Another comparitive...I know... Honda PCX vs Genuine.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:36 am

Ok, so while my wife is still pushing for me to get the Stella, I'm still in "Daily Driver" mode and keep getting tempted by another automatic. We're coming down to a matter of weeks before I pull the trigger on a new bike, and I still have some nagging bits about my vintage vs. modern egos.

Went by the Vespa dealer, and left irritated at pricing (and avaiablity... they have nothing but a bunch of pink LX150's at $5k OTD). They had a used Buddy and I told her "Well, that's one of the alternatives to the Stella" and she instantly called it "Dorky" and "China-looking"

She insist paying $5k for a scooter is ok as long as it's a Vespa, or just to get the Stella. But, she's all about the ascetics and refuses to ride herself...

But then I caught wind that Honda dealers in Phoenix are ACTUALLY getting some PCX 125 scooters! Honda of course is notorious for ignoring the US market, but there is just something about this scooter that I like. It is so anti-vintage that it's cool. Very Japanese in it's approach. Yes, I know that Honda engineers the fun out of their bikes, but for those of us who grew up on Gundam Wing and Vol-Tron, there *is* an attraction here.

OTD would be about $4k, and I probably could finance with a large downpayment if I wanted to cushion the blow. The question is... am I out of my mind?!? My hope is to have a TRUE shifter bike by '12 Amerivespa, and it will probably be a rebuilt Stella or something if I get this bike. But... I dunno. The Buddy just seems a bit too small for a daily driver, even with all it's cool points.

Just throwing it out there since Vespa seems fit to out-price themselves out of the commuter market.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:31 am

Well this is comming from a a bias Honda fanboy but I think you really can't go wrong with a Honda Scooter. There are tons of advantages to Honda

(1) the fit & finish is on par with vespa (at least for their sh150i I've not seen the PCX in person yet)

(2) their dealer network is huge and parts are easy to obtain

(3) No one can match their reliability

I don't know about your local dealer but I know that here in Ann Arbor the local dealer has Honda scooters prices below msrp right now. I couldn't believe it when I saw that the SH150i was priced at $3500! That's $800 less than I paid a year ago. They also have the Elites marked way down so you may want to see if the PCX will be discounted as well. Even if it isn't I highly doubt that you could regret buying a Honda. I think of Honda as many other think of Vespa, they may not have the metal body but they are the premium ride in my view and they are not ignoring the U.S. market nearly as badly as they have been as is evidenced by their bringing the SH150i to the U.S. market. Now if they would just bring the SH300i to the U.S. I could buy my ultimate scooter.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:19 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:Well this is comming from a a bias Honda fanboy but I think you really can't go wrong with a Honda Scooter. There are tons of advantages to Honda

(1) the fit & finish is on par with vespa (at least for their sh150i I've not seen the PCX in person yet)

(2) their dealer network is huge and parts are easy to obtain

(3) No one can match their reliability

I don't know about your local dealer but I know that here in Ann Arbor the local dealer has Honda scooters prices below msrp right now. I couldn't believe it when I saw that the SH150i was priced at $3500! That's $800 less than I paid a year ago. They also have the Elites marked way down so you may want to see if the PCX will be discounted as well. Even if it isn't I highly doubt that you could regret buying a Honda. I think of Honda as many other think of Vespa, they may not have the metal body but they are the premium ride in my view and they are not ignoring the U.S. market nearly as badly as they have been as is evidenced by their bringing the SH150i to the U.S. market. Now if they would just bring the SH300i to the U.S. I could buy my ultimate scooter.

Everything in Arizona is above MSRP. There are Suzuki dealers still selling 2009 GZ250's for $3999 and I'm told that there are waiting lists for the PCX. Even Piaggio is worse than usual, charging $4399 for PINK ONLY 2009 LX150's and their only consolation is allowing you to "select" the color you want. Then they take your bike apart and send it to the body shop down the street to be repainted (with the cheapest price point possible I imagine)

It seems that dealers in AZ ignore MSRP and just tack on a few hundred. As it is I may not be able to use my student loan money to actually GET wheels now after discovering some new developments (I may have to put off school for another year due to a MAJOR paperwork screw up I just discovered). So, While I debate on which bike is actually reliable I may not even be able to get one now.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:38 pm

One of our club members owns a PCX125, and I must admit that it is, to me at least, visually appealing. Throw in Honda's reputation for reliability, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find fault with this scoot on most levels.

