Modern Buddy

As you may have seen, I am short one very cute Italia thanks to someone's sticky fingers, and am currently in the market for a new ride.

I understand the basic differences between the 170i and the Stella 4T.
The 170i is modern in appearance, the Stella is vintage.
The 170i is fuel injected, the Stella has a carburetor
The 170i is a twist n go, the Stella is a manual
etc etc

I would like to know what others differences there may be... handling differences, feel differences, acceleration differences... My shop does not allow test rides and I'm afraid I might not enjoy the Stella after buying it, especially after riding an Italia for a year and a half.

Thoughts are appreciated... if this is an old topic of discussion, feel free to direct me to older threads that address this issue!

Thanks

I can only compare the 4T Stella to either my modern Vespas or a Buddy 125, as I haven't ridden a Buddy 170i.

The best way I can describe it is this: Riding the Stella is like driving an older model, stick-shift Jeep. Riding the Buddy 125 is like driving a Mazda Miata. Riding a modern Vespa is like driving a new Mercedes roadster.

They're all a blast, but the level of sophistication is vastly different, and the fun comes from different directions.

Here's my Stella 4T 3K review:
topic17786.html

The Italia is an all-around easier bike to own, ride and (in some ways) maintain. The Stella is very much an old design with one big change, the 4T engine. It's not slow, but it doesn't accelerate as well as an Italia. It doesn't handle as well either. And the brakes are much weaker. While I'm not sure shifting is significantly harder than not shifting, it does require more work and attention.

I'm not knocking the Stella at all—I love it! But it's a totally different riding experience. In general, I'd say that if the primary appeal of the Stella is its appearance, it may not be as good a choice. Riding one is much different than riding a Buddy of any type.

As much as I appreciate my Stella and my LX, every time I get on a Buddy I think, "Whoa, these things are fun to ride!"

ericalm wrote:And the brakes are much weaker.

Funny you mention this Eric because my rear brakes are pretty much worthless. Do you know if folks making upgrades to the braking system to improve stopping power?

ericalm wrote:While I'm not sure shifting is significantly harder than not shifting, it does require more work and attention.

I'd say if you're really into the driving experience you'll love the Stella, but if you're mostly interested in the riding experience perhaps not so much.

I've driven standard shift cars most of my life so I really enjoy the act of shifting; it makes me feel like I really have control of my bike or car. That being said, I'll probably be looking at something like a Vespa 300 next year so I can enjoy the riding experience with my wife onboard, but my Stella won't be going anywhere since I really love the bike. Now if I can only get folks to stop ogling my Stella every time it's parked I'll be a happy guy.

On a practical level,
• underseat storage — Stella has none, 170i has what you are used to with the Italia.
• 170i is faster of course so better for some commutes. The Stella is slower than your Italia.
• if there is any significant elevation change where you ride, for the 170i it is a non-issue, for the Stella rejetting may be needed.

There have been a lot written about both scooters. However, I bought a 30 yr old classic Suzuki motorcycle and enjoy the shifting most of the time. The key words are "most of the time". After riding through Minneapolis the other day, I did get tired of shifting at all of the stop lights and started missing my Buddy. So just remember, your switching from a automatic twist and go to a scooter that you HAVE to shift all of the time.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:• if there is any significant elevation change where you ride, for the 170i it is a non-issue, for the Stella rejetting may be needed.

Not a lot of commutes have a 7,000 foot change in elevation!

I own a 2stroke stella and my girlfriend just purchased a 170i which I got to ride a few times.

Hands down the 170 is a much faster ride, my stella has a sito+ pipe and my girlfriend smokes me from a stop without even going wot (I gotta open up all the way to barely keep up).
The buddy has brighter turn signals and tail/brake lights, the electrics seem much more reliable than a Stella's (my dealership confirmed to me that the electrical problems have been carried on from the 2t to the 4t model).

That being said, I feel that the stella is much more planted. Probably as a combination of greater weight and a wider profile, but I found it harder to keep the buddy riding in a straight line while accelerating (might just be the fact that I'm used to a right-side heavy bike).

The stella clearly wins in the looks department for me, and shifting remains something I enjoy doing, so if you want the vintage look and riding the stella is where it's at. If you are looking at performance the buddy clearly outclasses the stella.


My dealership said they'll be letting me test drive a 4 stroke stella as soon as it's not wet out, so I'll be able to comment on ride comfort when I do that (the 2stroke vibrates like crazy at higher speeds, the 4t obviously shouldn't have the same problem)

Get the 170i. That's my opinion.

I've ridden the 125, the 170, and the Stella.

The Stella is for if you love nostalgic old stuff and LOVE the looks. Some people love shifting and fussing with old style stuff even though it's not really a vintage scooter. It doesn't handle or perform as well as Buddy's.

The Buddy 125 (or a 50) is ideal for someone just starting out on scooters and you don't want enough power to get in trouble. It's performance, handling, and reliability are excellent.

