Does Genuine have a tie-in with TGB?

Chessy1 · Post by **Chessy1** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:23 am

Since TGB does not seem to have a big presence in N. America, I would be curious if GSC would have flexibility to bring in some of there products. I know looking at there web site, they have a very interesting 300 cc scoot which could nicely fill a avoid not supported by Genuine.

It almost reminds me of the Sym Citycom, just with a 300 cc engine vs. 263 cc.

http://www.tgbscooters.com.au/xmotion.php

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:39 am

Have not looked at the website but a 300cc could be a true 263.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:47 am

A 300cc that puts out 17.2hp? Pretty anemic.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 am

Uggh. No.

Genuine's done a good job over-all of quality control. Better than Sym, actually. TGB wouldn't fit into that at all, although they are a huge step above the super-generic models.

I'm not saying that all TGB's are bad. I'm saying that it's less of a crap shoot than the super-generics, but it's still a crap shoot.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:41 am

bigbropgo wrote:Have not looked at the website but a 300cc could be a true 263.

264cc. Good guess. What's with certain manufacturers rounding up some of their engine sizes by such ridiculously huge amounts? (yes we're talking about you Kymco) Put a 264cc next to a real 300cc and it is going to crawl. (Or a 161cc next to a 200cc Kymco)

Round up a bit 161 to 170 or 264 to 270, if you must, but why not just be accurate?

pattio · Post by **pattio** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:44 pm

Chessy1 wrote:Since TGB does not seem to have a big presence in N. America, I would be curious if GSC would have flexibility to bring in some of there products. I know looking at there web site, they have a very interesting 300 cc scoot which could nicely fill a avoid not supported by Genuine.

In answer to your original question of 'could Genuine hypothetically re-brand a TGB scooter to add a bigger model or models to their line-up?'

In my opinion the answer is anything is possible, but that I think that particular outcome is unlikely. It may seem like Genuine should be able to 'pick up' just about anything and add it to their line, just like you might see products by both Michelin and Continental in the Scooterworks Direct catalog, but motor vehicles have so much complexity involved that even the world's biggest manufacturers have to carefully target, plan, and choose what market their products can be sold in.

Bureaucratic hurdles aside, there are Relationship issues with creating these partnerships between Western small business and Far Eastern manufacturing. Think of Genuine and PGO sitting together in the corner of the bar. TGB hangs at that bar too. They've kind of all hung there for years. You think maybe Genuine should date TGB 'cause of something its not getting from PGO? It wouldn't have to mean anything right? As the saying goes, it's complicated.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:09 pm

pattio wrote: Think of Genuine and PGO sitting together in the corner of the bar. TGB hangs at that bar too. They've kind of all hung there for years. You think maybe Genuine should date TGB 'cause of something its not getting from PGO? It wouldn't have to mean anything right? As the saying goes, it's complicated.

What an odd analogy...

Just meaningless "manufacturing"? I think there's enough bastard scooters out there already. And once PGO finds out that Genuine picked up a "QC reputation", well that relationship will never be the same. You can treat it, but it never really goes away. You can also pass it on to all your other "business" partners.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:34 pm

Lostmycage wrote:
pattio wrote: Think of Genuine and PGO sitting together in the corner of the bar. TGB hangs at that bar too. They've kind of all hung there for years. You think maybe Genuine should date TGB 'cause of something its not getting from PGO? It wouldn't have to mean anything right? As the saying goes, it's complicated.
What an odd analogy...

Just meaningless "manufacturing"? I think there's enough bastard scooters out there already. And once PGO finds out that Genuine picked up a "QC reputation", well that relationship will never be the same. You can treat it, but it never really goes away. You can also pass it on to all your other "business" partners.

Analogy WIN.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:18 pm

Genuine might well have contractual limitations preventing it from consorting with other manufacturers (to continue LMC's analogy after closing time).

