Modern Buddy

Today, this morning, I got behind a "sprited" mini driver. I followed closely at first, which I believe made him nervous. After a while he "got it" and had fun. I could keep with the mini mostly, except in some short burts that car has, altough I caught up quickly. I dont recomend this really, as for most its not safe, including me. But I looked before I changed lanes and signaled when I could. Love to get one of those minis, but I need more space(luggage room, not to mention $". The handling on those is great. I did keep up in trafic on a 45 "business district road. He liked it I could see. We and mini drivers seem to have this in common. We know bigger isnt better. There is a kin-ship. Just a story That I made it through. Wont happen again. Side note. I ran behind a mini when I had 400 miles on scoot. COuld not keep up. Broken in helps alot. NEED A MINI! -Dan

Edit-I probably lied. It will happen again.

Just make sure you follow the nice driver and not one like the asshat that got all over Cape Cod Psycho!

Exactly SYD. To be honest I dont recommend what I did, not that Im an awesome rider.(but I do think I have inherent ability.) I could have been unseen and WHAM. But it was fun. I want a MINI COOPER dammit! ANd SYD, what with you jumpin in my poop in the NBA playoff thread. UNCOOL. J/K J/K J/K. Always a straight shooter you. Hope things are well in Tempe. Hot Im sure. And have you ever considered a gasoline additive for ethanol?

I am so with you... I have wanted a mini sooooooo bad I can taste it... They are really great little cars. Mini drivers are usually... Not always it 95% of the time scooter friendly types... Kindred spirits perhaps? Unlike BMW drivers who are complete douches 95% of the time. Not all Of the time... Don't want to generalize too much but wow... I had three of them today.... All silver? All going well above the speed limits in 30mph marked areas. They really don't think they are above the rules. That said, I was out on my scooter for about 4 hours and most people were very cool... Saw about 20 scooters in South Saint Louis today ...3 Buddies

Before you are sold on a Mini. I have a Fiat 500C and think it is even nicer than a Mini for less money. But again it does not have the emblem
stuck on like the BMW crowd. Also it has a more retro, italian styling similar to the 2 tone Genuines out there. I find that some Mini drivers try to impress when they spot the Fiat 500. Each to their own.

I would love to get my hands on a supercharged mini!

None of you want a Mini. Or won't once you get a scooter / mc behind you and think "wtf am I doing in this thing?"

Idk if I ever need a car again for work or business, fine. But otherwise meh. Family? Nope. Pleasure / comfort? Nah. They don't attract me anymore. I must confess I do get curious about the driver when behind a little convertible, though. I do feel sort of a kinship. No hiding in the cage

But I was visiting friends and family last weekend and the topic turned to cars and how a recent divorcee should ditch her minivan and get something cool like a Ford Edge to attract a man, and I just had to laugh.

You see, a Ford Edge. Adventurous and daring. Well, compared to a Honda Odessy, apparently.

JHScoot wrote:
You see, a Ford Edge. Adventurous and daring. Well, compared to a Honda Odessy, apparently.

lol thats because its got the word "Edge" in it.
How about the Ford Fiesta?

I like the Fiat 500 a lot too, but I'd want to see how well it does in the long run. I had an OLD Ford Fiesta... I learned to drive a stick on it.... That thing went forever.

I've got the best of both worlds; wife has a Mini Clubman that I use from time to time and the other 90% of the time I've got Bogie....

I spent a term at the University of Aberdeen back in the 1980s, back before the Mini got its current steroid makeover, and was just a subcompact economy car. One of my flatmates and his Royal Navy pals used to get pissed on the weekends and go round the university parking lots picking up Minis and moving them to different places in the parking lot. Just because they could.

Uncle Groucho wrote:I've got the best of both worlds; wife has a Mini Clubman that I use from time to time and the other 90% of the time I've got Bogie....

Same here. The Mrs. drives an '03 Cooper. I could just chase her around the neighborhood.

Oh, and Ford Flex = Stretch MINI.

scootavaran wrote:

JHScoot wrote:
You see, a Ford Edge. Adventurous and daring. Well, compared to a Honda Odessy, apparently.

lol thats because its got the word "Edge" in it.
How about the Ford Fiesta?

Yes, it's Edgy. I wonder if Edge has one? From U2...

But the conversation was somewhat serious. Two kids, recent divorcee, and what kind of message did a minivan send to single men out there? What would it help her attract? She needed something which said she was bold.

Cars I would dare say, even race cars, are not bold compared to a 150cc scooter rode with spirit. So what does it matter if she drives a minivan or a sportute? A Suburban was mentioned lol. Just what the road needs. Another soccer mom in a two ton dinosaur. But let me suggest she ride a mc or a scooter and the looks would come as if i were crazy!