The 170i is for those who are comfortable on a scooter and want a little more power than the 125 can offer. It basically gets the same MPG as the 125 with a lot more goose. It's also nice to have so much power in a tiny little package.

And I wouldn't exactly call the Buddy a modern looking scooter. Modern to me looks like the rest of the scooters out there that have a swooshy look. The Buddy blends old and new well. It looks more vintage than most, but comes with all the modern conveniences.

170i FTW!!! (IMHO).

ericalm wrote:

Skootz Kabootz wrote:• if there is any significant elevation change where you ride, for the 170i it is a non-issue, for the Stella rejetting may be needed.

Not a lot of commutes have a 7,000 foot change in elevation!

Hey, I did say "significant"

What do you love and/or not love about the Buddy?
That might help folks steer you toward or away from the Stella.

BTW Reesh, I used to live in Clayton and Ladue for 12 years. What part of town are you in? Maybe moving to a place with a garage would help. There are also too many 'bad' parts of town in STL proper.

I own a house in Tower Grove South and in this market, moving is just not an option. Aside from thefts, it's a safe neighborhood and I really love it here.

This is all useful information and it sounds like the Stella won't really be for me. I am also considering a Vespa 150 (S or LX) for the added security features-- possibly even the 200 or 250 for extra speed for longer trips. I still have to check to see how it would change my insurance premium.

FYI, the Vespa S doesn't have the immobiliser like the other modern Vespas do.

Ohhh, that's good to know, thank you!

as a first time scooter, i test rode both. i had my mind on the 125 and my heart on the stella. i rode away with the 170i.

i loved the looks of the stella and love driving stickshift (enjoyed banging through the gears) but found myself too busy trying to work out the kinks when test riding the stella. to be honest, i'm sure that if i learned how to drive cars w/stick and auto, of course i'd pick auto (though i'm manual for life).

what i didn't like about the stella was that the shifting was stiff. it felt clunky and i couldn't be sure of what gear i was in unless i had to look down. though i'm sure it'd be second nature in due time, the shifter was going to continue being clunky and stiff. the salesperson also made a good point in that w/a 170i, you can focus more of your attention on the environment and surroundings; rather than thinking about what gear you need to be in.

It's like comparing apples and oranges. The new Stella is really pretty, shifts weird, has a weird balance, takes off kinda slow and is really pretty. The 170 is really pretty in green, shifts weirder than the Stella until you remember you don't have to shift it, takes off like a rocket when you stop trying to shift it and is really pretty in green. But from a practical stand point, if you ride hard for long periods of time get the Stella. If you just run around town making short trips through heavy traffic, get the 170

lmyers wrote:It's like comparing apples and oranges. The new Stella is really pretty....

I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist showing her off because she sure is pretty. But if you don't want to get a lot of attention don't get the Stella.

I have people stopping to talk to me all-the-time when I'm out and about, perhaps because folks don't see nearly as many Stellas as they do Buddy scoots around my parts, perhaps it's just because she's soooooo freekin' pretty.



But honestly, get what you feel comfortable on and feel comfortable riding; they're both outstanding bikes and you can't go wrong with either.

yep, i concur. every time i see the stella i just go crazy. yours is exceptionally handsome! love the leather. i have the green 170i but the components are as well-designed as the stella. but still, it's nice, but not stella nice. hhahahah.

churroe wrote:what i didn't like about the stella was that the shifting was stiff.

The cables need to be adjusted. Makes all the difference from a clunky/stiff shifting experience to one that is easy and smooth.

churroe wrote:yep, i concur. every time i see the stella i just go crazy. yours is exceptionally handsome! love the leather. i have the green 170i but the components are as well-designed as the stella. but still, it's nice, but not stella nice. hhahahah.

Thanks churroe, but I'll tell ya' I was looking hard at the mocha 170i when my Stella was taking so long to arrive, it just so happens that the Stalla arrived just before the 170i's started arriving. I still look hard at the 170i eveytime I go back in the shop. And my wife is now looking at getting a 50cc Pamplona which calls out to her everytime we go in the shop.

Reesh wrote:I own a house in Tower Grove South and in this market, moving is just not an option. Aside from thefts, it's a safe neighborhood and I really love it here.

If I remember correctly, most of the houses in Tower Grove South that face the park have an alley in the back. Most people put up a fence along the alley or built a garage blocking the alley from their yard. If you have one of those properties, do you have a fence in back? If not, maybe a fence with a locked gate would help prevent theft. I doubt they'd spend the time and effort to defeat the fence lock (and a scooter lock) or lift the scooter over the fence. Or maybe even a plastic shed from Costco to park it in would help keep it out of sight.

