Modern Buddy

... and expected to climb way up there this summer, do you think there will be another scooter rush? The guys at the local bike shops all said they couldn't keep scooters and smaller bikes on the showroom floor the last time gas skyrocketed. At the time, I saw more old bikes that looked like they had been dragged out of the back of the garage than new scooters but I do see an ever-more-increasing number of scoots in traffic.

One dealer has told me he sells quite a few to local college students but they're all buying 125 and 150cc bikes, not the cheaper 50s. A 50 would seem fine for town and campus traffic so I don't know how to interpret that one.

there will definitely be an increase if gas prices increase,

i'm a college student with a 50.. a 50 is enough if you use it for short trips instead of for fun/excitement/primary vehicle

Oh yeah it goes hand in hand.

If you're in the market for a scooter, $800 more for a lot more umph sounds good to your average college student.

I hope there are more scooters coming out. At the same time I know a lot of casual motorcycle riders will be taking their bikes over their cars and they usually have a casual riders mentality (ie I'm better than you because my bike has almost a liter more displacement). That is until they get jammed in traffic and I slip through the fray.

scootavaran wrote:Oh yeah it goes hand in hand.

One thing I failed to consider is that the average student is more affluent than when I was there. I can remember people who used to live on peanut butter and ramen noodles at the end of the month. These days, the town is teeming with expensive cars and jacked-up 4-wheel drives that never seem to go offroad. These kids don't have to settle for the cheapest thing going.

I will have to continue to watch the local indie bike shop. Quite a few bikes out front are there to be sold on consignment when the owners graduate. I might get lucky.

older buddys with low miles has showed up on craigslist here, guess people have been sitting on them waiting for gas to go up so they can get decent money for them. Wonder how long its going to take till scooter thieft skyrockets

You would definitely do well to invest in something like a disk alarm.

Since my bike weighs 640 pounds and at work is parked right next to the police department, I feel relatively safe.

Southerner wrote:

scootavaran wrote:Oh yeah it goes hand in hand.

One thing I failed to consider is that the average student is more affluent than when I was there. I can remember people who used to live on peanut butter and ramen noodles at the end of the month. These days, the town is teeming with expensive cars and jacked-up 4-wheel drives that never seem to go offroad. These kids don't have to settle for the cheapest thing going.

I will have to continue to watch the local indie bike shop. Quite a few bikes out front are there to be sold on consignment when the owners graduate. I might get lucky.

Not sure where you live, but that observation does not represent the general student population. The average cost of a four-year college in 2009-2010 was $32,790 (1). While there are affluent students, the average student debt is $25,250 (2). And then they've got to try to find a job in a horrific job market.

All people named Jason are boys.
But all boys are not named Jason.

This is Auburn, Alabama. It's probably a local thing. We went from dorms, crappy student apartments and trailer parks to $200,000 a unit condo complexes, for example.

And yes, the job market sucks. How well I know!

Honestly, unless gas prices double overnight it won't cause that much of a change. Think about it, that is what happened last time when there was a serious boom. It is not like gas prices have been low lately, but yet scooter sales dropped off. We have a cushion now, because we have already been to $4 plus, so people won't really react until it goes well beyond that. They will complain, but they will still keep driving their huge SUVs, well over the speed limit, eating up as much gas as possible.

I would love another scooter boom, mostly for the shops, but I just don't know.

I think sales might go up, but probably not on the order of the 2008 scooter boom.

As bluebuddygirl says above, we've been conditioned to a new normal that is higher than what we were used to in 2008. However, prices are looking to go closer to $5 this time around, so that might be enough to induce another wave of panic.

Another reason it might be different this time around is that there's still a lot of excess scooter inventory circulating, both in the shops who overstocked after the 2008 boom and in scooters that were purchased at that time, but are sitting unused in garages all around the country. So there won't likely be the same scarcity that there was in 2008. However, all of that being said, my guess is that there will be some increase in demand, and that therefore used scooters will cost more.

So if you're still sitting on the fence about buying, I'd suggest you should do it soon or you'll wind up paying more. Or, in the worst case scenario, if we do see a repeat of 2008, you won't be able to find a scooter for sale anywhere at any price.

my shop says sales follow the spikes in gas price increase. In Cali - 50cc still requires M1 license, insurance and registration so the ONLY advantage to a 50cc is the OTD price. I think most people just save the additional so as not to limit where they can go with the scooter.

jonlink wrote:

Southerner wrote:

scootavaran wrote:Oh yeah it goes hand in hand.

