Modern Buddy

Hi, this is my first post, though I've been lurking a bit for information and whatnot. I've had my Buddy 50 for almost a year now, and I love it.

As last night was Halloween, I don't know if this was some sick (drunken?) once-in-a-blue-moon prank or a more malicious crime, but let me try to relate the events.

I work in a group home for kids with special needs about 8 miles outside of city limits of Winchester, VA, and I drive to and fro, getting off at 10:30 pm. (Have been borrowing dad's car for a few months since returning from overseas, and gave it back to him a couple of weeks ago so haven't yet bought a car. Plan to do so within the next couple of weeks!) I've never had any problems riding here, and when I ride home from work, I may not see another car or see only a few.

Last night I got about halfway home when I saw the headlights approaching behind me. I saw that he was staying pretty close, so I moved over a little to the right and waved him on to pass me. (I was about 5 mph under the limit.) He moved but then I felt him actually sideswiping me, and I was thinking the idiot was a terrible driver and was passing too close, and I tried to/must have moved to right a bit more, but then feel something pushing on my left shoulder, and I slowed and saw two hands pushing me over from the rear passenger window. I swerved and slowed enough that they got ahead and I was fine though shaken, pissed, and shouting at them inside my full-face helmet. I take note of the model and color and stay close enough that I'm trying to catch the license plate number, but it's too far. Then they sped up and drove out of sight. Now, since I couldn't see them any more, I was wary and vigilant, just in case anything else should occur. I didn't see any more cars and couldn't see any cars parked unusually along the route, but then about a mile or two further down (and this time almost to city limits) a car again approached at my rear. This time I stayed fully in the lane, there was a passing zone and about to be a middle lane. (I think I figured if I had to swerve, I'd have more road to do it in and not risk running off the road.) I could see that again, he's riding my tail a bit, and it appears to be a white car again. Right as they approached to pass (or whatever), I moved to the right a little, and the car continued to pass, I felt something on my side, and they passed me and this time I saw that it's indeed the same car and this time the hands were holding a full-face (dirtbike?) helmet by the chin strap and had swung it at me. This time I got about half the license plate # and immediately slowed and pulled over to the side of the road and called the cops. The dispatcher had me pull off into a parking lot just beyond to wait for an officer, seeming concerned that if I kept going, they might be waiting for me again. So I talk to the officer, gave all the info I could. He basically said he could file an information report should anything ever happen again or they could offer to patrol that road more since I use it so frequently. By this point I'm pretty shaken up and can't imagine that there are actually people who would do things like try to knock a person off her scooter and wreck and likely cause serious injury if not death.

Anyway, I definitely had dreams about it last night, and they were NOT pleasant! I'll probably take a different route tonight just to be on the safe side and will certainly be on the lookout for this car, but other than that...I dunno. What would you do? Did I basically do the right thing? (I'm pleased with myself that I managed to NOT crash, but still.)
What creeps.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share.

Megan

Glad to hear that you kept your wits about you and had the instincts and skills to keep yourself from getting harmed. You won.

Halloween, New Year's Eve, and the night of "the big game" are three times when it's really best to just stay home if you can, or in a cage if you can't. On Halloween especially, people inexperienced with alcohol, driving, and the concept of "consequences" are simply a menace to society. My point not being to blame you for doing what you had every right to do, but to encourage you not to assume that this was malicious (just fvcking stupid) or something to fear on an ongoing basis.

I think you did the right thing by stopping and calling the cops. It didn't do any immediate good in terms of catching the weenies, but it at least raised the awareness that somebody was playing this game.

IMHO the best bet when something like this happens is to get off the street, preferably to a lighted place where there are people around. In a situation where somebody is making intentional contact with you, either by hand or with their vehicle, there's no way you're going to be safe by keeping your lane. Check quickly to see what's behind you, and slow down smartly and get behind them - you can't out-run them, but you'll always be able to slow down more quickly than a car, and maybe catch a plate number.

Defensive riding means thinking in the background about what you'd do if a situation like this happened, planning 'escape' routes when stopped at a light, having situational awareness about which adjoinding lanes are open in the case of street debris, etc. Think about your options - hiding on a side street, U-turn back to a lighted business, etc. Stopping and forcing a confrontation would be very low on my list, as it sounds like it was at least 2-to-1 against.

