Modern Buddy

I'm looking at a copy of TwistNGo and particularly at a SYM ad when I spot the signature handlebars and headlight of a Joker.

SYM calls it an Allo and it's available in 50 and 125 in England.

IIRC, SYM was a Honda subcontractor in the past and already sells their rendition of the Cub so maybe there is a Joker copy out there that is well built. Which is scant comfort to us here in the States.

Oh well.

The joker handle bar and body style seem to be a love hate issue. I happen to be on the love side. If it had a honda lc 125, it would run forever.

SYM is trying to bring more models to the U.S....sooo?, maybe. The symba is pretty well put together. I'd like to get a ride on one of the 150 wolf's.

So does this mean that the Lance Cali Classic is really a SYM? Or at least, it is now?

I'm confused.

Southerner wrote:So does this mean that the Lance Cali Classic is really a SYM? Or at least, it is now?

I'm confused.

Yep, they are now. Same innards as a Fiddle II with a different shell, as I understand it.

I have test ridden a Fiddle II, it was OK and not broke in yet, any one ride one regular like? R

That Lance Cali built in Taiwan? If so looks like a very nice deal.

Southerner wrote:So does this mean that the Lance Cali Classic is really a SYM? Or at least, it is now?

I'm confused.

They always have been. A couple of years ago, Lance got serious and decided not to contract the Chinese manufacturers to make bikes for them. When they contracted for SYM to make the Cali Classic (in a mainland Chinese factory -- just like the Fiddle II), that bike became their scooter lineup, period.

After the Carter Bros. fire, our Fiddle II customers were still in luck, as we could call up Lance for almost any mechanical or electrical part. The first Calis that showed up on our floor had keys imprinted with the SYM logo; later ones has the SYM key shape, without the logo.
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That's an interesting bit of inside knowledge. Would make me feel better about buying one, for sure.

I don't know whatever happened about that fire. I heard over the local TV news that arson was suspected but it's been quiet ever since. Carter Bros also used to import some dune buggies with their own badge on it. My son has one. Those disappeared for a while but there's a go-cart dealer in the area that has them in stock again. I don't know what name they're carrying.

i've read its a good scooter for the price and otherwise if you love the styling. i actually saw a black one on the road recently. it was looking sharp and even from across the street i could tell it wasn't a "chinese" joker clone like the BMS Heritage, Lance Retro, TnG Lowboy, etc. saw one at my dealer up close and the hardware (chrome) was obviously superior over the chinese clones i have seen. i like them but have a 125 already. plus the chrome is a pro / con thing for me. but here is an ad for a chicago store that features the bike well (posting just for the sake of the info and pics)

http://www.iheartscooters.com/scooters/ ... ali125.php

and here is an explanation of the "ceramic coated" cylinder. i am not sure if older models got this engine

http://lancepowersports.com/models/cali125.html

i'ma sell southerner a scoot, here

There were two drawbacks for me that made the Cali Classic not as good a deal:

1.) Very short rear suspension. Seat height is like 25", which is very, very short. I weigh a shade over 200lbs., so this was a hard-riding bike for me; for someone with short legs and 120lbs, perfect!
2.) Almost no underseat storage. No helmet will fit... maybe a pair of gloves (big, bulky ski gloves might not fit, actually) or a tiny handbag for the ladies. Papers, wallet, cellphone, yes. But seriously, there's almost no there, there.

For my riding purposes, if budget were the concern that steered me towards the Cali, I'd consider the Kymco Agility 125, instead. I know -- it doesn't look as cool, but in so many ways, it is a more practical vehicle.

