tire talk

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:49 am

ok, I actually started a thread a while ago (4,000 miles ago to be exact) for input, and cannot find it! stupid seach engine. Anyway I made it 7000 on my originals and they were not even that horrible. I replaced with zippy continentials and now at a few miles shy of 11,000 the rear is looking a little rough-I plan on dragging it out a bit more since it rarely rains which is when I would worry about wear most. Anyway, I really would like longevity on the next rear tire. keep in mind I put 7000 on the stock tires, discuss.
PS the zippy on my Vespa GTS-a notorious rear tire eater-has about 4,000 also and looks no worse than the one on the buddy. 3500 is the norm for rear vespa tire. Shouldnt I expect more than 4000 miles for a buddy tire?

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:04 am

Yes, you should get more than 4K. Are you pretty diligent about maintaining your tire pressure?

I'm an evangelical fan of the Heidenau K61s. (I beat this drum pretty often, too, heh.) They're a bit pricey, but well worth it in terms of both performance and longevity. They're the only tires I'll put on my Vespa. I've got over 7K on my rear tire and I'm not exactly easy on them. There's a bit of a Heidenau cult on Modern Vespa… Not sure what kind of longevity people are getting out of theirs.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:35 am

I get 4000 on my rear, 10,000 on my front give or take. I'd probably get a little more on the rear if I didn't have a top case and if I didn't sit all the way at the back of my seat.

robby · Post by **robby** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:36 am

A search tip: instead of using phpbb search, go to google and search for "site:modernbuddy.com <your search>"

I've had much better (and faster!) luck this way.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:14 am

I DO monitor the tire pressure- I check every 2 weeks or less, and they are never below 26 or so (I keep them around 30). I do not have a top case, but I often have stuff in my basket on the rear rack, but that is nothing new. As far as the Heidenau K61s, if they last 2x as long- I am good-I am sure they are not actually twice as much as the zippys. I am going to try and stretch the current tires out a bit more, but no more zippys for me (at least on the Buddy)

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:51 pm

Yeah.... Tires, the the constant question about the all important rubber doughnuts!

My factory Maxxis is a 'bologna-skin' after 8000 miles the front is in great shape. My service guy tells me Maxxis tires are NO LONGER available for some stupid reason, annnd I want to stick with white walls (the scoot looks damn sexy with them) What to do, what to do???

These or those??

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:04 pm

Scooterworks has the Maxxis blackwalls.

Is anyone running the Prima tires?

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:19 pm

I'm currently running the michelin S83 front and back. They are super durable, cheap, and handle well in both wet and cold weather but I did notice a slight drop in acceleration and top speed when they were mounted. I will probably switch over to more of a sport tire now that the Buddy is my fun scooter and not my commuter.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:54 pm

ericalm wrote:Scooterworks has the Maxxis blackwalls.

Yeah but, I want white walls......

My dealer however, tells me NO.
He must also have a bunch of the 'Contis' sitting around taking up space he wants rid of and I only need one......

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:10 pm

I'm using the Prima and really like it.

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:57 am

We put the "new Maxxis" PRIMA white walls on the rear of two buddies about the same time since we were told the Maxxis were gone.

I am at 1500 miles on mine (no topcase), closer to 32-35 pounds and the Prima has wear markers that I have just made contact with. There looks to be plenty of tread - even down the center other than where we hit the wear bars and the sides still look pretty new. I think we will be hard pressed to hit much over 4,000 miles which means they are not going to quite hit what we did on our Maxxis tires where we hit 9,200 miles for two rear tires or 4,600 miles average each tire. They do stick real good to the road!

The front tire is the original Maxxis and is still looking good with 10,700 miles on it. We keep it pretty close to 30 psi.

We are switching to the Heidenau K61s that ericalm suggests next time we have to switch any tires.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:34 am

I stopped trying figure out how many miles I get before changing the back tire as it's depressing. Michelin S1 get even less than Zippy 1. Motorsports says the grippier the tire, the soft the rubber the faster the wear. Stock is way less grippy from what I can recall. I remember feeling a world more stable on Zippys.

it is what isn't really talked about in the economy of scooters. Yes, way better MPG more costily and more frequent maintenance than a car. That is more frequent oil changes WAY more tire changes and if you're using it every day you hit the mile marks for oil changes every 1.5 months and tires every 4. It's costly.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:59 am

jijifer wrote:it is what isn't really talked about in the economy of scooters. Yes, way better MPG more costily and more frequent maintenance than a car. That is more frequent oil changes WAY more tire changes and if you're using it every day you hit the mile marks for oil changes every 1.5 months and tires every 4. It's costly.

