Modern Buddy

My wife and I have chosen to sell my car and be a one car household. Yep...we're keeping hers. On cold and/or wet days, we'll ride to work together. On nice days, she'll drive her car and I'll take my St. Tropez. We've told very few friends and no family members about our big change. I was just informed that my parents are freaking out about our decision and don't want their baby boy riding a dangerous scooter. Oh...by the way...I'm 32. In most families I would be considered a grown man but apparently in mine I'm still a little boy.

My question is: How have you addressed concerns and objections from family and friends about your decision to ride a scooter, whether it be for leisure or leisure and daily commuting? I've got to see my folks tomorrow for Christmas dinner and I would like to have some good talking points from people who have been here before.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

When you show up for Christmas dinner strut in with all your gear on, slam your helmet on the table, throw your jacket on the floor, and yell for a beer. Oh and hawk a loogie too. When they ask what's going on and that they don't like all this scooter stuff just say it's none of their business and start eating before everyone sits down. That would be awesome. Make sure you record it and post it up for us to watch.

They're right. Two wheeling can be more dangerous, and there's more risks.
But there are benefits as well, or else we wouldn't do it.

Don't downplay whether it's safe. Acknowledge it, but follow up with "I understand the risks, and I am taking as many measures as I can to be safe. However, there are a lot of benefits and we have, after much thought, decided that this is in our best interests. I appreciate your concerns, but please try to understand we have to do what's best for us"

It either opens a conservation, or it tries to lay it down in an respectful 'adult' way. In my opinion, don't argue about it. Address it head on, calmy and firmly.

Adjust the speech as necessary for your family, and anticipate theirresponses - I've had friends who tried that and their parents offers to buy them a car so they could give up on the ridiculousness.

HTM:

I ride my 170 exclusively- Lokky and I only have scoots. I lost my car back in August, due to unexpected damage (I swerved off the road to avoid hitting a dumb cat... there was something in the grass I couldn't see that knocked my engine off all the mounts) that was as costly as the car itself to fix (My 02 Jetta was KBB at about 3K, they wanted 2.5 to repair, plus two tow trips).

I got a scoot because, since I have a coworker who rides a Ruckus full time and had been dating Lokky, I knew quite a bit about them. I knew I could, with the same 4K loan that would only get me a POS car (which would have god knows what problems sooner than I thought) I could get a really nice brand new scooter with a 2-year warranty.

The decision caused a lot of drama in my family- partially because up until now I've had help with all my vehicles. My Jetta was bought for me when I was maybe 19 or 20, so it was in my mothers name, and so was my insurance. Due to a divorce (and three errors, I found out when I went to get the loan) I have terrible credit, so we knew my parents would have to cosign the loan. Getting my Mom to understand the practical reasons for wanting the scooter (fuel economy, better deal overall to purchase new scoot vs old car, etc) was a tall order, but in my situation my parents also had to swallow the fact that I wanted to do it because I wanted to start doing things for myself. I wanted to purchase my own vehicle, even if Mom had to cosign. I wanted my name on the damn thing. I wanted to be able to pay for my own insurance... which, because of the end of my bad marriage I hadn't been able to do... but motorcycle insurance is so much cheaper than car insurance, I can do that now. Putting myself in a situation where I have another debt could have been risky, but I WANTED to do it.

Generally, how I handle my parents disagreeing with me in this manner is- respectfully and quietly ignore them, and do it anyway. Then make a point to show them that it's turned out okay. Sometimes I end up being wrong. I'd say more often than not it smooths over. My mother still 'teases' me and makes comments, and when I broke my hand she said "I told you so" about 20 times, despite the fact that that was the result of me avoiding a MUCH worse crash.

I keep mentioning Mom because Dad was really only against the concept of me riding full time, concerned for my safety. But once he saw the Buddy he was pretty impressed and won over (he used to ride small MC's, and wants one again now because of me)- I think he though it was going to be a lot smaller than it is.


