Modern Buddy

I apologize if anyone is getting sick of seeing all my dumb noob questions, but these super-small displacement engines and CVTs are a complete mystery to me.

I know on larger bikes, WOT ("wide open throttle", for any other noobs that might not have come across that abbreviation) is generally asking for trouble. Most modern bikes have enough power that they can easily sling themselves into a million pieces, hence the rev limiters on fuel injected, computer controlled models.

Lower power engines, however, aren't necessarily in the same danger of self destructing. My Ural, for example, only has 40 hp. At WOT, it might do 70 mph. It's turning some pretty high rpms, but it could run indefinitely that way (or it could break... Ural build quality and 1940's technology is always a gamble, but that's almost beside the point for this discussion). The engine simply doesn't have enough "oomph" to spin any faster, so the danger of slinging it apart is less than that of the high powered engines.

So, my question to the scooter gurus is this: just how bad is it to wring the snot out of them? Are these engines weak enough that they run out of rpms before they're dangerously high? Or is running a scooter hard living on borrowed time?

~SM

I ride my Fiddle WOT most all the time to keep up w/traffic on my commute. So far, so good :knockwood:

I think that the CDI includes rev limitation, so that you really wring the snot out of them. And the Buddy, Mr BigFoot, is about as bulletproof a scoot as there is out there.

I'm not a speed monster (if I were I wouldn't own a 50cc), but because of my scooter's limits I routinely have to ride him hard and put him away wet, and he's hasn't flown himself apart yet.

My commute is short, so the few minutes I ride WOT is tempered with a red light or stop sign here and there. Could I have broken in my engine more gently and received slightly better MPG if I had kept it about 60% throttle? Sure. Has it be loads of fun cranking the right hand and feeling the scooter pick up the pace? Why, yes; yes it has been.

I think the only real problem here is extended WOT, let's say 2-6 hrs of non-stop riding without a cool down break, day in and day out, everyday would do your engine in. Since the engines in most scooters are air cooled not giving them a rest after extended WOT is just looking for trouble.
I ride 9 miles to work, most of it WOT, no problems (yet) .

agrogod wrote:I think the only real problem here is extended WOT, let's say 2-6 hrs of non-stop riding without a cool down break, day in and day out, everyday would do your engine in. Since the engines in most scooters are air cooled not giving them a rest after extended WOT is just looking for trouble.
I ride 9 miles to work, most of it WOT, no problems (yet) .

Which brings to mind RobTaylor's Cannonball Buddy in 2008, I think. Bone stock except for an additional 2gal tank, I think. Allowed him to run for 2-300 miles at a stretch, all WOT. Prevailing opinion is the extended periods without any time for cool-down is what did him in after all but about 50 miles of cross country travel in about a week.

I'd say for normal use, the Buddy will serve you well, even wide open.

When I rode a 50cc, I rode WOT all the time. Thats not what you want to do for engine longevity. I have not gone WOT on my Buiddy 150 for extended periods of time. Would you drive a car WOT? Well, we all have, but im just sayin.

1000 miles in just under 24 hours. I rode WOT the entire time except when stopped for fuel.

That should answer your question. The scooter mentioned in the above post about the Cannonball was done with a 125 with no oil cooler. We honestly didn't know if my Buddy could do this or not, but it did and with no ill effects.

Howard

^^^ wow...I'm impressed. I've done 1,000 in 24 on a motorcycle a few times. But , THAT, is impressive on a buddy 125...not that it is EVER easy.

I think HEAT is the killer. If you run good oil and keep it from overheating I think it will take it. Keep up the maintenance. As others have said. I think short bursts of wOT are fine...apparently it can even take long runs ,too. I would still feel better with an oil cooler for that kind of running

Hold on let me get this straight, are you suggesting there is ways to hold the throttle other than wide open?

With the Buddy you get about 110- 120 mile per tankful. So long as you let the engine cool for awhile every time you fill up you shouldn't have any issues riding WOT. Of course this presumes that your scooter is well tuned, with clean oil, and otherwise in healthy mechanical condition.

My de-restricted 50cc get the WOT on the perimeter roads around my burg, because they are all 45 mph. In town, I don't have to go WOT to achieve the speed limit, but I go WOT from every stop.

Two Buddy 125s entered for CBR 2012. I'm interested to see how they do...
in my mirrors of course!

Swordsman wrote:So, my question to the scooter gurus is this: just how bad is it to wring the snot out of them? Are these engines weak enough that they run out of rpms before they're dangerously high? Or is running a scooter hard living on borrowed time?

The answer is kind of yes and kind of no.

You can run them WOT for long periods without self destructing. You can ride them WOT on a daily basis and be okay.

HOWEVER, if you're running mods or riding at the limits much of the time, it's best to shorten your maintenance intervals. Be diligent about it. You will obviously run through belts, rollers, tires and oil a lot faster than others. Riding around with worn parts means it's only a matter of time before you need a new variator, clutch, etc.

AND, it's better for the scooter to keep it stock. I've nothing against performance mods but if you're installing them so you can thrash the scooter day in/day out, don't expect to not wear out other parts of the scooter much faster. And if you do them, don't get creative or install a bunch of crap from mysterious eBay sellers in Hong Kong.

Thanks for all the information guys!

I live in GA, so heat is an issue for air cooled engines. What would you suggest as a maintenance routine for a scoot run WOT for 45 minutes in 90'F, 80% humidity?

(Yeah, summers suck @$$ down here )

~SM

Wipe the grin off your face before riding another 45 min WOT. No, seriously...by the time you've managed that, the engine will have cooled off plenty!
I changed my oil & filter every 2k miles (full synth). Valve check and CVT look over (belt dust, wear) every 4k, the routine stuff. Most of my riding was WOT on the Buddy. It never complained.

I think perhaps I should go for a long WOT ride to better familiarize myself with scooter behavior in the wild... you know, for science

Skootz Kabootz wrote:I think perhaps I should go for a long WOT ride to better familiarize myself with scooter behavior in the wild... you know, for science

i fully support that idea!

question about WOT and "jack rabbit" starts from red lights

i do this often cuz i want to get a quick jump out ahead of traffic. but i am not certain i am getting any extra oomph up to 40mph which is my intention. IOW is there any real advantage going WOT from standing start over just some aggressive throttle? i am trying to reason all this. i don't want to cause my engine undue wear and stress but going WOT seems necessary sometimes

on the other hand the little engine seems to spin well up to 40-45mph at WOT but i don't feel its much different in sound or fury from moderate throttle, and aren't sure i am reaching speed from a standstill any quicker

so, i am confused obviously. when to WOT and when to not under ordinary commuting