Glad you're okay!

I can't imagine what kind of crazy a-hole would do this to someone on two wheels, it's nuts. But, obviously, those people are out there. You did the right thing by pulling over and calling the cops, hopefully whoever it was will be caught for something before they hurt or kill someone!

If they were drunk or not that can be considered attempted murder. That could of caused a collision which could have ended in loss of life. I'm glad your ok but I hope they get caught.

I'm surprised the police didn't take it more seriously. What they were doing was incredibly dangerous and could've had a tragic outcome. A**holes.

You did about as good as anyone could have. Glad you're OK. Take care.

This only makes me want a helmet can that much more

Lokky wrote:This only makes me want a helmet can that much more

Like this?

wow...whats wrong with some people! glad to hear your ok.

TVB is right in the fact that you have to realise there some nights you have to be extra careful. After 10 pm lastnight i was going to head out for a spin but decide bot to because i knew there would be drunken dumbasses out there.

Well, congratulations!! You did the right thing!...You stayed upright and got the hell away from them...Good job! ( Pats on back an all)

Hopefully it was just drunken Halloween Aholes, but yeah, keep your guard up...

You certainly did the right thing. It sounds like a scary experience, but try not to let it keep you off your bike long. I think it's important to remember that this was probably not a scooter-specifiic form of stupidity. You had a bunch of jerks trying to impress each other. If you had been walking or been on a bicycle, the same thing might have happened. If you had been driving a convertible, they might have tried to throw something into it. There are lots of jerks in the world, and many will try to boost their own self esteem by preying on someone else. The fact that you were on a scooter only made it easier for them, but probably was not the REASON they did what they did.

jd wrote:You certainly did the right thing. It sounds like a scary experience, but try not to let it keep you off your bike long. I think it's important to remember that this was probably not a scooter-specifiic form of stupidity. You had a bunch of jerks trying to impress each other. If you had been walking or been on a bicycle, the same thing might have happened. If you had been driving a convertible, they might have tried to throw something into it. There are lots of jerks in the world, and many will try to boost their own self esteem by preying on someone else. The fact that you were on a scooter only made it easier for them, but probably was not the REASON they did what they did.

Yup, this.

There have been instances of jackasses targeting scooterists and it seems they were doing it because the person was on a scooter. That's not unheard of. Some people hate us.

This sounds like you happened to be out and vulnerable when these guys came along looking for any kind of trouble. It's awful, but if you'd been on a bicycle you might be in a hospital now.

Cops won't do a damn thing. They sure don't in the Phoenix/Metro area unless they are RIGHT there, and even then they'll question you more than the people doing it. Scooter riders in the US have no rights, so I just assume I'm on my own with it.

I don't think I would of been so diplomatic... I have had a carload of kids trying to throw beer bottles at me while riding in Tempe. My response was NOT what they were expecting we shall say. They stopped at a light and I responded with a little aggression in kind. Sometimes you have to drive aggressively as well as become aggressive in other ways. Yes, it's not politically correct but, when you're on a small bike, people don't care. You can either get in their face or get the hell out of the way ASAP. To people in the US, scooters and the people that ride them are a joke and just potential victims.

I love riding. The weather has improved but the other reason I am hanging up my helmet for the winter is that it gets dark sooner and I do not want to get caught riding after dark. It is both visibility and lunatics thinking they can get away with more after dark.
I am suret cops are looking for the morons who did this to you. Probably a bunch of drunk college kids too whacked out of their sculls to realize they could kill someone doing this.

People suck.

rsrider wrote:People suck.

No, most of them don't. It's a shame if most of the people you know meet that description. I suggest you go out and make some new friends.

Glad you are ok.

A few things to add:

Get away as quickly as possible to reduce contact time with dumba$$es. In your situation I will get out of the way and grab a handful of brake to force them past.

Use different routes if possible. People are creatures of habit. Don't be on the same schedule(route) making you an easy target.

I try and stay off the beaten path and even take routes that don't always make sense. Credit nature's fox with that lesson. Easy to tell if you have trouble on your tail.

People like that should be driven up to 50 mph and then pushed out of the car. There's no excuse for messing with someone on a moving vehicle.

jd wrote:

rsrider wrote:People suck.