One thing I failed to consider is that the average student is more affluent than when I was there. I can remember people who used to live on peanut butter and ramen noodles at the end of the month. These days, the town is teeming with expensive cars and jacked-up 4-wheel drives that never seem to go offroad. These kids don't have to settle for the cheapest thing going.

I will have to continue to watch the local indie bike shop. Quite a few bikes out front are there to be sold on consignment when the owners graduate. I might get lucky.

Not sure where you live, but that observation does not represent the general student population. The average cost of a four-year college in 2009-2010 was $32,790 (1). While there are affluent students, the average student debt is $25,250 (2). And then they've got to try to find a job in a horrific job market.

All people named Jason are boys.
But all boys are not named Jason.

lol, I was actually talking about a scooter sales boom due to a gas hike.

Did anyone here buy their own scooter because of the last gas hike?
I got mine new in 2010 simply because i always had loved the look of a scooter but it sure would have been nice to have back in 2008 or whenever that last gas crapper happend.

I bought my bike because I wanted to get back into motorcycling after a long hiatus due to marriage, child-rearing, and life in general.

I bought the model I did because I felt the best way to bring 2-wheeling back into my life was to be able to use it as a car substitute as much as possible, bringing some joy into otherwise boring, routine trips.

I've been using it as much as possible to cut down on my gas bill and to reduce wear & tear on my now 100K+ auto.

When next I am in a position to make another 2-wheeled purchase, I want to either:
(1) Buy another similar-sized motorcycle of a more recent vintage, preferably something more accessible for repair and maintenance or
(2) Keep the Honda until it totally wears out and buy something smaller, simpler and less rigorously practical to supplement it, with a scooter being a likely candidate.

OR, Short Answer: Yes, kinda.

The news was saying that gas will go above $5 by August here in CO, supposedly the second lowest prices in the US. I'm seeing a whole lot more scooters (and MC) on the road of late, even over the winter. The least little warm up and they are everywhere. Could be due to spring fever but it seems there are more than just for that.

Bought mine last Oct for the economy and for fun (my other car is a 4WD truck). It was an '06 with 1000 mi. Now it has 3000! Over winter! Definately keeping it for the fun (but the mileage doesn't hurt). )

I kinda think that the high mpg is part of what makes it fun!

Southerner wrote:

scootavaran wrote:Oh yeah it goes hand in hand.

One thing I failed to consider is that the average student is more affluent than when I was there. I can remember people who used to live on peanut butter and ramen noodles at the end of the month. These days, the town is teeming with expensive cars and jacked-up 4-wheel drives that never seem to go offroad. These kids don't have to settle for the cheapest thing going.

I will have to continue to watch the local indie bike shop. Quite a few bikes out front are there to be sold on consignment when the owners graduate. I might get lucky.

That's a good point - but it's also amazing how many of those kids have credit. When I was in college my first go-round (1994! Yikes!!) almost nobody was handing out credit cards and auto financing, you know?

I bought mine as a gas-sipping and mile-saving fun machine!

...and ya know, a reliable mode of transportation to get me to and from work, parents' houses, grocery stores, the gym, etc etc.

My beloved Jetta Wagon is at about 125k, and I want it to last as long as possible because I just love it so much... and Mk4s are rather hard to find! So, at least in the riding season, while I'm still living up here in snowy, cold NY, I will be scooting as much as possible when the weather allows. When we move to AZ, it will be scooter all the time, car when I absolutely must.
Plus, $4-$10 in gas for a week is way better than $30-35-ish!

I was originally looking for a smaller motorcycle/bigger scooter after my bf bought his HD Sportster, then I stumbled upon the local Vespa place, and found that they 'carry' Genuines. As far as the info on the company websites go, the 170i gets much better gas mileage than the Vespa 150s (for obvious reasons), and most motorcycles, while they get better gas mileage than my wagon, they generally don't come close to the Buddy either. Even the Iron 883 is still at 50-65mpg or something like that.. I'll take my 80-95, thanks!

