Modern Buddy

I know this isn't common practice in the U.S., but is there somewhere I can get an "L" (Learner) or "N" (New Driver) sign for my scooter (eventually getting one), and preferably for low-cost?

I don't think anyone here would know what that means. I wouldn't suggest something like that anyhow, since some people like to make a sport out of harassing new drivers (identified by something like a Drivers Ed sign).

pdxrita wrote:I don't think anyone here would know what that means. I wouldn't suggest something like that anyhow, since some people like to make a sport out of harassing new drivers (identified by something like a Drivers Ed sign).

+1 on this. people won't look out for you more. or be any more understanding. just practice and feel comfortable before you go out and brave the streets.

teabow1 wrote:I know this isn't common practice in the U.S., but is there somewhere I can get an "L" (Learner) or "N" (New Driver) sign for my scooter (eventually getting one), and preferably for low-cost?

OK, I have to ask what everyone may be thinking:

Why? I don't get the reasoning. You have a license right? Then, you're certified. Why scream to the world (the very few in the US who even know what an 'L' plate made for a completely different driving system means) that you feel you are under-prepared to operate a machine you already have a permit for? If you don't think you're ready to drive it like a certified operator, you shouldn't of got the full license then.

teabow1 wrote:I know this isn't common practice in the U.S., but is there somewhere I can get an "L" (Learner) or "N" (New Driver) sign for my scooter (eventually getting one), and preferably for low-cost?

You might as well put one of these on your back:

Frankly I'm surprised by peoples responses here. The L sign is very common, internationally recognized, and a well respected part of the driver education process throughout the world.

The reason you might have a tough time buying one teabow1 is because the signs are part of each countries licensing process and thus are regulated by the government body in charge. In countries that use the Learners (L) or New Driver (N) sign, (UK, Aus, NZ, Canada etc, etc, etc,) there are fines for not using them, misusing them, or altering them. So I wouldn't expect to find one being sold casually.

If you want to use one, and I have seen a number of people here in the USA who have put one on their scooter (usually a vintage scooter) just for kicks or for the novelty and obvious ties to scooting's UK roots, you are probably best to just make one yourself.

In regards to the L sign being anything more than a novelty here in the States, it might be recognized, but I wouldn't count on it helping you.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:Frankly I'm surprised by peoples responses here. The L sign is very common, internationally recognized, and a well respected part of the driver education process throughout the world.

The reason you might have a tough time buying one teabow1 is because the signs are part of each countries licensing process and thus are regulated by the government body in charge. In countries that use the Learners (L) or New Driver (N) sign, (UK, Aus, NZ, Canada etc, etc, etc,) there are fines for not using them, misusing them, or altering them. So I wouldn't expect to find one being sold casually.

If you want to use one, and I have seen a number of people here in the USA who have put one on their scooter (usually a vintage scooter) just for kicks or for the novelty and obvious ties to scooting's UK roots, you are probably best to just make one yourself.

You obviously haven't spent much time in "Redneckistan" aka Arizona. Many driver still don't know how to use a roundabout or what the HOV lane is for! There's even popular conjecture that you legally aren't required to have license plates! (Something about how the state government has no right to 'tax' you as long as you're on federal highways, or some stupid reasoning like that)

The "L" plate would mean nothing to them.

And, it just makes no sense being in America

I have a set of L stickers that a friend brought back from a visit to UK at my request. I don't give two shites that no one over here knows what they're for...it's a joke. For the life of me I cannot remember the brand name.

Check Amazon and eBay.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AA-Adhesive-Lea ... d_sim_kh_5

And just for fun, L plates from around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-plate

And apparently my beloved great state of New Jersey requires special stickers for probationary licensed drivers. This would never work in Rhode Island as people here stick their registration stickers all over the plates to indicate how long they've lived here. When I see a plate plastered in 8 to 10 reg stickers, I keep a lot of distance.

