MSF Riding Section

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:57 pm

Im finally taking the MSF BRC this weekend. How hard will it be to pass the riding section? I have 5500 miles on my belt, and feel that I've got a very strong skill set, but I'm somewhat intimidated for some reason.

I'll have my own scoot with me, so it should be kinda fun, but I'm still weirdly worried.

Looking forward to driving at night, however!

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:08 am

Plisar wrote:Im finally taking the MSF BRC this weekend. How hard will it be to pass the riding section? I have 5500 miles on my belt, and feel that I've got a very strong skill set, but I'm somewhat intimidated for some reason.

I'll have my own scoot with me, so it should be kinda fun, but I'm still weirdly worried.

Looking forward to driving at night, however!

If I can pass it on the first try, anyone can pass it.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:09 am

you'll never pass just stay home

and stop lying, raven

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:17 am

I had only 200 miles of scooting when I took the course. It was not easy per se, but you should have great instructors who will work you through it. remember, it's a basic rider course, not jumping the Grand Canyon. Just enjoy yourself!

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:18 am

JHScoot wrote:you'll never pass just stay home

and stop lying, raven

My worst fear coming true! Oh noes! I need to be up to LA and ride with all of you.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:21 am

JHScoot wrote:you'll never pass just stay home

and stop lying, raven

LOL!!!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:29 am

No one fails unless they quit. You will be just fine. I took it on a MC having never ridden before in my life and was fine. You will love having the coaches there. The ones I had were so incredibly knowledgable and helpful. Don't forget, everyone there is a beginner. I think you'll find that you are one of the more experienced riders there given that you already have some miles under your belt. You should be excited! You are about to gain some great riding insight and learn the correct way to do things! Win, win. Have a good time!

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:30 am

skully93 wrote:...remember, it's a basic rider course, not jumping the Grand Canyon...

Good thing I didn't have liquid in my mouth because it'd be coming out my nose. I was picturing Evel Knievel teaching the BRC!

People do fail, but they're people who shouldn't be on two wheels (not just folks who've let their nerves beat them, but serious, 'oh you should never ride' people). You've got experience, just don't get cocky. Listen to the coaches, especially when they point out something you could do better. It's a great lesson in breaking bad habits. Bring a snack, dress for the weather (sunblock, lip balm), and have fun!

Yorkiemom · Post by **Yorkiemom** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:43 pm

Most people take the course on motorcycles and many who have never ridden before. Most people pass because remember, their ultimate goal is FOR you to pass...to increase rider awareness, safety and the love of motorcycling. It is as much their desire that you pass as it is your own. Don't stress yourself out...you will all be there riding to meet exactly the same objective...for you to become an aware, safe lifelong rider. Enjoy it...it's also a great bonding experience between you and the others in your group.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:27 pm

set aside all perceived notions or expectations; go in with the attitude to learn -- you must unlearn (shut off all prior experience) to learn as they want to teach you (a clean slate ); the exercises build on one another as the course progresses and you have a review before the test, both written (classroom) and hands-on (riding portion);

I had 2 weeks of intermittnet riding experience before I took the course last year in Pennsylvania and ended up learning alot; I rode a motorcycle the first day & rode a scooter (I only owned a scooter at that time) and took the riding test the second day (the site I learned at was behind a scooter dealer so they provide scooters while other dealers provide motorcycles);

I even had to put the swerve & brake manuver (I learned at the course) into effect the first night I rode to work after getting licensed (permit becomes interim license until official license is acquired when stamped & signed by instructor/proctor); I was trying to slow down for a yellow light & the a**hole behind me wanted to speed up and blow through the light; I pulsed my brakes, but the gap between us grew smaller so I coasted through the light, swerved to the curb, and stopped while the a**hole swung around me and blasted the horn...what a jackwagon!!! luckily for him/her I couldn't see the license plate or I would have alerted the local PD and filed a report!!!

my point is go into the MSF course with an attitude to learn and soak up all the knowledge and apply it in the riding aspect and you will do fantastic!!!

scubadoobie · Post by **scubadoobie** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:42 pm

Plisar wrote:Im finally taking the MSF BRC this weekend. How hard will it be to pass the riding section? I have 5500 miles on my belt......"

