Head looks the same otherwise. I always get too involved to worry about pictures plus the hands get too dirty to touch the 20d

Mothers polisher FTW!

Whats the difference between the heads?

toycoma98 wrote:Mothers polisher FTW!

Whats the difference between the heads?

Valves are bigger (surprised you can't tell) ports on exhaust and intake are larger and smoother

ScooterTrash wrote:

KRUSTYburger wrote:eagerly awaiting photos.

All I have is a cell pic of the valve difference. Head looks the same otherwise. I always get too involved to worry about pictures plus the hands get too dirty to touch the 20d

Heh, thats the part I hate, I have to clean up to pull my Canon 450d out or risk greasing up and expensive camera

BUT would it lower compression? It looks deeper than the stock when i compared them in person.

toycoma98 wrote:BUT would it lower compression? It looks deeper than the stock when i compared them in person.

It just looks that way, if anything the combustion chamber is smaller.
I run a different big-valve head, and I know the deck height is about 2mm lower than the stock head.