Be Safe Out There

[tommyred]

Last week I got sideswiped by an old guy in his van. It was on a road with two lanes going each way. On my side of the street there was a truck in the left lane, and a florist van in the right. The van had no directionals on, so I pull up on the side of the van to take a right turn, like we all do. Well, he wasnt going straight and took a right turn...right into me!!!

He ended up pinning my ankle between his van and my Buddy, and he just kept going. I was lucky enough that I was right next to a handicapped ramp, and got thrown that way, but not before I punched the end panel on the van, so he stopped. I went to Kaiser Urgent Care for X-rays, and luckily no breaks, just a sprained ankle & some minor ligament damage..

But two days later, I'm riding down the street and every time I hit a little bump, I felt a pain in my back. I took no chances and went to the ER. They did a CAT scan and saw a small pocket of liquid on my spleen, and they stated it was directly related to the accident.

Happy to say the driver and his insurance company took full liability over it, so Big Red is in the shop getting fixed.

Good news is I found myself a personal injury lawyer to protect myself, but the bad news is, it could take 12 to 18 months to settle. By the time the lawyer gets paid and Kaiser gets paid, I might have enough for a new Buddy 170i, or Blur SS 220i.

Not a very good way to get a new scoot, but from now on, I'm staying behind any vehicle in my lane, and no more sliding up beside them to take a right and instead wait for the green light.

[Drum Pro]

Thats exactly one of the reasons I dont lane filter/ split or whatever you wanna call it. I was almost hit a few says ago when some mustang decided he wanted to veer into my lane at the last moment as I was coming to a left turn lane. I was lucky enough to catch him in time, speed up and get into far left turning lane (there are two). I blame the moon. It's throwing all the cagers juju outta wack when they get into them....(or it could be the heat)

[Tam Tam]

Hope it all works out okay, man. i gotta tell you, I don't slide past vehicles to take right turns anymore. I fight for my space, so I have an 'air cushion' about me. I've had folks, if i'm too far left or right in a lane, just casually pull aside next to me at a red light before.
Plus, yesterday, within 30 seconds on the same road, had two fools just lazily turn onto the road and slowly accelerate (the speed limit is 45mph). This means either hard brake and hope, or fast lane change.

Fingers crossed for your situation.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Sorry about your accident. Glad it seems to be working out but that has to be cold comfort. So many people are just clueless stupid drivers. It is pretty sickening. I blame a lot of it on the rise of SUVs as well as cell phones. I have never had the urge to drive an SUV. Not that I am condemning all of them, but ther really is a certain mentality, especially among women. To be honest, women SUV drivers are by far the worst offenders. Not letting guys off of the hook, they can be boneheads too, but maybe 7 out of 10 times, it is a middle aged female behind the wheel when I see ultra stupid moves. They are my age bracket. Unfortunately, in some cases, they are my friends... And sometimes I have even been in the vehicle with them and have witnessed what they said and did while they were doing something careless and stupid. So let's be honest. How many times have we heard people say that they don't want a smaller car, because they want to feel "safer" (which is already somewhat of a false premise as SUVs often do worse in crash tests.... Haha.. Not the size that counts). True, you can see SOME things better, if you are sitting higher, but that only counts if you BOTHER TO LOOK). Which in some cases means looking down, and not just out... in case the person right next to you at the intersection is a smaller car, cycle, scooter. They don't just look right through you if you are on some form of a two-wheeled motorized vehicle. They look right over you if you are in what used to be a fairly normal sized 4-door sedan. I drive a Sebring.... With that attitude, I really don't feel that much safer than when I am on my scooter. They look right over the top of your car and nev see you. At least on a scooter, I feel that in certain circumstances I can at least maneuver out of the way, where in a car, at a stop, you are at their mercy. So, THEY feel "safer".

But in the following years since the rise of the SUV as the "great American vehicle" , have any of you noticed a shift from "feeling safer" to more aggressive driving habits that may have stemmed from from being bigger and "feeling safer"? I've seen it in my own friends... They take more chances, feel perfectly fine pulling out if it is just a small car coming because they are pretty shore they will give way to the larger vehicle, (common sense) so they brazenly just pull out. Add a cellphone, and yikes. And of course they all feel like they are expert drivers, and unlike others, they can drive their vehicle safely while THEY drive... Except they are NOT safe and are oblivious to all the near misses they have because they are yapping on the phone not paying attention. I refuse to get on the car with about 50% of them. They think I have become a terrible person since I got my scooter, because I have told them that their horrible driving habits are going to hurt someone. ALL of them have had fender benders, that they blame the other person for... More tha. A few have had several fender benders in a year. I haven't had a moving violation in over 20 years. I guess I have different priorities. Anyway, just an observation. The rotten male drivers... They have a different MO. They are more likely to be the ones tailgaiting you riding up your ass even you are going a bit over the speed limit, pass in a huff and cut you off too closely... Different kind of aggression.