No, most of them don't. It's a shame if most of the people you know meet that description. I suggest you go out and make some new friends.

Um, yes they do. Self-centeredness and a disturbing lack of civility is the norm now. I've watched it happen over the past 50-odd years. Besides, I believe he was speaking in generalities as opposed to specifics. I would have no reason to question his friends...they are but a few...not the overall society.

--Keys

The cop that met up with you did not do his job.

Keys wrote:Um, yes they do. Self-centeredness and a disturbing lack of civility is the norm now. I've watched it happen over the past 50-odd years. Besides, I believe he was speaking in generalities as opposed to specifics. I would have no reason to question his friends...they are but a few...not the overall society.

--Keys

I agree completely. The lack of morals and ethics combined with selfishness have become endemic. We are reaping the benefits of worshipping/accomodating the lowest common denominator.

All generalizations are false.

k1dude wrote: The lack of morals and ethics combined with selfishness have become endemic. We are reaping the benefits of worshipping/accomodating the lowest common denominator.

^^^ well said...

Find the good people in the world, and have some of them as your friends.

Keys wrote:

jd wrote:

rsrider wrote:People suck.

No, most of them don't. It's a shame if most of the people you know meet that description. I suggest you go out and make some new friends.

Um, yes they do. Self-centeredness and a disturbing lack of civility is the norm now. I've watched it happen over the past 50-odd years. Besides, I believe he was speaking in generalities as opposed to specifics. I would have no reason to question his friends...they are but a few...not the overall society.

--Keys

Seriously? We're going to argue over whether people suck?

Throughout the course of human history, there have always been people who have decided that humanity gets progressively worse. There are thousands of years' of writings on this very topic. Whether it's the Roman Empire, monotheism, the persistence of polytheism, non-Christian occupation of the Holy Lands, the Renaissance, religious freedom, the abolishment of slavery, alcohol, suffrage, rock and roll, beatniks, the civil rights movement, hippies, the Internet, cell phones, video games or what have you there's never been a shortage of signs of the impending demise of civilization.

True or not, I don't really care. Arguing about it here simply adds to the problem.

There's something particularly cynical about trying to convince someone that the world is actually a much shittier place than they see it. If your world and experiences really are that bad well that's a pity. I would think you'd be happy to leave it behind when coming here. We don't all have to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya," but let's at least stop bickering and dragging all that negativity into our little scooter haven.

Continuing on along these lines will get this thread locked, which would be unfortunate.

jd wrote:

rsrider wrote:People suck.

No, most of them don't. It's a shame if most of the people you know meet that description. I suggest you go out and make some new friends.

My co-workers son got his ass stomped, robbed, and spent the night in the hospital after being attacked Halloween night by some gang bangers. He was walking home from a party.

I was thinking today about the increase in random acts of violence against other people that have occurred just over the past six months. I don't know what the dealio is, but it's getting worse IMHO. So you can't ride a scooter down the street or walk home at night, because there are people out the who want to wreck you and/or assault and rob you, just because you're there and they can.....seriously.

Guys- arguing over whether people suck or not is pointless. Some people DO suck. But some people are wonderful. And there's not a damn worth in speculating about the relative suckiness of the general populus- it's STUPID and bound to put everybody in a much worse mood than they were.

It is also mean and stupid assumption to assume that (all) cops don't do their job. I'm sorry, but I **HATE** it when somebody walks into my store and tells me I'm doing my job wrong. Unless you've worn that uniform before, you probably have no idea what it's like to perform that job and shouldn't be passing judgment on it. (before anybody flames me, I'm not a cop, work retail... but I'd say this about most jobs, not just law enforcement)

If I'm not mistaken, Winchester is a somewhat/pretty rural area. It sounds like this was a rural route with any amount of turnoffs or whatever for the culprits to turn down and get away. Drunk as they may have been- I am sure that once they realized LuckyCharm was not continuing down the road any longer and/or saw her pulled over on the phone, they probably wised up and bolted, who knows in what direction. Police could be fairly spread out in such an area, even on Halloween night, and could have taken a bit to get to her- seeing as she wasn't actually hurt, she may have unfortunately not been a priority call at the moment. She got half a plate, and a color, but unless she was very sure of the EXACT MAKE AND MODEL- that would not necessarily be enough to narrow it down. Even then- (I ran into this problem when I was being harrassed going down 64 and tried to have State Troopers intervene, only to have the bastard exit before they arrived) even if the police tracked the vehicle and went to the residence it was registered to and found it, they wouldn't be able to charge anybody because they would have no proof of who the driver or passengers were at the time of the assault.

