Modern Buddy

Hello all, I'm new to riding (3 months) and enjoying every minute I'm out. But I've noticed more and more lately that there are some drivers out there who will cut me off (on purpose or not) probably because I'm going at or a little above speed limit. Just not fast enough, I guess. My question is this... other than honking and cursing out the driver, what do you do to keep your cool preventing you from riding up next to the car and choking the stupidity out of the driver?

btw... LA drivers suck. I should know, I'm sometimes one of them.

This may sound wierd, but everyday for 14 years I carried a firearm for work... THAT amount of responsibility makes you stay calm. And, I guess I just learned to deal with my temper.

Besides, if you pull up next to them at the next light, and VERY calm and business like ask them if they even saw you when they did that. It has more of an effect

When I'm in my car I go at or up to 3 mph over the speed limit, but when I'm on my scooter I go at least 5 mph over (10 indicated--so if the speed limit is 35, I go 45). Sometimes I even go 10 over...depending on what the speed limit is, of course.

Reason being that they will typically be on your butt if you go at or slightly over the speed limit...most people apparently have no concept that if they hit you, you're likely dead or severley injured. Some people will feel they need to get in front of you no matter how fast you go...not sure exactly what is up with that... I just let them do their little thing. No point it getting mad, as they have a ton or so of metal on their side.

I wear a full faced (modular) helmet, so I can vent all I want, at the top of my lungs while I am riding and no one ever has to know...sometimes it even feels good.

michelle_7728 wrote:I wear a full faced (modular) helmet, so I can vent all I want, at the top of my lungs while I am riding and no one ever has to know...sometimes it even feels good.

yes! my full face helmet with mirrored shield definitely helps with stress venting

Yeah, I wear a full face ,too. And its nice to use a few choice words to let it out. LOL

Sometimes, I give a short beep, and wave excitedly, like I know them. I'll even tilt my head a bit too, just to emphasize the fun. I don't do it for them, but if you make yourself smile sometimes you might even believe it. I've even gotten an apologetic wave back, rarely.

Other times I just give 'em the finger.

In what part of LA do you drive. I've been fortunate enough to not have any significant amount of people cut me off.

Usually if the car behind me wants to go faster than me they merge on to the other lane and go way way far up ahead before even deciding to merge back to my lane so no real cutting off.

If i notice a car that obviously wants to get ahead of me, I tend to move (inside my lane) a little to the side it wants to pass me on and then move towards the center slowly once they start getting next to me , that way they take note to get further ahead before merging back into my lane. I hope that made sense. I don't know if its the safest thing to do but it's worked so far.

When I do encounter a stupid driver I just shrug it off (easier said than done), and remind myself to just focus on the immediate situation to stay safe.

inspyre5 wrote:btw... LA drivers suck. I should know, I'm sometimes one of them.

Yup. I can't support this with actual, you know, facts, but it very much seems like drivers everywhere are getting worse and they were pretty bad here to begin with.

I've really had to learn to curtail the road rage because invariably someone would piss me off and my reaction would be to honk, maybe yell, then ride like a complete idiot for the next few minutes. Not good at all.

We recently had a member crash because of his reaction to an errant driver:
viewtopic.php?t=635&start=1200#252864

I still honk because it's sometimes the only way to keep someone out of my lane. Had to let go of the anger. Also, it became more and more frequent and was starting to ruin my once-enjoyable scooter commute.

I don't let things like that get me bothered, unless they hit me. Why ruin my day worrying about someone else who has a patience problem? I guess I've learned not to take most things personally or too seriously.

How do I keep my cool... avoid driving during rush hour whenever possible, plan fun routes that avoid main thoroughfares, allow plenty of time to get where I'm going so I am not rushed (I fail at this one most often), I rock some awesome scootin' tunes while I ride, cars tend to travel in clusters so I try to ride in the space between the clusters rather than amongst the cars, I assume that I am invisible and cagers are at best a semi-conscious breed so I anticipate accordingly...

All this is well and good but inevitably one will come across some lame beyond lame, dangerous, half-wit, behind the wheel of a car who nearly kills you. At this point I try to remember that no matter who is actually in the right or wrong, the 2-wheel vehicle always loses. It doesn't matter. 2-wheels goes down and maybe dies. The cage gets a little dent. I've had psychopaths look right at me then deliberately try to run me off the road. It doesn't matter that I'm in the right, staying alive is all that matters. I've seen drivers, clearly in the wrong, take out guns when confronted about what pathetic jerks they are. They are clueless. There are all kinds of crazy out there. I'd rather be alive to tell stories about what asses they are. So I just back off and enjoy the ride.

