Modern Buddy

Just got a brand new (well, used, but only had 400mi on it) 170i and did my first fill up. When I stopped at the gas station, the needle was on E, but the pump stopped at just over half a gallon. When I started the scooter back up again the needle only went up to half a tank. Is this a typical thing with the tank, or do you think maybe the fuel gauge needs to be re-calibrated? This is my first scoot, so I'm not sure what to expect.

Thanks!

Don't put the nozzle all the way in the tank. The tank isn't that big. You should only be putting the nozzle in a couple inches at most.

Wecome to the club.

Filling up scooters is kind of an art. I think they expected us to get a 5 gallon can and do a fill from there.

My Zuma in particular is a PITA.

Here's what I do:

Side stand, key on so you can see the gauge. then I put it in a couple inches and just press slowly. I fill it up and then try to coax it into putting in @ 1.2 gallons from E.
I have had some vapor lock a time or two, but never since. Still, I try to leave some space (an inch or so) below the fill line.

Leaving it on while filling kind of scares me. Always taught to turn the car off, right? Also, there's a fill line? I've never seen one. It's dark in there!

There's the flange at the very top (on which the gas cap grips). Below that, about 1.5 inches, is another metal collar which helps support the nozzle. Fill no higher than this collar, as any higher can allow excess gas to get into the emissions-control hoses and canister, leading to a vacuum lock stall. Fuel up on the center stand for best results.

Fueling consistently to that collar will also help you compute MPG more reliably.

Brilliant! Thanks so much. I will take a look at that next time I'm out.

You can't put the nozzle all the way in like you would with a car. What you need to do is pull back the vapor recovery sleeve (assuming you have those there) and then put the nozzle in part way and start filling. You have to watch it and stop on your own. Don't rely on the auto stop. Sometimes you have to try compressing the sleeve a couple of different ways to get it to pump. It's designed to prohibit pumping if it's not seated, so what you're trying to do is block the vapor recovery hole. I usually get a bit over 1.1 gallons in my 150. I don't know if the 170 has the same capacity - I suspect it does.

Genuine lists the 170i as having a 1.7g tank.

TelPerian wrote:Genuine lists the 170i as having a 1.7g tank.

Yeah, they list the 150's and 125's as being in that range as well, but you'll never get that much in there.

TelPerian wrote:Genuine lists the 170i as having a 1.7g tank.

Even when I ran my 170 to the very bottom end of the red section of the fuel gauge and thought I might run out of gas, the MOST I ever filled my tank was about 1.3 gallons.

You have to hold the nozzle up and out so that you can see the gas level in the tank, but close enough in so that it doesn't splash and make a mess or get gas on that emissions collar PeteH talked about. It takes some trial and error.

I bought a little LED keychain light at the dollar store for the few times where I really needed the extra help seeing into my tank. (Pro tip: it is possible to lock your keys in the pet carrier. Be careful if you have them out while gassing up!!)

LunaP wrote:(Pro tip: it is possible to lock your keys in the pet carrier. Be careful if you have them out while gassing up!!)

another pro tip: if you do this, you can get them out another way.

...and what's that?

black sunshine wrote:

LunaP wrote:(Pro tip: it is possible to lock your keys in the pet carrier. Be careful if you have them out while gassing up!!)

another pro tip: if you do this, you can get them out another way.

Yes. In my case, it was call Lokky and have him ride out with the spare key, and have a good laugh of it.

But somewhere I have the directions for the roundabout way, which I was advised of after this happened to me.

Gas bubbles up a lot when it comes out of the nozzle, like champagne, only not as tasty. You can't rely on auto shut off. To fill completely, you'll have to pull the nozzle, go slowly, and keep checking it. But give it a second to settle. It will bubble up and shut the nozzle off, then settle down when there's still a lot of room.

TelPerian wrote:Leaving it on while filling kind of scares me. Always taught to turn the car off, right? Also, there's a fill line? I've never seen one. It's dark in there!

Don't leave the engine running, use the kill switch and leave the key in the "on" position.
I was always taught to turn my car ENGINE off of course, but sometimes I leave the key in the "on" position to listen to the radio... so the same goes for the scooter (obviously not to listen to the radio, but to watch the fuel gauge).

The most I have ever gotten in my tank is 1.09 gallons, and that was from riding it home, then to work the next morning with the needle all the way to the E (about 24 miles total), and getting gas at the station across the street from the mall parking lot.
I always hold the nozzle just a bit above the collar so that I can see the level in the tank, I never actually put the nozzle IN the tank itself. The fill "line" that I go by is that metal collar around the top, I usually leave an inch to a half inch of space below that collar and I have been perfectly fine for more than 1,000 miles now.

ericalm wrote:Gas bubbles up a lot when it comes out of the nozzle, like champagne, only not as tasty. You can't rely on auto shut off. To fill completely, you'll have to pull the nozzle, go slowly, and keep checking it. But give it a second to settle. It will bubble up and shut the nozzle off, then settle down when there's still a lot of room.