The other thing is that my bf has a show-car VW GTI, a beater Jetta, and the motorcycle. While he rides the motorcycle as much as possible, he also needs to take his baby out on only nice days. (We do use the GTI every now and then in the winter when the roads are dry and clear, and there is no precipitation in the forecast for the next 3 days.) So he rides his motorcycle for short rides while I'm at work and he's bored/not busy with work, every once in a while he'll take it to a meeting that's farther away just to save gas, and have a nice relaxing trip home... but still, that darn GTI has to go out on some nice two-wheel worthy days, and it bugs me... especially because it's a dark colored car, with a black leather interior, great fun in the hot as hell, super humid summer.
I swear that I ride my scooter more than he rides his bike though. I ride when I go to the gym, to the grocery store, to run other errands, to go feed my step-sister's cat at my parents' house when they are on vacation, and such... while he uses the cars for such trips because his motorcycle doesn't currently have the storage capacity that I do.

He is looking at getting the new HD Softail Slim as tax season ends, so that I can ride the Sportster on longer trips that may require some highway riding/he would feel more comfortable with me on a larger bike, which will mean worse gas mileage for both of us, but still not as bad as the cars... and still way more fun.

...and I STILL want the white GTS300 Super sitting in front of Vespa Schenectady... even if it is a gas-hog of a scooter, and the paint is chipped/worn off a little bit on one side. It's hot.

I can't wait for it to be warmer. I love riding the scoot and do a lot more farting around than errands when I can.

It could be because I have never owned a car that wasn't a beat up piece of crap. I just always thought of them as a utility, a tool, not really anything more. The scoot has a bit of identity to it, which for some reason just ruins the lives of other drivers. That's another thread coming up!

if I had a garage and infinite money, I'd buy one of the new psychos, a bigger vespa for riding with the wife, and maybe even a BV 500, which is too much for a scoot but not really a 'motorcycle' either. I don't care, they're all neat! Heck, I even adore the tiny little 50cc neon green Yamaha Razz I saw the other day . The guy let me ride it a block, and let me tell you, since it doesn't weigh anything, it's fast for a 50cc.

Still don't see too many people trading in their SUV's for anything smaller. Not sure why. I just always hated them. I'm sure they're comfy for a large family, but to get around town seems very annoying. I live in a major metro area. space and parking? BAH!

Thankfully, I don't often run into a parking problem around here. I will normally park in a car space unless I see others routinely use the hatched areas. I don't want to get a ticket or get towed.

Funny, Ive been riding a scooter for years, but this month I traded in my big dodge ram truck for a Honda element. There were two reasons, GAS! And I couldn't park it in the garage (to big, or should that be in the double entenre thread ) we had to shuffle her car out every day I wanted to ride scooter. Now my Honda element and my Honda elite keep each other company in the garage, maybe they'll have little baby Honda el's together, if they do I'll sell them here

I'm sure it's doing better than the Ram but what sort of mileage do you get with the Element?

Southerner wrote:I'm sure it's doing better than the Ram but what sort of mileage do you get with the Element?

You know, I was getting like 10-12 mile to the gallon in my Dodge Ram, now my honda element (used 2003) is getting like 22-24 miles to the gallon. A lot better. then of course my 250cc scooter gets about 60-70 MPG, so im doing pretty good now My co-workers are jelous

I had so many thoughts on this, they're going to occupy a few thousand words over several posts over on ScooterFile.

Here's part 1, which is a historical perspective on the boom and bust of 2008/09 compared to what's happening this year: http://www.scooterfile.com/sf-feature/a ... -part-one/

The part most relevant to this discussion will probably be part 3, about whether it's actually possible to save money by buying a scooter in response to high gas prices and offering some suggestions for saving.

Spending over $3K + ongoing expenses such as insurance and registration to save what, for most people, is a fuel cost saving of maybe $10-$20 a week when gas is at its peak isn't actually saving money.

I don't think there will ever be a truly strong market for scooters until people think they can impress people with their scooter or the cool factor becomes too strong to ignore. SUVs, iPhones and McMansions have proven once again that we are all about keeping up with the Jone's and impressing people we don't even know. Luckily, I don't give a rat's behind what people I don't know think about me and make my purchases accordingly!

ericalm wrote:I had so many thoughts on this, they're going to occupy a few thousand words over several posts over on ScooterFile.

Here's part 1, which is a historical perspective on the boom and bust of 2008/09 compared to what's happening this year: http://www.scooterfile.com/sf-feature/a ... -part-one/

The part most relevant to this discussion will probably be part 3, about whether it's actually possible to save money by buying a scooter in response to high gas prices and offering some suggestions for saving.