But hey, she might attract a fireman if she gets the 'burb!

I don't know if it's how I ride or what? I think some ride 40mph, hold the lane, never move. And thats great. But riding a scooter is often described as "breezy" and even "relaxing." And it's thought of that way by many non riders. I don't get that? I definitely side on the "small motorcycle" side of things. Ride like hell

I was out in Hollywood riding the other night and lot's of bikes were out. Really nice night. On the way back home I kept up with a Triumph just fine at all the lights, beating traffic all the while. It was really fun. And lot's of people out and about at the Pantages. RIGHT IN MY FACE as they crossed the street.

No car can give that sort of experience. Ever.

I'll date that minivan woman and turn her into an evil scooterist, is what I'll do.

Well I just have to qualify the above by saying i know many people need cars and choose to drive them, need to drive them, like to drive them, etc. Riders do. Cars are fun. But that was sort of my point, too. Just let her have the minivan and leave her alone. It's practical for her. Like we defend our scooters sometimes. But she drives what she drives. Who cares?

But if in the minds of non riders sending a bold message to the single male by the single woman means driving a Ford Edge rather then a minivan....well, I am at a loss at the rules of current suburban living

Mutt the Hoople wrote:I like the Fiat 500 a lot too, but I'd want to see how well it does in the long run. I had an OLD Ford Fiesta... I learned to drive a stick on it.... That thing went forever.

LOVE the looks of the Fiat too, but two questions. Do they break alot? How $ are repairs? Sounds like we are on the same page. I did get a look at one in person while in traffic. VERY nice looking and although similiar to a mini-coop, they are still unique.

Exactly. So far Consumer Reports have given the Fiat 500 really good ratings. I test drove one, and I liked the way that is was laid out, it was fun to drive.... Not quite as zippy as the Mini, but very fun. Maybe they really do have an excellent product,but Fiats....remember too many bad ones from the 1970s. But if they got it right, I think it would definitely fill a niche. Not everyone wants a big SUV or whatever. I love the old Honda Civics, and despite them small size, you could fit a lot of stuff into them. I want a bigger scoot, but I still need a car... I can't take the dog to the vet on a scooter, or for a ride. Poor Winston already gets the picture. Used to be when I picked up the keys he starte wagging like yayyyyy ride time. He sees me pick up my helmet, and he gets in a huff and pouts.

We bought a Fiat 500 for my wife a few weeks ago. She loves it! She doesn't really have a thing for Italy, but between the Fiat and her Italia, I'm not so sure As for the car, it feels really solid and if reviews from Europeans can be trusted should be quite reliable.

I'll just keep riding my Pamplona and driving my POS Saturn on rainy days. Is there a Spanish car company? Seat? Do they even exist in the USA?

I've neer been impressed with the Mini or "Smart" Car's MPG. Does the Fiat do better?

I like the look of the little cars, and I'm sure I would love the maneuverabiltiy and ease of parking, but until the MPG improves quite a bit, I'll hang on to my Corolla. That said...it's stayed in the garage the last 2-3 weeks...the weather's MUCH to good to not be scooting!

My wife is still getting used to driving a manual, but she's been averaging 32 mpg with mostly city driving.

manual_overide wrote:My wife is still getting used to driving a manual, but she's been averaging 32 mpg with mostly city driving.

IMHO....if it dont click like you have done it your whole life, it dont work. You are talking about to and fro work. I try to find EVERY single chance to go as fast as I can. Lotta great Scooter riders in this place. Eric. I have benifited from your guidence.

Sounds like test drives are in order for both! A friend of mine got a mini recently and LOVES it... says he hated driving in PHX until the coop.

Sold our mini convertable for our scooter, The cooper (not the S)had no power, was stick shift , and have driven stick for 30 years so that wasn't it, just a terrible drive
IMHO

Love little cars. tha Misus drive a scion Xa, it gettin old but it's paid for
I say this all the time and nobody believes me, but my dream car is a fully restored and a bit tricked out Honda cvcc, it was my dads car when I stated to drive and became mine, I loved that little car.

I would swear, and maybe because it gas was alot cheaper back then, but that damn car got way better gas mileage than anything today.

http://www.adclassix.com/images/79honda ... fuller.jpg

*edit because picture link was all kinda wonky

Was the cvcc a hatchback?

why yes, yes it was....

Yeah, the small cars today are super cute and are probably a blast to drive, but I'm frustrated by the fact that they get so much worse mpg than those old (tiny) Honda Civics, then later the CRXs, of the 70s or 80s (can't remember when they came out). They got between 50 & 65 mpg if I recall correctly. Of course, I was too broke in those days to buy one, so I do not speak from personal experience, just from what was published about them.