I really have to wonder what the difference in upkeep is per mile. You also do a lot of the type of riding that wears 'em down faster.

A lot of GTS riders get under 3K on theirs.

robby · Post by **robby** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:43 am

How do you know when your tires are done? Is it something you feel in the ride or are there typically tread indicators?

I looked for indicators on mine but didn't find any. I'm assuming the lines in the middle of the tread in this photo are just from the mold and aren't indications that it's done with its useful life, correct?

edit: image is huge, so just click to see: http://grab.by/grabs/d568cabb5a8811fa69 ... ab4868.jpg

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:02 am

jijifer wrote:I stopped trying figure out how many miles I get before changing the back tire as it's depressing. Michelin S1 get even less than Zippy 1. Motorsports says the grippier the tire, the soft the rubber the faster the wear. Stock is way less grippy from what I can recall. I remember feeling a world more stable on Zippys.

it is what isn't really talked about in the economy of scooters. Yes, way better MPG more costily and more frequent maintenance than a car. That is more frequent oil changes WAY more tire changes and if you're using it every day you hit the mile marks for oil changes every 1.5 months and tires every 4. It's costly.

I think now that I am in SD I can sacrifice grippiness for longevity since I am not riding in rain like I was all the time in Cleveland. But yeah the upkeep is frequent. Between our 3 scooters we are getting something done monthly it seems.

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:16 am

jijifer wrote:it is what isn't really talked about in the economy of scooters. Yes, way better MPG - more costily and more frequent maintenance than a car. That is more frequent oil changes WAY more tire changes and if you're using it every day you hit the mile marks for oil changes every 1.5 months and tires every 4. It's costly.

We figure about $0.04 per mile for tires on a Buddy using the local dealer to change them. This includes averages of 10K on the front and 4K+ on the rear Maxxis/Prima (white walls). Yet our next step is to cut that in half or better, maybe 1.8 cents per mile by changing our own tires or at least removing the wheel and taking it to the local motorcycle shop to install them. When we buy the tires online, we have to figure in shipping as well.

Cost of service is stupid high and almost makes riding a Buddy not cost effective until we realized using a good synthetic and following a modified service plan you can still hit all the services needed and yet eliminate a bunch of mid-services.

The service mileage we are following on the three current scooters we purchased brand new are 300 (miles), 1,200, 4,200, 7,200, 10,000, 13,000. With this in mind it seems like the cost to operate my Buddy 150 was right at $1,400 or 14 cents a mile for the first 10,000 miles. I have all the data - yet not sure where I filed it.

This does not include the cost of the scooter or taxes.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:03 am

MYSCTR wrote:
jijifer wrote:it is what isn't really talked about in the economy of scooters. Yes, way better MPG - more costily and more frequent maintenance than a car. That is more frequent oil changes WAY more tire changes and if you're using it every day you hit the mile marks for oil changes every 1.5 months and tires every 4. It's costly.
We figure about $0.04 per mile for tires on a Buddy using the local dealer to change them. This includes averages of 10K on the front and 4K+ on the rear Maxxis/Prima (white walls). Yet our next step is to cut that in half or better, maybe 1.8 cents per mile by changing our own tires or at least removing the wheel and taking it to the local motorcycle shop to install them. When we buy the tires online, we have to figure in shipping as well.

Cost of service is stupid high and almost makes riding a Buddy not cost effective until we realized using a good synthetic and following a modified service plan you can still hit all the services needed and yet eliminate a bunch of mid-services.

The service mileage we are following on the three current scooters we purchased brand new are 300 (miles), 1,200, 4,200, 7,200, 10,000, 13,000. With this in mind it seems like the cost to operate my Buddy 150 was right at $1,400 or 14 cents a mile for the first 10,000 miles. I have all the data - yet not sure where I filed it.