Bottom line is.... they are your family and friends, and they are among the people that have misconceptions about scooters and motorcycles. They don't know about all the cool gear you can get. They probably have never ridden one and don't know how fun it is. Look at this as your chance to educate them about scooters... maybe, like my Dad, their only experiences have been with teeny little China Chuggers that could barely push 40, and the riders were only wearing proper gear on their head- so when they picture you on a scoot, that's what they picture? And your parents will ALWAYS see you as their baby when they are worried about you. I'm 26. That's just the way it is. Annoying, yes, but well-intentioned and very normal. You are in a much better position than I am in, I'd love to still have my Jetta for backup or for longer trips and hauling things around town.

Anyhoo... good luck with your conversion to 'car-light'.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I really appreciate your openness and guidance on how to handle this. I'll probably hold off on slamming my helmet down and yelling for a beer, although that would be a hell of a lot of fun.

Thanks again!

htm9779 wrote:... I'll probably hold off on slamming my helmet down and yelling for a beer...

Awe shucks...

When I first started riding, my parents were against it big time. My dad said that if he ever saw my bike, he would smash it. He would never let me buy my own car either. I had to always ask to borrow his spare junker. I bought a bike anyway and parked it in random locations around the block. My parents saw it, but never knew it was mine. I finally bought my own car once I got out of college, but my dad was always on me about it. I just stopped talking about it with them. I always had fast cars and bikes and it drove him nuts. My kid brother (the baby of the family) decided that he wanted a motorcycle... My dad cleared out the garage for his bike.

Lotrat, it sounds like we have a lot in common. There are two of us in the family. My dad, I love him dearly, was and still is a lot more conservative and strict with me than he is with my sister, who is three years younger. Parents don't make much sense at times!

Be Kind Polite respectful and change the subject. Be aware that this is seldom an issue that responds to logic or information. At least that is my experience. E

You could break the ice by telling them you've taken up motorcycle racing, then when they've been sufficiently horrified by that, tell them it's "just a scooter".

More seriously, showing my parents that I was taking protective gear seriously helped a lot to set them at ease. So did calling it a "moped".

When I went scooter only some of my family had objections, too, I was 35.

So i'm not sure what you situation is. I've been living on my own, supporting myself since I was 18. I live across the country from my family. Nearest direct blood line connection is in Michigan (Mom) and my brother is in Florida. The loudest anti-scoot-only sentiment was coming from my Uncle in Alaska - who I haven't seen in 10 years!

I didn't really take their opinions too seriously since they weren't really protecting me or my life in any other way. THAT SAID I didn't need to cause a rift.

I got my brother onboard first. He instantly recognized that he had no stake in telling me how to live my life so he just asked how I planned on being careful.

Together we went to my mom and this time opened with how I planned on being careful:

msf
riding to my ability
Full gear, all the time
riding smart- finding alternatives during bad weather.

I reminded them I had been a bike commuter for 6 years and didn't even wear a helmet - where was the concern then?! That may have been the biggest ah-ha. Most didn't know I was a bike commuter and didn't own a car for all those years - that's how much they did NOT know about me.

And then I asked something of them:
please look out for scooters/motorcycles when you're driving. Give us space. Look both ways before pulling out of the drive way or into a street. Just do your part to keep me and other cyclists safe and I think we'll all survive

They all came around especially when they saw the joy scooting brought me.

OF COURSE, i got hit just 3 months in and there was "I told you so" going around and around BUT 3 years later everyone accepts that I'm a good rider, doing my part to keep the rubber on the road and they do theirs.

My biggest challenge was getting my fiancee to agree to a scoot instead of a car. Like everyone else, I pointed out the apparent cost-savings (though the gear and awesome gadgets and gizmos can get costly).

In addition to money savings, I pointed out all the safety gear I use EVERY SINGLE RIDE, plus the modifications on the lights (daytime running lights, etc from VooDoo Scooters), the added reflective tape (helmet, too), and most importantly, the basic riding safety course.

I knew I hit a slam-dunk convincing her that yes, while it is dangerous, it would be a heckuvalotta fun for both of us when we went to a local club rally and she met others "just like us."

