Modern Buddy

UPDATE: Scroll down to see the update on 12/5/11. (tl;dr: It's fixed!)

[I sent this e-mail to Genuine tonight, but I thought I'd post it here as well in the interests of openness. If this isn't appropriate for this forum, my apologies for mis-posting. I'm just miserable that I even had to write this letter, and it's kind of my last desperate attempt to find a solution. Like I said in the letter, I really want to love my scooter and Genuine... but right now I'm not feeling the love.]


Dear Phil,

I thought it would be worth a shot to write to you and all the folks at Genuine and see if you can help me with a serious problem. It involves one of your scooters, one of your dealers, a love of Genuine that's been strained to the breaking point, a life in danger, and a desperate hope that someone out there still cares about making things right with their customers.

A few years ago I bought my first real scooter, a Genuine Roughhouse. I had done a lot of research and Genuine Scooters had an incredible reputation for dependability, backed up by a great warranty. Furthermore the company seemed involved in the scooter community, and committed to only bringing the best of PGO's best to the American market. I loved that Roughhouse, but as is often the case, I soon outgrew the 49cc engine and moved up to its big brother, the Rattler. In a sea of Vespas and "nice" scooters, the Rattler stood out like a heavy metal song, and I rode the heck out of it in many local scooter rallies and commuting to work year-round. I rode it in sun, rain, hail, and snow. On a dare I even rode it from Seattle, Washington up to Vancouver, Canada and back, a 330 mile round trip I completed in two days. It was a dream scooter.

A change in jobs meant that I needed a bigger scooter to manage the 55 mph traffic between here and there. The Rattler could manage those speeds, but just barely. As luck would have it Genuine was just re-introducing the Blur with the bigger 220i engine, and in late August 2010 I picked up one of the first few to land at Ducati Seattle, one of your local Genuine dealers. It had the power, speed, and handling I required, and to me it felt like the even bigger brother to the Rattler: just as aggressive, brash, and full of attitude. For the first six months I had a great time with the Blur, and it delivered everything it promised in spades. Then everything started to go wrong. The Blur would sometimes stall out, and then wouldn't start. Sometimes I'd have to feather the throttle to keep it from dying for the first ten minutes of any ride while the engine warmed up. Sometimes it worked perfectly, and then the next day would be back to having problems. It was a fuel-injected bike that was more temperamental than my two-stroke Rattler. However I knew it was under warranty and delivered it straight to Ducati Seattle, who told me a few days later that they had fixed it. I picked it up and the next day found it they hadn't fixed anything.

What's followed has been six months of Ducati Seattle "fixing" my scooter, me reclaiming the scooter, and then within a few rides realizing that it's not fixed after all. They think that the problems lie with the fuel injection system, and I agree completely, but although they have claimed that they have swapped out most of the major components of the system, the problems remain. At this point the Blur is not only unreliable as a scooter due to random shutdowns, it's actually unsafe. In the course of the various "fixes" to the Blur, the scooter will now sometimes suddenly start losing power until it dies, and this has happened multiple times when I am on a major road with no shoulders or exits. When the speed limit is 50, people are going 55, and I'm going full throttle in a racer's tuck and dropping slowly toward 20 mph, it's hard not to feel like I could die due to the problems with this scooter. The repair work that Ducati Seattle has done has made the scooter worse, and their excuses and failure to even call me back indicate a complete lack of concern over this issue.

So what's the point? The point is that not only have I lost faith that Ducati Seattle knows how to fix this scooter (or cares about scooters at all), I'm starting to lose faith in Genuine Scooters as well. I just don't trust the Blur, not like I trusted the Roughhouse and the Rattler. I look at the Blur and see a scooter that might strand me in the middle of nowhere, or leave me praying that I won't get read-ended as it stalls out. I feel like for whatever reason I got a lemon, and Ducati Seattle seems unwilling or unable to make it back into the awesome bike I first purchased. I loved my Blur, but now I wish it would just disappear.