I'm not trying to be insensitive- but I feel that those who are saying the police did not do enough in this situation, are not taking all these things into account. They offered more to LuckyCharm than some police would have- which was to patrol the route more regularly. I think that's fantastic- that's not something I would have gotten where I live, and they put a complaint on file so that if anything happens again there will be a history. Short of escorting her the rest of the way, I don't think there is anything more they could have done.

However that is unfortunate and does make me angry Those douchenozzles deserve to be caught at their game and punished. They really could have caused a fatal accident and I hope they at least had the worst hangover or their lives and I hope they all wake up with terrible tattoos and don't know where they got them or something

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Barge barge barge

Anyway, I'm glad you aren't hurt and I hope this does not take the fun out of scooting. And I hope you never see those jerkoffs again.

Wow that's terrifying. I hope that you got a better night's sleep last night. I have had a situation where I was approached by a group of men at a stoplight who "wanted to know more about my scooter" and then quickly tried to grab me off the scooter. I had nightmares the first night and it felt like my heart was going to pound right out of my chest from the adrenaline.

How are your friends and family taking it? If you're really nervous about riding maybe you could have a friend or family member ride with you your first time back on that route. Or you could arrange a nightly call with a friend so that once you get home, they know you're safe. I also wouldn't let this incident keep you off the scooter, but sometimes there is no denying the sheer terror that you feel when something like this happens.

Fortunately you thought quickly and did the best thing you could in the moment. I hope you get back on your scooter soon!

Lukychrm42,

Unfortunately, there is nothing new in this action as I am new to scooters, but have been riding my road bike for 30+ years. In that time I have had objects tossed at me, had a car run me off the road (after that incident I gave up riding for a few years), and have had more than a few nice (not)words yelled in passing as some just don't think slower two wheeled modes of transport should share the road with them (funny, but it usually seems to be drivers in gas sucking pickups). What I have learned is that it's always much better to ride with others.

But, I still feel that overall there are a lot more good people than bad but would agree with others that the gap is narrowing.

ericalm wrote:There's something particularly cynical about trying to convince someone that the world is actually a much shittier place than they see it.

I really like that comment.

sorry to hear about that Megan. I'd follow up with the Sheriffs Dept and get better advice. If their vehicle made contact as you said they sideswiped you, then that's potentially leaving the scene of an accident. If there is any damage, photograph it and write down the license plate number before you forget. I love riding out in that area, especially Mt Weather and Harpers Ferry WV. I was in a similar situation but never made physical contact with the car and had to dump my bike when the driver locked his brakes on me. Arlington PD was no help at all. Your situation may be different.

I don't know what it is with Halloween, but it seems to be an excuse for mayhem, crime, and settling scores. 6 shootings in the District, including a teenage boy shot in the head right in the heart of Georgetown, the tourist mecca and safest part of the city. And back home in Long Island when I was in HS, the bedroom community became a war zone with gangs from other areas destroying property, burning cars and beating people up. One guy in front of my cousins house nearly got beat to death for his bicycle.

What kind of coward attacks someone at random on a bike? Especially a woman!

Good luck to ya Megan, let us know if anything comes up. Way to keep the rubber side down!

this is why i carry a 1" wrench in my bag.

Reach out and and start fuckin with me you'll end up with broken hands.

whorobj wrote:this is why i carry a 1" wrench in my bag.

Reach out and and start fuckin with me you'll end up with broken hands.

In scooter vs. most other vehicles, scooter loses. You could be a wrench ninja but unless you can pull the lug nuts off a truck or car in motion, those broken hands will belittle comfort when you're run off the road.

ericalm wrote:

whorobj wrote:this is why i carry a 1" wrench in my bag.

Reach out and and start fuckin with me you'll end up with broken hands.