You'll do fine! I'm a fifty-something-later-in-life new scootser, with ZERO miles on a scoot or MC and passed it. The riding and test-taking part of course Day 2 was 4 hours of absolute misery in pouring rain.

I'll add another vote to ravenlore's post....If I can pass it on the first try, anyone can. Good luck!

keith1295 · Post by **keith1295** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:03 pm

I am actually taking the course this weekend to, should be fun!!!!

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:18 pm

Nice!

the MSF course will make you guys better drivers in general. it's amazing to rehash things you don't think about anymore while driving.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:40 pm

I'd recommend taking the course using the motorcycles the vendor supplies and expand your skills a bit. With 5500 miles under your belt, you are probably reasonably comfortable with turning (tight turns, even, and looking through the turn), and quick stops. In my course we never got out of 2nd gear, so it's not like you are learning a new trade, just a new skill.

Plus, if you have a problem the trainers feel like they have failed too and will help you with the problem you're having (and you dump their bike not yours - bonus!). It seems like the test that most people stress out over most is the figure-eight in a box. The box in my course was pretty big, so if you can make a U-Turn inside a couple straight in parking spots, you're good.

Finally, in AZ if you pass the riding portion of the test on a bike that is less than 150cc, your M endorsement is limited. I've never seen one, but I would guess it has an asterisk on the M, like the hitter's records from the 'steroid era' in baseball will have some day.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:12 pm

Ok, I am going to admit my ignorance, what is "MSF BRC"? I live in KS and I took their motorcycle liscense test after 2 weeks on my scoot, which was only 5 manuvering skills. I take it other states have more stringent examinations. Hmm, so there is one good thing about living in KS

Tee hee.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:26 pm

2wheelNsanity wrote:Ok, I am going to admit my ignorance, what is "MSF BRC"? I live in KS and I took their motorcycle liscense test after 2 weeks on my scoot, which was only 5 manuvering skills. I take it other states have more stringent examinations. Hmm, so there is one good thing about living in KS Tee hee.

Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Basic Rider Course.

In many states, sucessful completion can earn one a waiver on the skills potion of the endorsement test, and in some even the written test gets waived for successful completion of the BRC.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:56 pm

Thanx

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:32 pm

ravenlore wrote:skills potion

I need a skills potion. For typing and so many other things.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:20 pm

2wheelNsanity wrote:Ok, I am going to admit my ignorance, what is "MSF BRC"? I live in KS and I took their motorcycle liscense test after 2 weeks on my scoot, which was only 5 manuvering skills. I take it other states have more stringent examinations. Hmm, so there is one good thing about living in KS Tee hee.

Check here:

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:57 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:No one fails unless they quit.

Ask an MSF instructor if this is the case. You will likely get some great FAIL stories, as I did.

BUT, if you've been able to put miles on a scooter without crashing or killing yourself, chances are you can pass!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:59 pm

ericalm wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:No one fails unless they quit.
Ask an MSF instructor if this is the case. You will likely get some great FAIL stories, as I did.

BUT, if you've been able to put miles on a scooter without crashing or killing yourself, chances are you can pass!

If you don't pass the first time, you get to come back and do it again, gratis, if you choose to. So... passers never quit and quitters never pass

CROSSBOLT · Post by **CROSSBOLT** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:33 pm

I took the MSF BSR in Florida. I rode motorcycles for 20 years three decades prior. So here I was, grumpy old man with experience in the subject and what did I do? Listened to the much younger instructors and learned a bunch! Both Millie & I took the course and passed and had fun! Now if a coupla old coots (coot and cootess?) can do it so can you! Go for it!

Karl

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:34 pm

They do fail people, When I took the MSF course, one of the students fell over at least three times. I think the instructor suggested she try some alternative form of transportation/activity.

When I took the final riding test on my Buddy, I felt like I was cheating because you can turn that thing so tight.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:10 pm

We had a woman that kept letting the clutch out, and wailing on the throttle, causing her to ride the motorcycle super man style. She'd pull the clutch back in, slow down too much, then fall over to the side. ...she failed.
It was hilarious to watch, and thankfully she had proper-ish gear (non-motorcycle-intended leather jacket, ahem), because I bet she went home with a couple bruises that day, in addition to her crushed dreams.