Hey, if he wants to do it just to be different, then right on! But, to have some false sense that this will do something for his safety is just silly.

neotrotsky wrote:There's even popular conjecture [in Arizona] that you legally aren't required to have license plates!

The "L" plate would mean nothing to them.

You really do need to move I've heard Income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, but the yearly sales tax AZ calls a registration fee? That's a new one on me. And I've hung out with some hardcores. Probably the same bright lights that believe the income tax is unconstitutional.

No matter, I wouldn't know what the big L meant either.

I'd guess that the obvious answer is recognition of the "L" may differ from region to region, depending on the makeup of the community/city or for how __ (what's the non-offensive, proper word: "cultured' ' educated' "exposed" "travelled" "well-versed"?) they might be.

Do you feel like you're in a region of the US where a lot of people would recognize it? Would you expect them to react differently?

I grew up in Maryland, but have been driving the last 10 years of my life all over California. Mostly the SF Bay Area, and the last few years in Los Angeles. We're certainly better than Arizona (the way Neotrostsky posts, I can't imagine much places being worse : P) My gut feeling is that it'd be better recognized throughout the Bay Area as a whole, but there is also a tendency to tease "Drivers Education" cars - especially from high schoolers. The "target on your back" thing isn't completely a joke - luckily, it's less obvious as not as many people would recognize the "L" and hopefully those that do wouldn't consider it a target.

I think Skootz summed it up perfectly.
"In regards to the L sign being anything more than a novelty here in the States, it might be recognized, but I wouldn't count on it helping you."

Also, I can't help but agree with Neotrotsky somewhat:
If you don't feel that confident yet, practice more before hitting the streets. I've spent a lot of time in Sydney, and have tons of family there. To me (through them), the plate system was really just legal enforcement.
It's not so much of a "I'm a newbie" please take caution but more of a "I'm young, and/or I'm a newbie and am not allowed to be out at XYZ time and/or have a speed limit of ABC mph" etc. Like publicly branding your vehicle to ensure legal compliance with their driving system. Other than as a novelty for foreign scooters, I'm not sure I see the point of trying to carry that system over here. I know very few people (actually none) who consider it much more than just legal sillyness.

Syd wrote:

neotrotsky wrote:There's even popular conjecture [in Arizona] that you legally aren't required to have license plates!

The "L" plate would mean nothing to them.

You really do need to move I've heard Income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, but the yearly sales tax AZ calls a registration fee? That's a new one on me. And I've hung out with some hardcores. Probably the same bright lights that believe the income tax is unconstitutional.

No matter, I wouldn't know what the big L meant either.

I'm in Mesa. That should explain everything. Although, I may be making the brave jump to South Scottsdale if my old job hires me back. ASU employees get some perks on some properties that would make rent quite affordable

I don't know ANYBODY (around here/personally... except for my Italian boyfriend) who would see an L or N and know what it meant. In that regard, I can't see that you'd be harrassed, since nobody would understand- they'd probably just think it was part of your scooter personalization.

If you want to do it, then do it- I'm sure you can find them on eBay or something. But I sincerely doubt it will help you in any way. It has nothing to do with regions of the US... 80-90+% of cagers in any given place will not know what it stands for. So if you ask me, it's just a waste of your money- people here are not knowledgeable enough of this practice abroad for you to count on it protecting you, or communicating for you, in any way.

EDIT: Just for fun, apparently in Italy it's a "P".

LunaP wrote:
EDIT: Just for fun, apparently in Italy it's a "P".

Yep, for Principiante.

Honestly this is something that in Europe is required to show while you drive with your provisional license. Back home where people recognize the sign, it is very common for other drivers to have a very short temper in your regards and harassment is not uncommon.
Like others have said, you passed your MSF course, practice your skills and be confident, no need for any sign. Assuming someone will actually notice you... and assuming they see the sign... then assume that they will know what the sign means and further assume that they will actually adjust their driving to give you more space.... By the time you are done with all these assumptions the odds of it doing anything are pretty low

Just to actually answer the OPs question. I would print one out and then go to Kinki's or where ever and have it laminated for a couple of dollars.

siobhan wrote:.....And apparently my beloved great state of New Jersey requires special stickers for probationary licensed drivers.....