However, and here again this is just my opinion, the scoot is visually misleading: it looks like it can be ridden in a "Tron-like" position when, in reality, its more or less the standard "sit up and beg". Sorta "pocket-bikish" if you get my drift.

I know that was the buzz kill for me when I sat on one.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:44 pm

The seating is just fine for me, since I have a tall torso and short legs (6' even with a barely 30" inseam). I honestly DO love the modern look they have without being too much like a Riva (sorry 80's fans!). I *really* want to love the Buddy, but it's just too damned small in my opinion. Another Stella is ending up in my possession by the summer of '12, no doubt there. Right now is just the question of what to use as a commuter. So, no worries about having me around here without a Genuine scooter in the stable.

I just need a 125 that's bigger in frame. The only other legit options kind of either suck or are overpriced (and I'm NOT paying $4k for a Piaggio Fly 150). *If* I can find a PCX I'm leaning towards that as the everyday bike.

But, like I said I have a few weeks in which to sort out paperwork and to determine what we can afford. I also have to get the wife a new car so we have to see what payments we can swing and if we want to finance one or two machines.

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:55 pm

I really like the PCX and if I could wrangle a ride one I'm sure that I'd fall in love. It's minimalistic, engine-wise, but having learned that less is often more on scoots like my old Kymco Agility 125 and on the Buddy 50s, I'd be very tempted if the right-priced PCX came my way. I love the Buddy too, but I just don't fit on it comfortably either, and that makes me sad.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:31 pm

I think the Buddy is a perfect local commuter scooter. I don't know how they did it but, even though it looks small it fits almost everyone. The main thing I hear from bigger people is that their feet don't fit. I thought the same thing at first, but after a day or two they just found their place. A Buddy 125 is a great bang for the buck!

I haven't seen or ridden the Honda yet, but I'll comment on the photo. It looks like it would be better for riding two up than a Buddy which is really cramped. Larger wheels are attractive to some, especially to people that live in places with rough roads. As mentioned you also have the Honda network, parts, and reliability.

Vespas are Vespas, premium price for a premium product. That being said they have their issues just like any other brand (kiskstarting a leader, fuel pumps...etc) and it can be a wait for replacement parts.

I do know several people that ride a vespa as a daily commuter, they wanted a Vespa and nothing else. They are a great scooter to ride, smooth, good power, metal and probably hold their value better than others.

So did that help you? Probably not!

But if you're going to have problems in life, trying to decide which scooter to buy is a good one!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:42 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:if you're going to have problems in life, trying to decide which scooter to buy is a good one!

Amen to that! I have to say that I actually really enjoy that dilemma.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:49 pm

You also might want to check out Kymcos. They have a big selection and make a good scooter.

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:55 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:You also might want to check out Kymcos. They have a big selection and make a good scooter.

Great advice. The new 300i looks like a winner as does the Like 200i. Both appear to be great values and Kymcos are bulletproof as well.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:48 pm

mattgordon wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:You also might want to check out Kymcos. They have a big selection and make a good scooter.
Great advice. The new 300i looks like a winner as does the Like 200i. Both appear to be great values and Kymcos are bulletproof as well.

The People GT300i is awesome (at least spec wise) and until Honda brings the SH300i to our shores I think it's the next best thing but the like 200i is really quite unattractive when you see it in person. Quite honestly the Buddy 125 is a far more attractive and a better value in my book.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:52 pm

mattgordon wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:You also might want to check out Kymcos. They have a big selection and make a good scooter.
Great advice. The new 300i looks like a winner as does the Like 200i. Both appear to be great values and Kymcos are bulletproof as well.

I didn't ride one but at Amerivespa I sat on a Like and well....I liked it! I talked to someone riding one and they loved it. Remember that it is actually a 163cc. KYMCO has dropped the M.S.R.P. price of the Like 200i from $3,399.00 down to $2,599.00 I would find that VERY tempting!

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:28 pm

neotrotsky wrote:Ok, so while my wife is still pushing for me to get the Stella, I'm still in "Daily Driver" mode and keep getting tempted by another automatic. We're coming down to a matter of weeks before I pull the trigger on a new bike, and I still have some nagging bits about my vintage vs. modern egos.