Can I rant? Have I earned ranting privileges? As a former gas station attendant of an OLD gas station... guys and gals, seriously, use the auto-shutoff at your own risk. The auto shut off works by sensing pressure inside your tank. If for ANY reason, the rubber skirt on the nozzle doesn't seal around your gas tank entrance on the side of your car properly, it won't sense the pressure properly and will either cut of early OR it won't cut off at all. I can't tell you how many times I had irate, inattentive idiots come in angry at me demanding their money back because they weren't paying attention- or, they came in freaking out that gas was everywhere, and I absolutely must clean it up right away (when in reality it was less that a gallon spilt, and there's really no way to clean it... gasoline evaporates very quickly, by the way). PEOPLE ARE RIDICULOUS.

Anyways, this is why you can't use the auto-shutoff on a scoot. /rant

fuel gauge? on a scooter?

With all due respect to PGO and Genuine, the claim that the Buddy has a 1.7 gallon gas tank is about as credible as teenage boys describing the size of their best friend. Once after running out of gas, and trying in vain to get it running again even for a second, I was able to fit 1.302 gallons into it.

yup. no way that thing holds near 2g. when i filled last night the tank was LOW and it took just $3.26 at $4.55 a gallon

I think that a ONE Gallon tank on any vehicle is a JOKE.
Whether that be a Stella, Buddy or any other. Come on you manufacturers-
There is no reason that the tank cannot be made to hold at least 2 gallons maybe more. there is sufficient room within that structure.

AND while we are at it, why do they make the crank-case hold 0.85 liters of oil?
Are they not aware that oil is purchased in 1 liter/1 quart cans/bottles?
Could they not increase the internal volume to accommodate one full liter?

If some aftermarket company offered a Gas tank with 2.0 gallons (for Off-Road use only) ha ha - how many people would buy it?

I think the problem stems from the perception that scooters are only used in cities, and around town for errands on perfect sunny days.

Len wrote:AND while we are at it, why do they make the crank-case hold 0.85 liters of oil?
Are they not aware that oil is purchased in 1 liter/1 quart cans/bottles?
Could they not increase the internal volume to accommodate one full liter?

Most standard VWs hold 2.2-ish L of gear oil. So you have to actually buy three liters to get that extra .2 in there. It's stupid, but that's how companies make their money.
So at least in the scooter's defense you're only buying a wee bit more than you need, not nearly a whole L more than you need.

Len wrote:AND while we are at it, why do they make the crank-case hold 0.85 liters of oil?
Are they not aware that oil is purchased in 1 liter/1 quart cans/bottles?
Could they not increase the internal volume to accommodate one full liter?

I prefer that manufacturers focus on designing equipment to meet the engineering needs of the function, rather than trying to make it fit some arbitrary container size.
Much like I don't think that the human stomach should be made larger just to accommodate the fact that beverages are now sold in 2-liter bottles instead of the 32-ounce bottles they had when I was a kid.

Len wrote:I think that a ONE Gallon tank on any vehicle is a JOKE.
Whether that be a Stella, Buddy or any other. Come on you manufacturers-
There is no reason that the tank cannot be made to hold at least 2 gallons maybe more. there is sufficient room within that structure.

AND while we are at it, why do they make the crank-case hold 0.85 liters of oil?
Are they not aware that oil is purchased in 1 liter/1 quart cans/bottles?
Could they not increase the internal volume to accommodate one full liter?

If some aftermarket company offered a Gas tank with 2.0 gallons (for Off-Road use only) ha ha - how many people would buy it?

I think the problem stems from the perception that scooters are only used in cities, and around town for errands on perfect sunny days.

Why don't hot dogs and hot dog buns come in the same quantities?
(There is a reason for this. Just sayin'…)

You want much larger gas tanks, than get ready for some larger and funny-looking scooters.

Honestly, many of these engines need to cool every 90 minutes or so if you're doing a lot of WOT riding. Put a 2 gallon tank on a Buddy 125 and you could run into heat issues. So then add liquid cooling. You'll have an even bigger and funnier looking Buddy!

I know that when I ran out of gas in the Stella, there was still gas in the tank, sloshing around in there. I could see and hear it. It just wasn't getting where it needed to go. Maybe it's different for scoots with fuel pumps. Maybe all tanks should be designed with internal channels and funnels at the bottom to eke out every drop.

Len wrote:I think that a ONE Gallon tank on any vehicle is a JOKE.
[snip]
I think the problem stems from the perception that scooters are only used in cities, and around town for errands on perfect sunny days.

You answered your own question. The overwhelming majority of scooters are used in cities as primary transportation to and from work, school and shops. Even in the US, short rides are the vast majority (from rentals, cheap transport in cities for messengers, students, etc.).

Less fuel also keeps weight down so even small riders can ride comfortably, including small women and children (again, thinking outside of the US market).