The others were an older fellow that had spinal issues, and could not turn his head at all, and his wife. I will admit, I have some spinal problems, but I CAN turn my head about 90 degrees to either side. His wife failed right as they started the actual riding bits, they didn't even let her get to the test, she just kept dropping the bike while walking it WITHOUT POWER, then more so when they had her let out the clutch a little bit (she was a short, but rather wide lady, and the bike wobbled a lot when she was walking it without power, so they at least gave her a chance to redeem herself). Anyway, she got REALLY pissed, and got in one of the instructors' face about how he was helping everyone else but her, wah wah wah... So they tried EXTRA hard with her husband to make her happy, and he failed anyway... because he couldn't see anything to either side. He went pretty much straight through most of the course, and slowed down wayyyy to much, to where he was pretty much walking the bike, around all of the turns that he managed to notice.
But he had already bought a Can-Am, which as we all know has two front wheels set far enough apart that make leaning generally unnecessary, so keeping it upright isn't his problem. He went on to take the NY MC road test on the Can-Am and passed. Go figure.
I think because they can't do the figure 8 in the box it is some kind of a restricted license though. Either way, I don't want to be anywhere near this guy and his crazy wife on the road!

Anyway, the BRC is easy peasy for any person with just a wee bit of common sense. You'll do just fine!

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:15 pm

I took the course 8 years ago. I'd had some scooter experience in years past, but no motorcycle experience. I was assigned a Honda 250 Nighthawk with a sticky throttle, and still managed to pass. Despite my previous riding experience, I still learned a hell of a lot, and I'm grateful for it. The instructors are just great, eager to help you pass and they make it an experience that's informative, rewarding and even fun! Here in AZ, your passing certificate results in your getting your motorcycle endorsement without any further testing at the DMV.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:12 am

Ask an MSF instructor?? Ohh Ohh here!

I instructed for 7 years. LOVED it...wish I still had the time, but I used to tell all my "worried" students. If you finish the course, you can eaily pass the test at the end. Its all stuff we JUST did in class. Just don't make yourself nervous over it and you will be fine.

Most folks that failed it, did just that. A nervous mistake. You can already do it if you are taking the test. Just relax and pass it

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:50 am

I was one of the few who failed. It was quick stop on a curve. I did OK in the box. So this was discouraging. Riding in a 100 degree heat with on and off drizzle I am sure had a lot to do with it also. I was not fedling particularly well.
I had a retake option but had no bike to practice on. Than I realized I needed automatic transmission because of my left hip arthritis and ended up buying a scooter. I took a regular MVA test and been riding ever since. If you really want to ride -you will.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:49 am

viney266 wrote:Most folks that failed it, did just that. A nervous mistake. You can already do it if you are taking the test. Just relax and pass it

We want to hear about people riding into walls and stuff like that!

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:11 am

ericalm wrote:
viney266 wrote:Most folks that failed it, did just that. A nervous mistake. You can already do it if you are taking the test. Just relax and pass it
We want to hear about people riding into walls and stuff like that!

Ooohhh, I have a few good ones

1.) My co-instructor riding on the front fender of a students bike. Facing rearward. He shifted left, she shifted left, he jumped right she steered right...target fixxed right on him. So finally he sat on the front fender as she tried to run the target she was fixated on over. LOL...He is slapping to hit the kill switch (honda 250 rebel) and she is trying to stop him ( she was panicked)...It was PRICELESS!

2.) Think a nitehawk 250 doesn't make a great offroad hillclimb bike??? guess again

3.) But in all my years teaching, and I taught almost every weekend, just a few scrapes, bruised egos and laughs. ONE, yup just one broken bone, but thats another story.

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:10 pm

In my course it was a clear cash grab. I probobly should have failed, had a lot of trouble learning to shift(which I did during the course), was all over the place on the driven portion. There was at least one rider who was worse than me. Everyone passed. From what I've heard most courses are run much better but from my experience if you pay you pass. If you do fail I believe you get a free retake. What I did learn- I hate shifting.