If I could request my perfect solution to this whole mess it would be to have Ducati Seattle just give me my money back, or pay off my scooter loan, and let me walk away. I wouldn't blame them, and I wouldn't blame you; I'd just call it even. If that isn't an option, I'd be willing to either have my Blur replaced with an entirely different non-fuel-injected scooter (like the 2-stroke Stella), or in the absolute worst case, replaced with another Blur that runs properly. I really want to love my Genuine scooter again, and I want to believe that Genuine is a company who does what they can to make things okay for their customers. Right now though I see a Genuine-approved dealer in my city who is either incompetent or uncaring, and a Genuine scooter that I'm terrified to ride. I tried contacting you months ago about this issue via a phone call to the Genuine offices, but my phone message was never returned, and I was left feeling like I wasn't worth contacting. I don't see a lot of avenues left to me other than to put a tarp over a brand-new scooter, or to figure out if I have any legal avenues to resolve this.

If I don't have another option presented to me by this Saturday (11/5) I'm going to have to assume that Genuine doesn't really care, but I don't want to believe that about you. Please contact me (any time, day or night) and let me know that you stand by your product. I want to love Genuine Scooters again.

Sincerely,

Scalpel[/b]

What an awful scenario! I hope you get a solution you are happy with very soon soon. Crazy it has gone this far! My guess is that as soon as Phil gets word of this it will get taken care of ASAP. Genuine really is tops at taking care if their peeps. This must have fallen through the cracks. As for Ducatti Seattle, that they haven't resolved this for you ages ago is disgraceful.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:What an awful scenario! I hope you get a solution you are happy with very soon soon. Crazy it has gone this far! My guess is that as soon as Phil gets word of this it will get taken care of ASAP.

I really hope you're right. I'm just stressed out to the limit dealing with this, and I hate the feeling of not wanting to ride my scooter. It's a sucky feeling.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone from Genuine reads it and contacts me. And to be clear, this forum will be my first stop for reporting anything good that comes out of this mess. I'm hoping that when this is all over, I'll be able to very loudly point to Genuine as a company that kicks ass and deserves my loyalty as a customer.

Wow that really sucks. I hope it all gets resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

I wouldn't even cross your fingers. Having met Phil this past weekend and seen how passionate he is about this company, he will most definitely respond. He is very connected and works hard to stay connected to us riders.

Sorry to hear about your situation and I am sure it will soon be resolved.

I certainly going to watch this thread with interest. R

still shifting wrote:I certainly going to watch this thread with interest. R

+1 I'm considering a new scooter. The Blur is on my list. I certainly can wait to see the resolution to your issue.

I have also been looking at a Blur here in NM There are two dealers to choose from which is good. R

At least I'm not the only one that has had problems with an incompetent scooter shop looking for help from Genuine!
They've actually told me to BLAME GENUINE for various things that have nothing to do with the company at all! It's all their shop that keeps making excuses, lying, insulting, and ripping off it's Genuine Scooter customers!
Apparently we're not good enough because we didn't buy one of their Vespas!

Scalpel,

How many miles on the Blur, and I'm assuming with so many trips to the dealer it's been (as far as you know) properly serviced at the right times.

Just out of curiosity. I had my Blur choke and die on me just once, but at ~600 miles no problems yet. From a few older threads in the Blur forums, some people start seeing trouble between 3 to 4 thousand miles. And the rest of us cross our fingers and hope it's just the unlucky stand out, but I'd hate to see a lot of problems once everyone starts hitting 10k or something.

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation!

Edwub wrote:How many miles on the Blur, and I'm assuming with so many trips to the dealer it's been (as far as you know) properly serviced at the right times.

Just out of curiosity. I had my Blur choke and die on me just once, but at ~600 miles no problems yet. From a few older threads in the Blur forums, some people start seeing trouble between 3 to 4 thousand miles. And the rest of us cross our fingers and hope it's just the unlucky stand out, but I'd hate to see a lot of problems once everyone starts hitting 10k or something.