Reesh wrote: ...differences between the 170i and the Stella 4T:
The 170i is modern in appearance, the Stella is vintage.
The 170i is fuel injected, the Stella has a carburetor
The 170i is a twist n go, the Stella is a manual
etc etc...
I would like to know what others differences there may be... handling differences, feel differences, acceleration differences... My shop does not allow test rides and I'm afraid I might not enjoy the Stella after buying it, especially after riding an Italia for a year and a half.
...Thoughts are appreciated...Thanks

here's my experience with your issue:
my wife has a 125 '09 buddy and I have a 150 4T '10 stella
(I believe the 125 buddy is the same size as your possible 170i)
here's my 2 cents:

"rider to scoot" size
tall:
the stella is huge. I am 6'1" and it fits me.
when I ride the 125 buddy I am too big for it. knowing the comfort of the stella makes the buddy size unbearable for me. also funny becasue I look like a bear on a trike when I ride it.
short:
my wife is 5'4" and the buddy is perfect for her. while the stella is impossible for her. if she could ever get the Stella off the center stand without dropping it (quite difficult for short folks), she would still not be able to ride it and stop at a light safely as it is also extremely heavy. Meaning that she could not hold it steady with only one leg on the ground as it would tilt for her to do that and she needs both her feet to hold it up for balance - and anyway- for her, Stella =impossble. Buddy = perfect

another factor you should consider:
"My shop does not allow test rides"
my response: "B.S."
you can test drive a $50,000 car... why can't you test drive a $3,500 scooter? show proof of insurance (maybe) and a valid drivers license and sign a "you break it-you buy it" waiver and take each out for a spin. and get some REAL decision making feelings.
Am I alone on being shocked by this?
what, do they have a full refunds return policy?
what exactly do they expect you to do?
you can like them all you want - but an experienced scooter rider buying a scooter without a test drive is just extremely foolish.
You can do whatever you want- but, I advise you to not encourage a fool heardy dealership to continue that bad practice, by taking your business elsewhere.

Lovelandstella wrote: another factor you should consider:
"My shop does not allow test rides"
my response: "B.S."
you can test drive a $50,000 car... why can't you test drive a $3,500 scooter? show proof of insurance (maybe) and a valid drivers license and sign a "you break it-you buy it" waiver and take each out for a spin. and get some REAL decision making feelings.
Am I alone on being shocked by this?
what, do they have a full refunds return policy?
what exactly do they expect you to do?
you can like them all you want - but an experienced scooter rider buying a scooter without a test drive is just extremely foolish.
You can do whatever you want- but, I advise you to not encourage a fool heardy dealership to continue that bad practice, by taking your business elsewhere.

Only so much you can do about this one. A lot of dealerships don't allow test-rides, I had made a thread in the Blur forum about my efforts to try to find one.

Genuine Scooters of Huntington Beach specifically told me that "due to [our] location, our liability insurance is just too high."

Route 66 in Marina Del Rey is pretty similar; their location actually really really sucks for test riding. I've been riding for years and I don't like that part of the street. I can't imagine trying to navigate it when I was new to scooting, or on an unfamiliar scooter. Anyway, they don't allow it. They used to, years ago, and I've been told by a former tech there that there were a couple of accidents and it got too costly for them.

NoHo wouldn't allow a Blur test ride, but it may have been because the Blur is so new to California.

I'm in LA and am pretty lucky to have four authorized genuine dealerships within 30 miles of my location. Of those four, only one (TO Motorsports) allowed test rides, and they're really more of a motorcycle shop. Scooters are kind of a side thing there. I'd guess that most other genuine dealerships are slightly more spaced out, or at least not four places as close to each other as here.


Unless you _own_ the vehicle, all vehicles are insured by the dealership. It doesn't matter if you personally have insurance or not. I believe it's called a "garage policy" - and it covers their entire fleet. Whether the dealership does or does not allow test rides likely greatly affects their rates. It gets a little more complicated, but I believe it goes under 'excess' coverage and in effect all potential test drivers are 'insureds.' $$$


So you hit the nail on the head. $50,000 car vs $5,000 scooter is a heckuva lot of a difference. Everyone on these forums routinely says the actual sale of a scooter isn't that profitable, but that accessories are. There's also much less scooter dealerships...if a Nissan dealership didn't allow test drives, there's 10 other ones within 10 miles. Or 100 other types of dealerships. Everybody does it, it's routine.....and the selling of a car IS typically a good chunk of profit.

Scooter buying isn't as routine, and there's not as many dealerships. Couple that with the general notion that most people buying cars tend to already be familiar with them. Without any data to support it, I'd say most of us would agree that by comparison a lot more scooterists are newer to the scene, less experienced, etc.

If you want a scooter, and your dealership can't afford to or won't pay the extra money to satisfy test-ride demands, than you're out of luck.

(but hey, try your darnedest to convince them to let you take it for a spin! You may get lucky, even if it's against store policy).

Vespa Schenectady doesn't allow test-rides either.
I'm actually surprised that they even put the scooters outside during the day, because they are right on the edge of the Stockade and the ghetto.
Anyway, they still allow you to sit on the scooters and decide which one feels best for you, maybe walk it around just to get a feel for the weight of it, but that's about it.