In scooter vs. most other vehicles, scooter loses. You could be a wrench ninja but unless you can pull the lug nuts off a truck or car in motion, those broken hands will belittle comfort when you're run off the road.

Amen.

as far as people sucking goes, i think that a big part of it is that we have an increasingly large number of ways to communicate. a thousand years ago, i'm sure people got jacked up all the time - but they couldn't post or tweet or whatever about it. you couldn't tell a ton of people from all over the world about it.

that being said, bad news is also the fastest to spread. but i watched this video today and i'll be darned if it didn't restore my faith in humanity RIGHT THEN:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KZJhfP50bxE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

whorobj wrote:this is why i carry a 1" wrench in my bag.

Reach out and and start fuckin with me you'll end up with broken hands.

Actually, I think this is a great idea. Once you pull out that 1 inch wrench and start waving it at them, they'll surely break their own hands while laughing hysterically.

black sunshine wrote:as far as people sucking goes, i think that a big part of it is that we have an increasingly large number of ways to communicate. a thousand years ago, i'm sure people got jacked up all the time - but they couldn't post or tweet or whatever about it. you couldn't tell a ton of people from all over the world about it.

that being said, bad news is also the fastest to spread. but i watched this video today and i'll be darned if it didn't restore my faith in humanity RIGHT THEN:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KZJhfP50bxE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On your "increasingly large number of ways to communicate" point... I've seen this posted on facebook by at least four of my friends since yesterday, and that's only from the very few people that are not "hidden" from my news feed. I still think it's kinda crappy that they never gave this kid a chance on the court before this game. Obviously he would have helped them out a lot had he been out there sooner!

Anyway, while that's great and everything, there's things like the following that can take that feeling of believing in humanity right back away from you. It really sucks having the bad stuff shoved in your face every time you turn on the TV, fire up your computers, open up your magazines/newspapers.

I try to stay away from these things for obvious reasons, I much prefer to read about the success stories that come from "Pet Pardons" or other various Animal Rescue/Anti-kill shelter news (in addition to other helpful organizations supporting their communities, medical research etc etc).
This is something that happened at one of the "Occupy" movement rallies, much like the cop running over the guy with the scooter.

(Warning, the text quoted below may be rather upsetting, and you might not want to read it.
I know it made me cry, and I'm not one of those sappy cry for girly movie type chicks. To make the story short, so you don't have to read it in detail, the cop brutally murders the dog, for no reasonable purpose, surrounded by a crowd of onlookers at one of the "Occupy" rallies.)

The dog was named Parrot.
This was taken moments before Parrot was murdered by the cop. The cop drove his knee into the middle of Parrot's back while stretching Parrot's forelegs behind him, as one would do with an armed human criminal. Without waiting to determine whether this technique would calm Parrot, the cop grabbed Parrot, lifted him off the ground, and brought him to the top of the concrete staircase.
He threw Parrot over the banister, down twelve steps, and onto the concrete floor. Then, the cop stood at the top of the stairs, drew his weapon, and executed Parrot. Aaron, the animal's owner, cannot recall the number of shots fired. Witnesses state that Parrot was not harming anybody and was simply frightened by the cop. At no time did Parrot try to bite the officer, all he did was start barking.
It doesn't matter if you are a part of an Occupy movement, PETA, Republican, Democrat, Independant Religious or not, if you are a part of the human race this should be a wake up call that something is very wrong with our society.

No matter how you look at it, some people are absolutely wonderful, and some are absolutely evil. It's unfortunately a part of our society today. I try to surround myself with the absolutely wonderful, but sometimes those evil ones seem to seep their way in to my life from time to time, whether they are mistakenly invited or not.

Unfortunately, even the most wonderful people have issues with road rage, and us being scooterists means that we are likely the most vulnerable/"unseen" people on the road, and the most likely to be targeted or taken advantage of, just because it's easy for others to do so.
...this doesn't necessarily mean that carrying wrenches around on your bike will solve your problems. Being smart about avoiding these people will go a lot farther than retaliating at your own risk, and it will probably make you a much happier rider as well! Just being aware of the other motorists around you can make a HUGE difference, it's pretty easy to tell who is out to get you, and who is just on their merry way home from work, or on their way to the grocery store, or wherever. It's also fairly easy to tell when someone is distracted by something in their car, whether it be a cell phone, children, make-up, coffee, or whatever (unnecessary braking, abrupt movements, swerving or drifting into other lanes without notice or reason).