It's been serviced religiously. The first service was done by the dealer as usual, and I swapped out both the gear and engine oil at 2000 miles with fresh synthetic. I know it's a little bit of overkill to do it that often, but that's what I did with the Rattler and it seemed a small price to pay for always knowing I had really good oil in the bike.

It's at 3700 miles now, so yeah, all this trouble probably starting happening around the 2000-2500 mile mark... As I said in the letter, the worst part is that up until the trouble started, the Blur was an incredible scooter, and handled as well as a sport bike. It was just an amazing piece of machinery back when it worked.

Off topic but not.....hey AWinn!

Just returned from Burlington Vt. Scooter place called The Daily Rider. They service what looks like every type of scoot and motorcycle, new or vintage. The mechanic there was beautiful, brilliant, witty, funny, interested in my blackjack Lola and he rides a two stroke Stella with a crazy loud pipe.....if I didn't fancy the other team, , I'd hope he didn't have a girlfriend.....

He did my oil and filter....said she was a little rich but good. Oil looked nice, air filter was a bit dirtier than expected, but all in all she was tip top.

Then he proceeded to ask if I wanted to drag race! Awesome!

My girl said yes....very bumpy side road....no gloves, just helmet....she didn't floor it so he thinks he "won". I'll give it to him.

So, after all the stress of it, I LOVE THE DAILY RIDER now!

He also ordered a part for our Pamplona to be sent to us.

My blackjack first service price? Less that 70 bucks.

And Word to ANCA'S Vespa in Schenectady NY too, take all this advice to heart, and stop taking us for granted. I drove 3 hours instead and will again!

Sorry for semi-hijacking, and I'll be watching to see what Genuine does for you. I hope they don't shoot themselves in the tire on this, we are a very close knit kinda group and we all take problems with our scoots and dealers personally.....whether it's MY dealer or scoot or not!



Hope all goes well with your Blur man!

Mtlgrlie wrote:Off topic but not.....hey AWinn!

Just returned from Burlington Vt. Scooter place called The Daily Rider. They service what looks like every type of scoot and motorcycle, new or vintage. The mechanic there was beautiful, brilliant, witty, funny, interested in my blackjack Lola and he rides a two stroke Stella with a crazy loud pipe.....if I didn't fancy the other team, , I'd hope he didn't have a girlfriend.....

He did my oil and filter....said she was a little rich but good. Oil looked nice, air filter was a bit dirtier than expected, but all in all she was tip top.

Then he proceeded to ask if I wanted to drag race! Awesome!

My girl said yes....very bumpy side road....no gloves, just helmet....she didn't floor it so he thinks he "won". I'll give it to him.

So, after all the stress of it, I LOVE THE DAILY RIDER now!

He also ordered a part for our Pamplona to be sent to us.

My blackjack first service price? Less that 70 bucks.

And Word to ANCA'S Vespa in Schenectady NY too, take all this advice to heart, and stop taking us for granted. I drove 3 hours instead and will again!

Sorry for semi-hijacking, and I'll be watching to see what Genuine does for you. I hope they don't shoot themselves in the tire on this, we are a very close knit kinda group and we all take problems with our scoots and dealers personally.....whether it's MY dealer or scoot or not!



Hope all goes well with your Blur man!

That's fantastic, I'll probably head up there in the spring! My bf's right hand surgeries are next wednesday, so I'm just going to be doing an oil change and winterizing the Serenity within the week. Once spring rolls around, I'll head up there to VT for sure!

Really sorry to read about your Blur problems. Here in California we have a "lemon" law that says if a dealer/manufacturer can't fix a persistent problem, the consumer has the right to return the vehicle and get his/her money back. Does Washington have a similar law?

babblefish wrote:Really sorry to read about your Blur problems. Here in California we have a "lemon" law that says if a dealer/manufacturer can't fix a persistent problem, the consumer has the right to return the vehicle and get his/her money back. Does Washington have a similar law?

