Bearings

PIStaker · Post by **PIStaker** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:39 am

A couple of other posts had descriptions of various sounds coming from the rear of their scooters. (insert flatulence joke here)
Has anyone else heard a clicking sound coming from under the seat while sitting on the scoot and walking it forward and back?

From what I've read it can be narrowed to a couple of things:
bearings
clutch
belt noise
dust in the cvt area

Being that I am going to eliminate the last 3 choices on my list, next week, I was wondering if anyone has replaced the drive bearings (i believe there are 3) at home?
Will I need any special tools apart from a bearing puller?
And is this something left for the professionals?
As always, I appreciate the feedback.
Mike

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:59 pm

Sportique Scooters did mine and they struggled with it. One problem was Scooterworks (once again) sending them the wrong part--one of the bearings they sent was the wrong one.

But, even with the right parts, I believe it's a pretty big job.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes whether you do it yourself or not.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:26 pm

resurrecting this thread because i just started hearing this "clicking sound" coming from the rear of my scooter as well. reading through the threads now i am wondering if it's because of the "cleaning" we did yesterday while replacing the belt and rollers. we used an air compressor to blow all the dust out of the CVT.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Clicking can often be valves that need to be re-gapped.

It can also be something as innocuous as a pebble stuck in your tire.

I wouldn't think blowing out the CVT with compressed air would cause clicking. But who knows?

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:03 pm

can you elaborate a bit more on the valve/regapping comment? i'm going to run down to check for pebbles now. thx.

UPDATE: Ok so there are no pebbles in the tires, front or back.

Additionally, the "clicking sound" sorta sounds like the sound that a card on a bicycle wheel spoke would make, except that it's not really a paper flicking sound but more like plastic. The sound seems like it's coming from inside the pet carrier.

I don't think it's related to the wheel simply because the sound isn't consistently cyclical with the wheels turning. Sometimes it'll be 2 or 3 in a row, and sometimes it doesn't make any sounds even after the wheels have turned multiple times.

All of these tests were done with the engine off and me sitting on the scooter with my legs moving the scooter along. Putting the scooter on the center stand and manually turning the rear and front wheel doesn't NOT produce the sound at all.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:12 pm

Hmm. Odd. How many miles do you have on your scooter?

The valve cover is right below your pet carrier and right behind the vent screen under the front part of the seat.

Here's a handy "how to" for checking and adjusting your valves:

topic8312.html

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:15 pm

Doubtful it's valves if you are hearing it with the engine off.
Most likely something in the CVT or rear wheel.
Could even be the speedo cable.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:22 pm

k1dude wrote:Hmm. Odd. How many miles do you have on your scooter?

The valve cover is right below your pet carrier and right behind the vent screen under the front part of the seat.

Here's a handy "how to" for checking and adjusting your valves:

topic8312.html

I'm at 7,300 miles right now. Yesterday velobuff & i replaced the air filter, the belt, and the rollers. Air filter seems alright, not really crazy dirty. The belt looks to be in good shape as well. One of the 6 rollers seem to have a *very* slight flat spot. As far as I can tell all the old parts seem to be in really good shape. I still have all of the old parts in storage should I need a spare part in a hurry.

We literally put all the new parts in, then one-at-a-time put each of the old parts back, and then all the new parts in again, to figure out why it wasn't going faster than 20mph in the post-install quick-test-ride (answer for future trivia: you HAVE to put the black air filter cover back on when you install a new filter. the scooter will still run if you don't, but it won't go past 20mph

Anyhow it seems kind of odd that the valves would be involved since we didn't touch it at all.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:28 pm

Tocsik wrote:Doubtful it's valves if you are hearing it with the engine off.
Most likely something in the CVT or rear wheel.
Could even be the speedo cable.

With the engine on and running it's difficult to hear that specific sound, so I can neither confirm or disconfirm the sound with the engine running. I'll look more into that...

Can you elaborate a bit more on your thoughts about the CVT or rear wheel? Personally I've kind of ruled out the wheel because 1) it's a sound that I've never heard before and 2) if it were related to the rear wheel I would've heard the sound since I replaced the rear wheel a few weeks ago.

Ditto on the speedo cable. Can you elaborate on that? I didn't look specifically but I haven't noticed anything odd with the speedometer during acceleration or with the odometer counter.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:51 pm

Once I had a clicking on my bicycle. I basically tore it apart trying to figure out what was making the noise. I couldn't find ANYTHING wrong with the bike. So I put it all back together and it was still making the clicking sound. Then I noticed a small piece of plastic had become unraveled on my biking shoe. The piece of plastic was hitting my crank arm each revolution. It was my shoe, not my bike.