On a regular basis, I acknowledge her concerns, and tell her I appreciate how much she cares, and that I promise to be safe, ride smart, and never skip my safety gear. When my mom voices her concerns, I told her a full-face helmet would be a great Christmas present, and then explained how much faster I could pay back a loan she gave me.

Each person will be hesitant at first, but show them how much you appreciate their concern, and that you take them seriously... BUT - this is a choice you and spouse have thoroughly discussed and agreed upon, and that you will take every precaution you can. Then - show them how much fun it is!!

My father just texted me. This is his text verbatim.

"Your mother & sister didn't want me to give you this advice but I think this is a bad and dangerous decision. Make sure you have extra life insurance. I love you very much."

Oh yes!!!!! Tomorrow should be a lot of fun

Some years ago, I had a dispute with gravity while on my Honda Shadow motorcycle. Gravity won, and I ended up in the hospital with my leg broken in three places. When I got home, I got a call from Boston. It was my mother, asking me what ever possessed me to do such a crazy thing as own a motorcycle. I was 67 at the time. Parents don't get over being parents.

I've been riding since I was 7 ( I'm 46) and have logged about 400,000 street miles. I am still here, and still riding (and loving it). They will tell you that I am more experienced than you. Thats when you remind them that I was new one day,too. And heard the SAME THINGS.

And hopefully you wear good gear and can explain that to them as well. And practice, learn and get others to teach you as often as possible. I STILL practice certain things. Enjoy, don't sweat the relatives. They are just jealous they don't have a scoot. I'll bet you lunch at least ONE asks you how much fun it is and you can try to sell a scooter

Addressing their concerns in an effective way can be tricky, but I still respectfully took the attitude that it was something that I wanted to do, and it was my choice. I did break my family in gently by being a firefighter/paramedic before the motorcycling. It can be dangerous to go into burning buildings or deal with domestic violence situations, but I did that without injury. Also, my very first call at the fire department was a drunk motorcyclist with an open face helmet who lost front teeth and half of his nose (but not his life), so I was well aware of the potential risks.

I started motorcycling by taking the MSF course, and always wear full gear. I say that I would rather my leather jacket slide down the highway than my bare skin, and that skulls/brains are not made for bouncing on the pavement. I have ridden in enough rain and snow to have gotten that out of my system. 75,000 motorcycle miles later, I got a scooter and continue to love the two-wheeled life.

Good luck!

PeterC wrote:Some years ago, I had a dispute with gravity while on my Honda Shadow motorcycle. Gravity won, and I ended up in the hospital with my leg broken in three places. When I got home, I got a call from Boston. It was my mother, asking me what ever possessed me to do such a crazy thing as own a motorcycle. I was 67 at the time. Parents don't get over being parents.

I love it. That's both too funny and so true.

When my 80 something mother found out I got my scooter, she was not so surprised, but did express concern, and wanted to make sure that I was wearing a leather jacket, helmet and goggles. And then she wanted to know if she could go for a ride on the back.

It just blows my mind how people here in the US freak out when anyone gets a two wheeled machine. "WHAT!?!? You only have ONE car?!?! Are you INSANE!!!!!"

First world frak problems man...

You have a car! That's more than most people have. And, I'm sure you both are grateful for having two machines. If you family can't get over the fact then they need to shut the hell up. It's just that simple. If you dig it, then it works.

Lotrat wrote: [edited for more dramatic reading] When you show up for Christmas dinner, strut in with all your gear on, slam your helmet on the fancy dinner table, throw your jacket on the floor, hawk a loogie to God-knows-where and yell for a beer. When they ask "What's going on?!" and exclaim "We don't Appreciate all this scooter stuff, Mister!" and your little cousin Sally says with a tear in her eye "What's happened to you?" Just say "It's none of your business, man!" and start eating before everyone sits down...

no one else thought this was funny?!
It's like something from a John Hughes movie!

to OP:

htm9779 wrote:My wife and I have chosen to sell my car and be a one car household. Yep...we're keeping hers. On cold and/or wet days, we'll ride to work together. On nice days, she'll drive her car and I'll take my St. Tropez. ...

