Modern Buddy

I'm seeing a lot of references on this product in these forums, but I'm unclear as to whether I'm supposed to be using it regularly, or only if I have problems with the engine.

Can you guys clue me in?

It's billed as a do-all additive, elixer. It appears to help keep carbs and injectors clean. It works fine, in my experience, as a fuel stablizer.

SeaFoam is a fuel stabilizer. The main use for it is to prepare the scooter for the winter, or any long period of non-use. Over time, gas gets gunky and can clog stuff up. SeaFoam prevents that (and can reverse some that has already been done if you don't put it in preventatively).

Some people like to use it more often, but I'd say, unless you're having possible fuel issues (popping, dragging, stalling), it isn't really going to do anything for you.

The important thing is, if you do use it, don't use more than 1oz (~1/8 cup) per full tank (1 gallon of fuel). My scooter shop, Scooters Go Green specifically don't recommend SeaFoam. When I asked them why, they said because some people pour the whole bottle into their tank and ruin their engine. Of course, I stated that that is a pretty silly reason to not recommend a product, just because some people can't properly read instructions.

Sea Foam is generally used more as a cleaner than a stabilizer. I think Sta-Bil is the more commonly used and recommended product if you're storing a scooter.

Some folks recommend using Sea Foam in every tank. I'm not sure there's been much demonstrable benefit or harm from doing it.

I agree with ed85379, it's best used to clean out gunk. Periodic use may be helpful as a preventative measure if you're not experiencing problems. But most of the issues it helps with come from not riding the scooter or letting it sit, bad gas, bad oil, etc.

Sea Foam recommends 2oz/gal. of gas, which is what I've used with no problem.

As for what it actually does:

Safely frees sticky lifters and piston rings, removes carbon build-up and oil residue, reduces pinging and rough idle. For Carburetors or Fuel Injected Gasoline Engines - Autos – Trucks – Tractors – Motorcycles – Marine – Small Engines – Industrial Engines Great for Diesel Engines Too!

Sea Foam® Motor Treatment is a 100% pure petroleum product that safely and effectively cleans internal fuel and oil system components, helping your gasoline or diesel engine run cleaner and more efficiently. Sea Foam® is an EPA-registered product, and will not harm engine components, seals, gaskets, catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.

Sea Foam® liquefies gum and varnish deposits or internal engine contaminants, removing carbon deposits, freeing sticky valve lifters and rings, improving idle quality, pinging and hesitation problems. By using Sea Foam® to eliminate varnish and carbon buildup, mechanics can more accurately diagnose mechanical problems that may exist. That is why Sea Foam® has been so popular with professional mechanics for over 65 years.

Source: http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html

It's mostly naphtha (a solvent) and a light mineral oil. I have no idea why it works as well as it does, but it has certainly worked for me to get rid of ethanol gunk from stale gas.

I use it mostly over the winter when my bikes don't get used as much.

For whats its worth I used Sea Foam for the first time last fall/winter in all of my engines and come spring time every engine started, as if they were being used daily.Needless to say I'll repeat Sea Foam use yearly.

Sometimes you will read someone pumped a batch of bad gas in their engine, that's when it's time to pour in the Sea Foam.Good stuff!

10 bucks for a 16 oz bottle, that you should get 10+ uses out of , anything that can help your carburetor and prolongs the life of your bike really seems like a no brainier to me , hell i spend ten bucks at burger king

beastmaster wrote:10 bucks for a 16 oz bottle, that you should get 10+ uses out of , anything that can help your carburetor and prolongs the life of your bike really seems like a no brainier to me , hell i spend ten bucks at burger king

Sounds like you treat your scooter's insides better than your own!

lol , i think your right

Silver Streak wrote:It's mostly naphtha (a solvent) and a light mineral oil. I have no idea why it works as well as it does, but it has certainly worked for me to get rid of ethanol gunk from stale gas.

I use it mostly over the winter when my bikes don't get used as much.