Not to sound too above it all, there are also those days when I know I am short tempered and ripe to explode. I try to avoid riding when I'm in those moods as it is just asking for trouble.

think about how much gas they are wasting as they pass you and how much you are saving b/c of their pride to choose that fast gas consumer.

Let it go. Not worth losing your focus and getting into an accident.

inspyre5 wrote:My question is this... other than honking and cursing out the driver, what do you do to keep your cool preventing you from riding up next to the car and choking the stupidity out of the driver?

I get them back by allowing them to continue being @ssholes and not letting them rain on my parade.

I've played golf with folks that get so pissed off they start throwing clubs and cursing, not me; that negates the whole reason I play golf and giving these drivers too much attention would do the same for my scootering.

I'll never allow these folks to dampen the enjoyment I’m having in life; I'll just let them continue to be angry bitter @ssholes and on occasion I’ll give them the nod when we meet down the road at the next red light.

Thanks for the great advice all.

Riding, for the most part, has been an experience where I focus so much on the ride itself that other worries/issues at work, home or elsewhere are not in mind. You're so tuned to having a safe and enjoyable trip that when some jackass messes it up by doing something stupid... it takes a minute or two to get back into that state. Music in an ear has also helped make trips more enjoyable.

For those familiar with the area, I ride back and forth from Van Nuys to Glendale for work (around 13 miles one way) all city streets. I love that I start work early in the day. The roads are wide open at 6am. I just have to deal with the bulk of cars when I go home.

ericalm wrote:
We recently had a member crash because of his reaction to an errant driver:
viewtopic.php?t=635&start=1200#252864

I still honk because it's sometimes the only way to keep someone out of my lane. Had to let go of the anger. Also, it became more and more frequent and was starting to ruin my once-enjoyable scooter commute.

Hey, that's me

Also, great question, Inspyre!

It really wasn't worth the TOTAL AND UTTER EMBARRASSMENT laying down my bike (and flipping head over heels into a bush) for the angry reaction. Take me as an example - if you loose it, especially as a new driver, you exponentially raise your risk of crashing/injury/death.

My father always said the best way to deal with an angry driver was to put on a big smile and wave excitedly to them... You won't get any more upset but chances are it might just piss them off more. My sister quotes the bible and tells them that Jesus loves them! I apparently just get pissed and drive into random things.

If I ever get that aggravated again, I will just pull over at the next opportunity to distance myself from the annoyance and to take a few deep breaths (good thoughts in ... bad thoughts out).

Skootz Kabootz wrote:How do I keep my cool... avoid driving during rush hour whenever possible

This is a big one if you can do it. Sure, there are bad/inattentive drivers at other times, but there are fewer of them and less traffic overall. Many seem to be in an extra hurry to get out of traffic by making it worse for everyone else. On congested streets, things can get pretty hairy as you lose a lot of your ability to evade others.

inspyre5 wrote:For those familiar with the area, I ride back and forth from Van Nuys to Glendale for work (around 13 miles one way) all city streets. I love that I start work early in the day. The roads are wide open at 6am. I just have to deal with the bulk of cars when I go home.

Out of curiosity, what route do you take?
I love riding early in the morning. Between 4am-7am is like a magic time, when the streets seem most empty.

When I was commuting downtown, I'd ride through Griffith Park every morning. If it was early, I'd go by and see the coyotes hanging out at the bottom of the hills. It was this great scenic and calming ride between the bustles of the Valley and the East side.

Of course, my most recent crash was IN Griffith Park, riding home from jury duty. During rush hour.

Road rage on any two-wheeled conveyance is folly. No matter how well-armed you are, or how mad you are, on a scooter or motorcycle you will lose. Basic physics. 3,000 pound car vs. bike, car wins every time.

See and avoid - the mantra of the VFR-pilot - is the only practical way to approach it.

Here's another thing in the "what I did to chill out" department. I've a friend, Manfred, who rides a pair of early '60s Vespa VBs. One has a P200 engine in it. They're both slow as hell. Yet Manfred spends many weeks of the year out traveling on these scoots, riding all over the state, Death Valley, wherever, rarely at more than 45mph. They break down, he fixes them. Patience is required.

He mentioned to me one day that my riding style is, um, "rather aggressive." At first I thought, "No, you're just slow!" But after some reflection, I realized he was right. Even when obeying the (CA) laws, I was often riding pretty hard. Most of the time, I was riding too fast, often as fast as I thought I could get away with. This greatly increases the odds of getting into a bad situation with a car, decreases my ability to escape that situation and adds to my personal tension and stress levels.