Do keep in mind here that I am 5' 1 3/4" short.

I took a seat on the GTS 300, it was a little tall for me, I could get the balls of my feet on the ground, but I didn't feel totally stable because of the weight of the bike. So, I was offered a discount on a lower seat if I bought it. I sat on the LX 150, still a teeny bit tall for me, the weight felt more controllable, but again, I was only offered a discount on a low-pro seat if I bought it..

Before I left to go visit Griffin Motorsports (to check out the Kymcos) I was told that they (Vespa Schenectady) would be getting in a Genuine Buddy BlackJack and I was like "uhh, a what?" so I was briefly informed about Genuine, shown a couple pictures on the computer, and decided to wait until that came in to make my final choice. Two weeks later, I am sure glad that I waited! Sat on it, walked it around a bit, and it was perfect. Perfect height, perfect weight, and no need to get a low profile seat!
Since the 170i is exactly the same size, I chose to have one ordered (even though the dealer was pushing really hard for me to buy the BJ, it was a bit scratched up and I wasn't getting anything off of the "sale" MSRP $3299). For this area, with our crazy varying weather conditions and altitude changes on longer trips, a fuel injected engine just made more sense. I've been waiting for it to get here for almost a month now, and I finally got the VIN this morning, and should be picking it up tomorrow!

Anyway... while this has so far not been comparing the 170i to the Stella, I will add that I did take a seat on a Stella that was in stock AFTER I ordered my Buddy, it was gorgeous (I LOVE the cream and brown combo)... and while I drive a car with a manual transmission, I didn't want my first scoot to be manual, easier to focus on the road when you're not re-learning a standard. In size it was between the LX 150 and the GTS 300, but much less bulky, and I could definitely feel that the weight of the bike wasn't center. Also, it was much too tall for me, I was barely tip-toeing it.

I am still very happy with my decision on the 170i, and I can't wait to get it on the road! While I love the vintage look of the Stella, and the Vespas, I didn't feel like any would be a good first-scoot for me. But someday in the future when I have the money to have 4 scoots in my garage, and my car is only used for VW shows... I'm sure I will have a Stella, and a Vespa, and some old project bike.

Lovelandstella wrote:...another factor you should consider:
"My shop does not allow test rides"
my response: "B.S."
...- but an experienced scooter rider buying a scooter without a test drive just [seems] extremely foolish. ... I advise you to ...[take] your business elsewhere...

you know what... I have read these other response posts and those points are valid.
I have thought about it, and I concede. there must be dealerships out there that refuse to offer a test drive. possibly even the bulk of dealerships. for whatever reason- they never do them. well I read the reasons: Liability costs for "scooter caused Accidents" regardless of a signed waiver could be enormous and no waiver would hold up in court to keep the dealership(owner) out of that.
in response to my new change in position- I can only say: that sucks.
what a heart breaker, to think that there are people who are making scooter purchase judgements based entirely on "looks" and "sits on a parked scooter" and I guess internet/word of mouth.
My heart hurts for any one forced into that position.
it's kinda like buying a $3000 pair of jeans that you can't try on and there are no returns. easy fit?-I said kinda fit.
along those "no-test-drive" lines- there is no way to "expereince" the difference between the whole gambit from a buddy 50 all the way up to buddy 170i! it's just looks!
no wonder they actually sell non-Genuine/non-Vespa scooters these days.

@o.p. your decision will be all the more important since you can't test drive. I want to help as best I can. since we have a stella and a buddy, any other info you would like from me or from my wife, who is very happy with the buddy and who has tried to move my stella a few times ("barely-to-rarely" successfully),- please ask here or PM me and I will get what info I can to you and to all in your same position.

Is there anywhere in your town that rents scooters? Maybe you can rent a Buddy or a Stella for a day?

head out to scooter west in san diego. they definitely ENCOURAGE you to ride the scooters and take your time when making a purchase decision. for those reasons alone, they'll forever have my business.

a lot of these dealerships are bottom line first, service second; which is stupid in my opinion. the next dealer can always give you a lower price by a dollar, and who wants to compete that way? rather, the guys at scooter west just give ridiculously great service. i overheard one of them (eric) tell another customer, "we're not just trying to sell you something, we're trying to build a community of riders."

that sold me for life.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:Is there anywhere in your town that rents scooters? Maybe you can rent a Buddy or a Stella for a day?

I imagine even places that rent don't rent Stellas. There aren't enough of them around for one thing! Also, high "oops, I can't shift" crash potential/liability.