Went by the Vespa dealer, and left irritated at pricing (and avaiablity... they have nothing but a bunch of pink LX150's at $5k OTD). They had a used Buddy and I told her "Well, that's one of the alternatives to the Stella" and she instantly called it "Dorky" and "China-looking" She insist paying $5k for a scooter is ok as long as it's a Vespa, or just to get the Stella. But, she's all about the ascetics and refuses to ride herself...

But then I caught wind that Honda dealers in Phoenix are ACTUALLY getting some PCX 125 scooters! Honda of course is notorious for ignoring the US market, but there is just something about this scooter that I like. It is so anti-vintage that it's cool. Very Japanese in it's approach. Yes, I know that Honda engineers the fun out of their bikes, but for those of us who grew up on Gundam Wing and Vol-Tron, there *is* an attraction here.

OTD would be about $4k, and I probably could finance with a large downpayment if I wanted to cushion the blow. The question is... am I out of my mind?!? My hope is to have a TRUE shifter bike by '12 Amerivespa, and it will probably be a rebuilt Stella or something if I get this bike. But... I dunno. The Buddy just seems a bit too small for a daily driver, even with all it's cool points.

Just throwing it out there since Vespa seems fit to out-price themselves out of the commuter market.

You are not out of your mind.BUY IT. You only live once.Im gonna get a blur at one point...just to have a badass scoot.Vintage is cool but..........

ggs34 · Post by **ggs34** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:45 pm

all there scooters are now made in china with a fat price tag go buy a kymco at least you wont get soaked in your wallet

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:13 pm

Raiderfn31 wrote: You are not out of your mind.BUY IT. You only live once.Im gonna get a blur at one point...just to have a badass scoot.Vintage is cool but..........

Not to start a flame war, but while the new Stellas follow classic styling and design and are great scooters, there is no way they can be considered "Vintage".

Akaipaps · Post by **Akaipaps** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Have you checked Craigs List in Phoenix? Is a used scoot out of the question for you?

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:22 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote: You are not out of your mind.BUY IT. You only live once.Im gonna get a blur at one point...just to have a badass scoot.Vintage is cool but..........
Not to start a flame war, but while the new Stellas follow classic styling and design and are great scooters, there is no way they can be considered "Vintage".

There are some who would even take offense at '70s Vespa P-series being called "vintage." They differentiate between vintage and classic regardless of age. It's pretty absurd, IMHO…

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:57 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
mattgordon wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:You also might want to check out Kymcos. They have a big selection and make a good scooter.
Great advice. The new 300i looks like a winner as does the Like 200i. Both appear to be great values and Kymcos are bulletproof as well.
I didn't ride one but at Amerivespa I sat on a Like and well....I liked it! I talked to someone riding one and they loved it. Remember that it is actually a 163cc. KYMCO has dropped the M.S.R.P. price of the Like 200i from $3,399.00 down to $2,599.00 I would find that VERY tempting!

In Cali, 163cc makes it freeway legal, it is fuel-injected and equipped with dual disc (F+R) brakes. Comes with a factory color-matched topcase too.
Darn nice looking scooter too, if you ask me.

Frankly, that really stacks up nicely against the new Buddy 170i at 3299. Can't go wrong with either.

Nice to see some late/post recession new products and choices for us.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:24 pm

Why not the SH150? I saw one at the Honda dealer on McDowell in Scottsdale. I gotta admit, if you hide the price tag, it's a fine looking scoot. Or if you want something just to tide you over until you get the shifty for AV'12, buy my Fiddle from me - I'll give you a good price and that'll force me to pull the trigger on something instead of pining for the 'rumored one' to appear.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:24 pm

Syd wrote:Why not the SH150?

Indeed, this just might be the best modern scooter on the road (along with it's big brother, the SH300

). Europe loves the heck out of this bike. About the only thing wrong is the price - admittedly almost a grand more than the PCX. Even there, certainly more than a Buddy but about the same as an LX/S Vespa.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:52 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Syd wrote:Why not the SH150?
Indeed, this just might be the best modern scooter on the road (along with it's big brother, the SH300 ). Europe loves the heck out of this bike. About the only thing wrong is the price - admittedly almost a grand more than the PCX. Even there, certainly more than a Buddy but about the same as an LX/S Vespa.