"Woosah," as they say in Bad Boys II. I had to find my calm and really remember to enjoy the ride, just being out on a scooter. This has helped immensely.

I have a "duck philosophy"
I let it roll off of me like "water on a duck's back"
Does me no good to ride pissed off, I only put myself in danger.

ericalm wrote: Out of curiosity, what route do you take?
I love riding early in the morning. Between 4am-7am is like a magic time, when the streets seem most empty.

Magic time indeed. Especially as the sun is just starting to rise. I mainly stick to Roscoe Blvd and that leads me to San Fernando Rd which brings me all the way to Glendale.

On my way home, I'm on Glenoaks back to Roscoe (via Tuxford/La Tuna Cyn). I am also very close to Griffith Park and sometimes go through there just to get away from cars in general. (yikes.. I have to see your story on your crash in Griffith. sorry to hear )

Riding in Phoenix is similar to riding in LA (we get alot of your drivers anyways:P) except it's not as dense, but alot faster speed. For me, it's more a matter of maneuvering around and then getting AWAY from the idiot! The more distance and cars I put between myself and the ignorant dumbass driver, the safer I am and the more bodies in between me and the idiot that can take the hit for me. Kind of self-serving, but when you're on a 300-ish lb bike, you have to think about #1 first.

Getting aggro is 99% a bad idea. Granted, some people DO deserve a beat down 1% of the time, but usually it's not worth it. Save the explosive rage for the time it REALLY does some good, since most of the time it just makes things worse in traffic.

And, from my experience driving a Taxi when I was "downsized" a few years ago, I can honestly say that carrying a firearm at work DOES teach you to be more mellow. It's strange, but if you are logical about the fact you have ten times more legal risk the moment you carry a firearm, you start realizing how much the petty stuff isn't worth losing it over. You start realizing that aggression isn't always a useful tool, and many times the moron behind the other wheel is so brain-damaged and ignorant that no amount of screaming, "teaching" or berating is going to do anything productive.

Long story short: Invest in performance parts, ride conservatively and be ready to punch it and lane split to ditch the insane douchebags who constantly try to kill 2-wheelers. Maneuverability and speed (well, for some of us) is the advantage we have. Otherwise, it's not much a fair fight against cagers. Better to avoid the fight than to start it.

ericalm wrote:Here's another thing in the "what I did to chill out" department. I've a friend, Manfred, who rides a pair of early '60s Vespa VBs. One has a P200 engine in it. They're both slow as hell. Yet Manfred spends many weeks of the year out traveling on these scoots, riding all over the state, Death Valley, wherever, rarely at more than 45mph. They break down, he fixes them. Patience is required.

I've traveled from my house to Pictured Rocks at 70mph and at 35mph. Whole different experience, with a whole different attitude.

I spent two and a half years on a Honda Metro. When speed is the limiting factor, you learn a lot about patience and keeping your cool.

Atlanta drivers are amazingly clueless to what's going on around them. I have taken the Zen Buddha Bear approach, and just accepted the fact that people will unknowingly try to kill me almost everyday.

Coffeejunkie wrote:Atlanta drivers are amazingly clueless to what's going on around them. I have taken the Zen Buddha Bear approach, and just accepted the fact that people will unknowingly try to kill me almost everyday.

It's amazing how so many Atlantans differ on so many issues, religion, politics etc etc etc, but I have yet to hear anyone disagree on the state of mind of many Atlanta drivers; as you said, some are totally clueless.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:How do I keep my cool... avoid driving during rush hour whenever possible, plan fun routes that avoid main thoroughfares, allow plenty of time to get where I'm going so I am not rushed (I fail at this one most often), I rock some awesome scootin' tunes while I ride, cars tend to travel in clusters so I try to ride in the space between the clusters rather than amongst the cars, I assume that I am invisible and cagers are at best a semi-conscious breed so I anticipate accordingly...
All this is well and good but inevitably one will come across some lame beyond lame, dangerous, half-wit, behind the wheel of a car who nearly kills you. At this point I try to remember that no matter who is actually in the right or wrong, the 2-wheel vehicle always loses. It doesn't matter. 2-wheels goes down and maybe dies. The cage gets a little dent. I've had psychopaths look right at me then deliberately try to run me off the road. It doesn't matter that I'm in the right, staying alive is all that matters. I've seen drivers, clearly in the wrong, take out guns when confronted about what pathetic jerks they are. They are clueless. There are all kinds of crazy out there. I'd rather be alive to tell stories about what asses they are. So I just back off and enjoy the ride.