CROSSBOLT · Post by **CROSSBOLT** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:12 pm

Brag! Brag! I did the final 1 second slow!! Remember, I'm one of the really OLD guys!!

Viney, how does one get to be an instuctor for MSF? The best way to really learn something is to try teach it to someone else. That worked for me with flying and celestial navigation.

Karl

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:35 pm

viney266 wrote:...3.) But in all my years teaching, and I taught almost every weekend, just a few scrapes, bruised egos and laughs. ONE, yup just one broken bone, but thats another story.

Thanks for this! I'm starting the Rider Coach training next month and I'm freaking out about the range. What if I can't remember how to set it up properly? What if a student falls?

I know everyone says to just RTFC, but the guy who coordinates the MSF here in Rhode Island was hurt so badly last year trying to hold up a bike from someone who started to fall, he missed riding the entire summer.

I'm really excited, too, because I can't believe I will get paid to ride around on a motorcycle and help other people learn how to be safe riders. I can think of worse things.

Any advice you can offer to someone starting out as a coach is really appreciated.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Do they borrow a parking lot in RI? In the PHX area, TEAM AZ has their own site with the course painted out, so all that's required is to set out cones for each new exercise.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:52 pm

siobhan wrote:Thanks for this! I'm starting the Rider Coach training next month....

Congrats! From what I know of ya, you'd be an amazing instructor.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:51 pm

siobhan wrote:
viney266 wrote:...3.) But in all my years teaching, and I taught almost every weekend, just a few scrapes, bruised egos and laughs. ONE, yup just one broken bone, but thats another story.
Thanks for this! I'm starting the Rider Coach training next month and I'm freaking out about the range. What if I can't remember how to set it up properly? What if a student falls?

I know everyone says to just RTFC, but the guy who coordinates the MSF here in Rhode Island was hurt so badly last year trying to hold up a bike from someone who started to fall, he missed riding the entire summer.

I'm really excited, too, because I can't believe I will get paid to ride around on a motorcycle and help other people learn how to be safe riders. I can think of worse things.

Any advice you can offer to someone starting out as a coach is really appreciated.

I'll send you a PM with a few things, but one EASY one, watch the students faces/eyes/expressions. I tells you everything. And when they seem like they are getting sloppy or tired. time for a break even 5 minutes is good. Keep it light and fun If you can forget its a job so will the students and you guys can have a great time together.
And when the students make mistakes or have troubles. TALK to them about it, they know they are struggling with that particular issue. Help "em through it

DanielPerrin · Post by **DanielPerrin** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:54 pm

If you have any real level of riding under your belt then I wouldn't expect you to have any trouble passing, as long as you are willing to learn "the right/safe way" that is taught.

The big plus to taking the course is that you learn great skills that will help on every ride. 20+ years later, I still remember the training about how to brake approaching a turn, you go where you are looking, etc. Little tips that I would never have figured out on my own. I even use some techniques in my cage. There will be some unlearning for you to do, but you will end up a much better rider, and probably saying, "I wish I had learned that before I started riding".

As for people riding into walls, etc., my wife didn't finish two classes. When she came back from the FIRST day of the first course, I didn't follow the MSF process (walk without power, etc). I put her on her motorcycle, turned it on, told her the clutch grabs so be careful. She rode across the street and into the curb, and got the worst spiral fracture of her thumb that the orthopedic surgeon had ever seen. After that healed in eight weeks, she gave it a SECOND try. On day two, there was drizzle, she looked at a row of bushes, thought, "Don't look at the bushes or I will ride into the bushes." She kept looking at the bushes, rode through the row, toppled over, and decided that she was happier on the back with me at the controls. I still feel guilty for setting her up for failure the first time, and wonder what would have happened if she had passed the first course.

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:31 am

So I completed the first day without a problem. I used their Lance GS-R and it was a piece of garbage that was hard to maneuver. I'm contemplating using my buddy tomorrow. Thoughts?

ilektron · Post by **ilektron** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:46 am

I have to chime in that one of my instructors laid his bike over on the 'drive a large oval' section. To his credit, it was a dirt bike with knobby dirt tires on pavement; but still, he was an instructor and should have known better than push it.

scootavaran · Post by **scootavaran** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:00 am

Plisar wrote:So I completed the first day without a problem. I used their Lance GS-R and it was a piece of garbage that was hard to maneuver. I'm contemplating using my buddy tomorrow. Thoughts?