I loooove my sh150i and although I wasn't sure at the time of purchase it was worth every penny. I was just at the delaer last week and Honda has marked them down to $3500 now

I paid $4200 a year ago. At $3500 they are a steal of a deal IMO. The thing is they do have larger wheels and ride more like a motorbike than a small wheeled scooter. It's great for commuting but not quite as fun as the smaller Buddy.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:03 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:I was just at the dealer last week and Honda has marked them down to $3500 now I paid $4200 a year ago. At $3500 they are a steal of a deal IMO.

Geez, that's tempting! (chant softly - I don't need another scooter, I don't need another scooter,,,)

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:21 pm

Kymco- I just don't like them. They don't look very inspiring, the local dealers for them aside from one guy 40 miles on the other side of the city are dicks (It was the local Kymco dealer that fragged my Vespa GTS250ie and demanded I thank them for it after waiting 4 MONTHS for their excuse of a repair) and ... eh... the just don't convince me that it's worth spending that much money on. To me, many Kymcos still look Mainland Chinese.

Sh150i- BLECH! THAT is an ugly scooter. And, it's nearly 5 grand OTD for one of those locally. The idea is to save cash, and the PCX looks far better and is quite a bit cheaper. At 5k I'd simply take the LX150 and take a hit on the gas mileage and customer service.

As for Craigslist, in Phoenix it's a joke! TONS of bikes, but all Chinese, with con-artists and tweakers everywhere on it. Also, a PCX is going to be impossible to find in showrooms much less used. There might be a modern Vespa that pops up once a week or once every two weeks and a few honda 50's, but that's about it. Harleys and Hayabusas are the main staple here, and everything that looks like a Harley. I try to avoid Craigslist since the last two cars we looked at off there came with the seller meeting us with an OPEN CARRIED FIREARM!

I'm a gun owner myself, but never felt compelled to meet with someone when selling a car ARMED! There are some real skeevy folks out there... I look on there but haven't seen much nor do I hold my breath.

Phoenix is just a bad place to love a scooter

And, as for Honda being made in China: The PCX is actually manufactured at Honda's own Indonesian plant, for what it's worth.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:42 pm

ggs34 wrote:all there scooters are now made in china with a fat price tag go buy a kymco at least you wont get soaked in your wallet

Well, that's not so. The PCX125 is made in Thailand.
.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:46 pm

Try Scooter and Auto Source in Prescott (and Sedona). He has a number of Vespas for MSRP in a number of colors. I'm particularly fond of the orange 150S. Almost bought it, but then I got my MadAss instead.

--Keys

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:07 pm

Keys wrote:Try Scooter and Auto Source in Prescott (and Sedona). He has a number of Vespas for MSRP in a number of colors. I'm particularly fond of the orange 150S. Almost bought it, but then I got my MadAss instead.

--Keys

Well, the thing is I'm kind of pissed off at Piaggio STILL. Just dealing with the GTS left a bad taste in my mouth and I enjoy riding too much to get embroiled in the "MUST. HAVE. VESPA." route many go with. It really comes down between a Stella 4T and a PCX at this point honestly. Both offer what Vespa cannot at alot cheaper price point, even at MSRP (considering the average dealership fees with most Vespa shops). MotoCity still has a Blue Stella 4t for 3600 OTD, and the Honda comes in at just slightly more but with liquid cooling, fuel injection and unabashed Japanese style. Two different bikes with two appealing options. Both are far easier to repair and maintain than modern Vespas, and even the used LX150's can't even deliver fuel injection at the same new price as the PCX or a shifter bike.

The Buddy would be a contender if it weren't so *small*. I like everything else about it, but i just can't get into small frames. I'm trying hard, but odds are it will be one of the two mentioned bikes before.

I think that in 2011, the Vespa "quality" appeal just isn't there. They price themselves like they're the only scooter choice in the US after ignoring the US for over 20 years, but the truth is there are better choices. I guess it's more of a loss of confidence in Piaggio thread as much as a question of the PCX.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:33 pm

Dooglas wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:I was just at the dealer last week and Honda has marked them down to $3500 now I paid $4200 a year ago. At $3500 they are a steal of a deal IMO.
Geez, that's tempting! (chant softly - I don't need another scooter, I don't need another scooter,,,)

you need another scooter...you need another scooter...you need another scooter...you need another scooter

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:05 am

We got a PCX 125 in our club and it is a great bike. It really attracts a lot of attention as well, moreso among scooterists than than non. Everybody in the club has to stop by and check it out.