I brought up that story to make sure it's not something else like your pant leg. or reflector zip-tie on your fork. Did you make sure you removed all the stickers on the belt before installation?

Tocsik, that's why I wrote it was odd. I just linked the valve info because she asked. It's obviously not the valves if it make noise without the motor running. You might be right about the speedo, but it would be an odd coincidence.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:20 pm

wait what? there's a sticker on the belt?

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:26 pm

un_designer wrote:wait what? there's a sticker on the belt?

I don't know about Buddy belts, but sometimes with automotive belts they'll have a sticker or stapled paper wrapping the belt.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:18 am

un_designer wrote:
Tocsik wrote:Doubtful it's valves if you are hearing it with the engine off.
Most likely something in the CVT or rear wheel.
Could even be the speedo cable.
With the engine on and running it's difficult to hear that specific sound, so I can neither confirm or disconfirm the sound with the engine running. I'll look more into that...

Can you elaborate a bit more on your thoughts about the CVT or rear wheel? Personally I've kind of ruled out the wheel because 1) it's a sound that I've never heard before and 2) if it were related to the rear wheel I would've heard the sound since I replaced the rear wheel a few weeks ago.

Ditto on the speedo cable. Can you elaborate on that? I didn't look specifically but I haven't noticed anything odd with the speedometer during acceleration or with the odometer counter.

Well, after reading more of you descriptions, I have no idea!
Shoot, it's intermittent and you hear it with the motor off. That's a stumper. When you mentioned it sounded like it came from the area of the pet carrier I was thinking something in the fan shroud but you wouldn't hear that unless the motor was running. Just to be sure, I wonder if it's worth taking those 3 screws off the fan intake to get a look up in there.

i am wondering if it's because of the "cleaning" we did yesterday while replacing the belt and rollers. we used an air compressor to blow all the dust out of the CVT.

Did you just start hearing the clicking after this cleaning? I wonder if a piece of the CVT cover gasket is hitting on something in there. Just a longshot because you would most likely hear it all the time; not intermittently.

If it were me, I would operate the kick starter a couple of times to be sure those splines are engaged properly. I would do this only because it would cause moving parts in the CVT to move around. It would let me know it's engaged correctly and would be "just one more thing to try" when troubleshooting an intermittent clicking sound.

I mentioned the spedometer cable only because you were hearing the clicking sound while sitting on the scooter and moving it without the motor running. Just thinking of things that move when the scooter moves without the motor running.

Hey, do you hear the clicking sound when you push the scooter without sitting on it? This would make the rear ride higher. Check that little rubber mudflap above the rear wheel hugger and make sure it's not hitting anything.

Just brainstorming.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:41 am

Heat expansion and contraction?

Did you make sure the thin plastic CVT cover gasket was properly in place?

Poltergeist?

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:43 am

lots of good brainstorming idea guys. thank you. i'll make some time to look at it tomorrow and see.

also, i rode the scooter with a passenger earlier and now can confirm that the clicking sound is audible WITH the engine on as well. it's audible when the throttle is not engaged. with the throttle engage, the engine noise drowns out all other noise so i don't think we can test that.

k1dude wrote:Heat expansion and contraction?

Did you make sure the thin plastic CVT cover gasket was properly in place?

Poltergeist?

i think you may be on to something here. i KNOW for a fact that the CVT cover gasket is not 100% there when we removed the cover. i remember seeing and making a remark about how a part of the gasket has either disintegrated or somehow gone missing when we first removed the CVT cover. could that be it?

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:05 am

Tocsik wrote: Did you just start hearing the clicking after this cleaning? I wonder if a piece of the CVT cover gasket is hitting on something in there. Just a longshot because you would most likely hear it all the time; not intermittently.

Yes. I didn't hear this clicking sound prior. I park the scooter in front of my car in the parking spot, so I always have to spend about 20-30 seconds maneuvering it in between the 2 cars and out of the parking spot. It's audible when I do that. I did a quick google search and found a thread where someone took a video of the sound. Mine sounds kind of like that, except it only make the sound every so often, not continuously like in the video that that person took. Here's the link:

http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cg ... e=1#327254

Tocsik wrote: If it were me, I would operate the kick starter a couple of times to be sure those splines are engaged properly. I would do this only because it would cause moving parts in the CVT to move around. It would let me know it's engaged correctly and would be "just one more thing to try" when troubleshooting an intermittent clicking sound.