It also helps with the gunky ethanol in fresh gas, especially for 2T motors. Rubber seals get eaten up by ethanol...I hate that stuff. It also helps prevent water vapor from adhering to the ethanol.

It used to actually be seafoam color but they changed that a few years ago so it could still be used in diesel without messing up the fuel color.

I use it whenever I remember to stick a quick splash in my scoots before a refill. I figure that preventing a fuel system issue is even better than fixing one after it happens

I never really got much out of using seafoam, mostly used stabil in the winters and went through my carbs by hand every spring as I dont trust an additive to get it all

Ever since I started using syntek I haven't touched seafoam. Syntek offers better fuel mileage, system cleaning and fuel storage. Also has been proven to prolong engine life. I used it in my VW and gained 6mpg which is good considering it pays for itself at +3mpg. I now use it in everything including my lawnmower gas lol.

I in no way sell this stuff by the way, I pay retail at $32 for 2oz (treats 160 gallons) my pops used to sell it but now I just love the product

You can get it here
https://lemons3.gosyntek.com/shop/index ... y=Products

Edit: just did the math, a 2oz bottle would last around 12000 miles if you just used it on the scoot

SeaFoam is a gasoline treatment that was originally designed for boat engines (hence the name), which tend to sit unused, in a damp environment, for a long time. The stuff does no harm to fuel system components, but gasoline sold at every gas station in North America has detergents that do the same thing SeaFoam's maker claims, i.e., clean the fuel system. Sta-Bil is a good thing to use if your scooter will sit unused for 60 days or more, but the best way to keep gas from going bad is to burn it.

Oil treatments are unnecessary as well, oils having improved considerably over even the last five years. Keeping your oil fresh is the best thing you can do to ensure long engine life.

What I'm about to talk about is not my own knowledge, but instead the experience of a master mechanic here in the Twin Cities who works on every kind of scooter and motorcycle you've ever heard of and twelve you haven't. He's the only guy who works on my bikes now. Beyond his extensive experience, he's also got very strong opinions about SeaFoam, its proper uses and especially about how we mortals tend to improperly use it. There are dozens of bikes every season that come into his shop that are only there because of SeaFoam. I've been apprenticing with him since December and have seen many of these cases with my own eyes. So that said, I submit the following:

SeaFoam is one of those things that everybody seems to have their pet use for. It's got almost an urban legend quality of myth in the scooter and motorcycle world as a cure-all recommended by a friend of a friend whose brother is a boat mechanic's accountant. Thing is, like many urban legends, there's a kernel of truth and a lot of bad information at the same time. I used to use it regularly, but having learned more about it, I've stopped, and I have some info I want to share with the class.

First of all, SeaFoam has its uses as a cleanser, solvent and gas stabilizer, but how you use it is critical. Used correctly, it can be helpful for certain engine conditions, but used incorrectly it can cost you a carb clean, or at worst, a motor.

For example, you can add SeaFoam to a can of gas to keep out moisture and stabilize the fuel. You can dose a tank of fuel and run it through to clean up minor deposits in jets and other carburetor passages (although this is not recommended — more on that in a second). You can use it to clean out carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and valve train. You can use it as a solvent when you tear a carburetor apart and clean the body, jets and bowl (but NOT the rubber bits or gaskets). The key here is that SeaFoam has its proper uses when it comes in temporary, passing contact with your engine and carburetors.

However, there are a lot of ways people use SeaFoam that is actually harmful for their engine and especially their carburetors. When left in contact for almost any period of time, SeaFoam does two destructive things: it eats rubber (especially older rubber), and it leaves a snotty yellow scum throughout the carburetors if it sits very long. On newer scooters like the Buddy, everything is new enough that you can kind of get away with it, but only for a time. On older bikes, exposure to SeaFoam can start eating the rubber out of the carbs straight away. Let it sit in there and the damage is only magnified, plus you start getting the yellow snot of doom, which clogs your jets and passages faster than the fresh SeaFoam and gas can clean it back out. I've seen this first hand in torn down carbs and it's not pretty. It's fixable, but you'll be looking at a rebuild of all the rubber components and probably a dunk in a caustic bath, rather than a simple cleaning.