I haven't ridden one, but, based on what I've seen and on Honda's reputation, I'd say go for it. Musselman Honda down here in Tucson also has at least one on the showroom floor if you miss out on the one up there.

Good hunting,
Howard

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:18 am

Howardr wrote:We got a PCX 125 in our club and it is a great bike. It really attracts a lot of attention as well, moreso among scooterists than than non. Everybody in the club has to stop by and check it out.

I haven't ridden one, but, based on what I've seen and on Honda's reputation, I'd say go for it. Musselman Honda down here in Tucson also has at least one on the showroom floor if you miss out on the one up there.

Good hunting,
Howard

@ Keys & Howardr:

Thanks for the heads up guys! Come the end of August, if I haven't pulled the trigger on the Stella I'll check both out. Tucson simply because ScootOver is down there and have a very good rep (and they're the Corazzo dealer as well) and I'll be going to my once-every-three-month pilgrimage to J&G Sales in Prescott around the same time, so Encore Performance and the local Vespa dealer isn't out of my way as well. Who knows? Perhaps the lowering gas prices will put people in an artifical lull and I'll be able to sneak out with a good deal...

Granted there's also a guy local who's been trying to sell the same Black '07 Stella for $2300 and for some reason it hasn't sold, so everything is still up in the air. All I know is that it's down to Genuine or Honda for the commuter bike.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:57 am

I have to admit, I don't like a lot of "modern" styled scooters but the Honda PCX is quite nice. It's a unique design, not too gratuitously pointy like a lot of sport-style modern scooters. I don't go by the local Honda dealer often, but they never seem to have one in stock (for me to ride!) when I do.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:40 am

neotrotsky wrote:
Granted there's also a guy local who's been trying to sell the same Black '07 Stella for $2300 and for some reason it hasn't sold, so everything is still up in the air.

Seems kinda pricey.
FWIW new 2009 Buddy 125 are going for about $2300 in LA.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:51 am

desmolicious wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:
Granted there's also a guy local who's been trying to sell the same Black '07 Stella for $2300 and for some reason it hasn't sold, so everything is still up in the air.
Seems kinda pricey.
FWIW new 2009 Buddy 125 are going for about $2300 in LA.

Again, durable goods in Phoenix are always pricey. Local politics are doom and gloom on everything economic and according to them the great depression is upon us and soup kitchens are bound to pop up any day now... so inflation is getting irritating here. Most used Vespas are selling for $3000 to $4000 for a freakin' LX150 or even an ET4! Just recently someone had a "vintage" '81 P200 for $3400 that looked more like a $1500 bike anywhere else in the world

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:21 am

neotrotsky wrote:Most used Vespas are selling for $3000 to $4000 for a freakin' LX150 or even an ET4!

Wow, that's a lot more than around here. ET4s with low miles can go for a lot though!

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:34 am

ericalm wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:Most used Vespas are selling for $3000 to $4000 for a freakin' LX150 or even an ET4!
Wow, that's a lot more than around here. ET4s with low miles can go for a lot though!

Here's just a sample of the insanity:

'05 ET4 for $3000 (really?)
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/2497900548.html

A '79 "Vintage" P125 series for $3400, and it's not in "mint" condition
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcy/2483682398.html

A "salvage/restored" GTS250ie (Which means the frame was damaged in AZ or the total repair costs exceeded the value of the bike, and usually can't be fully insured. Liability only) with NO KEYS and unknown mileage for $2450. He was asking $3000 "firm" but after two months he's finally come down in price
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/2479054543.html

There was a decent priced ET4 for $1550, but the guy never returned emails or messages. Most of the "decent" priced scooters around here are flakes like this. Also there was a dealer ad for a pink LX150 for $3299, but when I went to the dealer, they said it was a typo and they actually meant $4299

Stellas are better priced, when you can find them. Average around $1800 to $2500 for 2 strokers. Buddy scooters are VERY rare, so I really don't count them as are Piaggio.