Lovelandstella wrote: the stella is huge. I am 6'1" and it fits me.
when I ride the 125 buddy I am too big for it. knowng the comfort of the stella makes the buddy size unbearable for me.

short:
my wife is 5'4" and the buddy is perfect for her. while the stella is impossible for her. if she can get the stell off the center stand without dropping it (quite difficult for short folks) she would not be able to ride it and stop at a light as it is also extremely heavy and she could not hold it steady with one leg on the ground as it would tilt for her to do that and she needs both her feet to hold it up for balance - and anyway- for her, stella =impossble. buddy = perfect

I'm not a huge guy, 5"10", but I felt the same way on the Buddy; even though it's an outstanding scooter it felt a bit small for me. When I got on the Stalla it felt just right, meaty, solid and wide.

On the flip side there is no way my wife would be able to get the Stella on the center stand, she has problems getting a Buddy on the center stand (she's a little thing and only about 100lbs). For her the Buddy is actually too large even though she loves the Pamplona, so she's been looking for a good quality scooter with a lower seat. We thought about the Honda Metro but they don't make them anymore, any suggestions? The dealer said there is a replacement seat coming out for the Buddy that is lower but I haven't seen it.

Mulliganal wrote:For her the Buddy is actually too large even though she loves the Pamplona, so she's been looking for a good quality scooter with a lower seat. We thought about the Honda Metro but they don't make them anymore, any suggestions? The dealer said there is a replacement seat coming out for the Buddy that is lower but I haven't seen it.

I'm 5'6" and actually settled on the buddy because it was smaller than other scooters I had tried. Yamahas are definitely taller (even the Vino) and my local dealer didn't have the Piaggio Fly in stock so I didn't get a chance to try that one.

I'm not convinced you can go by the seat height listed in scooter specs either. Either it's the width that makes it feel taller or something else because I've been on two different scoots that said they were .5" different, but they felt 4" different.

-Rob

Mulliganal wrote:We thought about the Honda Metro but they don't make them anymore, any suggestions?

Yamaha C3. Looks like a milk crate, but very low to the ground.

RobY wrote: I'm not convinced you can go by the seat height listed in scooter specs either. Either it's the width that makes it feel taller or something else because I've been on two different scoots that said they were .5" different, but they felt 4" different.
-Rob

Yes. A few factors:
- the width of the seat obviously, especially towards the front.
- the angle of the seat (sloped seats vs flat seats; can alter your natural riding position or comfort zone)
- the curve of the seat in the front area (not just the width - is it flat flat, or does it fade away a little for your thighs/legs to start angling down 'sooner')

Also, compression of the seat is two related factors:
1 - does it compress at all when you sit on it?
2 - will it permanently settle?

IMO, people don't often think of it this way, but to me it's like a couch. Some couches you sit on and sink into, others you bounce off of. Over time, depending on the type, you may very have it mold to you and leave a Homer Simpson style butt-imprint, hehehe.


In my experience, the listed seat heights are fine for a general idea. But all these other factors (with the obvious exception of long-term molding) make it really, really important to definitely sit on them and try it out. Cause as you said, even tiny differences in listed height are effectively much bigger when all things are taken into consideration.

Somewhere around here is a tutorial on how to lower your seat. At least I think there is. You pop the staples off, fold the vinyl back, file the foam down, then re-staple the vinyl back on.

If I may go off on a small tangent on the test ride thing:

I own Scoot Richmond. We do not allow test drives. We are happy to take you for a ride on the back of a scooter that you are considering. This is obviously not the same as actually driving the vehicle, but on the flip side it can sometimes be better than nothing.

In regards to WHY we do not offer test drives, there is more to it than the car thing. The company through which we have our garage insurance did not say "It's this much without test rides, and this much with test rides". They said "NO TEST RIDES. No matter how much money you offer us, no test rides. Period the end."

That means that not only would we not be covered in case something were to happen on a test ride, but that in the event that we did offer a test ride we could lose our insurance coverage all together.

I have a feeling that a lot of it is based in the fact that our per vehicle pricing is far lower than a car, which also means that our per vehicle deductible is VERY low. If our per vehicle deductible was $1000 and the building burned down, then we'd be reimbursed at a rate that would have us losing piles of money, times however many scooters are in the building. Therefore we have a much lower per vehicle deduction as well as a very high vehicle count.

Basically, getting insurance for a scooter shop is a huge pain in the butt. If your dealer doesn't allow test rides, don't think poorly of him/her. It's not that we don't want to. It's just that it is not even an option for us, and that sucks, and we know it, and that's all.

k1dude wrote:

Reesh wrote:I own a house in Tower Grove South and in this market, moving is just not an option. Aside from thefts, it's a safe neighborhood and I really love it here.

If I remember correctly, most of the houses in Tower Grove South that face the park have an alley in the back. Most people put up a fence along the alley or built a garage blocking the alley from their yard. If you have one of those properties, do you have a fence in back? If not, maybe a fence with a locked gate would help prevent theft. I doubt they'd spend the time and effort to defeat the fence lock (and a scooter lock) or lift the scooter over the fence. Or maybe even a plastic shed from Costco to park it in would help keep it out of sight.