not on your exact topic, but my 2 cents: my wife and I just did the same thing (from 2 cars to one car and 2 scoots) and ...I am not sure where you live -but here in Colorado, after 7 months I can say that we made the "wrong decision."
I say that because right now on christmas eve eve (workday) it is just too cold for me to ride with the gear I have, I am too busy and poor to buy an armored parka, the storms are too frequent and my wife is too busy. This has led to "traffic" over who gets the car. it sucks.
I am a grown, 32 year old man and I need rides to and from work some days. it is degrading. to top it all off we sold the "better in the snow" car to get more money in our state and now whoever gets the car that day is only half 'winner' because they are sliding around cheating death. anyway, I don't want t be a debbie downer - I just wanted to give some real world experience to this common good idea. it is just not well suited for colorado climates. not year round anyway.

Lovelandstella wrote:

Lotrat wrote: [edited for more dramatic reading] When you show up for Christmas dinner, strut in with all your gear on, slam your helmet on the fancy dinner table, throw your jacket on the floor, hawk a loogie to God-knows-where and yell for a beer. When they ask "What's going on?!" and exclaim "We don't Appreciate all this scooter stuff, Mister!" and your little cousin Sally says with a tear in her eye "What's happened to you?" Just say "It's none of your business, man!" and start eating before everyone sits down...

no one else thought this was funny?!
It's like something from a John Hughes movie!

I though it was.

Thanks to everyone for their responses. My wife had a good time reading them when we got home from work. I appreciate all the great advice and humor! It was much needed

Merry Christmas everyone!

Here is my mother on her 80th birthday, going for a ride in my sidecar (if you can't beat 'em, co-opt 'em )

Great to see the Ladys in the Side Hack! I hope she enjoyed the ride. R

Lovelandstella wrote:

Lotrat wrote: [edited for more dramatic reading] When you show up for Christmas dinner, strut in with all your gear on, slam your helmet on the fancy dinner table, throw your jacket on the floor, hawk a loogie to God-knows-where and yell for a beer. When they ask "What's going on?!" and exclaim "We don't Appreciate all this scooter stuff, Mister!" and your little cousin Sally says with a tear in her eye "What's happened to you?" Just say "It's none of your business, man!" and start eating before everyone sits down...

no one else thought this was funny?!
It's like something from a John Hughes movie!

I thought it was funny. The whole scene would be good, but the loogie part would probably be the part that people remember the most. Like they say, "In a rich man's house, there is no place to spit but his face"

I often get emails from new or aspiring scooterists who want me to help them convince their families that scootering is safe. I disappoint every one of them.

Of course it's not safe. Yes, the risks are much higher than driving a car. Admitting that and accepting it is the first step in becoming a good and responsible rider.

Unfortunately, most people are like I was when I started: deluded or misinformed.

Most of the advice above is sound. Let you family know that you understand the risks and will be taking every step you can to mitigate them. Then actually do it.

If you can wait to sell the car until you've had the scooter a while, that might be a good idea. Even if you take the MSF course, if you're a new rider it may be best to practice on weekends, out of traffic and in non-peak hours before starting to commute by scooter. It's also good to practice the route when there's little or no traffic. You'll have a newfound relationship with every bump, crack and pothole on your route. Best to get familiar with it when you can take your time.

htm9779 wrote:...I would like to have some good talking points from people who have been here before.

Deflect their concern from you to the bike by saying something like, "I'm being incredibly careful while I wait for the ABS version to come out next year, then I'll trade up." Some of them will be baffled by the tech-speak. What the heck is ABS, anyway? Others will applaud your maturity and judgement for planning ahead to trade up to the ABS version. And you did say you'd be incredibly careful, right? Yeah, and if that doesn't work, spill some cranberry juice on the tablecloth and pass the potatoes, please.

Merry Christmas!

Of course the inverse works too, if you can hold out riding the scooter that long. Simply mention that you are going to get one of those new Miatas/Fortwos/MINIs/Fiat 500s and watch the sparks fly! Then tell them with a straight face that all of them are much, much safer than riding your scooter and watch them shut the hell up. Then just change your mind - "oh well, y'all are right, I'm sticking with the scooter."