We tried kickstarting it yesterday, and I just tried again about half an hour ago. The kickstarter works.

Tocsik wrote: I mentioned the spedometer cable only because you were hearing the clicking sound while sitting on the scooter and moving it without the motor running. Just thinking of things that move when the scooter moves without the motor running.

I'm not sure where the speedometer cable is, but since I was able to reproduce the sound with the engine running I think we can rule this one out as well.

Tocsik wrote: Hey, do you hear the clicking sound when you push the scooter without sitting on it? This would make the rear ride higher. Check that little rubber mudflap above the rear wheel hugger and make sure it's not hitting anything.

Sitting or not sitting on it doesn't seem to make much difference, also probably because I'm really light. However, there is definitely a difference between having the scooter on the center stand vs. having it on the ground. Even when I'm not sitting on the scooter, having it on the ground puts some pressure on the rear tire, and the scooter makes the sound when I'm just walking it back and forth. When the scooter is on the center stand, I cannot hear the sound. This leads me to believe that it might be the axel?

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:25 pm

That video sort of sounds like the belt is creaking against the variator. Like maybe you did a really good job of cleaning. Squeeky clean. The occasional clunks I'm not too sure about. Maybe it's the rollers moving around or maybe sticking and releasing.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:06 pm

i think you may be on to something here. i KNOW for a fact that the CVT cover gasket is not 100% there when we removed the cover. i remember seeing and making a remark about how a part of the gasket has either disintegrated or somehow gone missing when we first removed the CVT cover. could that be it?

I've only had a little bit of CVT cover gasket for many thousands of miles now. It's not too crucial if you keep the CVT clean (which I do every oil change).

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:03 pm

When was the last time you checked the wear on the rear brake?

If you put the buddy on it's center stand, and give the rear wheel a good spin, does it spin freely / easily? does it make the noise?

As far as if a bearing has failed in the final drive, the easy way to check is to change the gear oil. If the oil is dark black / looks cloudy / has silver 'glitter' in it, then you have a bearing that has failed or possibly a chipped gear (unlikely).

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:18 am

k1dude wrote:That video sort of sounds like the belt is creaking against the variator. Like maybe you did a really good job of cleaning. Squeeky clean. The occasional clunks I'm not too sure about. Maybe it's the rollers moving around or maybe sticking and releasing.

We really went to town cleaning the variator discs that hold the belt and rollers.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:18 am

Tocsik wrote:
i think you may be on to something here. i KNOW for a fact that the CVT cover gasket is not 100% there when we removed the cover. i remember seeing and making a remark about how a part of the gasket has either disintegrated or somehow gone missing when we first removed the CVT cover. could that be it?
I've only had a little bit of CVT cover gasket for many thousands of miles now. It's not too crucial if you keep the CVT clean (which I do every oil change).

so that rules that out. one more item to cross off the list.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:23 am

SYMbionic Duo wrote:When was the last time you checked the wear on the rear brake?

If you put the buddy on it's center stand, and give the rear wheel a good spin, does it spin freely / easily? does it make the noise?

As far as if a bearing has failed in the final drive, the easy way to check is to change the gear oil. If the oil is dark black / looks cloudy / has silver 'glitter' in it, then you have a bearing that has failed or possibly a chipped gear (unlikely).

i haven't but it was checked when it was serviced the last summer when i brought it into the dealer for service, but i guess it couldn't hurt to check now.

when i have the buddy on its center stand and spin, it spins freely and easily and does NOT make any noise.

i'll be changing/checking the gear oil next then. the thing that has me baffled is that this sound literally started after we changed the belt, rollers, and air filter. we didn't touch or do anything else. it's odd that it started after those changes.

keep the ideas coming all. thanks for the inputs.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:06 am

I would just ride it for awhile and see if the sound disappears. For all we know there's a small piece of flash on the belt or something that will wear off. I personally think the belt/variator work better a little bit dirty. When I blow my CVT out, I only use compressed air. I don't wipe anything out with a cloth because I think the light coating of residue powder helps the belt slide up and down the variator.

velobuff · Post by **velobuff** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:03 am

Just to close the loop on this. The problem was apparently when he put the rear wheel back on after replacing the rear tire, the big bolt was over- torqued.

That might have caused something to rub when otherwise it shouldn't have.

When we replaced rollers, etc the noise went away that afternoon but reared its head again. Maybe the noise was drowned out prior to us replacing rollers and then became intermittently apparent after.

Who knows? Moral of the story is follow the service manual.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:28 pm

sad news

viewtopic.php?p=292811#292811