Yeah, but just about every parent here is refusing to comply. The popular objection is that it acts as a flag drawing sex offenders to young/teens drivers. My objection is that I refuse to "tag" my kids (who've never been in any trouble with the law whatsoever) until they come up with special license plate tags for drunk drivers, pedophiles, etc. Until then, the state of NJ can GFIIMW.

Additionally, the only thing "L" denotes here is:

The only thing I can add is to please don't judge Arizona on Neotrosky's descriptions. He lives in what the rest of the state "affectionately" calls "east LA. The Phoenix metro area is an island to itself, and much of what Neo says is true - of Phoenix.

Tucson is an amazing place for scooters. We have no freeways. All surface streets with wide lanes. We are a huge cycling community and drivers are used to sharing the road with 2 wheeled vehicles.

Just sayin'

Howard

Howardr wrote:The only thing I can add is to please don't judge Arizona on Neotrosky's descriptions. He lives in what the rest of the state "affectionately" calls "east LA. The Phoenix metro area is an island to itself, and much of what Neo says is true - of Phoenix.

Tucson is an amazing place for scooters. We have no freeways. All surface streets with wide lanes. We are a huge cycling community and drivers are used to sharing the road with 2 wheeled vehicles.

Just sayin'

Howard

Well, Phoenix proper isn't so bad. The East Valley outside of Tempe... yeah. Alot of is is not such a happy place outside of the master planned communities that have tons of foreclosures. But, again, I'm moving asap. And once you go West of Phoenix into Glendale, it's not much better.

Phoenix and Tempe are pretty nice places (when you can avoid Sheriff Joe's "Posse" trying to control every aspect of law enforcement out from under the local police). But, the further you get form the downtown core, the more prevalent why Maricopa County is at the bottom of the barrel for education and why Meth use is so high here. The only other places that aren't that affected are North Scottsdale/Paradise Valley (for the 1% types who like their multi-million dollar mansions) and Awatukee for those who would like to live in North Scottsdale but can't afford the mortgage.

We return to your regularly scheduled post...

charlie55 wrote:The popular objection is that it acts as a flag drawing sex offenders to young/teens drivers.

Seriously? Some people have been watching way too much TV.

TVB wrote:

charlie55 wrote:The popular objection is that it acts as a flag drawing sex offenders to young/teens drivers.

Seriously? Some people have been watching way too much TV.

I agree.

Tv like this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/71MCA59Krls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is what happens to threads in the winter, when people haven't been out riding enough. Shit gets weird.

The OP didn't say why she wanted the L sign, just that she wanted one. Some people in the US do have them, mostly as a kind of inside joke or tip of the helmet to the Brits.

Wow, who knew my "simple" (or so I thought) question would generate such an interesting discussion : - )

Anyway, thanks for all the responses! I understand it's not popular in the U.S.

ericalm wrote:

This is what happens to threads in the winter, when people haven't been out riding enough. Shit gets weird.

And hear I thought it's just get kinda quiet. Never a dull moment on MB

I didn't even know anyplace in America does the "L" thing. I know when I lived in England they do. Or maybe it varies by state. California doesn't cos IMO it doesn't help. People are still gonna drive just as crazy around you the only difference is you'll have a funny looking "L" stuck on your scoot. I think a lot of people won't know what it means....

Paint your rear fender bright yellow. Everybody in North Carolina knows what that means, even in The Triangle.

jrsjr wrote:Paint your rear fender bright yellow. Everybody in North Carolina knows what that means, even in The Triangle.

Whuzzat mean?

ericalm wrote:

jrsjr wrote:Paint your rear fender bright yellow. Everybody in North Carolina knows what that means, even in The Triangle.

Whuzzat mean?