Yeah, it's evil

It's not safe. I have been to two funerals of fellow riders. Not fun. A co-worker just became a quadriplegic this Thanksgiving just out riding with his son. There are risks... but there are risks walking down the sidewalk, riding your bike, driving your car, or just sitting on your couch. Life is 100% fatal, it's just a matter of time. When your time's up... it's up. Just don't push it.

Rippinyarn wrote:Of course the inverse works too, if you can hold out riding the scooter that long. Simply mention that you are going to get one of those new Miatas/Fortwos/MINIs/Fiat 500s and watch the sparks fly! Then tell them with a straight face that all of them are much, much safer than riding your scooter and watch them shut the hell up. Then just change your mind - "oh well, y'all are right, I'm sticking with the scooter."

Yeah, it's evil

And just what is wrong with a Miata or a Fiat 500? People have a problem with small cars that can do breakneck speed and outmaneuver a Corvette or Mustang driven by some corn-fed hillbilly? I'll take one of those sub 2 liter rockets anyday over a "muscle car"

neotrotsky wrote:

Rippinyarn wrote:Of course the inverse works too, if you can hold out riding the scooter that long. Simply mention that you are going to get one of those new Miatas/Fortwos/MINIs/Fiat 500s and watch the sparks fly! Then tell them with a straight face that all of them are much, much safer than riding your scooter and watch them shut the hell up. Then just change your mind - "oh well, y'all are right, I'm sticking with the scooter."

Yeah, it's evil

And just what is wrong with a Miata or a Fiat 500? People have a problem with small cars that can do breakneck speed and outmaneuver a Corvette or Mustang driven by some corn-fed hillbilly? I'll take one of those sub 2 liter rockets anyday over a "muscle car"

I started riding scoots when I was 19. I have never owned/leased/rented/borrowed a car.

Being a former EMT, of course my mom had a cow when I told her I got a scooter. "I had a friend who died in a motorcycle crash!" Well, I'm not my mom's friend. I take a refresher safety course every few years. I wear good gear. I know my limits. Oh, and I can't really afford a car, don't want one, and nobody seems to want to buy me one, so... yeah.

The "scooters are dangerous" discussions have gotten very few and far between since I actually got a regular car license (at 27!). I have not caused anything but emotional damage as far as car driving is concerned, but I have put many people to rest on the "you should buy a car" discussions... I have proven to be very bad when given more than three wheels to deal with.

There's always the "You could get hurt or killed just by stepping out your front door" argument. It doesn't go very far, but it is a valid point.

htm9779 wrote:My wife and I have chosen to sell my car and be a one car household. Yep...we're keeping hers. On cold and/or wet days, we'll ride to work together. On nice days, she'll drive her car and I'll take my St. Tropez. We've told very few friends and no family members about our big change. I was just informed that my parents are freaking out about our decision and don't want their baby boy riding a dangerous scooter. Oh...by the way...I'm 32. In most families I would be considered a grown man but apparently in mine I'm still a little boy.

My question is: How have you addressed concerns and objections from family and friends about your decision to ride a scooter, whether it be for leisure or leisure and daily commuting? I've got to see my folks tomorrow for Christmas dinner and I would like to have some good talking points from people who have been here before.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

LOL. If you're on Modern Vespa, you may have come across my post on something similar. The post was titled "Ignorant Dad".

My mother passed away last year from brain cancer and so only my dad now remains. My husband and I (we're a gay male couple and consider ourselves married though we can't in our state...boo!) have one car and two bicycles. I recently got some training and a motorcycle endorsement and now am on my way to purchase a Piaggio BV 250. My dad totally freaked out about it and said he was against me getting a scooter. And, I'm older than you. I'm 35 and my husband is 40.

I don't have any talking points to offer. I've just decided not to let my father know I'm purchasing a scooter. When we talked on the phone I told him I was thinking about getting one and that's when he became worried and upset. Now, I have actually begun the purchasing process. I already bought the insurance and the bill of sale for the scooter will be started tomorrow.

Good luck! And safe riding to all!

Edwub wrote:They're right. Two wheeling can be more dangerous, and there's more risks.
But there are benefits as well, or else we wouldn't do it.