Not really for Washington, just checked for him.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/LemonLaw/General.aspx
"The following vehicles are not covered by the Lemon Law:
Motorcycles with engine displacements of less than 750 cubic centimeters;"

Checked on http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon.php
California might offer some protection, but not as much as for a car: motorcycles are classified differently.

Thanks for the info Edwub, good to know.

Many years ago (before the lemon law), a guy who bought a new car that had a lot of problems that the dealer/manufacturer could not, would not fix got fed-up and started parking his car everyday in front of the dealership (on a public street) with a big sign (with a picture of a huge lemon) on top stating his car was a lemon and that the dealer/manufacturer would not help him. The dealer couldn't do anything about it because he was not on their property. He made it on TV and the local newspaper. The manufacturer finally stepped-in and bought the car back from him.

Not saying Scalpel should do this, but....

Granted, the link below refers to intermittent stalls in automobiles, but I think the last two sections (stalling at idle/stop, and stalling unexpectedly while driving) sound pretty close to what you're experiencing.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/us80530.htm

It'd be good if you could hook up a voltmeter to your battery and give it a quick check when the scoot stalls. Perhaps, just perhaps, your system voltage is momentarily dipping too low. I know that on my Helix, it'll sometimes drop at idle to below 12V due to the second brake light I added.

It'd also be interesting to see if a fresh, new battery cures the problem (not that that's the optimal solution, but it'd certainly help with the diagnosis)



Hope you get a quick answer and a permanent fix.

I just got back from lunch, during which I got a call from Genuine. The gentleman there was very apologetic about the trouble I've had, and wanted to figure out how this can get dealt with in a way that will restore my faith in my scooter.

He went on the explain that after the last "fix", Ducati Seattle sent in my old ECU, which when examined by Genuine, had an error code on it pointing to a problem with the throttle position sensor. Genuine contacted Ducati Seattle about the error last Friday, indicating that the throttle sensor might need replacing and that the scooter probably wasn't fully fixed. Predictably, Ducati Seattle didn't bother to contact me...

Anyway, the Genuine rep was upset that the situation had gone on for so long, and asked if I might be willing to give the repairs one more shot and get the throttle body swapped out. I told him that I wasn't going back to Ducati unless it was to hand back my scooter, and so we agreed that I should take it to Kent Kawasaki for the repair. Kent Kawasaki was where I bought my Roughhouse and my Rattler, and although they're a bit of a ride from Seattle, they're great folks who take the scooter side of their business very seriously. I told the rep at Genuine that I was willing to give this one last shot, but that if this repair doesn't clear up the problem once and for all, I'm done.

I want to give credit to Genuine for contacting me so quickly and really sounding like this matters to them. I hope that they can make this right and that whatever the end result, I can continue to recommend Genuine Scooters to everyone I know.

I'll let you all know how the repair works out, and the final result of all of this. Thanks for all the moral support and encouragement so far!

^^^ hey , that sounds good so far...Hopefully they will get it licked and you will be back on the road. A faulty TPS would def. cause the issue,too.

Hope it works out, I know you will keep us informed!

Scalpel wrote:I just got back from lunch, during which I got a call from Genuine...

I have a feeling you are going to end up impressed by Genuine and with a rocking scooter.

And with a new favorite scooter shop

Just to be fair Genuine offers NO TRAINING to the dealers they supply vehicles they offer! Ask any dealer about technical support piss poor from
Genuine a distributor. I mean c'mon a duc dealer not able to resolve a scooter issue?? Genuine only responds when u make a complaint on a open forum thanks Genuine. Sorry been through this before I hope they (Genuine) help your dealer (technical support) resolve the concern. Best of luck

scooterjon wrote:Just to be fair Genuine offers NO TRAINING to the dealers they supply vehicles they offer! Ask any dealer about technical support piss poor from
Genuine a distributor. I mean c'mon a duc dealer not able to resolve a scooter issue?? Genuine only responds when u make a complaint on a open forum thanks Genuine. Sorry been through this before I hope they (Genuine) help your dealer (technical support) resolve the concern. Best of luck

And you base this on...?