Secondly, SeaFoam's primary purpose is actually as a combustion chamber and valve cleaner. It accomplishes this by essentially spiking the combustion temperature to burn off carbon deposits. This puts an end to smoking and missing from dirty rings and valves in some cases. When really necessary, this is an appropriate thing to do. Unfortunately, a lot of people treat it as a cure-all, and also tend to think that "more is better" and over-dose. This only serves to further spike the combustion chamber temperature and easily damage the engine. Two-stroke engines, such as on Stellas or vintage Vespas, are especially sensitive to these fluctuations in temperature because the oil ratio is no longer high enough to properly protect the engine at that higher temp.

So if you have a real engine problem that warrants using SeaFoam, definitely stick to the recommended doses. (Or better yet, use Yamalube combustion chamber cleaner). However, if your engine is smoking and rough running such that it really needs these kinds of treatments, what it probably really needs is a proper mechanic.

But I won't leave it there. There are great, engine-safe alternatives to SeaFoam that I can recommend. For gas stabilization, stick with Sta-bil. It won't leave gunk in its wake. But better yet, make sure to fully winterize your scooter, which includes draining the carb bowl. This is actually really easy to do and usually requires only a flat-head screwdriver.

For the occasional clean out, head over to O'Reily's and grab a bottle of straight techron, and be sure to use as directed. Do not "shock" dose your gas. When used properly, Techron is rubber safe in your carbs, and sensor safe for the FI bikes. That said, don't let a bottle of cleaner stand in for a real carb clean when you need one.

So if you're using SeaFoam regularly right now, I highly recommend you stop. Your scooter shouldn't need it, especially every tank. With a clean carb, fresh gas, and a good spark plug, your scooter should run just fine. If it doesn't, don't risk it. Go see a good mechanic.

Whoa! Nathaniel post. Whoa!

Since I don't ride my Buddy 50 much I always keep seafoam in the tank. I use 3oz to a full tank and it has kept my scooter happy. The gas I put in to store the scooter in November, I finally ran out this week with no difference in starting or performance. I did this last year too and have not found any funk in my carb nor any signs of it eating the rubber parts in my carb. Not saying it can't happen just saying I haven't found any signs that it's happening with my scoot. I tried Stabil the first year and it didn't work so well for me, so I'll be sticking with Seafoam.

And I'll still be recommending a small amount of Sea Foam every couple of tanks to the people buying new scoots. Especially for riding in Michigan (scoot could be sitting for a very long time without formal storage prep) and for the newbie syndrome (First week: "I love the scoot" Second week to three months later: "I never ride the damn thing!"), I feel confident that the benefits of proper Sea Foam use outweigh the risks.

Like Jason, I started with Stabil. I was religious in the winter, running Daisy up and down the parking lot when I could, running and revving her on her center stand when that was all I could do.

But after that first winter, she never performed the same way. I had been able to cruise at 45 and hit 52 on the downhill home from work before. After the first winter, I struggled to hit 40 on a flat.

My shop told me carb clean, I paid for carb clean and saw, literally, no difference.

Two things happened this year:

1) Toward the end of last year I watched the Buddy 50 prep video for Genuine dealers and (I'm pretty sure this is where I heard it) heard for the first time ever that the 50 should run 89 octane gas. Which Daisy now does.

2) I started using seafoam regularly.

One, both, the weather, or magic has Daisy performing like that first year again. Yes, I need to replace her belt and rollers. Yes, I'm sure another clean on this, her fourth year, is called for, seafoam or no. But I'm kind a believer now. With the caveat that Nathaniel sounds like he knows what he's talking about and I'll watch out for negative effects.