Spending over $3K + ongoing expenses such as insurance and registration to save what, for most people, is a fuel cost saving of maybe $10-$20 a week when gas is at its peak isn't actually saving money.

This is why the crap Chinese scooters hold so much "appeal" to those who really don't know better: $900 and they have a new "moped" and they just willingly assume they're smarter than everyone else by not spending $3,000 to $10,000 on a Vespa, Honda or Genuine. WHEN they break down, all "mopeds" are crap and deathtraps, and the stereotype that small bikes are only toys stays the status quo in America. Some societies are beyond help in that regard.

But, in an anomaly, I save roughly $60 to $80 a week in fuel with the Rattler over driving our 4 cylinder Vitara. The savings are actually quite significant. But, I also put 50 to 120 miles a day 7 days a week on that bike.

Southerner wrote:One thing I failed to consider is that the average student is more affluent than when I was there. I can remember people who used to live on peanut butter and ramen noodles at the end of the month. These days, the town is teeming with expensive cars and jacked-up 4-wheel drives that never seem to go offroad. These kids don't have to settle for the cheapest thing going.

I don't know. I tend to disagree with that. If you listen to Dave Ramsey on the radio, there is a horrible trend to indebtedness of our nation, and it starts right after high school. People SHOULD live on peanut butter and top ramon until they get their bills paid and under control, rather than buying new/or expensive cars, using credit cards like they don't need to pay them back, jumping blindly into student loans they may never be able to afford to pay back without either saving up first or working their way through college, etc. Even among older people, sadly there is a high probability that the person sitting next to you at the light, in a car perhaps bought to impress, is up to their eyeballs in car/house credit card debt.

Sorry for going on a rant. After holding down 3 jobs for a couple times in my life to get out of debt, this is a sore spot for me. I pay cash for things now, but it was a long road...

Scooterboi wrote:The news was saying that gas will go above $5 by August here in CO

According to what I heard on the radio earlier today, it is already over $550 a gallon for regular unleaded in Washington DC....

michelle_7728 wrote:

Scooterboi wrote:The news was saying that gas will go above $5 by August here in CO

According to what I heard on the radio earlier today, it is already over $550 a gallon for regular unleaded in Washington DC....

According to this source there's one station in metro DC reporting a price over $5 ($5.39). A few blocks away it's a dollar less, and right across the river it's under $4. I don't know what this station's story is, but it's located on the Potomac, a stone's throw from the major tourist destinations, which probably makes it unusual. Sounds like someone on the radio is trying to make things seem worse than they are. How surprising. :/

ericalm wrote:I had so many thoughts on this, they're going to occupy a few thousand words over several posts over on ScooterFile.

The part most relevant to this discussion will probably be part 3, about whether it's actually possible to save money by buying a scooter in response to high gas prices and offering some suggestions for saving.

Spending over $3K + ongoing expenses such as insurance and registration to save what, for most people, is a fuel cost saving of maybe $10-$20 a week when gas is at its peak isn't actually saving money.

With respect, I'm not sure I agree w/your logic on this. I just quickly tallied up a little cost analysis of my car ('99 VW New Beetle, 5 sp @ ~ 30 mpg) vs. my scooter ('07 Honda Metropolitan @ ~95 mpg) factoring in insurance costs, maintenance and repair, purchase price, registration, inspection and incidentals (which really only come into play w/the scoot - riding gear) for the last 5 years. I bought my scooter new w/2 miles on it from the dealer in April of '08. I bought my car used w/65,000 miles on it in '06. I have full coverage insurance on both vehicles. My daily commute is currently ~35 miles one way, and yes I ride a 50cc scooter for the commute.
Purchase price: Beetle $6,000 Metro $1,984
Insurance (2008-2012) Beetle $3,000 Metro $600
Maint./Repair ('08-'12) Beetle $2,500 Metro $500
Registration ('08-'12) Beetle $180 Metro $60
Inspection ('08-'12) Beetle $250 Metro $150
Incidentals ('08-'12) Beetle $0 Metro $500
Gas (avg.$3/gal) ('08-'12) Beetle $1,080 Metro $270
(I based the gas total on 9000 miles per vehicle: Beetle @.12/gal, Metro @.03/gal. Using the average price/gal that I've tracked on fuelly.com)
TOTALS ('08-'12) Beetle $13,010 Metro $4,064