Just to be fair, you are totally full of it. ScooterJon we are all familiar with your trolling habits on MB. All you do is show up from time to time to post negative crap that is baseless. Any search of your previous posts will reveal this. Go troll somewhere else.

scooterjon wrote:Just to be fair Genuine offers NO TRAINING to the dealers they supply vehicles they offer!

Genuine only responds when u make a complaint on a open forum

Nor does Kymco, and others offer training. They should actually REQUIRE it!

The OP had a motive for posting this publicly....(not 100% sure I would've done the same thing), but he elicited a response from Genuine, more than he accomplished previously, so it was effective in that way. Hopefully (probably) they won't have a choice but to see this through to a happy ending for that person now that it's a public spectacle....again I have mixed feelings about this but I'm a bit older and used to doing things pre-internet.

I battled with Piaggio over a bad ET-4 I purchased in 2002 tooth and nail and finally received a replacment scooter. What a PITA that was, but after dropping 11k on a pair and accessories I wasn't about to have the dealer yank my chain, and have my scooter sitting idly in their shop for weeks on end, waiting for it to magically repair itself after the first 3 weeks in the shop.

So, I feel the OP's pain and wish a succesful resolution from Genuine.

Really... trolling full of it ? grow up I am entitled to an opinion whether you Scooter pooter like it or not based on my experience genuine is not all peaches and cream and I hope that the OP will find a solution to the lack of help he has been provided from the dealer and genuine who are directly responsible for customer care. I Agree with Matt it should be a requirement that dealers are trained as well as the distributor offers training and tech support. Ask Mike at NOHO or Glen Bartel at Route 66 does genuine offer technical training on their product?? The answer you will find is NO. Baseless no facts yes

To the OP best of luck I hope that ur scooter is fixed and genuine steps up and does the right thing by either repairing or replacing the scooter. I'm done thank you

The forum usually isn't the best place to hash out dealer issues. In general, dealers don't have a chance to respond and we only get one side of the picture.

Since Genuine responded, we have a good idea of what happened with the scooter. Hopefully this will get resolved.

Ducati Seattle has been selling Genuine for years, but this is a new scooter and it sounds as if the issue was only apparent when Genuine was able to run diagnostics on the ECU. Sorry to hear it took so long, but good it's being dealt with.

scooterjon, the point is that you pop in every now in then to talk smack about Genuine but haven't otherwise participated or contributed to the site or offered much in the way of help to other members. Joining the forum and using it solely to talk shit and grind your axes is basically trolling. If you have anything to contribute, you're welcome to stay. Otherwise, take it elsewhere.

Eric completely understand that I am just hoping that genuine is listening to the customers and supporting their dealers in service and technical support it just bothers me that OP has to express his grievances on a freaking forum which is open to public opinion on the world wide web and that genuine responds to this scootrist only when brought to the publics attention and not beforehand.

On a positive note I enjoy my buddy and so far it's been running great after the rebuild.

scooterjon wrote:it just bothers me that OP has to express his grievances on a freaking forum which is open to public opinion on the world wide web and that genuine responds to this scootrist only when brought to the publics attention and not beforehand.

Except we really don't know if that's what happened. He sent an email to Genuine on Tuesday night and received a phone call in response on Wednesday. It's now as i he'd been trying in vain to contact them over and over and had failed.

We have many reports of members getting communications from Genuine after a tech issue.

We (and you) have no idea how common it is for someone to write them or call and get assistance without posting on MB. It's not as if the every Genuine owner in the country is a member. With most other companies, customers never get any kind of contact of that sort regardless of how much they complain and where they do it.

I've heard of direct company assistance or tech intervention from Kymco on a couple occasions, but never from any other company regardless of circumstance. If you can dig up any instances of a corporate rep from Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, SYM, or any other major scooter company having this kind of contact with customers, I'd love to hear of it and read owner reports about it.

I don't see why Genuine needs to offer training. It's not like a ducati engine that requires specialty tools and custom training...the mechanics of these scooters are pretty universal to someone with motorcycle wrench training (a plus in my book).