The scooter market in Phoenix is just difficult. Getting a vintage scooter is worse because alot of the vintage guys don't want to sell unless it's a hand picked customer to "preserve the scene"

Then again, the vintage snobs have turned me off from that side of things completely. They keep insisting that modern bikes aren't "real" scooters, yet there hasn't been a "real" scooter sold in the US for over 30 years! And, they don't even consider the Stella a "real" scooter, but a "clone".

Just needed to vent. It's been a rough week and bickering about transportation has made things in the house tense. I just need to ride.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:29 am

Very cute! Reminds me a bit of the Yamaha Majesty I just sold...and miss. (I knew that would happen!)

Can you get taller windshields for them?

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:06 am

Bleh

I hope not. I'm not a fan myself of tall windscreens. The somewhat-sporty look actually appeals to me. I *did* see that there are custom side luggage paniers somewhere out on the interwebs that look custom made, but finding a manufacturer is nearly impossible since it was off a Malaysian site and not a Honda factory option. Not something for everyday riding, but still kind of cool to have

But, I will know more Tuesday. Going to look at them then and determine if these are something I can make happen this week.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:20 pm

neotrotsky wrote:
Here's just a sample of the insanity:

'05 ET4 for $3000 (really?)
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/2497900548.html

A '79 "Vintage" P125 series for $3400, and it's not in "mint" condition
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcy/2483682398.html

A "salvage/restored" GTS250ie (Which means the frame was damaged in AZ or the total repair costs exceeded the value of the bike, and usually can't be fully insured. Liability only) with NO KEYS and unknown mileage for $2450. He was asking $3000 "firm" but after two months he's finally come down in price
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/2479054543.html

The ET4 doesn't look like a bad deal. Personally I like the ET4 much better than an LX150.

The P is way overpriced, but the seller can ask whatever they want.

The GT250 - run away! run away!

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:38 pm

In '08 ET4s around here were fetching higher prices than even lightly used LXs. There was an ET bubble; prices were over $4000 for some.

Photos don't do the PCX justice. It looks much nicer on the road IMHO.

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:43 pm

neotrotsky wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:Well this is comming from a a bias Honda fanboy but I think you really can't go wrong with a Honda Scooter. There are tons of advantages to Honda

(1) the fit & finish is on par with vespa (at least for their sh150i I've not seen the PCX in person yet)

(2) their dealer network is huge and parts are easy to obtain

(3) No one can match their reliability

I don't know about your local dealer but I know that here in Ann Arbor the local dealer has Honda scooters prices below msrp right now. I couldn't believe it when I saw that the SH150i was priced at $3500! That's $800 less than I paid a year ago. They also have the Elites marked way down so you may want to see if the PCX will be discounted as well. Even if it isn't I highly doubt that you could regret buying a Honda. I think of Honda as many other think of Vespa, they may not have the metal body but they are the premium ride in my view and they are not ignoring the U.S. market nearly as badly as they have been as is evidenced by their bringing the SH150i to the U.S. market. Now if they would just bring the SH300i to the U.S. I could buy my ultimate scooter.
Everything in Arizona is above MSRP. There are Suzuki dealers still selling 2009 GZ250's for $3999 and I'm told that there are waiting lists for the PCX. Even Piaggio is worse than usual, charging $4399 for PINK ONLY 2009 LX150's and their only consolation is allowing you to "select" the color you want. Then they take your bike apart and send it to the body shop down the street to be repainted (with the cheapest price point possible I imagine)

It seems that dealers in AZ ignore MSRP and just tack on a few hundred. As it is I may not be able to use my student loan money to actually GET wheels now after discovering some new developments (I may have to put off school for another year due to a MAJOR paperwork screw up I just discovered). So, While I debate on which bike is actually reliable I may not even be able to get one now.

Those scooter prices are amazing since Phoenix took such a hit in the recession....one of the worst in the west. Here in So-Cal where we also took a pretty good economic gut punch, it's really been a buyer's market for that sort of thing for a couple years.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:24 pm

Try this! You wouldn't believe how much fun it is!!!