My brother is the safest driver I know. He rode a motorcycle for years. Thee was a time when I would have thought motorcycle rider = risk-taker= bad driver. I was wrong.

Not anything exactly to do with delivery vans, but just about observing what is going on out there and what to watch out for. Anyone else notice anything similar?

[jprestonian]

Just want to note here that Tennessee had its 40th motorcycle fatality this season over the weekend.
.

[pdxrita]

So sorry to hear this, but glad you're here to tell about it. We just had a bicyclist killed here in downtown Portland a couple of days ago in the same situation. She came up on the right next to a semi trailer, he turned and caught her, and her bike, under the back wheel. She died within hours. I also had a friend get her car totaled in a similar way years ago. So not to criticize you, but for anyone reading this, I'd suggest never pulling up to the right of a vehicle where the driver can't see you. It's a very dangerous thing to do.

[tommyred]

So sorry to hear this, but glad you're here to tell about it.... I'd suggest never pulling up to the right of a vehicle where the driver can't see you. It's a very dangerous thing to do.

Thanx...I vow not to anymore, because I was doing it at most right hand turns if the car had no directional on. Now I'm gonna wait in line like a cager. As they say, rather be safe than sorry.

[Stormswift]

I can tell you from drivers perspective: when I am in my lane I do not expect someone to slide up next to me in my lane either on my right or on my left. There Is no lane splitting in Maryland for which I am glad both as a rider and as a driver. I know that among riders the common mantra is " they (cagers) do not see us. " What we riders often fail to take into account is something repeatedly mentioned in both MSF and DMV manuals: blind spots. Those are very real and very dangerous for riders to be in. I would not automatically assume that someone cut me off because they are idiots, careless, on the phone etc. If I am in a blind spot of a truck/ SUV they can look all they want: they just cannot see me. That is why when i am first at an intersection ready to make a turn in my mini SUV I hugg the curve. To make sure I do not leave any room for a bicyclists or scoters to try and sneak past me on my right where I just cannot see them.

[Mutt the Hoople]

We don't have lane splitting in Missouri either. Not a bad thing. You are right about blind spots too. But lately I have just seen some unbelievably bad driving. And twice,mast week I saw... I did not assume, a woman talking on the cell phone, stopped on a side road waiting to make a turn onto a more major road, look to the right, and NEVER look to the left... Even though the left hand lane is the closest. Another one was coming out of Target... Did not look or even glance to the right even once. Also in Saint Louis, we have all kinds of red-light cameras. It may get the car... But not necessarily the person driving it. A friend of mine was using my car while she was getting some works done on hers, ran a red light, then I got the ticket in the mal. I was not even in the car at the time. So the state makes revenu, but it does not necessarily make careless drivers think a bit more.

[skully93]

Yeah, I always stay out of the 'no zone' of other vehicles. It may mean I hang back a little or speed up to be in front where they can see me, but remembering the large blind spots in my car, I shudder!

Glad you're basically OK, be safe!

[Mutt the Hoople]

OMG... I almost got creamed by the same driver twice today... Three hour apart!!!

I was on a little side street by Blueberry Hill going on to Delmar. I was behind. Huge whit SUV who was sitting waiting for the light. She started backing up. I have no idea why. She was stopped behind the line. I was not too close to her but she was not looking... I'm honking, she's ignoring. I was able to swerve around her to her passenger side and rapped on her window... She looked up from her cell phone conversation in a startled way. I said HEY... I was behind you, you almost backed over me. She gave me this "duh, I'm so sorry" shrug and I shook my head and rode off. A couple hours later I am coming back from my errands. I am first in line for the light to change. I am safely behind the stop line and I am not hugging the lane line... Just a little left of center. And WHO comes by... Making a left hand turn too closely and STILL TALKING ON THE CELL PHONE???? Ms Urban assault vehicle bleach blonde middle age bimbo. She cuts WAY to close and runs that honking big thing over my foot!!! I had boots on but yow. I had mostly gotten out of her way when I saw how close she was taking it. I followed her into the has station and said WTF... Do you recognize me? She was starting to put gas in her tank and she was STILL talking on the phone... She gave me this "wait a minute motio" and I grabbed her cell phone and dropped in the tub with the dirty soapy water and the squeegee and asked if she had a minute now. I said you almost hit me TWICE!!! TODAY.... In three hours. I hit a cat once and was shaken up for weeks. If I'd almost hit a person while I was yapping on my cell phone it would have been a major wake up call and I would not be doing that again. She wanted me to pay for her phone. I said call a cop. There are cameras on both intersections... Let's see what they have to say. She said nothing after that. I went home and I'm still mad. I am not the kind of person who wrecks other people's property. And for that matter I am pretty quiet, but TWICE and it did not even register. That was the part that made me loose it. For goodness sake, what is the chance?