Not to sound too above it all, there are also those days when I know I am short tempered and ripe to explode. I try to avoid riding when I'm in those moods as it is just asking for trouble.

Ditto. plus i meditate daily, keeps me relax.
Not while i ride of course!

You want to deal with a REALLY inconsiderate driver? Look for a bicyclist.

Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here. Their "greener than thou" attitude seems to empower them with the authority to ignore Stop signs, traffic signals, and other traffic's rights of way.

I almost want to puke when I see one of those "Share the Road" bumper stickers with a picture of a bicycle. The ones who don't share the road are the bicyclists more so than the non-human powered vehicles.

BTW, I ride my bicycle all over as well. But I stop at Stop signs and yield to traffic when I don't have the right of way. I figure if I want to get respect, I have to grant it as well.

When I'm riding my moped or scooter and am disrespected by a bicyclist, I'm sure to let him or her know how I feel about it. Once when a bicyclist cut off a car and I (on my moped), I decided to pass him and ride just about ten feet in front, spewing two-stroke exhaust into his face for a mile.

That dude was pissed. And I laughed all the way home.

Mulliganal wrote:

Coffeejunkie wrote:Atlanta drivers are amazingly clueless to what's going on around them. I have taken the Zen Buddha Bear approach, and just accepted the fact that people will unknowingly try to kill me almost everyday.

It's amazing how so many Atlantans differ on so many issues, religion, politics etc etc etc, but I have yet to hear anyone disagree on the state of mind of many Atlanta drivers; as you said, some are totally clueless.

Hah! "Bad Driving. Uniting the masses since... well the first car."

jd wrote:You want to deal with a REALLY inconsiderate driver? Look for a bicyclist.

Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here. Their "greener than thou" attitude seems to empower them with the authority to ignore Stop signs, traffic signals, and other traffic's rights of way.

I almost want to puke when I see one of those "Share the Road" bumper stickers with a picture of a bicycle. The ones who don't share the road are the bicyclists more so than the non-human powered vehicles.

BTW, I ride my bicycle all over as well. But I stop at Stop signs and yield to traffic when I don't have the right of way. I figure if I want to get respect, I have to grant it as well.

When I'm riding my moped or scooter and am disrespected by a bicyclist, I'm sure to let him or her know how I feel about it. Once when a bicyclist cut off a car and I (on my moped), I decided to pass him and ride just about ten feet in front, spewing two-stroke exhaust into his face for a mile.

That dude was pissed. And I laughed all the way home.

I can't agree with this any harder than I am right now!!! You are SO correct!! I work around ASU, and drive through it to get to the other College I go to, and I cannot tell you how many bicyclists I encounter that make the cell-phone chattering Soccer Mom in her Escalade look like a presidential escort driver. The "semi-pro" cyclists have the highest ratio of douchebaggery that I have encountered. I'm sure there are very respectful, nice cyclists who are VERY serious about their sport... but I have yet to meet them.

Oh, I have met the "other" kind: The ones who think they're better than you because they spent $6,000 on a bit of carbon fiber without a motor and insist you are everything wrong with traffic, society and the environment. They blast through lights, make CRAZY cross-intersection turns and ride outside of their lane constantly. If a car did a quarter of what these guys do, the police would have them in cuffs and their ride on the back of a wrecker!

I recently had one guy pull this on me while I was driving the wife's cage (Suzuki Vitara; not a particularly huge car and one of the smallest SUV's on the market. About the length of a 4 door Accent and about twice as tall) and a "semi-pro" cyclist with his spandex outfit, custom moisture wicking EL-wire lit up jersey and fancy bike cleared 4 lanes of traffic, cutting off the TRAIN and swooped in front of me as I was driving through a green light to turn on the same street. I leaned on the horn, and he slowed down to flip me off and yelled "RESPECT THE ROAD ASSHOLE". Then, here's the f'ed up part: He slows down and constantly swerves in FRONT of me randomly, trying to FORCE me to hit him, while laughing the entire time! He's riding in the center of the road swerving and shouting "Do it asshole! Your kind WANTS to run us over!".



I just did a U-turn and went the other way. I'm sure he thought he "won", but he was off his rocker enough that I didn't want that kind of nightmare. This guy was seriously malfunctioning, and I didn't want to be the guy to give him his Kirk-Douglas-a-la-"Falling Down" moment. Probably for the better... this dude was off enough that it was legitimately scary.