You are absolutely right about the garages and fences and such-- EXCEPT on my block. A lot of my neighbors have no garage + a fence. Or a garage and no fence. Or neither. In my case, I have a beautifully fenced back yard, but there are concrete steps up from the alley into it with a small 2.5" wide gate, and a deep 10" concrete step down into it after a trip through my narrow 3" wide breezeway between my house and the neighbors. I put my buddy back there once and never did it again. Getting it out scratched my mirrors, scraped my undercarriage etc. No, I am not well equipped for scooter protection It's the front or nothing... hence the concrete parking pad with a built in anchor that I am considering.

As far as seat and pillions:
I'm 5' 10"+a little bit of ego and my wife is 5' 9". We can do 2-up on a Buddy, but it's pretty cramped for both of us. Short rides are fine.

My wife hates riding 2-up on the Stella. Plenty of room, but it's too hurky-jerky for her. I imagine I wouldn't love riding cupcake on a shifter like that with me driving it (impossible, I know, but hypothetically).

chelsea wrote:If I may go off on a small tangent on the test ride thing:

I own Scoot Richmond. We do not allow test drives. We are happy to take you for a ride on the back of a scooter that you are considering. This is obviously not the same as actually driving the vehicle, but on the flip side it can sometimes be better than nothing.

In regards to WHY we do not offer test drives, there is more to it than the car thing. The company through which we have our garage insurance did not say "It's this much without test rides, and this much with test rides". They said "NO TEST RIDES. No matter how much money you offer us, no test rides. Period the end."

That means that not only would we not be covered in case something were to happen on a test ride, but that in the event that we did offer a test ride we could lose our insurance coverage all together.

I have a feeling that a lot of it is based in the fact that our per vehicle pricing is far lower than a car, which also means that our per vehicle deductible is VERY low. If our per vehicle deductible was $1000 and the building burned down, then we'd be reimbursed at a rate that would have us losing piles of money, times however many scooters are in the building. Therefore we have a much lower per vehicle deduction as well as a very high vehicle count.

Basically, getting insurance for a scooter shop is a huge pain in the butt. If your dealer doesn't allow test rides, don't think poorly of him/her. It's not that we don't want to. It's just that it is not even an option for us, and that sucks, and we know it, and that's all.

Thanks for this, Chelsea!

My local dealership allows test rides, maybe it's because they are also a Harley dealership, so their "average" vehicle costs quite a bit more and the insurance is easier. Anyway, If anyone is ever looking for one where they can test out some Genuine scoots (in So Cal) let me know. M1 required of course.

ericalm wrote: My wife hates riding 2-up on the Stella. Plenty of room, but it's too hurky-jerky for her. I imagine I wouldn't love riding cupcake on a shifter like that with me driving it (impossible, I know, but hypothetically).

Funny, the only problem my wife has with riding cupcake on my stella is where to put her feet. She hates the foot rests that come with the cowl protector and tries to put her feet on the sides of the cowl protectors. She's a bit too short to reach the floor boards, being about 5' 2", so I'm trying to come up with something that will make her comfortable.

Mulliganal wrote: ...she has problems getting a Buddy on the center stand (she's a little thing and only about 100lbs). For her the Buddy is actually too large even though she loves the Pamplona, so she's been looking for a good quality scooter with a lower seat. We thought about the Honda Metro but they don't make them anymore, any suggestions? The dealer said there is a replacement seat coming out for the Buddy that is lower but I haven't seen it.

Really, the Buddy is the perfect scooter for your wife. I see from your subsequent post that she's 5'2". What I would give to be a towering 5'2! I'm 4'10" and I ride a Buddy. I use platform boots for normal riding but I can, if I choose, ride in regular shoes. I'm just on my tippy toes if I do that. If I were 5'2" I'd have no issues whatsoever. Maybe she hasn't sat in the correct spot when she's tried it out? She really needs to try it all the way forward and not get hung up on whether she can get both feet flat on the ground. That's really not at all necessary. Just think, if the kickstand can hold the scooter up, then there's no reason that a single toe on the ground can't do the same. As for centerstanding, that's just a matter of practice. I also tip the scales at just about 100 lbs and I can center stand my Buddy with almost no effort at all. Seriously. My weight is enough to leverage it onto the stand. That stand has a great lever! I would highly encourage you and your wife to reconsider whether a Buddy is too big.

Mulliganal wrote:For her the Buddy is actually too large even though she loves the Pamplona, so she's been looking for a good quality scooter with a lower seat. We thought about the Honda Metro but they don't make them anymore, any suggestions? The dealer said there is a replacement seat coming out for the Buddy that is lower but I haven't seen it.

The only other quality scooter I can suggest with a low seating position is the Yamaha Vino 125. I would not suggest a Honda Metro. They have so little power she really could not ride with you. My wife is about 5'3" and does fine on a Buddy. How tall is your wife?