Glad to hear Genuine responded.
They've got a good track record with that. Couple that with a dealer/mechanic you can trust to take a scooter seriously and you're golden. It's one of the reasons I'll always recommend my local shop (Myers) and Genuine scooters to others.

Genuine offers video training. I know Piaggio does live training seminars, but they've "more money than sense" as the saying goes. I don't think any of the other small scooter companies do it.

Regardless, training seminars won't address every problem with every scooter. Sometimes, parts need to go back to the manufacturer for diagnosis.

So far, what I'm hearing here is mostly issues with the dealer from the get go. Genuine's going above and beyond to resolve this. It sucks that it's taken so long.

I was thinking of those detailed training/how to videos too.

ericalm wrote:Genuine's going above and beyond to resolve this...

As they ALWAYS do. Frankly I think Genuine have quite amazing customer care. I have yet to find one single example of something out of the ordinary happening with a scooter that, once Genuine became aware of it, they have not done back flips to correct. Really very impressive.

I have a story of SYM/carter bros., before the fire, being very helpful in solving a problem that existed from the beginning with their bike. The dealer wanted a lot of money for something that made no sense and would not help. The dealer had already had several failed attempts to fix it. I was not interested in paying more for no solution. I asked for my bike back from the dealer and called SYM. They believed that they knew what it was (bike needed to be rejetted) and they offered to contact the dealer and have them do it for no charge to me or they would walk me through doing it myself. I did it myself with their help and was very happy with their assistance. The bike has been a champ ever since.

scooterjon wrote:On a positive note I enjoy my buddy and so far it's been running great after the rebuild.

So, if that is true - why does it say "Broken Buddy 150" below your screen name on all your posts? Wouldn't simply "Buddy 150" be more to the point - and the truth?

scooterjon wrote:Just to be fair Genuine offers NO TRAINING to the dealers they supply vehicles they offer! Ask any dealer about technical support piss poor from
Genuine a distributor. I mean c'mon a duc dealer not able to resolve a scooter issue?? Genuine only responds when u make a complaint on a open forum thanks Genuine. Sorry been through this before I hope they (Genuine) help your dealer (technical support) resolve the concern. Best of luck

They don't have to offer training. If the dealer doesn't know how to service the vehicle, they shouldn't sell new ones under warranty that they may have to perform warranty services on, or offer service on the vehicle at all. It's that simple. It's the dealer's responsibility to make sure they can service vehicles properly, not Genuine- Genuine's only concern is whether they are being represented by the dealer in a positive light or not, and in this case they were not.

If you hate Genuine that much, GTFO. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to here about it.

For most riders/drivers, the dealer IS the manufacturer or importer. What you see on your local level seriously impacts your impression of the brand. Here in the Tucson area, ScootOver is the Genuine dealer, and you couldn't ask for better customer support. In other parts of the country, Genuine customers might not be as fortunate. In 5 years of Stella ownership my only complaint about Genuine is that they have yet to put their Classic Cruiser on the market. But I think I'll manage to survive.

Scalpel wrote:He went on the explain that after the last "fix", Ducati Seattle sent in my old ECU, which when examined by Genuine, had an error code on it pointing to a problem with the throttle position sensor.

In this day and age when vehicles are so computerized isn't it normal for a dealer (car or motorcycle) to be able to read error codes in the ECU? It doesn't seem to make much sense that it needs to be sent back to the manufacturer/importer to figure out the error codes.

Ralph

I blame the dealer for this one. He's just throwing parts at it and hopes he fixes it. This is always a bad idea, but he's willing to do it because he can write the parts off under warranty. "Replaced all the major parts" and it still doesn't work? This dealer is really dumb and too lazy to test their "repairs". They replaced an ECU and didn't even bother to find out what trouble codes were registered? They deserve all the bad publicity they get. This is the worst kind of people to deal with. Just know that if your scoot was out of warranty, he would be charging you for all the parts and labor on stuff that you didn't need. Go get your new throttle positioner installed and enjoy your Blur... and then find a new shop to work with.

uncleralph wrote:In this day and age when vehicles are so computerized isn't it normal for a dealer (car or motorcycle) to be able to read error codes in the ECU? It doesn't seem to make much sense that it needs to be sent back to the manufacturer/importer to figure out the error codes.