The only other one that seriously irritated me was a similiar cyclist doing the same thing, but I was on my Stella a few years ago. I shouted at him to signal and watch the red lights, and he said "You have no right to tell me shit. We have rights. Recycle that POS and shut it".

I wasn't so graceful that time. Let's just say he won't be swerving out of his lane much again. I may of needed a new mirror, but it felt SO good at 45mph. (Don't worry, it was just the mirror. Wouldn't want to hurt the rest of the scooter)

Don't do that btw... this was years ago and I was having a REAL bad day. Kinda feel bad about it...sorta.

jd wrote:Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here.

No we are not.

Look, I know there are some bicyclists who think that the rules of the road don't apply to them, and those are the ones you notice. But saying that all of us – or even most of us – are like that is simply unfair and untrue.

When I'm riding my moped or scooter and am disrespected by a bicyclist, I'm sure to let him or her know how I feel about it. Once when a bicyclist cut off a car and I (on my moped), I decided to pass him and ride just about ten feet in front, spewing two-stroke exhaust into his face for a mile.

You might want to go back and read the rest of this discussion, which is about not engaging other people in petty bullshit on the road. Just because you're "bigger" than the other vehicle (for once) doesn't make it a good idea.

neotrotsky wrote:I'm sure there are very respectful, nice cyclists who are VERY serious about their sport... but I have yet to meet them.

Yes you have. You're just too wrapped up in your prejudices to know it.

Oh, and bicycling isn't a "sport"; it's a form of transportation. Kind of like riding a scooter.

My rule is this: never lose your cool. It only increases the chance that you will wind up hurt or in trouble. Practically speaking, you get nothing for escalating the situation.

Also, a raging scooterist looks silly. Scooters don't have the scary bad-ass element of a motorcycle, so you get laughed at harder.

Just spite the fools by riding on and enjoying your day. frak 'em!

jd wrote:You want to deal with a REALLY inconsiderate driver? Look for a bicyclist.

Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here. Their "greener than thou" attitude seems to empower them with the authority to ignore Stop signs, traffic signals, and other traffic's rights of way.

I almost want to puke when I see one of those "Share the Road" bumper stickers with a picture of a bicycle. The ones who don't share the road are the bicyclists more so than the non-human powered vehicles.

Wow, I'm guessing you have a very different group of cyclist where you live than where I live. Here in the Atlanta area we have very large cycling communities and they often ride in groups and are very respectful.

You don't see too many young 'fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants' disrespectful type folks riding carelessly in my area; mostly you'll see guys on very high-end bikes that try to stay clear of anything or anyone that may destroy their $4,000+ investment.

Here we go again, grouping all cyclist into one nice little package...
I guess "ALL" scooterists are anti bicyle then, based on the comments of a few people on this forum. Wait no it's not all scooterist just the ones that ride buddies...
"All buddy riders think bikes have no right to the road, and that all cyclist are wanna be semi-pro d - bags."
Sounds kinda silly doesn't it?

Wait I only have like 3k sunk into my bikes, so maybe I'm okay cause my scooter and my car are still worth more than my road bike or my chopped single speed. So i can't be a d-bag right?
No sponsors on my jersey's so i can't be a d-bag right?
I'm a "reformed" bike messenger so I can't be a d-bag right?

I'm on a forum with people like Jason, TVB, or even Eric, so I am most certainly not a d-bag, because those guys seem like stand up people on the intertubes, that try not to make blanket statements about entire groups of people. Oh yeah I think they ride bicycles...so nevermind they must b d-bags too....

What's funny (not haha funny, you understand) is that everything we as scooterists say about bicyclists (or squids, or pedestrians, or SUV drivers, or 'cagers' in general), they are saying about us. I've run stoplights on my bike. I've rolled through stop signs on my scoot, I've sped in my truck, I've changed lanes without signaling on all of them. So have you. So has every last one of us.

What was the question?

There was another thread that digressed into the whole bicyclist love/hate thing. It was locked. Ruined what had been a great thread. Hope that doesn't happen here...

How about we get back on topic.

scootavaran wrote: Ditto. plus i meditate daily, keeps me relax.
Not while i ride of course!

Me too, AND I do while I ride! Mindfulness meditation is a great thing while you ride. Instead of trying to stay with your breath- stay with your ride and try to think of nothing else. You'll still drift off with things, but just keep coming back to the ride and what you're doing now. A guy from the group I sit with suggested that to me, I think it's good advice even if you don't think of it as meditation: Be focused on the ride, the road and those around you, not on the anger when someone cuts you off, or work, or something funny that happened today.