This does not include the cost of the scooter or taxes.

plus if you are using a scooter(s) for everyday transport and are going without a car you must add in the potential cost of a car, too. a years worth of payments could easily eclipse the cost of total ownership of a scooter

new Buddy $2800 + another scooter at $2200 = $5,000

that should make a halfway decent down payment on a 4 cylinder Honda Accord with a 60 month loan...

resale, you say? bleh who cares. people keep paying for new cars all their lives just the same

misu · Post by **misu** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:06 am

jijifer wrote: it is what isn't really talked about in the economy of scooters. Yes, way better MPG more costily and more frequent maintenance than a car. That is more frequent oil changes WAY more tire changes and if you're using it every day you hit the mile marks for oil changes every 1.5 months and tires every 4. It's costly.

where do you guys order your tires? any recommended online places or just buy from dealer? specifically the heidenau k61 that seems to be recommended...

i use my scoot as a commuter and have 1500miles in about 3months. looks like i'll be needing new tires by the fall/winter.

i plan to do all my own oil changes so that should save a few bucks and don't plan to take the scooter in until 1 year or 5000miles. did have the dealer do the 1st 600 mile service though.

does many of you go to the trouble of removing the rear wheel yourself vs having the dealer do it? how much does that save (1 hour of labor?)

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:51 pm

You can order tires from Scooterworks or Motorsport, but I just get mine from NoHo Scooters since they mount them. Mounting tires is one of those things where I don't think it's worth doing it myself. I've seen too many damaged rims from DIY jobs and too much can go wrong with stems, etc.

For your service schedule, you should have your 4K service done at the dealer as well. This includes checking your valves and transmission. Unless you have some experience with the former, also best left to them until you're ready to start poking around in the engine.

We were planning maintenance classes in LA area last year but got sidetracked. This may be the year we do it!

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:20 pm

I would drive up (likely in a cage) for maintenance classes. Sounds like something I'd like to know, though I don't mind giving my pals at Motorsport business.

bilyum · Post by **bilyum** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:29 am

What is the usual charge for front and rear tire installation,,,?

heyitsomid · Post by **heyitsomid** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:46 pm

are those maintenance classes still happening?

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:34 pm

REALLY would like to come up for those classes if you do them Eric. Keep me posted if that happens!

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:38 pm

We'd still love to… The mechanics I know are all busting butt these days due to being so busy! I'll put the feelers out again and see if we can get something scheduled.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:09 pm

I have asked about getting mechanical classes around here but no one seems to get all fired up about it.

My scoot has been on Michelin S83 tires for a few years now and they are pretty good. I do want to try Eric's Heidenau K61s when I change them next time. Might be nicer on the grooved highway on which I travel to work!

People are discussing maintenance charges? I've had to drive my RAV4 (christened "Blue Thunder" by my sister, the previous owner) and, in spite of it getting decent gas mileage for an SUV (22+ mpg), the weekly gas cost is KILLING me! Going from $7/week to $45/week in gas is obnoxious.

loodieboy · Post by **loodieboy** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:03 pm

Ericalm, do you have a source for the Heidenau K61s? And do you have an opinion on how they compare to Michelin S1's? Thanks!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:57 pm

The Moto Amore website lists retail dealers around the US for Heidenaus. Vespa Lexington is on the list.

http://moto-amore.com/heidenau/index.html

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:58 pm

loodieboy wrote:Ericalm, do you have a source for the Heidenau K61s? And do you have an opinion on how they compare to Michelin S1's? Thanks!

I can't really so a 1-to-1 comparison with the S1s, which I never had on the scoot that I have Heidenaus on.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:01 pm

I've had the Vee Rubber VRM 351 for about 2 weeks,, including a full day trip. So far, they feel great. We've had a lot of rain this past week, and they grabbed the pavement and I pushed on with confidence, not shaky arms. This is their "winter tire", but pretty much all season. I ordered them through my shop and had them install. $220 total for both. Tires is the last ting I will attempt to do the work on myself.

HowHH · Post by **HowHH** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:47 pm

Moto Amore will also take orders over the phone and ship out directly to you. Pretty quickly as well.

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