What's to stop the road ragers/drunk people/stupid kids/etc like Megan (OP) encountered from slamming to a stop right in front of you, and having 5 friends jump out of the car to beat you to a pulp after you wave your wrench/other "weapon" around at them? If they're willing to try to knock you down, or otherwise hurt you when you are riding, the best thing to do is just get away from them asap!
All we can do to maintain a positive view is to avoid the ill-spirited folks to the best of our ability... especially while on our scooters!

Ride safe, and ride SMART!
(and if possible, ride with someone, even being near a friend with a car is better than being alone)

That is well typed Awinn! Violence only breeds more violence and hate.....

That story's a fake, here's a summary of what happened.

Accounts of the police killing of Parrot differ considerably. All agree that police became involved after Parrot bit another dog that was passing by. However, the dog's owner and other eye witnesses claim that the killing was unjustified because Parrot was "making no aggressive overtures" when he was shot. Parrot's owner claims that he was already subduing the dog when police stepped in. But, police tell a different story. According to a Police Report about the incident, an officer threw the dog into a stairwell after being bitten on the hand while attempting to control it. The Police Report claims that the dog then charged back up the stairs towards the police officer and was subsequently shot to protect the safety of the officer and members of a large nearby crowd.

Ethan Allison wrote:That story's a fake, here's a summary of what happened.

Accounts of the police killing of Parrot differ considerably. All agree that police became involved after Parrot bit another dog that was passing by. However, the dog's owner and other eye witnesses claim that the killing was unjustified because Parrot was "making no aggressive overtures" when he was shot. Parrot's owner claims that he was already subduing the dog when police stepped in. But, police tell a different story. According to a Police Report about the incident, an officer threw the dog into a stairwell after being bitten on the hand while attempting to control it. The Police Report claims that the dog then charged back up the stairs towards the police officer and was subsequently shot to protect the safety of the officer and members of a large nearby crowd.

Of course the police report is going to protect the officers by any means necessary (it's not unheard of that some police lie to cover their asses, and "justify" violent actions toward an "assailant"). So for all you know, the story that YOU posted is likely more fake than the one I did. The only people that know what REALLY happened are the ones that were there, were you there? I'm guessing not since you didn't say "No, I was there, and this is what happened..."

At any rate, my neighbor's small dog (one of those little white poofy things) was bit on the face/head at an event/parade in Saratoga (centered mainly around dogs and creating a "dog friendly down town") by a much larger lab mix that was supposedly very friendly, and had been to the events many times before without any problems. The lab mix that bit the little one wasn't tossed down stairs and shot, it was handled by it's owners (even though there were police nearby that could have easily stepped in). The little dog was okay, just stunned, and the bigger dog let go without causing any major damage (he could have easily popped the little guy's head right off like a dandelion if he wanted to). The bigger dog snapped at it's owners, then realized real quick that that was a bad idea, and was immediately removed from the event by it's owners, not the police.

The story with the cop throwing the dog down the stairs, then shooting it is still completely horrifying. If the cops knew anything about dealing with dogs, I'm sure it would have been handled A LOT differently, and probably would have resulted in a much different, likely better, outcome.

as far as people sucking goes, i think that a big part of it is that we have an increasingly large number of ways to communicate. a thousand years ago, i'm sure people got jacked up all the time - but they couldn't post or tweet or whatever about it. you couldn't tell a ton of people from all over the world about it.

I've never bought into this and never will. It's not a matter of just "there's more communication so we know it's happening now", it's that it happens more often now than before. There used to be far more social restraint in society than there is now. Overall, we haven't changed for the better, I'm afraid.

The reasons for this would run us right into the "don't go there" guidelines of the forum so I won't go further.

glad your ok. kinda a crazy situation.

some people are bad, most are not. some cops are lazy, most are not. some people who ride scooters are totally super tough, most are not. you did the right thing. and the only thing. don't let some d-bags stop you from enjoying your ride. i don't want to down play the situation. but your ok and thats whats important.

pugbuddy wrote:I've never bought into this and never will. It's not a matter of just "there's more communication so we know it's happening now", it's that it happens more often now than before.