Coffeejunkie wrote:Atlanta drivers are amazingly clueless to what's going on around them. I have taken the Zen Buddha Bear approach, and just accepted the fact that people will unknowingly try to kill me almost everyday.

yep! i say the phrase "nice turn signal, bouchedag" in my head at least 3 times a day.

i will say that at a 4-way stop, more often than not i have people that have the right of way give ME the right of way. then again, i live in the Little 5 Points area, where there are more people scooting and aware of scooters.

Doesn't really matter what you ride, scooter bike, motorcycle, suv or a truck.
Road rage is still road rage. just gotta learn to calm down.

jd wrote:You want to deal with a REALLY inconsiderate driver? Look for a bicyclist.

Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here. Their "greener than thou" attitude seems to empower them with the authority to ignore Stop signs, traffic signals, and other traffic's rights of way.

I almost want to puke when I see one of those "Share the Road" bumper stickers with a picture of a bicycle. The ones who don't share the road are the bicyclists more so than the non-human powered vehicles.

BTW, I ride my bicycle all over as well. But I stop at Stop signs and yield to traffic when I don't have the right of way. I figure if I want to get respect, I have to grant it as well.

When I'm riding my moped or scooter and am disrespected by a bicyclist, I'm sure to let him or her know how I feel about it. Once when a bicyclist cut off a car and I (on my moped), I decided to pass him and ride just about ten feet in front, spewing two-stroke exhaust into his face for a mile.

That dude was pissed. And I laughed all the way home.

Wow dude, take it easy. You have some serious animosity issues going on. Every mode of transportation has asshole aggressive drivers, but in all honesty, I'd rather have a city full of aggressive cyclists over aggressive soccer moms. Think about it, what would you rather collide with? Which is more likely to kill you? I can honestly understand some of the reasoning why cyclists are aggressive and hostile. It sucks to be at the bottom of the priority list when it comes to transportation planning. Cars are always treated as #1, and even building bike lane is useless when it's consistently blocked by delivery trucks or double parkers. Even when I follow the "rules of the road" and obey the traffic laws on my bike, I still have people try to run me off the road, throw shit at me, and yell at me to "get off the road". The cops don't do shit, so of course we have to take matters into our own hands sometimes. And we don't need douchebags yelling at us to use turn signals and when we need to stop. It's no wonder that the bicycle haters on MB come from Detroit and Phoenix. Wow, those cities are on the cutting edge of urban sustainability. Give me a break.

TVB wrote:Oh, and bicycling isn't a "sport"; it's a form of transportation. Kind of like riding a scooter.

+1. A common misconception amongst imbiciles. Bicycles aren't just exercise equipment or toys.

jd wrote:You want to deal with a REALLY inconsiderate driver? Look for a bicyclist.

Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here. Their "greener than thou" attitude seems to empower them with the authority to ignore Stop signs, traffic signals, and other traffic's rights of way.

I almost want to puke when I see one of those "Share the Road" bumper stickers with a picture of a bicycle.

Substitute the word "Scooter" for Bicycle, and you will see exactly how many cagers regard us. The result is, literally, blood on the streets.

Leave your pre-judgments behind when you get on the road, no matter what you are riding or driving. Lives are at stake.

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:

jd wrote:You want to deal with a REALLY inconsiderate driver? Look for a bicyclist.

Without a doubt, bicyclists are the most arrogant, selfish scofflaws on the road around here. Their "greener than thou" attitude seems to empower them with the authority to ignore Stop signs, traffic signals, and other traffic's rights of way.

I almost want to puke when I see one of those "Share the Road" bumper stickers with a picture of a bicycle. The ones who don't share the road are the bicyclists more so than the non-human powered vehicles.

BTW, I ride my bicycle all over as well. But I stop at Stop signs and yield to traffic when I don't have the right of way. I figure if I want to get respect, I have to grant it as well.

When I'm riding my moped or scooter and am disrespected by a bicyclist, I'm sure to let him or her know how I feel about it. Once when a bicyclist cut off a car and I (on my moped), I decided to pass him and ride just about ten feet in front, spewing two-stroke exhaust into his face for a mile.

That dude was pissed. And I laughed all the way home.