Don't downplay whether it's safe. Acknowledge it, but follow up with "I understand the risks, and I am taking as many measures as I can to be safe. However, there are a lot of benefits and we have, after much thought, decided that this is in our best interests. I appreciate your concerns, but please try to understand we have to do what's best for us"

I agree with you 100% regarding two-wheeling not being as safe as a car. It's absolutely true.

Adjust the speech as necessary for your family, and anticipate theirresponses - I've had friends who tried that and their parents offers to buy them a car so they could give up on the ridiculousness.

Yeah, my father tried to do the same thing too. My whole point of getting a scooter is an experiment which I hope will become a fixity. It's an experiment first because I'm experimenting if I can use the scooter for distance commuting like in a car. I primarily see cars as being economically and environmentally wasteful. However, I'm not against using cars because there are some situations when it is helpful and necessary. But, in a family with one car already, it isn't necessary to get a second car. However....say that I do find that I cannot use the scooter for distance commuting for reasons like say I end up realising I am not skilled enough of a rider. Then, I will have to get a car. I suspect that I can be a skilled enough rider, especially given that I've bicycle commuted for over 10 years. Yes, scooters are different (especially a 250cc scooter) but I believe I have the potential to become a skilled and safe rider on PTW. That's why I am open to saying this scooter thing for me is an experiment because if I do fail to make it permanent, then I will allow myself to admit to that.

neotrotsky wrote:

Rippinyarn wrote:Of course the inverse works too, if you can hold out riding the scooter that long. Simply mention that you are going to get one of those new Miatas/Fortwos/MINIs/Fiat 500s and watch the sparks fly! Then tell them with a straight face that all of them are much, much safer than riding your scooter and watch them shut the hell up. Then just change your mind - "oh well, y'all are right, I'm sticking with the scooter."

Yeah, it's evil

And just what is wrong with a Miata or a Fiat 500? People have a problem with small cars that can do breakneck speed and outmaneuver a Corvette or Mustang driven by some corn-fed hillbilly? I'll take one of those sub 2 liter rockets anyday over a "muscle car"

i always get this "i'm ready for an e-fight" vibe from you. go nog some eggs. and have a good holiday.

jijifer wrote:When I went scooter only some of my family had objections, too, I was 35.

So i'm not sure what you situation is. I've been living on my own, supporting myself since I was 18. I live across the country from my family. Nearest direct blood line connection is in Michigan (Mom) and my brother is in Florida. The loudest anti-scoot-only sentiment was coming from my Uncle in Alaska - who I haven't seen in 10 years!

I didn't really take their opinions too seriously since they weren't really protecting me or my life in any other way. THAT SAID I didn't need to cause a rift.

I got my brother onboard first. He instantly recognized that he had no stake in telling me how to live my life so he just asked how I planned on being careful.

Together we went to my mom and this time opened with how I planned on being careful:

msf
riding to my ability
Full gear, all the time
riding smart- finding alternatives during bad weather.

I reminded them I had been a bike commuter for 6 years and didn't even wear a helmet - where was the concern then?! That may have been the biggest ah-ha. Most didn't know I was a bike commuter and didn't own a car for all those years - that's how much they did NOT know about me.

And then I asked something of them:
please look out for scooters/motorcycles when you're driving. Give us space. Look both ways before pulling out of the drive way or into a street. Just do your part to keep me and other cyclists safe and I think we'll all survive

They all came around especially when they saw the joy scooting brought me.

OF COURSE, i got hit just 3 months in and there was "I told you so" going around and around BUT 3 years later everyone accepts that I'm a good rider, doing my part to keep the rubber on the road and they do theirs.

Your situation sounds like mine! I'm also 35 and had bicycle commuted for many years.

I pray that I won't be hit in the first 3 months. I would find the "I told you so" irritating but I also realise I need to prepare for those missives from my father, in particular.

bigbropgo wrote:

neotrotsky wrote:

Rippinyarn wrote:Of course the inverse works too, if you can hold out riding the scooter that long. Simply mention that you are going to get one of those new Miatas/Fortwos/MINIs/Fiat 500s and watch the sparks fly! Then tell them with a straight face that all of them are much, much safer than riding your scooter and watch them shut the hell up. Then just change your mind - "oh well, y'all are right, I'm sticking with the scooter."