This is the reasoning that leads people to think that there's a child-abduction epidemic in our society... despite the fact that police statistics show otherwise. It's an illusion created by the fact that every abduction in a country of a third of a billion people gets coverage.

There used to be far more social restraint in society than there is now.

And far more racial discrimination, overt sexual harassment, fag bashing, etc.

Overall, we haven't changed for the better, I'm afraid.

I guess that depends on what factors you put more weight on.

TVB wrote:

pugbuddy wrote:I've never bought into this and never will. It's not a matter of just "there's more communication so we know it's happening now", it's that it happens more often now than before.

This is the reasoning that leads people to think that there's a child-abduction epidemic in our society... despite the fact that police statistics show otherwise. It's an illusion created by the fact that every abduction in a country of a third of a billion people gets coverage.

There used to be far more social restraint in society than there is now.

And far more racial discrimination, overt sexual harassment, fag bashing, etc.

Overall, we haven't changed for the better, I'm afraid.

I guess that depends on what factors you put more weight on.

Since we're determined to go down this path…

I'm with TVB on this. There was a time when women wantonly exposing their ankles in public was considered a sign of the sure decay of the moral fabric of society. Until the mid-'60s, "social restraint" meant that men always wore hats when leaving the house and always took them off when going indoors. (Going bare-headed was the pants on the ground of its day.) Women in the workplace were going to destroy the country. Selling candles on Sundays would weaken our moral fiber. And so on.

I can't say that society, on the whole, isn't ruder and more self-centered than ever. What I can say is that the belief that things are worse than before is nothing new—in fact, it's generational and comes with aging and societal changes (that are often for the better). Our evidence for this decline in values and behavior is almost always anecdotal. It comes from witnessing behaviors we don't approve of or agree with and is fed by our selective attention to events reported in the media. It's human nature to seek out, remember and give more weight to events that support our beliefs. Plenty of research out there on this. There are also decades of surveys which show that the majority of people have always thought our culture is more rude than it used to be.

What it often comes down to is that behaviors in the world of today aren't the same as they were earlier in our lives. This is distressing. It signifies the inevitability of cultural change and that the world we knew or remember no longer exists. It plays into anxieties about being left behind (in culture, work, social environments) and lack of trust in our successors not to screw the world up. It makes us feel powerless. It's almost always regarded as being a bad thing.

Before long, we're waxing on about how polite people were in the old days, how people knew their place and minded their manners, how kids these days are a bunch of sociopathic hooligans. Yet somehow we think we're more right than those who said such things about our generations, or 100 years ago or even 400 years ago. Trying to determine whether we actually are more rude than in the past is virtually impossible, but it's clear that the perception exists and has for centuries.

I'm all for encouraging civility and courtesy and working to make the world a less hostile place. I try to practice this in my own behavior as much as possible. But let's be honest and realistic about this and where our feelings and perceptions of suckitude come from. Doesn't mean they're not valid—that guy who cut you off while driving and texting is a selfish jerk—but they're not unique and don't necessarily signify the end of civilization. Just civilization as we know it.

Bck in my motorcycle days (1960-1978) I have been "side swiped" twice by cars, had guns pulled on me twice by car drivers, threatened with a dump truck swerving into my lane for "laughs" and hit with a wet beach towel tied into a knot which was thrown from a car. Most of the events happened in Kansas and Missouri but one of the guns was in California. The beach towel event happened in KS by some kids who thought it would be a gas to try to knock some biker off his horse. Closing speed was nearly 120 mph and it nearly unseated me and made me cough blood. I caught up with them after I got done wretching and got license #, make, model and good visuals on all three occupants. Went to police station and filed a complaint with all the pertinent info. I was called into the DA's office about two weeks later and told he could do nothing about the situation since the thrower was a "destitute Indian (Native American these days) boy" and besides, " We don't like motorcyclists here in Kansas."

The mind set that I adopted was totally defensive for the future. I WILL fight if I am cornered but the first action is/will be to withdraw, escape and evade all the while collecting info for POSSIBLE law enforcement involvement. Halloween sucks!

Karl

Well, thanks for the support.