Wow dude, take it easy. You have some serious animosity issues going on. Every mode of transportation has asshole aggressive drivers, but in all honesty, I'd rather have a city full of aggressive cyclists over aggressive soccer moms. Think about it, what would you rather collide with? Which is more likely to kill you? I can honestly understand some of the reasoning why cyclists are aggressive and hostile. It sucks to be at the bottom of the priority list when it comes to transportation planning. Cars are always treated as #1, and even building bike lane is useless when it's consistently blocked by delivery trucks or double parkers. Even when I follow the "rules of the road" and obey the traffic laws on my bike, I still have people try to run me off the road, throw shit at me, and yell at me to "get off the road". The cops don't do shit, so of course we have to take matters into our own hands sometimes. And we don't need douchebags yelling at us to use turn signals and when we need to stop. It's no wonder that the bicycle haters on MB come from Detroit and Phoenix. Wow, those cities are on the cutting edge of urban sustainability. Give me a break.

TVB wrote:Oh, and bicycling isn't a "sport"; it's a form of transportation. Kind of like riding a scooter.

+1. A common misconception amongst imbiciles. Bicycles aren't just exercise equipment or toys.

Point taken, BSFF. Detroit is highly motorized and I've taken plenty of crap from motorists when I'm riding my bicycle (and my moped, for that matter.) Due to the weather here, and the general sprawl of the city, bicycling really is more of a sport than transportation in Michigan (with the possible exception of Ann Arbor). You tend to see most bikes traveling in neon spandex "packs" for recreation, and those are the worst offenders.

My philosophy when riding a bike, moped or scooter has always been to obey the rules of the road. I figure showing respect earns respect. Maybe I'm just dreaming, but it seems to work. When I act like part of traffic, I am often treated like part of traffic. I figure the more good experiences I can give to drivers of larger vehicles, the more likely I am to receive courtesy in return. Maybe that is why it bothers me so much to see other riders doing things that I absolutely would not do. It's not only stupid and dangerous, it also undermines the credibility of the rider, and I feel that affects my own credibility when I'm riding the smaller vehicle.

On the other hand, maybe I'm just a Pollyanna. Whether I show respect or not, maybe it's not going to affect anyone else's behavior, so I should just grit my teeth, expect the worst from other drivers, and then just ignore it.

Food for thought, I suppose.

TVB wrote:Oh, and bicycling isn't a "sport"; it's a form of transportation. Kind of like riding a scooter.

It's both! Scooter racing: sport. Scooter riding: not a sport.

For some people, walking is a sport. For some, skateboarding. And so on.

I bike all too infrequently for exercise (not quite a sport, as I'm not competing) and to get places.

All forms of two wheels, bicycles, scooters, motorcycles...I do 'em all with the same attitude. I slip up here and there and let my own road rage get the better of me, but usually I do alright.

"They're being STUPID, and they're going to screw up eventually. They can be stupid all they want...far, far away from me." That's it.

I practice emergency braking and acceleration frequently (in random empty parking lots) so my two-wheeled implement and I work as seamlessly as possible. I know how fast I can accelerate, how much room I need to pull evasives, and how good my braking is...I have no bloody clue how good the road rager is. I much prefer them to be in front of me: I can control that. If they're behind me, I find a way to fix that. While I'm moving, I'm fast, nimble, and hard to pin down. When I'm stopped, I have mace in my jacket pocket for worst-case scenario only.

For my normal non-trip destinations, I know at LEAST 3 ways to get there and most of the detours/back-ways/alt routes. If traffic starts screwing with my groove, I change course.
One of my favorite quotes from Fifth Element: "I know this tune. Lets...change...the beat."


After my first few months on the scooter, I started noticing I was developing Jedi skills, and they only get better with use. I can usually pick up on when someone's going to merge, turn, or when stupid is brewing. It's a lot easier to keep my cool when I don't get caught off-guard.

back to the OP question...

I don't like to engage drivers in confrontation. If they hit me and try to leave, that's another story. People are absolute lunatics lately. They feel invincible in their cars. They think they can speed away wrecklessly from their mistakes, or simply roll up the window, turn the volume up and ignore the repercussions (spell check) of what they do. It's not worth it. They're already packing a deadly weapon that's very easy to turn the tables with. Not to mention what a lot of people may be carrying elsewhere, if they're high or drunk, and if they are already mentally unstable or on parole. People are stuck in traffic or married to their cars all day, so they're already on a short fuse. Let em go, they're better off way down the road ahead of you, wrapped up around a tree, or upside down later on in life. Karma will come around eventually. Just try to remember the important people in your life and what you could lose over a stupid road rage incident.