UPDATE: Something else that put me off -- Lance only offers a 1 year warranty on this model. All the SYM-badged SYMs have the full 2 year.
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+1 on the Agility rec. i hate being the Kymco fan(boy ) here but the Agility is a good scoot to ride and own. tall seating position, BIG under seat storage, lots of foot space, good leg room. you can jazz it up a bit using some red trim / tape and placing some stickers on it. i used to have too many now i have toned it down. still looks fresh, though

oh and take care of all the black plastic. its finished black and is prone to fading. but some good non shiny protectant will keep it black as ever. i just got done riding mine around town for a couple hours running around like a crazy man and it was hella fun. has plenty of pop up to 50mph and will reach 55 for passing and 60mph eventually. yeah eventually lol. but on an even small downhill grade it will reach up to 65 - 70mph pretty quickly and without much fuss. never tried it, though

i need to get a camera so i can post vids on youtube of it racing around town at night. its awesome. why here is MB member jprestonian himself and a vid HE posted years ago. its one that helped me seal the deal on my own Agility 125:)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gcQXNHBjfmY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

JHScoot wrote:+1 on the Agility rec. i hate being the Kymco fan(boy ) here but...

You're not alone in that, you know. If the Like 200i was a real 200cc i'd own one. Had a name picked out and everything.

JHScoot wrote:why here is MB member jprestonian himself and a vid HE posted years ago. its one that helped me seal the deal on my own Agility 125:)

Admit it: It was the Adrian Belew soundtrack (which I am amazed is still attached to it, frankly). :)

I once rode that bike from Nashville to Johnson City, TN... took about 11 hours.
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JHScoot wrote:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ptLcRR6GltI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just look at those lines! How can you not love that? Is there a scooter anywhere with wider bars?

The lack of storage would be a problem, though.

SYM seems to be the go-to manufacturer for rebadgers these days. TwistNGo also reveals they build the internals for the new repro Lambrettas.

Could do worse. Much worse.

That Agility video was cool! Hard to believe 125cc will carry a grown man so fast.

Southerner wrote:SYM seems to be the go-to manufacturer for rebadgers these days. TwistNGo also reveals they build the internals for the new repro Lambrettas.

Y'mean the ones that will likely never be sold because of the years of litigation ahead? So sad.

Southerner wrote:That Agility video was cool! Hard to believe 125cc will carry a grown man so fast.

They have a pretty healthy top-end, very comparable to a Buddy, but they feel like a bit bigger bike (probably because of the seat height and larger wheels).
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I am a fan of the Cali Classic.

Jordan (The Wife) wants one as her next scoot as she used to have the Lance Vintage 150 (Chinese predecessor to the Cali Classic 125) and loved it. It was a decently built scooter for Chinese.

We never had any problems out of the Lance Vintage either, other than some body rust since we lived on the beach, and rode the hell out of it.

p.s. I would love to pick of a SymWolf 150

Lance and SYM have a VERY strange history. Some of this is due to weirdness from when Carter Bros. had the US SYM distributorship. There was an odd incident in which Lance (Alliance) had gotten a hold of a bunch of Fiddles and were trying to rebadge and sell them. Carter and SYM freaked and initiated legal action and Lance/Alliance withdrew the scooters (which were never actually sold or distributed). It was rumored at one point that Lance/Alliance was trying to pick up other manufacturers' scooters in China and had gotten these through an escrow house or something like that.

It was all very fishy.

Not long after, word starts to circulate that the Lance Cali Classics, which at that time was their only offering, were the Joker clones SYM makes in China. IIRC, Carter Bros. had not yet imploded and SYM-USA (aka Carter) was trying to deny it. But, lo and behold, SYM-made Jokers.

This made it even weirder that SYM (Taiwan) chose Alliance as their distributor.

Lance did have some of the better made Chinese rebadges, but the problems with the company were legendary. They seem to have fixed some of these. At the very least, SYM had some better dealers signed up than Lance did on their own, so customers are getting better service. Parts are still a huge problem, though, as dealers and owners will attest to.

I'm still very wary of SYM as distributed by Alliance/Lance. The product is mostly good, but the company still has to prove itself in my eyes. I'm just not sure they've redeemed themselves after past incidents like the one above and earning a reputation for poor service and unsupported warranty claims.