--Keys

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:44 pm

ericalm wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote: You are not out of your mind.BUY IT. You only live once.Im gonna get a blur at one point...just to have a badass scoot.Vintage is cool but..........
Not to start a flame war, but while the new Stellas follow classic styling and design and are great scooters, there is no way they can be considered "Vintage".
There are some who would even take offense at '70s Vespa P-series being called "vintage." They differentiate between vintage and classic regardless of age. It's pretty absurd, IMHO…

I showed my age on that one. OK I kinda get it.Thanks.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:46 pm

Keys wrote:Try this! You wouldn't believe how much fun it is!!!

--Keys

Dude that looks like a bucket of fun. There may be accidents...

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:54 pm

let us know what you think Keys. I'm seriously considering selling one of the Rats for something a little "different" and my dealer just got the madass in.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:10 pm

Raiderfn31 wrote:
ericalm wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote: Not to start a flame war, but while the new Stellas follow classic styling and design and are great scooters, there is no way they can be considered "Vintage".
There are some who would even take offense at '70s Vespa P-series being called "vintage." They differentiate between vintage and classic regardless of age. It's pretty absurd, IMHO…
I showed my age on that one. OK I kinda get it.Thanks.

don't sweat it...we all learn along the way...and really there is always controversy on what is "Vintage". For me the 68 SS180 was the end of Vintage. The last piston ported motor made and the last of the true Sport Series! YMMV!

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:46 pm

neotrotsky wrote:Bleh I hope not. I'm not a fan myself of tall windscreens. The somewhat-sporty look actually appeals to me.

Actually, I see your point with that scooter. A tall windshield would look weird on it, and take away from the sporty look.

I'm a windshield fan though (but not on that one, for aesthetics), because for me it takes the fun out of riding when much of my energy is taken up with holding myself on the bike to keep from getting blown away (which is how I felt prior to installing mine). Nice to keep most of the bugs from slamming into my jacket too. But to each his own--variety is much of what makes this forum interesting.

...just read your posts again. I had missed the part where you said you might have to put everthing on hold. Sorry to hear that--if things change, maybe you could consider buying a scooter from elsewhere in the state, or in a neighoring state, where the prices might be more reasonable? Maybe find one you like, go visit a friend or relative that lives nearby, and bring it back with you. UHaul (at least in Washington) has motorcycle trailers for rent at $15 a day (or as little as $23 a day with $5,000 extra "no deductible" insurance).

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:20 pm

neotrotsky wrote:I'm not a fan myself of tall windscreens. The somewhat-sporty look actually appeals to me.

michelle_7728 wrote:A tall windshield would look weird on it, and take away from the sporty look.

There's tall and there's tall. I really don't see the point of the short flyscreens that push the wind against your chest or buffet your helmet. That is somewhat worse than nothing. If you are going to have a windscreen at all, the air stream needs to go over your head in your normal riding position - otherwise what's the point? In my own experience, the mid-height windscreens with a laminar lip seem to be the most practical choice.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:06 pm

Keys wrote:Try this! You wouldn't believe how much fun it is!!!

--Keys

It looks like a total blast! But, I'm going back to my primary mode of transport being a scooter. So, I do have to be a bit practical

The whole being able to carry stuff and having room for the occasional passenger, because my wife is a bit of a wuss and would NOT get on the back of that thing (No matter how cool it could be!).

Then again, she is getting a Suzuki Vitara... that technically is practical enough for BOTH of us if I play it out right...

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:51 am

neotrotsky wrote:...there was a dealer ad for a pink LX150 for $3299, but when I went to the dealer, they said it was a typo and they actually meant $4299...

I saw that on Saturday night, and it's still up today. If you had a mind to I'll bet you could get them to honor that price, with maybe a well placed mention of bait and switch. Then again, maybe not. VofC is associated with RideNow; let's just say I'm not a fan.

JohnnyScoots · Post by **JohnnyScoots** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:07 am

I love the PCX. I just wish it were a 200+

It looks like it should be.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:19 am

Syd wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:...there was a dealer ad for a pink LX150 for $3299, but when I went to the dealer, they said it was a typo and they actually meant $4299...
I saw that on Saturday night, and it's still up today. If you had a mind to I'll bet you could get them to honor that price, with maybe a well placed mention of bait and switch. Then again, maybe not. VofC is associated with RideNow; let's just say I'm not a fan.

Funny they call it a typo, since it's not only shown at 3299 on their main page, as a special, but also is the listed price for each of three LX's in their Current inventory.

Modern Buddy