Seems that cars had a lot of emissions crap on them back in the 70s/80s too (at least my California emissions 1979 Datsun truck sure did!), but maybe not all vehicles did....? Plus the small cars now probably are higher performance, but I wouldn't know by how much.

Maybe someone with experience with both the old and new could pipe up...?

Today's cars have more emissions crap than 70's cars, plus many hundreds of pounds of required saftey equipment to haul around. That and sound deadening materials and all the entertainment options that today's customer requires, plus the crash standards that have to be met, have made today's cars much, much larger, nicer, and safer at the expense of fuel economy.

Then there's the power. I saw something where they compared a new Honda Civic or Accord to a Ferrari from the 70's and the Honda was so much more powerful and way faster than the Ferrari. Progress, eh?

michelle_7728 wrote:Yeah, the small cars today are super cute and are probably a blast to drive, but I'm frustrated by the fact that they get so much worse mpg than those old (tiny) Honda Civics, then later the CRXs, of the 70s or 80s (can't remember when they came out). They got between 50 & 65 mpg if I recall correctly. Of course, I was too broke in those days to buy one, so I do not speak from personal experience, just from what was published about them.

Seems that cars had a lot of emissions crap on them back in the 70s/80s too (at least my California emissions 1979 Datsun truck sure did!), but maybe not all vehicles did....? Plus the small cars now probably are higher performance, but I wouldn't know by how much.

Maybe someone with experience with both the old and new could pipe up...?

First car at 17 was a CRXsi. That car was so sweet.

Michelle is correct. The fuel efficiency of the compact cars in the 70's was far better than the fuel efficiency of today's small cars. The extra emissions components and safety components only add a couple hundred pounds compared to the 70's. Not enough to make that much of a difference in MPG. But the main difference is size and power. A Civic in the 70's was FAR smaller than Civic's today. Heck, today's Civic's are FAR larger than Accords way back when. And the power difference is amazing. A Honda Civic back in 1975 only put out 53hp. Today's Civics put out 140hp.

Americans have demanded bigger and bigger cars with more and more power for decades. We have no one to blame but ourselves. The fact that we here on MB drive scooters means we don't think that way. In fact, we think the opposite. But the general public outnumbers us 100,000 to 1. And dollars speak. So we lose out.

I'm sure if Honda put all their modern technology to use, they could make a 50hp Civic today that would get 80mpg instead of the 50mpg it used to get back then. Heck, I think the Dodge Colt (or some other tiny American import) used to get 60mpg in the 70's.

True. My 1978 Ford Fiesta got 40mpg, my 1988 Honda Civic got 40mpg. Both 4 cylinder 4-speed manuals. My 1995 Lexus ES300 six cylinder got 32-34mpg Not terrible considering it was a larger car. But my 2004 Sebring 4-cylinder gets 27mpg. What the heck.

When I bought my Fiat 500C it came with a three year maintenance free
package. I have the six speed auto and average 36 MPG overall drivining.
It takes regulat gas compared to others which need high test. I can keep the back seats folded down and the dog gets in & out through the trunk door and really enjoys riding in the car and has a lot of windows to
enjoy the ride. Some of the other subcompacts only have a four speed automatic and this makes a big difference. It has sufficient power but is not a race car and the Abarth I think just came out for more aggresive handling & power.

We have a 2008 mini clubman (non S) and 2 150cc buddy's. We LOVE our mini in the same way we love our scoots....zippy zippy go cart feel. My mom had an mini cooper automatic and it wasn't super fun to drive, but the stick is. And even with our foot to the floor we get about 33 or 34 mpg.
We also have a 2012 Tacoma..I adore it too...completely different animal. But it hauls our scooters and big trailer nicely!

I looked at the smart car too but not the fiat. The smart car feels like a plastic toy car. My mini feels tight and solid like a BMW.
The fiat looks cute as hell too.

I never drove or riden in a Smart car, think it does not look to safe from the rear, especially with all the tailgaters on the road. The Fiat 500C also feels solid and handles well. With gas fill up today averaged 38 MPG.

I was excited about the Smart when they announced it but much less so after test driving one and once they hit the market. I was pretty disappointed that they didn't come out with the diesel, coupe or other versions that were formerly available in Europe. The performance, price and fuel economy didn't justify the sacrifice in space (for me). If I still lived in a neighborhood where I had to park on crowded streets every night, I might have felt differently.

The Fiat has become very popular around here in almost no time at all. I've yet to test drive one, as I was waiting for the Abarth. In terms of aesthetics and size, though, it's right up my alley.