Yeah, it's evil

And just what is wrong with a Miata or a Fiat 500? People have a problem with small cars that can do breakneck speed and outmaneuver a Corvette or Mustang driven by some corn-fed hillbilly? I'll take one of those sub 2 liter rockets anyday over a "muscle car"

i always get this "i'm ready for an e-fight" vibe from you. go nog some eggs. and have a good holiday.

Dude... chill. That was a JOKE! I would think that there would be a ton of fans of the small cars here. Sounds like someone's sense of humor needs to come with a gift receipt. No fight here man

Lovelandstella wrote: not on your exact topic, but my 2 cents: my wife and I just did the same thing (from 2 cars to one car and 2 scoots) and ...I am not sure where you live -but here in Colorado, after 7 months I can say that we made the "wrong decision."

Yeah, I think you're right. In Colorado, a scooter cannot be used year round for most people. Myself included.

I'm lucky to live in North Carolina where it's relatively mild in the winter and swampy in the summer. We're at the end of the year an in fact yesterday was quite warm. But there are days when it's colder.

teabow1 wrote: I primarily see cars as being economically and environmentally wasteful.

There have been threads regarding how people don't ride scooters to save money (because they don't), but because they are fun (sorry, my search abilities failed me with finding any of those threads), but I did find the thread about "How motorcycles are more wasteful than cars, according to Mythbusters. Check out this Mythbuster's episode.

Both of those things being said, I ride because I enjoy it.

michelle_7728 wrote:

teabow1 wrote: I primarily see cars as being economically and environmentally wasteful.

There have been threads regarding how people don't ride scooters to save money (because they don't), but because they are fun (sorry, my search abilities failed me with finding any of those threads), but I did find the thread about "How motorcycles are more wasteful than cars, according to Mythbusters. Check out this Mythbuster's episode.

Both of those things being said, I ride because I enjoy it.

While I found the Mythbusters test completely flawed and skewed, We've found that having a car is needed in Phoenix, since the mass transit sucks here. Yes, it's grown by light years in some parts of the city, but when it comes to hauling something big for the house or having to trek out to see family in various parts of the state that you can't get to by any other way than by car, it's a need.

Granted, we went with the "utility" in utility vehicle and got a Vitara. It's everything the scooter is not, and that works just fine for us. If weather and conditions are so bad that we can't get to where we are going in that thing, we wouldn't be getting there in anything else save a military spec humvee. And, with the towing package it's a great scooter support car! (Although, with a whopping 98 hp I don't think it can tow much more than itself and a scooter, but that's ok!)

neotrotsky wrote:

michelle_7728 wrote:

teabow1 wrote: I primarily see cars as being economically and environmentally wasteful.

There have been threads regarding how people don't ride scooters to save money (because they don't), but because they are fun (sorry, my search abilities failed me with finding any of those threads), but I did find the thread about "How motorcycles are more wasteful than cars, according to Mythbusters. Check out this Mythbuster's episode.

Both of those things being said, I ride because I enjoy it.

While I found the Mythbusters test completely flawed and skewed, We've found that having a car is needed in Phoenix, since the mass transit sucks here. Yes, it's grown by light years in some parts of the city, but when it comes to hauling something big for the house or having to trek out to see family in various parts of the state that you can't get to by any other way than by car, it's a need.

Granted, we went with the "utility" in utility vehicle and got a Vitara. It's everything the scooter is not, and that works just fine for us. If weather and conditions are so bad that we can't get to where we are going in that thing, we wouldn't be getting there in anything else save a military spec humvee. And, with the towing package it's a great scooter support car! (Although, with a whopping 98 hp I don't think it can tow much more than itself and a scooter, but that's ok!)

I wasn't enthralled with their "results" either. Plus, how they didn't factor in scenarios such as being to work in 20 minutes (because you were on a scooter and could use the carpool lane) vs sitting in traffic for 30-40 minutes or more in your car because you can't get in the carpool lane as a single occupant.