It's a lot harder to fix a tarnished image after the fact.

jprestonian wrote:

JHScoot wrote:why here is MB member jprestonian himself and a vid HE posted years ago. its one that helped me seal the deal on my own Agility 125:)

Admit it: It was the Adrian Belew soundtrack (which I am amazed is still attached to it, frankly). I once rode that bike from Nashville to Johnson City, TN... took about 11 hours.
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that song is mighty tuneful, yes

ravenlore wrote:

JHScoot wrote:+1 on the Agility rec. i hate being the Kymco fan(boy ) here but...

You're not alone in that, you know. If the Like 200i was a real 200cc i'd own one. Had a name picked out and everything.

yeah they stick the same 163cc engine that is found in the People S200 in there. its known for feeling much like a robust 150 but nothing more. i know some were disappointed with the S200's top speed. and at $3400 you would expect more. maybe the new fuel injected models will help that in some regard?

But speaking of Kymco fan(boys@girls) lets here if for....Agility wheelies!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NecC3k1-SFc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ericalm wrote:Lance and SYM have a VERY strange history. Some of this is due to weirdness from when Carter Bros. had the US SYM distributorship. There was an odd incident in which Lance (Alliance) had gotten a hold of a bunch of Fiddles and were trying to rebadge and sell them. Carter and SYM freaked and initiated legal action and Carter withdrew the scooters (which were never actually sold or distributed). It was rumored at one point that Lance/Alliance was trying to pick up other manufacturers' scooters in China and had gotten these through an escrow house or something like that.

It was all very fishy.

Not long after, word starts to circulate that the Lance Cali Classics, which at that time was their only offering, were the Joker clones SYM makes in China. IIRC, Carter Bros. had not yet imploded and SYM-USA (aka Carter) was trying to deny it. But, lo and behold, SYM-made Jokers.

This made it even weirder that SYM (Taiwan) chose Alliance as their distributor.

Lance did have some of the better made Chinese rebadges, but the problems with the company were legendary. They seem to have fixed some of these. At the very least, SYM had some better dealers signed up than Lance did on their own, so customers are getting better service. Parts are still a huge problem, though, as dealers and owners will attest to.

I'm still very wary of SYM as distributed by Alliance/Lance. The product is mostly good, but the company still has to prove itself in my eyes. I'm just not sure they've redeemed themselves after past incidents like the one above and earning a reputation for poor service and unsupported warranty claims.

It's a lot harder to fix a tarnished image after the fact.

Eric I must say that was very clear, and helpful. I wonder if the SYM name and product will rise anew and fufill itspotential?The complications and rumors such as "arson at the Carter warehouse" are the stuff of B grade movies. Somebody should write one... R

still shifting wrote:

ericalm wrote:Lance and SYM have a VERY strange history. Some of this is due to weirdness from when Carter Bros. had the US SYM distributorship. There was an odd incident in which Lance (Alliance) had gotten a hold of a bunch of Fiddles and were trying to rebadge and sell them. Carter and SYM freaked and initiated legal action and Carter withdrew the scooters (which were never actually sold or distributed). It was rumored at one point that Lance/Alliance was trying to pick up other manufacturers' scooters in China and had gotten these through an escrow house or something like that.

It was all very fishy.

Not long after, word starts to circulate that the Lance Cali Classics, which at that time was their only offering, were the Joker clones SYM makes in China. IIRC, Carter Bros. had not yet imploded and SYM-USA (aka Carter) was trying to deny it. But, lo and behold, SYM-made Jokers.

This made it even weirder that SYM (Taiwan) chose Alliance as their distributor.

Lance did have some of the better made Chinese rebadges, but the problems with the company were legendary. They seem to have fixed some of these. At the very least, SYM had some better dealers signed up than Lance did on their own, so customers are getting better service. Parts are still a huge problem, though, as dealers and owners will attest to.