Dooglas wrote:

Mulliganal wrote:For her the Buddy is actually too large even though she loves the Pamplona, so she's been looking for a good quality scooter with a lower seat. We thought about the Honda Metro but they don't make them anymore, any suggestions? The dealer said there is a replacement seat coming out for the Buddy that is lower but I haven't seen it.

The only other quality scooter I can suggest with a low seating position is the Yamaha Vino 125. I would not suggest a Honda Metro. They have so little power she really could not ride with you. My wife is about 5'3" and does fine on a Buddy. How tall is your wife?

I think you and pdxrita have made great points. My wife says she's 5'3" but I think that additional 1" is all hair . She does need to give it more of a try and I think she'll find she can get it on center with a bit of practice.

I had a hard time getting my Stella on its center stand but after a few weeks of practice (and purchasing a new stand with a little leverage foot) it's a breeze.

She really likes the Buddy so I think that's what she'll eventually get; especially since our Genuine dealer is about two miles away.

Mulliganal wrote:I think you and pdxrita have made great points. My wife says she's 5'3" but I think that additional 1" is all hair .

Hey, that extra inch of hair might be all that's needed to make this work!

Mulliganal wrote:She does need to give it more of a try and I think she'll find she can get it on center with a bit of practice.

I had a hard time getting my Stella on its center stand but after a few weeks of practice (and purchasing a new stand with a little leverage foot) it's a breeze.

She really likes the Buddy so I think that's what she'll eventually get; especially since our Genuine dealer is about two miles away.

I really can't stress enough how easy it is to centerstand the Buddy. She's not trying to do it while seated, is she? Here's how I do it: Grab the handlebar with your left hand and the rear rack with your right hand. Put your right foot on the centerstand and push down until you make contact with the ground and then pull the bike backwards while still pushing with your foot. It pops right up! In contrast, I've put my partner's People 150 on the stand and that takes a lot of strength for me. I can barely do it. So I'm not some kind of 4'10" incredible hulk (though I do ride a green scooter ).

I would add that getting the Buddy cowl bars makes it ultra-easy to centerstand it - just a little upward tug as you step on the stand, and up she goes.

I honestly don't think that putting a scooter on it's center stand is a matter of height - it is a matter of technique. Light weight requires good technique, of course, as you can't count on brute force. Now balancing the bike while sitting on the seat is certainly partially a matter of height, but that is a different discussion. Lots of past threads and some good videos on putting a scooter on it's center stand.

Wow, what a great thread.


I drive a manual car, and since it's in a major metro area (and Denver has only 2 major routes because we started really small...) the shifting gets very tiresome. Also, most of the riding around here is 5200 to 7k feet, so fuel injection makes much more sense to me. The stellas are beauties for sure, but I like the simple, fun, and dependable nature of the Buddy scoots. When finances allow I WILL pick up a 170i. Just hope they don't do what they've done with all the other fun ones I like; stop making them right before I buy.

For security I park in a lot that's 2 house lots over. The landlords own it, and htere's nothing on it. There's a tiny fence with a locking gate, but it wouldn't stop most thieves. it's always wheel locked and chained to the metal fence with a huge kryptonite lock, so I've done all I can to deter them.

skully93 wrote:Wow, what a great thread.


I drive a manual car, and since it's in a major metro area (and Denver has only 2 major routes because we started really small...) the shifting gets very tiresome. Also, most of the riding around here is 5200 to 7k feet, so fuel injection makes much more sense to me. The stellas are beauties for sure, but I like the simple, fun, and dependable nature of the Buddy scoots. When finances allow I WILL pick up a 170i. Just hope they don't do what they've done with all the other fun ones I like; stop making them right before I buy.

For security I park in a lot that's 2 house lots over. The landlords own it, and htere's nothing on it. There's a tiny fence with a locking gate, but it wouldn't stop most thieves. it's always wheel locked and chained to the metal fence with a huge kryptonite lock, so I've done all I can to deter them.

I gave up on driving manual cars in LA due to traffic, hills, parking on hills, and wearing out several clutches.

Yet when I got the Stella, it quickly became my vehicle of choice for commuting to work. Some of it was the newness, but several thousand miles later, I was still riding the Stella!

The shifting can become tiresome when I do full-day rides up in the hills and twisties. But for my 12-mile (each way) commute, it's just more fun on the way to/from work.

My girlfriend is 5'4", and when she took my Vespa ET2 50cc for a drive, she had trouble getting it on and off its center stand. Of course she was wearing flip-flops at the time...

So when it came time to get a California scooter, living in SF, the Buddy 170i seemed like the perfect choice. It's significantly lighter/smaller/lower than the Vespa. And in addition to the center stand, it has a kickstand...so if the center stand is too hard... Oh, and it is ZIPPY as heck. And very easy to drive. And cute. And lots of storage. And by all reports, reliable and cheap to fix. (So far, it's running awesome.)