I love scootering, but the drivers... Whoa. What's in the water lately?

[PeteH]

I shall be on my best behavior if I'm driving my car in your neighborhood!

[ThreeSheets]

Glad you are OK and able to post this. I hope that you get what you deserve out of the settlement. Best of luck with everything!

[Mutt the Hoople]

Glad you are OK and able to post this. I hope that you get what you deserve out of the settlement. Best of luck with everything!

Good point. Has anyone heard from the original poster? I hope he is doing okay.

[skully93]

While I can't condone violence to phones, I will say I think that's a fair response! Sounds like the type that should be on the bus....

I haven't heard from the original poster at all!

[ericalm]

OMG... I almost got creamed by the same driver twice today... Three hour apart!!!

HOLY CRAP. Over your foot?!

At that point, I'd have called the police at the gas station. She'd have been in for a lot more than just a wet phone. She ran over you and drove away from the scene. She's probably on the cameras talking on the phone.

I'm steaming just reading and writing about this!

I'm not sure I would have reacted as well as you did, even.

[Mutt the Hoople]

OMG... I almost got creamed by the same driver twice today... Three hour apart!!!

HOLY CRAP. Over your foot?!

At that point, I'd have called the police at the gas station. She'd have been in for a lot more than just a wet phone. She ran over you and drove away from the scene. She's probably on the cameras talking on the phone.

I'm steaming just reading and writing about this!

I'm not sure I would have reacted as well as you did, even.

Yeah. Over my foot. Icon boots are pretty darn good BTW... I have a slightly bruised pinky toe, and that's about all... But I am still hoppin' mad. She did not even remember me from less than three hours prior.... As if there are so many 50 year old women on little red scooters on the Delmar loop that just couldn't keep track... Even if I gave her a stern rap on the window. You should have seen the look on her face... It did not even register. The bad part is I know that face from somewhere. Hopefully it does not go with a job application I've filled out. It's not just that I am riding a scooter. I'm consciensious when I'm in my car and I put my cell phone on the air plane mode when I drive. But I live in an area that in a very small area has a University, a major park, lots of retail and restaurants, a hotel, and a concert venue... Besides those of us who live there. Lots of traffic and lots and lots of pedestrians. On any given corner, if you stand and observe through a few light cycles, you will quickly note that way over half of the drivers are talking on their cell phones. At some times of day it is closer to about 95% and they are completely oblivious. Like zombies. Really. Today I was riding on McCausand just crossing Manchester road. I was through the intersection... Not quite halfway down the block when a white sedan is coming right at me... Fully in my lane, going the wrong direction, looking right at me and not seeing. I was able to maneuver out quickly. In this case being on a scooter saved me because there was a car in the right hand lane. I could not have gotten out of the way in a car. I would have gotten nailed head on. I was honking... The person behind me was honking and she just preceded to use the wrong lane in the wrong direction and made her left hand turn. I hate to say it but the worst offenders are women about my own age. Men tend to be more aggressive but women are driving like zombies. Sorry, I'm on a real rant but it is just unreal. I don't just go out looking for something to bitch about but the state of our society really makes me wonder. Cluelessness combined with indifference is not a combination for success.

[skully93]

I tend to rant like a madman and foam at the mouth when I nearly get killed by someone who couldn't be bothered...

so I think what you're feeling is pretty normal. I have pretty much lost it at people for lesser offenses.

[k1dude]

Unbelievable Mutt. You have bigger cahones than me to grab her phone. Although knowing my luck I'd get arrested.

My wife was just commenting a few days ago about how she had forgotten how bad drivers in St. Louis were.

[Dooglas]

Sorry to hear about your injury. About your accident though - a van stopped at a light and then turned right from the right lane. You decided to pass him on the right (on the shoulder). He turned right and you hit him - or he hit you. His insurance is accepting responsibility. What am I missing? (that he didn't use his blinker? that wasn't the worst mistake made here )

[Joker219]

just reading this thread makes me glad i carry a bag of gravel on my buddy for people who are on their phones. a quick handfull of gravel to a window usually gets their attention if they start veering at me but i keep one big rock to break windows if the tiny pebbles dont work. plus rocks are everywhere so good luck trying to prove to a cop i threw gravel at your window.