I wondered about this as well. My servicing dealer can read ECU error codes on my bikes. Is it really true that Ducati of Seattle (a fairly good-sized shop in a large city) can not?

And there lies one of my biggest issues with this kind of thread…

Based on one side of it, a lot of assumptions and conjecture get tossed around without any of us really knowing what the dealer has done, how the communications have occurred and how/when this all transpired.

I'm not saying the OP is being deceitful, simply that we never get the whole picture but soon the whole thing will have snowballed into a lot of people thinking this dealer is utter crap based solely on an incomplete picture of this incident.

For whatever reasons, MB threads don't often pop up in my Google alerts yet this one did. As a whole, the thread has the potential to be horribly misleading for people searching for info about Genuine or Ducati Seattle. Most of us are seeing it in the context of everything else on MB. That may not be true for others. The overwhelming majority of people perusing MB at most times are not registered and active members.

We should all be aware of these things when choosing our words, particularly when it comes to pointing fingers and assigning blame in situations we're not involved in and have limited information about.

ericalm wrote:And there lies one of my biggest issues with this kind of thread…

Based on one side of it, a lot of assumptions and conjecture get tossed around without any of us really knowing what the dealer has done, how the communications have occurred and how/when this all transpired.

I'm not saying the OP is being deceitful, simply that we never get the whole picture but soon the whole thing will have snowballed into a lot of people thinking this dealer is utter crap based solely on an incomplete picture of this incident.

For whatever reasons, MB threads don't often pop up in my Google alerts yet this one did. As a whole, the thread has the potential to be horribly misleading for people searching for info about Genuine or Ducati Seattle. Most of us are seeing it in the context of everything else on MB. That may not be true for others. The overwhelming majority of people perusing MB at most times are not registered and active members.

We should all be aware of these things when choosing our words, particularly when it comes to pointing fingers and assigning blame in situations we're not involved in and have limited information about.

As an ex-Seattleite, (but NEVER a Ducati-owner ) I can tell you that Ducati Seattle is the real-deal, and has a great reputation.

Just like Genuine Scooter Company does.

That being said, things DO happen. Defective product or product with defective parts does find its way to the end-user, dealer Technicians can mis-diagnose (theyre human), or keep barking up the wrong tree when trying to diagnose something new, or out of the norm. Some problems are just hard to figure out...especially when ECU's are involved.

I empathize with the OP, I have been there as I mentioned upthread...I also mentioned that I don't particularly think a one-sided consumer complaint or appeal in a public arena is the best avenue, or fairest to all parties involved. Effective? In this case it appears so. But the repercussions someone may suffer; vis a' vis the dealers reputation, and that of their technical folks, the product's reputation etc. is always impacted in a situation such as this and most always negatively.

It's a very fine line in this internet driven age, but at the end of the day we typically only hear one side of these situations, and thats always of a scorned consumer. Like it or not, their may be more to the story, or some technical facts we don't know about regarding this entire scenario and more.

I'm pleased that the OP is getting some forward motion as a result of this public appeal, but I can't help think it may be at the expense of someone's reputation, time, or feelings.

To be clear, I only posted this as my own personal experience, not as an indictment of Ducati Seattle or Genuine Scooters. Eric is right that I only bring my own perspective on this.

As long as the thread stays unlocked I'll continue to provide updates, with the hope that the situation concludes happily. I didn't intend for this to just be a gripe thread.

Scalpel wrote:As long as the thread stays unlocked I'll continue to provide updates, with the hope that the situation concludes happily.

Thanks! As long as the discussion stays civil and reasonable I don't see a need to lock it!

I didn't intend for this to just be a gripe thread.

These things tend to take on a life of their own!