I'm still very wary of SYM as distributed by Alliance/Lance. The product is mostly good, but the company still has to prove itself in my eyes. I'm just not sure they've redeemed themselves after past incidents like the one above and earning a reputation for poor service and unsupported warranty claims.

It's a lot harder to fix a tarnished image after the fact.

Eric I must say that was very clear, and helpful. I wonder if the SYM name and product will rise anew and fufill itspotential?The complications and rumors such as "arson at the Carter warehouse" are the stuff of B grade movies. Somebody should write one... R

Oops, error in my post:
"Carter and SYM freaked and initiated legal action and Lance/Alliance withdrew the scooters (which were never actually sold or distributed)."
(Carter did not withdraw them as I originally said. What a pretzel.)

jprestonian wrote:

Southerner wrote:SYM seems to be the go-to manufacturer for rebadgers these days. TwistNGo also reveals they build the internals for the new repro Lambrettas.

Y'mean the ones that will likely never be sold because of the years of litigation?

They must`ve worked it out. they seem to be close to delivering in the UK.

Southerner wrote:They must`ve worked it out. they seem to be close to delivering in the UK.

It wouldn't be the first time. ;) Seriously though, even if they re-badge 'em as something else, I DO hope they come to market, especially in the U.S. I'd love to have a non-Vespa, metal-bodied twist-n-go here in the States.
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Speaking of SYM parts, I wonder if a dealer in the US could go to the Canadian distributor, like many did in the post fire, pre Alliance days?

I got belt, rollers, brakepads in that time from Canada (through my dealer) pretty quickly, and though I didn't check pricing, what I paid was not exceptionally high.

And if you want to go the more modern look the new HD200 (yellow and BlackJack black!) are now available. The yellow is BRIGHT and the flat/satin black is awesome!

jprestonian wrote:

Southerner wrote:They must`ve worked it out. they seem to be close to delivering in the UK.

It wouldn't be the first time. Seriously though, even if they re-badge 'em as something else, I DO hope they come to market, especially in the U.S. I'd love to have a non-Vespa, metal-bodied twist-n-go here in the States.
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I'd like to see them as well. I don't think I've ever seen a Lambretta out here in the hinterlands but the body style is so evocative of the cars I used to see as a child growing up in the 60's. They just have an extra appeal, even more than a Vespa.

I also like the idea of modern innards.

Joker clones are so popular (for a scooter) makes me wonder why Honda just doesn't make some Jokers and ship 'em

yeah i know, dream on. seems "the big boys" (Honda, Yamaha, etc) have no interest in selling scooters here

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r_M9E8-tfsg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


seems the "new" Joker clones go after a Mojito look

If they were Hondas they'd cost 2-3 times as much. Many would keep buying the Chinese clones. Might even be worse—"Well, it's JUST LIKE A HONDA." Most who buy them now have no idea what a Joker is.

Southerner wrote:I'd like to see them as well. I don't think I've ever seen a Lambretta out here in the hinterlands but the body style is so evocative of the cars I used to see as a child growing up in the 60's. They just have an extra appeal, even more than a Vespa.

I also like the idea of modern innards.

Me, too. If I weren't in Nashville, I suspect I would not have seen a Lambretta, either... 'cept maybe in a museum (come to think of it, I don't think Lane Motor Museum has a Lammy!). As it is, I know of and have seen three Lambrettas that are locally-owned, and know of a fourth I have yet to see ('cause it's been in Chattanooga under Stan's tender ministrations at Scenic City Scooters for much of the time the owner has had it).
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There are Lambrettas all over! You'd be surprised.

Ever seen American Pickers? They've found at least a couple Lambrettas out in the boonies. Barn finds come from barns. There are still some out there.

Wouldn't be surprised to find them near the cities but where I live, a generation ago, paved roads only existed in the towns and the federal and state highways. Not exactly scooter territory.

Cushmans yes (although not during my time). European exotica no.

ericalm wrote:There are Lambrettas all over! You'd be surprised.