ScooterTrash wrote:I never really got much out of using seafoam, mostly used stabil in the winters and went through my carbs by hand every spring as I dont trust an additive to get it all

Ever since I started using syntek I haven't touched seafoam. Syntek offers better fuel mileage, system cleaning and fuel storage. Also has been proven to prolong engine life. I used it in my VW and gained 6mpg which is good considering it pays for itself at +3mpg. I now use it in everything including my lawnmower gas lol.

I in no way sell this stuff by the way, I pay retail at $32 for 2oz (treats 160 gallons) my pops used to sell it but now I just love the product

You can get it here
https://lemons3.gosyntek.com/shop/index ... y=Products

Edit: just did the math, a 2oz bottle would last around 12000 miles if you just used it on the scoot

Im curious as to how you measured that small amount of Syntek? Eye dropper?

used to be a loyal sta-bil fan...With the addition of the alcohol ( Thanks ! Grrrrr) . I have switched to star-tron for winter storage. A boat friend recommended it. And it seems to work quite well. Though I understand that sta-bil has introduced an alcohol version now as well

I have a whole garage full of vintage bikes and will swear to sta-bils long term storage benefits!

As to sea-foam? I agree , it was made to clean top ends of carbon... thats its main purpose and what it should be used for...I see guys on car forums using this stuff for everything just short of spermicide...It has become WAYYYYY to much of a cure all magic for me...The current interwebs darling juice of the month...

viney266 wrote:used to be a loyal sta-bil fan...With the addition of the alcohol ( Thanks ! Grrrrr) . I have switched to star-tron for winter storage. A boat friend recommended it. And it seems to work quite well. Though I understand that sta-bil has introduced an alcohol version now as well

I have a whole garage full of vintage bikes and will swear to sta-bils long term storage benefits!

As to sea-foam? I agree , it was made to clean top ends of carbon... thats its main purpose and what it should be used for...I see guys on car forums using this stuff for everything just short of spermicide...It has become WAYYYYY to much of a cure all magic for me...The current interwebs darling juice of the month...

Sta-bil is fine as a fuel stabilizer, but it does nothing to clean out alcohol snot in carbs that have sat with stale gas in them. This is where SeaFoam has really worked for me. Different strokes, I guess...

According to their website, Star Tron is supposed to be specially formulated to fight carbon deposits, ethanol, and water. I met Genuine's field guy at my local shop this past winter, and he spoke of it highly.

I don't know whether it's as agressive (and/or possibly destructive) as SeaFoam.

[somewhere around the house I've still got some old Bardahl. Pour that baby straight into the top of the carb....]

Silver Streak wrote:
Sta-bil is fine as a fuel stabilizer, but it does nothing to clean out alcohol snot in carbs that have sat with stale gas in them. This is where SeaFoam has really worked for me. Different strokes, I guess...

^^^ agreed ^^^ stabil and star-tron are stabilizers (for winter storage)...not a cleaner...

Never tried seafoam personally...Just think its gets a little too much "love"

I use sea foam, but it's hard to keep it foamy once I get away from the beach!

My engine is kind of salty now.

For a bike that does not start and could be due to the carb needing cleaned, should I pour 1oz of seaform into the gas tank and try starting the scooter? Will this help without me needing to take apart the carb?

swartzieee wrote:For a bike that does not start and could be due to the carb needing cleaned, should I pour 1oz of seaform into the gas tank and try starting the scooter? Will this help without me needing to take apart the carb?

Put in 2oz/gallon of fuel.

If the scooter gets ridden regularly, this is very unlikely to help. It may clean the carb a bit but you shouldn't have enough material to prevent a start unless you've really gummed up the works.

If it hasn't been ridden, how long has the scooter been sitting? Was it prepped in any way beforehand? If it's been sitting a very long time, you might need to start by draining the gas, putting fresh gas in, then adding the Seafoam.

But once you get to the point where it won't start, you're looking at a clog (if the issue is in the carb) and Seafoam is unlikely to be of much help.

If it does start, then dies soon after or won't idle, it may help, but you should probably still have it cleaned.