If your allowed to then go for it. whats better then completing the course with the help from your very own scooter?

plus you already have experience riding it.

keith1295 · Post by **keith1295** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:01 am

Day 1 down, Woo Hoooo, lots of good info, riding my Stella should be lots of fun after riding the motorcycle.....

DanielPerrin · Post by **DanielPerrin** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:11 am

Plisar wrote:So I completed the first day without a problem. I used their Lance GS-R and it was a piece of garbage that was hard to maneuver. I'm contemplating using my buddy tomorrow. Thoughts?

My vote would be to stick with their scooter, even if it's garbage. Since you are probably learning some new techniques, there is some practicing and familiarization to be done before you are proficient. Any tipping over would damage their mirrors, body panels, etc. As nice as it would be to ride what you are comfortable with, I would tough it out to prevent any damage to your beloved scooter.

keith1295 · Post by **keith1295** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:34 am

Yessssss, certificate in hand, now I'm legal!!!! Let the Stella Roll!!!!

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:12 am

Picking mine up tomorrow and then off to the DMV. Looking forward to no longer worrying about sunset! Thanks for the advice pals. Class was much better today on Sealy.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:20 am

Congrats, guys!

smarkum · Post by **smarkum** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:52 am

this thread reminds me that I wanted to get signed up this Spring for the "Advanced" class. I passed the first class while riding my Stella the entire time! I was a bit of a popular girl that weekend. The scooter gang I was in at the time drove by and have me a shout out while I was manuvering the course! It was a blast. We did have one guy fail. I later learned it was his 3rd time through . . . I learned a lot even though I had some riding under my belt. I LOVED that they let me ride my Stella through the class. That was top notch. I won a prize for the tightest "in the box". Not quite fair though . . . as they were on motorcycles! But, the class voted me in! a proud moment. . .

davidscooter · Post by **davidscooter** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:46 am

How did the class go?

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:27 pm

56 yr old F and new rider to anything 2 wheel besides a bicycle! Taking the MSF BRC class this next weekend and am a little nervous. I have a total of 30 miles experience riding on our lawn and on residential street! Watched a few MSF videos and got tips and learned a little. Looking forward to class! Instructor said I could bring my Buddy 125cc and am trailering it there for use during class. Don't want to mess with MC shifting! Hope I pass the first time, don't want to keep hauling the scooter to class or DMV.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:51 pm

jmiller wrote:56 yr old F and new rider to anything 2 wheel besides a bicycle! Taking the MSF BRC class this next weekend and am a little nervous. I have a total of 30 miles experience riding on our lawn and on residential street! Watched a few MSF videos and got tips and learned a little. Looking forward to class! Instructor said I could bring my Buddy 125cc and am trailering it there for use during class. Don't want to mess with MC shifting! Hope I pass the first time, don't want to keep hauling the scooter to class or DMV.

I was in my late 60s when I took the MSF course, and it was no big deal. I learned a lot, and got 100% on the written test. The riding part was a bit of a challenge, but I paid attention and followed directions and passed the course. Don't sweat it. The instructors are great and eager to help you learn and pass the course. I guarantee, you'll enjoy it!

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:23 am

Taking the test on a scooter should be pretty smooth imo. Scooters generally have a lower center of gravity compared to motorcycles, so it's much much much easier to turn and has a smaller turning radius as well. Just relax and don't tense up and you will be fine.

jmiller · Post by **jmiller** » Thu May 03, 2012 1:38 am

Attended the 2 day BRC class this weekend. Passed the written and the skills tests. Glad I brought my Buddy to the class, that way l could concentrate on learning to operate it more smoothly during the practice portions and not have to learn on an unfamiliar bike that required shifting~

Modern Buddy

MSF Riding Section

MSF Riding Section

Re: MSF Riding Section

You will be fine...

Re: MSF Riding Section

taking MSF BRC class this upcoming weekend

Re: taking MSF BRC class this upcoming weekend

Passed the BRC!