Ever seen American Pickers? They've found at least a couple Lambrettas out in the boonies. Barn finds come from barns. There are still some out there. :)

Seen it? I've been in dood's store, here. He's got no Lambrettas on Clinton Street! He does have a couple of Vespas on display, though.
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jprestonian wrote:

ericalm wrote:There are Lambrettas all over! You'd be surprised.

Ever seen American Pickers? They've found at least a couple Lambrettas out in the boonies. Barn finds come from barns. There are still some out there.

Seen it? I've been in dood's store, here. He's got no Lambrettas on Clinton Street! He does have a couple of Vespas on display, though.
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On TV , at least, I've seen them pull some rusted frames out of heaps.

ericalm wrote:On TV , at least, I've seen them pull some rusted frames out of heaps. :)

I wouldn't doubt that. There's gotta be plenty of those, out there.

I had never even seen the show until one of the scootnashville people told me that the guy was interested in doing some stuff with us. Then, I went to hulu, and watched one episode.
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ericalm wrote:

jprestonian wrote:

ericalm wrote:There are Lambrettas all over! You'd be surprised.

Ever seen American Pickers? They've found at least a couple Lambrettas out in the boonies. Barn finds come from barns. There are still some out there.

Seen it? I've been in dood's store, here. He's got no Lambrettas on Clinton Street! He does have a couple of Vespas on display, though.
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On TV , at least, I've seen them pull some rusted frames out of heaps.

I think they have more in the original shop in Illinois... but they also sell them while they are on the road too. I remember one episode they found a pretty decent lamby in someone's grandfather's old garage or something, and on the way to their next stop they spotted a scooter shop, so they brought it in to get it appraised and the owner bought it off of them right then and there. If they don't have them in their store, it's because those sweet old barn finds are so sought after by collectors and restorers that know they can make a pretty penny off of one.

Edit: They also did this with a Cushman, which looked like a refrigerator on wheels... but it was in great shape and still ran.

ha! someone local had a cushman that they rebuilt, but the body was original. top speed: 31mph! It looked neat though.

JHScoot wrote:Joker clones are so popular (for a scooter) makes me wonder why Honda just doesn't make some Jokers and ship 'em

yeah i know, dream on. seems "the big boys" (Honda, Yamaha, etc) have no interest in selling scooters here

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r_M9E8-tfsg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


seems the "new" Joker clones go after a Mojito look

Yup... it's a direct copy of the Aprilia Mojito Custom

Syd wrote:Speaking of SYM parts, I wonder if a dealer in the US could go to the Canadian distributor, like many did in the post fire, pre Alliance days?

I got belt, rollers, brakepads in that time from Canada (through my dealer) pretty quickly, and though I didn't check pricing, what I paid was not exceptionally high.

And if you want to go the more modern look the new HD200 (yellow and BlackJack black!) are now available. The yellow is BRIGHT and the flat/satin black is awesome!

A dealer can still go through SYM Canada if necessary. I've spoken to one dealer that still gets parts for 09 & prior model years from them (i.e. rear racks and such for the RV 250 or Citycom). Shipping is a bear though, from what I was told.

The new HD200 is a very pretty machine. The powder coated black forks and wheels are a nice touch. The flat black one almost made me take out my checkbook - but I preferred yellow, as at least there is some potential for higher visibility compared to the black..

SoCalScooter wrote:A dealer can still go through SYM Canada if necessary. I've spoken to one dealer that still gets parts for 09 & prior model years from them (i.e. rear racks and such for the RV 250 or Citycom). Shipping is a bear though, from what I was told.

That was the problem we were having at East Side Scooters before we shut down in October. The folx in Canada were very, very nice, but it was sometimes a challenge to reach someone who spoke English. The big issue was in how long U.S. Customs (or whatever the agency in now called) would hold packages for inspection... and this is with our largest trading partner? WTF, Batman?
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