This is by no means scientific in any way, shape or form. Even if you only take into consideration the money that I've saved in gas ($810), that's enough to cover all of the work that I've had done on the brakes on the Beetle in the past year! If I didn't have the scoot and had put those 9000 miles on the Beetle instead, I feel pretty certain that w/gas and maintenance and repairs, I would have come close to the $4,064 that I have spent total on the Metro.

vwgrl1999 wrote:With respect, I'm not sure I agree w/your logic on this.

vwgrl, you bring up some excellent points. I think that Eric is examining this purely from the angle of someone who already has a car buying, in addition to that car, a scooter, at full price, and expecting to save money. In that case, I think it is a long time until you reach full ROI. There are many other scenarios in which a scooter can and does make sense, though. For instance, if you buy a scooter instead of a new car. In my case, I replaced riding the bus with a scooter. I paid $37 a month for my bus pass. I pay $27 a month for scooter parking, and about $4 a week for gas. So I'm not saving money, but I am saving time spent waiting and walking. That's worth something. If I had replaced driving a car with riding a scooter, the savings in parking costs alone probably would have penciled out within a relatively short period of time since it's $110 a month for a permit. So, long story short, whether a scooter will really save you any money really depends on what you're replacing.

vwgrl1999 wrote:

ericalm wrote:I had so many thoughts on this, they're going to occupy a few thousand words over several posts over on ScooterFile.

The part most relevant to this discussion will probably be part 3, about whether it's actually possible to save money by buying a scooter in response to high gas prices and offering some suggestions for saving.

Spending over $3K + ongoing expenses such as insurance and registration to save what, for most people, is a fuel cost saving of maybe $10-$20 a week when gas is at its peak isn't actually saving money.

With respect, I'm not sure I agree w/your logic on this. I just quickly tallied up a little cost analysis of my car ('99 VW New Beetle, 5 sp @ ~ 30 mpg) vs. my scooter ('07 Honda Metropolitan @ ~95 mpg) factoring in insurance costs, maintenance and repair, purchase price, registration, inspection and incidentals (which really only come into play w/the scoot - riding gear) for the last 5 years. I bought my scooter new w/2 miles on it from the dealer in April of '08. I bought my car used w/65,000 miles on it in '06. I have full coverage insurance on both vehicles. My daily commute is currently ~35 miles one way, and yes I ride a 50cc scooter for the commute.

TOTALS ('08-'12) Beetle $13,010 Metro $4,064

This is by no means scientific in any way, shape or form. Even if you only take into consideration the money that I've saved in gas ($810), that's enough to cover all of the work that I've had done on the brakes on the Beetle in the past year! If I didn't have the scoot and had put those 9000 miles on the Beetle instead, I feel pretty certain that w/gas and maintenance and repairs, I would have come close to the $4,064 that I have spent total on the Metro.

i think what Admin is saying is many people spend thousands on a scooter and ride it just part time. and end up riding it not at all. especially if purchased to save on gas. now if you just get a cheap little scoot and putt around town 10 miles a day i am sure its cheaper then maintaining a car. and to buy, of course. much cheaper overall cost of ownership

but you know, people buy $5,000 scooters they can barely ride to save a bit of money on gas. they keep the car, drive the car, sell the scoot at a loss

people, just don't do it!

2008, revisted:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/i4FrwQj_oA8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeah, at current gas prices, I had it figured up that riding a scooter as opposed to my Mustang GT would save me ~$5 a day in fuel costs. That sounds great, BUT with fuel costs being the only factor, it would take me about 3 years of riding 3 days a week just to pay for itself. Then there's insurance, maintenance items, etc that would need to be added in to that cost. Once the scoot had payed for itself, I'd save a bundle, but getting to that ROI takes longer than you'd think.

~SM

ericalm wrote:I had so many thoughts on this, they're going to occupy a few thousand words over several posts over on ScooterFile.

Here's part 1, which is a historical perspective on the boom and bust of 2008/09 compared to what's happening this year: http://www.scooterfile.com/sf-feature/a ... -part-one/

The part most relevant to this discussion will probably be part 3, about whether it's actually possible to save money by buying a scooter in response to high gas prices and offering some suggestions for saving.