We still don't know what it's like for her to drive, because we're still waiting for her to get her M license (necessary for 170cc in California, unnecessary for 49cc in Massachusetts).

I am 5'10" male. Average size, except for my feet, which are size 13...which is actually relevant, because my feet literally do not fit flat on the floorboard of the Buddy. Either I have to hang my toes out, or I have to slope them up towards the glovebox. At first, this bothered me, but I've gotten used to it.

Have taken it in the twisties a bit. The tiny wheels make for awesome low-speed maneuvering, good mid-speed stability, and somewhat nervous higher speed (above 50mph). It doesn't settle in at high speeds the way my Ninja 500 does (duh). Something (center stand?) scrapes at relatively mild lean angles to the left. Of course, I do get some secret satisfaction out of scraping something in a turn. . Even scraped riding two-up.

We have ridden it two-up (me + girlfriend + laptops, handbags, etc. under seat and in top case) commuting over the Golden Gate Bridge, up to 60mph or so (actual), occasionally at night, occasionally in the rain, occasionally with high winds. I can't exactly recommend any of this. While I was never in fear for my life, I believe she might have been. Going more than 5 or 10 minutes on the highway is not ideal, from a comfort point of view...and having more than about 200 lbs. of human + cargo limits your ability to hold highway speeds up hills. And your only way out of trouble on the highway is to slow down...speeding is not a real option. And riding two-up, there isn't quite enough room for everyone's feet/hips/heads. The Vespa ET is noticeably bigger and more comfortable in this regard. Buddy's suspension does not seem to be set up for two-up on bad roads.

For Bay Area people: Golden Gate Bridge, from Sausalito into the city, is okay, and other quick jaunts on flat parts of 101 are okay; Bay Bridge is suboptimal, I80 and connectors are not fun, and I have no intention of trying 280.

Having said all of this...I love LOVE driving the Buddy. It is perfect for zipping around Marin and/or San Francisco. It's faster than most of the cars out there...partly because it's so tempting to crank it at full throttle, and most car drivers don't make a habit of full throttle takeoffs. For cutting up traffic, up to 50mph or something, it's pretty hard to imagine a better tool. Definitely fast enough to have some fun. I can imagine having similar fun with it in Boston, NYC, London, Paris...surface streets in almost any city or country roads (not interstates, M-roads, autoroutes, whatever you want to call them). The front end gets light when I nail it...I'm thinking wheelies might not be out of the question...and the brakes do everything that's asked of them, even on hilly SF streets with 300+ pounds of people and stuff on board.

Parking it is about as easy as it gets.

Cumulative MPG: 67.5 (including lots of full throttle work).

Starts the first time, every time.

Would I buy it again? For girlfriend, for city use, without a doubt. If I had known we would be commuting across the Golden Gate Bridge, maybe. Or maybe something more powerful. A small 500cc scooter like a Kymco or Aprilia has an obvious appeal...

I have a 500cc motorcycle for myself now. On the highway, the motorcycle is altogether more confidence-inspiring; in the city, I definitely prefer the Buddy; and on low- to mid-speed back roads, with or without a passenger, I have to say, the Buddy really is more fun (and less demanding).

Hope this post is helpful to someone!

PS The top speed I've seen: an indicated 79mph (just me, downhill, on the highway, in a full tuck). I'll check this against my GPS some time.

(I should look at the tires and see what they're rated for before I try that again...)

Hi there.

I've read this thread. Been researching my head off. Really appreciate this forum!

I'm about to buy my first scooter. Mental process going like this: Loved Vespa but didn't want to spend that much $ on a new scooter. Found a rebuilt vintage Vespa but feared reliability and maintenance (I'm the least handy person you'll ever find). Discovered Genuine and was smitten the Stella 4T. Wanted something very safe and reliable. Starting to think about the Buddy 170.

Living in a city and being new to scootering, the manual shifting is intimidating to me. Funny as I drive a manual VW 2010 GTI. I'm fine with driving a "performance" manual car in the city and have driven manual cars since I got my license. I've seen video of shifting Stella's and as I've read also. Seems a little jerky to me. I've also read shifting can be distracting for new riders. I've also read about warm up time, adjustments, etc. on the Stella's and as this new scooter will be for commuting half the week, I want something easy to just get on and go with.

I'm 6'0", 180lbs. The size and weight of the Stella felt good to me. The Buddy 170 a little lighter but ok. I have not test driven either. My commute is 5 miles each way with about 10 traffic lights and 5 stop signs along the route. On occasion I'd like to take my daughter with me to school (longer ride) so need the bike to be big enough and safe enough for that as well.

All that being said, and after all I've read, I'm still wondering if I go the route of the 170, will I become bored driving it and lust after the Stella in short order or will I just enjoy the experience of the ride and focus less on the bike, especially if it's reliable and safe and I never have to worry about it.

Thanks for your thoughts.