I can't say I'll be likely to start carrying weapons for numerous reasons, not the least of which being an inability to use while keeping 2 hands on the handlebars, but I definitely won't assume all drivers are friendly or competent.

I haven't seen the guys or had any trouble since, but you can be sure if I see the car again I'll call it in.

/

Lukychrm42 wrote:Well, thanks for the support.

I can't say I'll be likely to start carrying weapons for numerous reasons, not the least of which being an inability to use while keeping 2 hands on the handlebars, but I definitely won't assume all drivers are friendly or competent.

I haven't seen the guys or had any trouble since, but you can be sure if I see the car again I'll call it in.

/

You could put a flamethrower on the front with a button by your horn, turn signals, etc. Just don't use it when you're going too fast or you might get sprayed.

AWinn6889 wrote:

Ethan Allison wrote:That story's a fake, here's a summary of what happened.

Accounts of the police killing of Parrot differ considerably. All agree that police became involved after Parrot bit another dog that was passing by. However, the dog's owner and other eye witnesses claim that the killing was unjustified because Parrot was "making no aggressive overtures" when he was shot. Parrot's owner claims that he was already subduing the dog when police stepped in. But, police tell a different story. According to a Police Report about the incident, an officer threw the dog into a stairwell after being bitten on the hand while attempting to control it. The Police Report claims that the dog then charged back up the stairs towards the police officer and was subsequently shot to protect the safety of the officer and members of a large nearby crowd.

Of course the police report is going to protect the officers by any means necessary (it's not unheard of that some police lie to cover their asses, and "justify" violent actions toward an "assailant"). So for all you know, the story that YOU posted is likely more fake than the one I did. The only people that know what REALLY happened are the ones that were there, were you there? I'm guessing not since you didn't say "No, I was there, and this is what happened...".

So nobody on this board was there, of course there are going to be two sides to the story. Since it's not anecdotal, it's probably not a very good way to try and prove a point.

ericalm wrote:

jd wrote:You certainly did the right thing. It sounds like a scary experience, but try not to let it keep you off your bike long. I think it's important to remember that this was probably not a scooter-specifiic form of stupidity. You had a bunch of jerks trying to impress each other. If you had been walking or been on a bicycle, the same thing might have happened. If you had been driving a convertible, they might have tried to throw something into it. There are lots of jerks in the world, and many will try to boost their own self esteem by preying on someone else. The fact that you were on a scooter only made it easier for them, but probably was not the REASON they did what they did.

Yup, this.

There have been instances of jackasses targeting scooterists and it seems they were doing it because the person was on a scooter. That's not unheard of. Some people hate us.

This sounds like you happened to be out and vulnerable when these guys came along looking for any kind of trouble. It's awful, but if you'd been on a bicycle you might be in a hospital now.

Many years ago, I worked for Ryder Logistics, and my supervisor had, I believe, a nephew who was assaulted in a similar fashion by a truckload of... well, they hit him with beer bottles, ran over and destroyed his bike. The kid got off with just some cuts and bruises, fortunately, but was out his bike. I had a bicycle sitting unused in my garage at the time, so I offered to let her have it, to replace the one lost. Good thing I had a bike to spare, sure wish I could have caught those... well, I don't want to be impolite.

yikes, what a scary story. being the victim of violent crime 4 times (oh yeah not to mention being attacked by a pack of wild dogs 3 weeks ago) in my short 22 years, i know how you feel. one time i was skateboarding home and had three eggs throw at me by some punk kids in a car. took me about 30 seconds to figure out what had happened. i went home that same way for another year, and it never happened again.

i wouldnt let the fear of that one single event control you. they probably were drunk and looking for trouble. prepare and be safe, use discretion, but do what you have to do. you have to go to work, and so go. i believe that being controlled by fear of any kind will destroy your life (at least, eventually).

i also believe that the Lord is good and that he protects me against things which i cannot control (not to say one should be foolish). it helps me deal with a chaotic world.

i really do hope that never happens again, though!

Some people hate us.

I know this is true and I do not understand why. I rode a Vespa when I lived in Phoenix and got the point and stare a lot. Now I live in Austin and there are scooters EVERYWHERE. I feel a lot better riding here than I did in Phx and that's a shame...you should be able to ride safely without paranoia no matter where you live.