Spending over $3K + ongoing expenses such as insurance and registration to save what, for most people, is a fuel cost saving of maybe $10-$20 a week when gas is at its peak isn't actually saving money.

I bought my Stella with this partially in mind. I was spending about 90 a month in gas in my Tercel (this is before this recent price hike) and my scooter payment is about 80/ month. With gas that's pretty close to breaking even (+ insurance + registration + another vehicle to maintain- yikes). Our answer was to sell the wife's toyota and give her my Tercel. We got almost $2000 on that so it works out pretty well. But I figure it gets to be a better and better deal the longer the Stella runs for me. And I'm happier spending that monthly money on the Scooter than on gas.

I get the point though, it's not so much a savings as it appears at first glance. Certainly a better deal if you ALREADY want to ride a scooter!

I'm in no way saying that you can't save money by buying a scooter. But many who buy for these reasons don't ultimately save or don't account for all factors when purchasing.

Swordsman wrote:Yeah, at current gas prices, I had it figured up that riding a scooter as opposed to my Mustang GT would save me ~$5 a day in fuel costs. That sounds great, BUT with fuel costs being the only factor, it would take me about 3 years of riding 3 days a week just to pay for itself. Then there's insurance, maintenance items, etc that would need to be added in to that cost. Once the scoot had payed for itself, I'd save a bundle, but getting to that ROI takes longer than you'd think.

~SM

For personal reasons i sold my Mustang and got my scooter. So Im saving a buttload for money.
Been 3 1/2years since and havent looked back, but I live in a small town that really never has any extremes in weather.

ericalm wrote:I'm in no way saying that you can't save money by buying a scooter. But many who buy for these reasons don't ultimately save or don't account for all factors when purchasing.

I agree with this assessment. Even myself, a hardcore scooter commuter, will not see immediate profit return:

$2200 - One scooter
$100- Insurance for one year
$200- Helmet
$100- Armored jacket found on sale
$75- Suitable lock for scooter
____________
$2675 for the initial layout for the bike not counting the complete engine rebuild I had to do (but that's another story)

Now, to break even that final number is what a commuter would have to hit. If the average commute is, say, 20 miles/day and the average work week is 5 days a week, at $4/gallon for worst case scenario the rider would have to put 53,500 miles just to "break even" on riding the scooter alone based off of an average MPG of 80 miles/gallon. That is the equivalent of 535 weeks of work!

And, that's not equating the cost of 2 stroke oil that is required for my bike since I assume the average commuter will buy the more simple and convenient scooter they see which will probably be a 4 stroke.

My cost return is alot quicker, since my other option is a 25mpg Suzuki Vitara SUV. And my daily commute is about 80 miles a day between my theater, school and home. But, I'm still not going to recover my cost in the bike until well into next season which is around late August at best.

Most people are creatures of panic in the US because they've been bred to be so by every element in the society. Expect the worst, and buy accordingly. But, once the worst has past, market as if it will never happen again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

neotrotsky wrote:Now, to break even that final number is what a commuter would have to hit. If the average commute is, say, 20 miles/day and the average work week is 5 days a week, at $4/gallon for worst case scenario the rider would have to put 53,500 miles just to "break even" on riding the scooter alone based off of an average MPG of 80 miles/gallon. That is the equivalent of 535 weeks of work!

Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:
13 regular services (oil changes, checks) at $60-$100 each
13 large services (oils, valve check, brakes, etc.) at $150-$300 each
5-7 belts at $35-$40 each +labor
6-8 sets of rollers at $30+ each +labor
8-10 tire changes at $35-$80 each +labor

And probably:
battery replacement
front and rear brakes
registration fees, depending on scooter and state

Well, I encourage panicky goofballs to buy one.

Do you know why? Because they'll pimp out a Blackjack, spend $6k on it, and then sell it the next fall because it needs an oil change. Score!

ericalm wrote:

neotrotsky wrote:Now, to break even that final number is what a commuter would have to hit. If the average commute is, say, 20 miles/day and the average work week is 5 days a week, at $4/gallon for worst case scenario the rider would have to put 53,500 miles just to "break even" on riding the scooter alone based off of an average MPG of 80 miles/gallon. That is the equivalent of 535 weeks of work!

Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:
13 regular services (oil changes, checks) at $60-$100 each
13 large services (oils, valve check, brakes, etc.) at $150-$300 each
5-7 belts at $35-$40 each +labor
6-8 sets of rollers at $30+ each +labor
8-10 tire changes at $35-$80 each +labor

And probably:
battery replacement
front and rear brakes
registration fees, depending on scooter and state

Well, I was going off a base assessment. Each type of bike is going to have different costs depending on what type: Vespa GTS will eat tires at twice the rate. Rattler 110's will add an additional $17 every 4 tanks for 2-stroke oil (The GOOD kind, not the chainsaw crap). Chinese bikes will add a grand to replace the previous one when it wears out every month... variables.

But, yeah. When you start actually adding in real-world costs it sure doesn't make a good argument to save money. That is unless you pay for parking in NYC or the like. Then it starts to look very tempting

ericalm wrote:Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:
13 regular services (oil changes, checks) at $60-$100 each
13 large services (oils, valve check, brakes, etc.) at $150-$300 each
5-7 belts at $35-$40 each +labor
6-8 sets of rollers at $30+ each +labor
8-10 tire changes at $35-$80 each +labor

And probably:
battery replacement
front and rear brakes
registration fees, depending on scooter and state

Well, you're certainly looking at the high end with those numbers. Since I'm a cheapskate, I'm learning how to do most of that myself, so the costs are a lot less.

Well... I'm the weirdo who replaced a car with a scooter, so for me, the savings has been remarkable. I understand that Orin pays premium prices for his service -- he's got a Vespa, for cryin' out loud! My Kymco isn't so spendy in maintenance, and is actually saving me over $2000/year in fuel and insurance at current prices.
.

Also, I do all my oil/gear oil changes at home. So easy, a caveman can do it.
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jprestonian wrote:Also, I do all my oil/gear oil changes at home. So easy, a caveman can do it.
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I could be wrong but I don't think there's a step-by-step (with pictures) "how to change your oil/gear oil" in the technical library. Would love to see one!

ericalm wrote:
Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:
13 regular services (oil changes, checks) at $60-$100 each
13 large services (oils, valve check, brakes, etc.) at $150-$300 each
5-7 belts at $35-$40 each +labor
6-8 sets of rollers at $30+ each +labor
8-10 tire changes at $35-$80 each +labor

And probably:
battery replacement
front and rear brakes
registration fees, depending on scooter and state

Yeah, I don't think you should really count ongoing maintenance costs. I would have to do this work regardless, either on the car or the bike.

jprestonian wrote:Also, I do all my oil/gear oil changes at home. So easy, a caveman can do it.
.

But, the point I think that is more at hand is that 90% of the people out there will NOT take any more effort to maintain a scooter bought due to gas prices aside from whipping out the credit card and filling up the tank (if even that much!). They think that, even with the math completely obvious, that a scooter will be some miracle catalyst for saving them thousands a year. They will assume that since it's not a "real bike" like a Harley that it is like their microwave and requires zero maintenance. Then, they will throw it away the first moment it has a need for an oil change or a new rear tire. And, advertising for motor scooters caters to this disposable image and really hasn't evolved in the US beyond it.

pugbuddy wrote:

jprestonian wrote:Also, I do all my oil/gear oil changes at home. So easy, a caveman can do it.
.

I could be wrong but I don't think there's a step-by-step (with pictures) "how to change your oil/gear oil" in the technical library. Would love to see one!

topic76.html

jprestonian wrote:Well... I'm the weirdo who replaced a car with a scooter, so for me, the savings has been remarkable. I understand that Orin pays premium prices for his service -- he's got a Vespa, for cryin' out loud! My Kymco isn't so spendy in maintenance, and is actually saving me over $2000/year in fuel and insurance at current prices.
.

another weirdo here and just getting weirder as i have no intention to cage again, ever. could change according to circumstance but i hope not!

so far as maintenance on my Kymco idk? i know the "recommended" service schedule is too frequent for major stuff so i am going to play it by ear. according to this thread the Agility can go well over 10,000 miles without so much as a new belt, roller, brakes, filters....almost nothing but tires! i don't intend to neglect my scooter, but would like to hold back monies for real repair and needed maintenance rather then over servicing. but these stories are encouraging!

http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=4851.0

great! hoping to get 50,000km / 32,000 miles out of mine

JHScoot wrote:

vwgrl1999 wrote:

ericalm wrote:I had so many thoughts on this, they're going to occupy a few thousand words over several posts over on ScooterFile.