Jon, we are sorry to hear you are still having trouble with your Blur. When we last contacted you on 9/29 a few days after the ECU was replaced you said the scooter was running great.. I see no record of you reporting any other runability issues until your post here? I may be wrong but Elliot can not remember any other contact either.
I want to also clarify that Genuine had no technical manuals and very little info on the new FI system on the Blur when we started asking for help when you first had problems. Here is one of the e mail communication we had with GSC about your scooter and the tests we had performed using parts off of one of our new 220's.

"On 8/24/2011 6:45 PM, Elliot wrote:
I appreciate all of your help. The customer is getting somewhat frustrated with this problem and before we bring the bike back in the shop for the third time to try and fix the same problem that we will be able to send him out for good. Since we have swapped out the idle speed control motor, the temp sensor, and the o2 sensors with no change and the ecu swap makes the problem go away immediately and permanently, it would be a good idea to have an ecu ready to go when we bring the machine in. If we would be able to return the part if not needed I would be more than happy to order one to have in hand. We are pretty confident that it will need one we just are not positive and do not want to get stuck. All I need is a part number to order.
Thanks, Elliot"

Now I certainly understand your frustration and I may be wrong that we had not heard back from you since you picked up the scooter? We are not able to add notes to a closed out repair order so I see no evidence of more issues? The last thing we want to see is someone having to return for the same issues over and over.. I am curious though why did you not contact us again to let us know after the ECU was replaced you were still having issues? A month later you instead blast us and Genuine online?
Last, I appreciate having the opportunity on MB to at least share more of the story .. I hope Kent is able to pinpoint your issue..

Nice to hear from Ducati Seattle! Kudos Hoping this goes in a good direction for everyone.

Folks, scooterjon has been banned for trolling. I don't usually discuss bannings or explain them on the forum, but this one is SPECIAL.

topic20456.html

They did it!

I got a call on Friday from Steve at Kent Kawasaki, letting me know that he found the source of all the problems plaguing my Blur. It turns out that the main problem had nothing to do with the fuel injection system.

It was the valves. Apparently they were so tight that the engine wasn't getting a full compression cycle, robbing the engine of power and causing it to die and to not idle properly. Steve adjusted the valves back to spec, tested it out and it ran perfectly. To his credit, he told me to call back on Saturday because he wanted to try starting it after the bike was nice and cold overnight, just to be sure that the problem was resolved.

Saturday afternoon I picked up the Blur and rode it the 30 miles home without a single problem, even when I purposefully put it into situations that had caused it to fail me before. It performed flawlessly. Sunday morning my wife and I woke up to near-freezing weather and headed out for breakfast on the scooters. Once again, my scooter ran perfectly, dealing with the very cold conditions without hesitation or complaint. As an added bonus, I had become so used to the lack of power the Blur used to have, the newly-fixed Blur feels like a whole new bike!

I want to give huge thanks to Massimo at Genuine Scooter Co., and to the Steve at Kent Kawasaki. Steve and Massimo went above and beyond to make sure that this story had a happy ending. I would not hesitate to buy another scooter from them, knowing that both Genuine and the team at Kent Kawasaki will do whatever it takes to help out a scooterist in need. Thank you!

Glad the mystery was solved so you can get back on the road again!

Lotrat wrote:I blame the dealer for this one. He's just throwing parts at it and hopes he fixes it. This is always a bad idea, but he's willing to do it because he can write the parts off under warranty. "Replaced all the major parts" and it still doesn't work? This dealer is really dumb and too lazy to test their "repairs". They replaced an ECU and didn't even bother to find out what trouble codes were registered? They deserve all the bad publicity they get. This is the worst kind of people to deal with. Just know that if your scoot was out of warranty, he would be charging you for all the parts and labor on stuff that you didn't need. Go get your new throttle positioner installed and enjoy your Blur... and then find a new shop to work with.

So the throttle positioner was another part just being thrown at the problem too?

Glad you found someone to check the basics as to rule out possible issues and that you got your ride fixed!