Another thing to consider, if you were to go vandalising somone's car, beating up the driver, or enacting your own form of street justice... most cops will only see it one sided. You can argue all day that someone cut you off, but once you go breaking stuff or fighting, you'll be the one getting locked up. It sucks, but unfortunately, most cops (and judges) will side with the driver.

Believe me, I'm no saint. I had plenty of blow-ups when I first started riding, including a fight at a red light. That didn't last long, and he actually pursued me for a little bit in a fullsize Range Rover. If he was able to catch up through traffic, I'm convinced he'd have mowed me down. I have a short fuse, but sometimes you really just have to let it go and take a breather.

Another thing to remember, when you face that kind of stress, your body and mind are designed to react, and take over, so you need to be cognizant of that.

Sometimes after near misses, I get chills, shivers, stomach pains, or a headache, and even if I react appropriately, my mind plays through it over and over, thinking "I shoulda done X" or coming up with revenge fantasies and distracts me from what's going on in the present.

I've had some near-accidents that weren't my fault, very closely followed by some near-accidents that WERE my fault, I bet it happens a lot.

If you're really worked up, pull over and give yourself a moment to chill out, or at least realize that your mind and body might not be 100% with you, and be extra-careful until they return to normal.



Bb.

Breathe in...breathe out.
Goooooose frabbaaaaaa.

Hey hey HEY!! I'm not Frabba.

My scooters and my bicycles "are" how I keep my cool, they make me a better driver when I'm in my car. Of course it's not always sunshine and roses when I'm on them but, I just can't let the arseholes get me down when I'm two wheels.
When I got my scoot, I had already been through the wringer as far as road rage and bicycles, it took along time but I finally quit letting it get to me. Like, I think imoses said, "like water on a ducks back" just let it go. Too bad it had to take several side view mirrors, boot marks in fenders, and even a few physical altercations for me to reach this mind set.
Whatever you enjoy there is somebody out there that doesn't think you have the rights to enjoy it.
Just be you and be cool, it's the only way to make sure you make it home safely.

Some of that response is "fight or flight" in action. You get the adrenaline hit and despite your conscious desire to chill, the chemicals are in there. All the "knowing better" in the world can't change that. Best to pull over as illnoise suggests.

Yesterday, woman in white Volvo S40. Starts coming into my lane. I lay on the horn. Keeps coming into my lane, but now puts her signal on. (DUH.) I lay into horn some more, but slow. She comes on over then keeps going into the turn lane. Then we're next to each other at the light. And she's just, "La la la," looking around, looking at everything except me. No wave or whatever. Nice.

One of the dumbest things I (still) do is when some jackass cuts me off just to save himself a few seconds or, in my mind, to get around "the scooter." I set out to prove that he will gain nothing from cutting me off and I will get where he's going just as fast SO THERE. This usually involves me cutting off other people.

Then there's this: The guy who's in a hurry but not getting anywhere fast because of all the damn traffic. So he cuts me off. Then keeps switching lanes all over to gain a 6-foot "advantage." So I get in front of them and then slow down. I try to trap them behind me and a slow-moving car in another lane. Do not follow my example here. That guy will try to swerve around and take me out.

And still, this morning: "Hey, jackass in the silver Mercedes! Did cutting me off and driving like an a$$hat get you to the bottom of Laurel Canyon any faster? NO."

Of course, the lesson he drives away with is: "Scooter riders are dicks."

Just can't win!

I used to do similar, Eric.

Especially about the "making the point to the guy who passed me thing." On my 50cc Honda Metro. I'd filter traffic and kinda pause as I pass them to smile like a jerk.

Once or twice it was super embarrassing because the light turned green on a hill and I knew I wouldn't keep up and would slow traffic down.....after cutting to the front..... I had to turn into a gas station just to save face <.<

Also did the "block in" thing a few times to try to make a point, but a few road ragers scared me straight and I never did it again on my metro. The Blur has the oomph now, but I was really at everyone elses mercy with a top speed of <35mph.

(note: I'm in West LA in an infamously trafficky area)

Anyway, as I said elsewhere in this thread, I learned to try to keep my cool. The Metro taught me patience...most of the time. The hardest thing for me to do was actively put myself in places where I knew I wouldn't risk angering other people. (Such as not cutting to the front of a line, or cutting to just behind a truck when a hill is approaching. Because I know the truck will go slow, I can keep up on the hill, and people wouldn't blame me or take anger out at me).

Luckily (or unluckily) with the Blur I feel like I'm in new sit of situations that didn't use to be a problem. Such as people cutting me off by making right turns in front of me. I didnt have the speed on the Metro fo that to be a problem, now I do.