The part most relevant to this discussion will probably be part 3, about whether it's actually possible to save money by buying a scooter in response to high gas prices and offering some suggestions for saving.

Spending over $3K + ongoing expenses such as insurance and registration to save what, for most people, is a fuel cost saving of maybe $10-$20 a week when gas is at its peak isn't actually saving money.

With respect, I'm not sure I agree w/your logic on this. I just quickly tallied up a little cost analysis of my car ('99 VW New Beetle, 5 sp @ ~ 30 mpg) vs. my scooter ('07 Honda Metropolitan @ ~95 mpg) factoring in insurance costs, maintenance and repair, purchase price, registration, inspection and incidentals (which really only come into play w/the scoot - riding gear) for the last 5 years. I bought my scooter new w/2 miles on it from the dealer in April of '08. I bought my car used w/65,000 miles on it in '06. I have full coverage insurance on both vehicles. My daily commute is currently ~35 miles one way, and yes I ride a 50cc scooter for the commute.

TOTALS ('08-'12) Beetle $13,010 Metro $4,064

This is by no means scientific in any way, shape or form. Even if you only take into consideration the money that I've saved in gas ($810), that's enough to cover all of the work that I've had done on the brakes on the Beetle in the past year! If I didn't have the scoot and had put those 9000 miles on the Beetle instead, I feel pretty certain that w/gas and maintenance and repairs, I would have come close to the $4,064 that I have spent total on the Metro.

i think what Admin is saying is many people spend thousands on a scooter and ride it just part time. and end up riding it not at all. especially if purchased to save on gas. now if you just get a cheap little scoot and putt around town 10 miles a day i am sure its cheaper then maintaining a car. and to buy, of course. much cheaper overall cost of ownership

but you know, people buy $5,000 scooters they can barely ride to save a bit of money on gas. they keep the car, drive the car, sell the scoot at a loss

people, just don't do it!

I totally agree about people thinking that a scooter is going to save them butloads of money. And hey, I only ride my scoot part time....I live in PA, riding season for me is basically April thru mid November and I also have a car and a restoration project ('87 VW Vanagon). I have no plans on giving up either car.
Saving money on gas wasn't my only reason for buying a scoot, but it was one of the reasons. I always wanted one (the old guy across the street from us growing up had an old Vespa that he occassionally rode). I came into a little bit of money, and took the plunge...now I can't imagine NOT having a scooter.
The savings in gas alone over the summer is actually quite noticeble to me. ~$10/wk on the scooter as opposed to ~$60/wk in the car. That's enough to scoot to the brew pub and down a few good beers and some lunch once a week!

heatherkay wrote:

ericalm wrote: Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:
13 regular services (oil changes, checks) at $60-$100 each
13 large services (oils, valve check, brakes, etc.) at $150-$300 each
5-7 belts at $35-$40 each +labor
6-8 sets of rollers at $30+ each +labor
8-10 tire changes at $35-$80 each +labor

And probably:
battery replacement
front and rear brakes
registration fees, depending on scooter and state

Yeah, I don't think you should really count ongoing maintenance costs. I would have to do this work regardless, either on the car or the bike.

Of course it counts! If you're trying to save, the cost of one should be compared to the other. Scooters need parts and maintenance much more often than most cars. In the past four years, I've spent more maintaining and repairing the scooters than on my car. That's not counting the top end rebuild for the Vespa or repairing the Stellla when it got knocked over in a parking lot. I do almost all of my regular maintenance myself.

Many of the people who bought scooters with savings in mind already wanted a scooter and were using the potential savings as a justification for buying. Some may have saved some money. Many didn't. In the end, it didn't matter because they got a scooter and love riding it. Nothing wrong with that!

pdxrita wrote:Well, you're certainly looking at the high end with those numbers. Since I'm a cheapskate, I'm learning how to do most of that myself, so the costs are a lot less.

"It saves money if you do all your own maintenance and repair" is a pretty crappy sales pitch. The average buyers looking to save money aren't intending to do all the work on their scooter themselves. The reason I started wrenching was that I was racking up miles so fast I couldn't afford to keep paying someone else for regular maintenance. I think that's true for many of us, because the more we ride, the more it costs.

I've found doing that work to be very rewarding, but it's not something I set out to do when I bought a scooter.