Tell you what though, some years back, if the local dealer had the TGB Delivery 150 in stock, I'd be riding that today. That sucker is just ugly enough to be awesome.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:40 pm

Syd wrote:Genuine might well have contractual limitations preventing it from consorting with other manufacturers (to continue LMC's analogy after closing time).

Tell you what though, some years back, if the local dealer had the TGB Delivery 150 in stock, I'd be riding that today. That sucker is just ugly enough to be awesome.

That would be what happens when you conduct "business relations" within the same "corporation".

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:24 pm

Wonder why they went with the odd stack-barrelled double mufflers? Seems an unnecessary complication on a single.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:32 pm

It is certainly true that Genuine has business relationships with both PGO and LML, so another such relationship is not impossible. More to the point though, PGO makes many models that Genuine does not import here. Genuine has discontinued some of the PGO models they did import because they did not sell well. I think it is safe to speculate that Genuine is very cautious about models they decide to import and the likelihood of good sales in the US. Look at all those well-designed and built Piaggio and Aprillia models - 250, 300, 350, 400, 500. How many of them do you actually see on the road? I'm sure Genuine is keeping track. Just like they are counting how many Blur 220s they sell.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:10 pm

Yes, I'm sure Genuine doesn't want a fiscal repeat of 2009/2010. I'm betting they're extremely cautious about planning, and maybe more than a little gun-shy after the Nightmare on Stella-4T-Street.

If I were in the scooter sourcing/badging/distributing business, I'd be thinking hard about my fleet of models, realizing where the holes in the lineup are, who (PGO/LML) can provide me with something to fill the holes, and if not, do I need to go to a third manufacturer, the best estimates of the demand several years forward, and how many bikes I need to commit to purchase from my manufacturers, plus an appropriate load of parts. I have to put training and support in place for my dealers, too, just to keep 'em.

Not an easy task, is it? It's easy for us (well, Jijifer, really

) to say "give me my Cruiser now!", but adding a new model to the fleet, especially if it has to come from another vendor, is a huge, risky undertaking, especially when you have to watch the moves Piaggio, Vespa, and Kymco make. Oh, and if Honda or Yamaha wake up one day, remove their collective heads from their orifices and push a few mid-size scooters into the US through their dealer networks, it's nightmare time again for a rebadger like Genuine.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:12 pm

I doubt any manufacturers or distributors are going to make any bold moves any time soon.

"Rebadger?" Are those the fierce little furry things?

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:56 pm

TGB already has a distributor here in the states, Peirspeed. So it is unlike anyone will work around that relationship.

TGB has one 50cc scooter that is top quality, the Key West. It is seen in scooter rental fleets. I've rented one and my wife rented a Buddy 50cc. The Key West was much faster.

The "300cc" TGB models are the X-Motion 300EFI which is ugly.

and the Bellavita (GTS clone) which is not too bad.

Neither one is in the states.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:04 pm

That Bellavita looks really sharp!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:07 pm

Southerner wrote:"Rebadger?" Are those the fierce little furry things?

Yeah. Rebadger don't care. Rebadger don't give a s****.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Somebody needs to design a really butch scooter and name it the Honey Badger.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:24 pm

pcbikedude, Im having a hard time with The Buddy 50cc being alot slower that the Key west. Restricted maybe?? Im not saying its not possible but.....

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:34 pm

Raiderfn311 wrote:pcbikedude, Im having a hard time with The Buddy 50cc being alot slower that the Key west. Restricted maybe?? Im not saying its not possible but.....

Seems unlikely to me too. My Buddy 50 is pretty darn fast off the line, and derestricted it gets up to 40mph quickly, so by either definition of "fast" it's not likely to be outclassed by another 50cc.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:57 pm

I weigh more than my wife by 50 lbs. I had to slow down so she could keep up on the Buddy. They were both rentals.

It was just one experience. I have no other evidence that this is widely true.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:06 am

Well your original point was that the Key West was a good bike, so I'll take your word on that.

Modern Buddy

Does Genuine have a tie-in with TGB?

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