Rookie driver in NASCAR. Usage: Kyle Busch dodged the yellow bumper to the highside in Turn 4.

jrsjr wrote:

ericalm wrote:

jrsjr wrote:Paint your rear fender bright yellow. Everybody in North Carolina knows what that means, even in The Triangle.

Whuzzat mean?

Rookie driver in NASCAR. Usage: Kyle Busch dodged the yellow bumper to the highside in Turn 4.

Google translate needs a module for "Stuff you just don't get or have any knowledge of."

teabow1 wrote:I know this isn't common practice in the U.S., but is there somewhere I can get an "L" (Learner) or "N" (New Driver) sign for my scooter (eventually getting one), and preferably for low-cost?

Length.....Never Before Seen....a tatter....BOOYAA

I would not recommend this getting a sign that tells every one you are a new rider, you are more likely to be harassed just remember to always ride in the right lane when possible, if you find someone is tailgating you find a safe place to pull off the road and let them pass. also take a class it is a little expensive, but after completing the class you can get your M endorsement, it can also save you money on insurance.

I've thought about slinging raw eggs.

the very BEST thing you can do in lieu of a sticker is take beginning rider course offered by your state.Then:
1)practice a LOT-in parking lots swerving and stopping. At first practice the route you want to take-such as work, a friends house, the store, what not early Sunday morning so you can evaluate things you don't think about in a car-such as: poor pavement conditions, sudden merges, dangerous left turns without a turning lane. I may make my turns at different places on the scooter than a car. Rear ended on scooter=maybe dead. rear ended in car typically = hurt neck. Entering my 7th year of riding, I don't pretest roads anymore, with the exception of avoiding S.Cal freeways at night or rush hour until I have seen them under better conditions.

2)wear proper gear, always. Highly recommend full face helmet. Not in the mood to start an argument about it though.

3) Huge thing to know- the speedo on on all 2 wheelers under estimate speed. Don't tick people off by going under the speed limit. They are likely to be aggressive which will equal danger. This does not mean drive like a bat out of hell, but ride within the speed range of most drivers.

4) Own the lane. Don't go over to the right portion of the lane so cars can pass or hog your part of the lane. If you can't go as fast as the cars on the given road, find another road.

Don't forget to practice,practice, practice, and never become over confident.

Raiderfn311 wrote:I've thought about slinging raw eggs.

A Harley rider I know said he carries ball bearings...I don't know if he was kidding or not....

Here you go - magnetic, but I bet you could use some automotive trim tape to affix it to a non-metal scooter. There are a couple of people around here who have them, some have been riding a very long time. It's more of an inside joke, but when you think about it we really all are just "learners".

http://www.lbcarco.com/cgi-bin/gen5?nex ... 5132951&p=

peabody99 wrote:the very BEST thing you can do in lieu of a sticker is take beginning rider course offered by your state.Then:
1)practice a LOT-in parking lots swerving and stopping. At first practice the route you want to take-such as work, a friends house, the store, what not early Sunday morning so you can evaluate things you don't think about in a car-such as: poor pavement conditions, sudden merges, dangerous left turns without a turning lane. I may make my turns at different places on the scooter than a car. Rear ended on scooter=maybe dead. rear ended in car typically = hurt neck. Entering my 7th year of riding, I don't pretest roads anymore, with the exception of avoiding S.Cal freeways at night or rush hour until I have seen them under better conditions.

2)wear proper gear, always. Highly recommend full face helmet. Not in the mood to start an argument about it though.

3) Huge thing to know- the speedo on on all 2 wheelers under estimate speed. Don't tick people off by going under the speed limit. They are likely to be aggressive which will equal danger. This does not mean drive like a bat out of hell, but ride within the speed range of most drivers.

4) Own the lane. Don't go over to the right portion of the lane so cars can pass or hog your part of the lane. If you can't go as fast as the cars on the given road, find another road.

Don't forget to practice,practice, practice, and never become over confident.

+1
people would tailgate/pass me aggressively when i drove according to my buddy speedo,, eventually i learned