Plus, less gas wasted looking for parking spots!

And, to my knowledge none of those bikes had a Cat and only one was fuel injected. And they used either middleweight cruisers or sportbikes it's like testing the efficiency of German vs Korean cars by using a Hyundai Accent against a Porsche SUV

Unfortunately I couldn't view the video. It's been removed.

I know it is not the safest mode of transportation. That is why I primarily drive. And since I drop kiddo of at school- no way will I have him riding with me. I do not like riding at temps below 69 degrees. I've done it. And know I prefer 70's to low 90's range. Mom hates my scooter and the fact that I ride due to safety concerns. She knows I do my best to stay safe (avoid after dark riding, avoid inclement weather riding -etc.). She still wories. This past summer my scooter ended up being my back up vehicle when my car ended up unexpectedly in the shop and she was out of town. I managed to get to and from work without needing anyone's help. She most certainly saw the beneft of me riding. However to her the risks outway the benefits. She could barely wait for the riding season to be over. I am turning 50 this summer, by the way. Mom is mom. She still worries. It doesn't matter how old you are. They will always worry.

I have always felt that a childs duty is/was to hide as much as possible
'worry inducing information" from parents as possible. It's just easier that way... And by the way both of my parents lived a long life. R

I guess I'm lucky that my mom rode a scooter as her primary vehicle when she was a teenager in Britain in the 50s. She just had questions about whether I had to mix my own oil and if the scooter had a kickstart.

Yes, I hear many people say parents will always be parents.

On the other hand, I wonder and you can say lament that so many parents cannot have adult relationships with their offspring. They continue to hold an adult to child relationship. Maybe we don't have enough public discourse about how parents and children can have adult-to-adult relationsips as opposed to adult-to-child relationships.

It helped that at the time I was deciding upon a Buddy, my grown nephew was purchasing a Hayabusa. Suddenly, the Buddy didn't seem so outrageous.

BTW, the newphew has settled down and is now a Goldwing rider ... soem lifestyle change !

teabow1 wrote:Yes, I hear many people say parents will always be parents.

On the other hand, I wonder and you can say lament that so many parents cannot have adult relationships with their offspring. They continue to hold an adult to child relationship. Maybe we don't have enough public discourse about how parents and children can have adult-to-adult relationsips as opposed to adult-to-child relationships.

I grew up with a mother who often said, "I am the parent and you are the child". I also lament that too many parents can't have an adult-to-adult relationship with their children. It definitely seems like it will take less effort for the parents to raise kids who follow instructions without question, than parents focusing on raising children to be functional adults. It's hard to change that mindset.

If an adult child is still considered to be a small boy then you can try to sit your parents down to work through developing an adult-to-adult relationship. If parents can't work with that, then maybe Still Shifting's approach of hiding "worry inducing information" from parents is the best way to handle it, even if it is a sad way to have to do things.

htm9779 wrote:My wife and I have chosen to sell my car and be a one car household. Yep...we're keeping hers. On cold and/or wet days, we'll ride to work together. On nice days, she'll drive her car and I'll take my St. Tropez. We've told very few friends and no family members about our big change. I was just informed that my parents are freaking out about our decision and don't want their baby boy riding a dangerous scooter. Oh...by the way...I'm 32. In most families I would be considered a grown man but apparently in mine I'm still a little boy.

My question is: How have you addressed concerns and objections from family and friends about your decision to ride a scooter, whether it be for leisure or leisure and daily commuting? I've got to see my folks tomorrow for Christmas dinner and I would like to have some good talking points from people who have been here before.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

tell 'em to stop hatin' and get their own damn scooter(s)!

Ive known people who stayed away from motorcycles for safety reasons but then die in car accidents.

I knew someone who survived a really bad car wreck but died from cancer.

I had a uncle who raced motorcycles and was someone who flew a huge C13O aircraft just 20ft from the ground for spec op in the airforce but died during a routin test flight.

Moral to my rant? You can't chose how you die but you can chose how you live.