I once coveted Mini Coopers and still like them quite a bit. I was set on buying a Clubman in 2008, but got frustrated and a bit miffed that they were charging exorbitant "location fees" ($7,000 for a Mini in LA) and other added charges. All in all, the car would have cost more than $10K over what their online configuration quoted me. On top of that, there was no haggling or incentives on financing. At that time, as the sales guy told me, the local demand was so high they could do whatever they liked in terms of charges, fees and financing. People were putting 20%-30% down to get one. It was kind of insane. That didn't last.

In LA, it's very common for people to move here, get a job in "the industry" or whatever and immediately run out and buy (usually lease, actually) a car they can't actually afford. This is why there are tons of late-model used cars on the market. There are a pair of lots near my house that are literally filled with nothing but used Minis. Probably many were sold back to the dealer, repo'd, defaulted on, etc. by those who bought one they couldn't pay for after they lost that great job. I'm sure those people would have a much tougher time financing a car now. I hope.

ericalm wrote:In LA, it's very common for people to move here, get a job in "the industry" or whatever and immediately run out and buy (usually lease, actually) a car they can't actually afford. This is why there are tons of late-model used cars on the market. There are a pair of lots near my house that are literally filled with nothing but used Minis. Probably many were sold back to the dealer, repo'd, defaulted on, etc. by those who bought one they couldn't pay for after they lost that great job. I'm sure those people would have a much tougher time financing a car now. I hope.

So are they dirt cheap on the used market now? With that many available, you'd think they'd be cheap. Would you consider used?

The Abarth version is out now. Fiat is still getting their act together. If you test drive one try pushing the sport button on the dash. When I test drove them I tried each model (prior to the abarth) with shift and automatic. The salesman said if you feel like the car is going to roll over push the sport button. The autopilot takes over and the braking, suspension etc give the car a different feel. Prices are pretty much set with destination charges etc but depending on the type of wheels, tires, etc upgrades the price can get up there so a little research helps keep things in check.
I like the style of the car retro 1957. That is why I would like a Stella 2T
with sidecar. Never drove a Stella or anything with a side car. Does the Stella shift with your hand not foot? and what is your impression of sidecaring one? THought good way for the dog to come along for the ride but some people say a dog may not like the ride.

k1dude wrote:Michelle is correct. The fuel efficiency of the compact cars in the 70's was far better than the fuel efficiency of today's small cars. The extra emissions components and safety components only add a couple hundred pounds compared to the 70's. Not enough to make that much of a difference in MPG. But the main difference is size and power. A Civic in the 70's was FAR smaller than Civic's today. Heck, today's Civic's are FAR larger than Accords way back when. And the power difference is amazing. A Honda Civic back in 1975 only put out 53hp. Today's Civics put out 140hp.

I agree with all of that except for the couple hundred pounds part. Wikipedia shows the '73 - '79 Civic with a curb weight of 1500lbs. By 2003 the curb weight of the 2 door Civic has blossomed to 2520lbs. I think (I remember reading it somewhere too) that much of that weight increase is due to safety measures engineered into the design. Honestly, which car would you rather get T-Boned while driving - a '73 Civic or a '03 Civic?

But I sure do miss the 41mpg I got out of the '79 Subaru GF hardtop I had.

Syd wrote:I agree with all of that except for the couple hundred pounds part. Wikipedia shows the '73 - '79 Civic with a curb weight of 1500lbs. By 2003 the curb weight of the 2 door Civic has blossomed to 2520lbs. I think (I remember reading it somewhere too) that much of that weight increase is due to safety measures engineered into the design. Honestly, which car would you rather get T-Boned while driving - a '73 Civic or a '03 Civic?

Nope. It has to do with size and power. The safety components don't weigh that much. The current Civic is 2 feet longer and a foot wider than a 1975 Civic. It's also 10% taller. The engine has triple the HP and double the weight over the old. The suspension and transmission are much heavier to handle the extra weight and power. And check out the crash test results of tiny and lightweight cars. They're pretty damn good.

50CC Cape Cod wrote:Does the Stella shift with your hand not foot? and what is your impression of sidecaring one? THought good way for the dog to come along for the ride but some people say a dog may not like the ride.

Stella (and most classic manual scooters, with some exceptions) shifts using the left grip. Clutch and twist with the left hand.

I have seen many happy dogs in sidecars. Mostly dogs large enough to need one.

We have a Mini and we LOVE it. No trunk to speak of but it is actually passenger spacious. It actually has more front seat room than our Jetta wagon did. I would say that it is about as close as you can get to two wheels on four wheels.