[ericalm]

just reading this thread makes me glad i carry a bag of gravel on my buddy for people who are on their phones. a quick handfull of gravel to a window usually gets their attention if they start veering at me but i keep one big rock to break windows if the tiny pebbles dont work. plus rocks are everywhere so good luck trying to prove to a cop i threw gravel at your window.

"Good luck trying to prove to a cop I ran you off the road, totaled your scooter and sent you to the ER when you threw gravel at my window."

[JHScoot]

Moral to this story: If you ride you might get hit.

Also, riding skills and good judgement > rocks and pebbles imho.

And yes, please be safe everyone....

[pdxrita]

Sorry to hear about your injury. About your accident though - a van stopped at a light...

Psst - Dooglas - Mutt is not the original poster

I am sorry to hear about your two close encounters with the idiotic kind. But I have to say, once you're over the pain and anger, I hope you take a few moments to engage in some hearty laughter over throwing her cell phone in the squeegie water. That is just revenge of the sweetest kind and she absolutely deserved it. Let's just hope it gets her attention.

(As for the gravel thrower above - booo hissss... bad idea, man)

[Edwub]

pdxrita, Dooglas was talking about/to the original poster, not Mutt's later post. (first line in the thread is: "Last week I got sideswiped by an old guy in his van")

At least how I interpreted it. Forums can be confusing!

[Dooglas]

Dooglas was talking about/to the original poster, not Mutt's later post. (first line in the thread is: "Last week I got sideswiped by an old guy in his van") At least how I interpreted it. Forums can be confusing!

Yes, that's right. Not that Mutt's experience wasn't flat incredible .

[JHScoot]

Yup, internets are tricky business.

[pdxrita]

Dooglas was talking about/to the original poster, not Mutt's later post. (first line in the thread is: "Last week I got sideswiped by an old guy in his van") At least how I interpreted it. Forums can be confusing!

Yes, that's right. Not that Mutt's experience wasn't flat incredible .

Ah, okay. Got it. I assumed, since the thread had been resurrected by Mutt, that your response was for that. The original poster had already admitted they'd made a mistake. Doesn't really matter. I just didn't want Mutt to feel she was being scolded.

[JHScoot]

I will scold you all if you don't stop this lunacy forthright!

[peabody99]

wow, that i awful I am glad you are OK, so to speak. I have lived in other 4 other states and scootered in OH before here and seen a lot of bad driving styles. One thing I noticed in CA, is that other than the freeway(where they are evil), people seem pretty 2 wheel friendly and aware compared to where I last rode. BUT, and notice it is a big BUT, Californians are incapable of utilizing turn signals which makes it very dangerous for us. I know a lot of times cars don't see ME (because they don't even look), but if they use a turn signal I make darn sure I drop back or gun past them before they move. When they don't use them and just go, safety plummets.

[Jana]

OMG... I almost got creamed by the same driver twice today... Three hour apart!!!

I was on a little side street by Blueberry Hill going on to Delmar. I was behind. Huge whit SUV who was sitting waiting for the light. She started backing up. I have no idea why. She was stopped behind the line. I was not too close to her but she was not looking... I'm honking, she's ignoring. I was able to swerve around her to her passenger side and rapped on her window... She looked up from her cell phone conversation in a startled way. I said HEY... I was behind you, you almost backed over me. She gave me this "duh, I'm so sorry" shrug and I shook my head and rode off. A couple hours later I am coming back from my errands. I am first in line for the light to change. I am safely behind the stop line and I am not hugging the lane line... Just a little left of center. And WHO comes by... Making a left hand turn too closely and STILL TALKING ON THE CELL PHONE???? Ms Urban assault vehicle bleach blonde middle age bimbo. She cuts WAY to close and runs that honking big thing over my foot!!! I had boots on but yow. I had mostly gotten out of her way when I saw how close she was taking it. I followed her into the has station and said WTF... Do you recognize me? She was starting to put gas in her tank and she was STILL talking on the phone... She gave me this "wait a minute motio" and I grabbed her cell phone and dropped in the tub with the dirty soapy water and the squeegee and asked if she had a minute now. I said you almost hit me TWICE!!! TODAY.... In three hours. I hit a cat once and was shaken up for weeks. If I'd almost hit a person while I was yapping on my cell phone it would have been a major wake up call and I would not be doing that again. She wanted me to pay for her phone. I said call a cop. There are cameras on both intersections... Let's see what they have to say. She said nothing after that. I went home and I'm still mad. I am not the kind of person who wrecks other people's property. And for that matter I am pretty quiet, but TWICE and it did not even register. That was the part that made me loose it. For goodness sake, what is the chance?

I love scootering, but the drivers... Whoa. What's in the water lately?

Hey! I almost got creamed (in my car) by this same biotch at Kmart Wednesday! Honest! It had to be the same eejit, yammering on her phone the whole time she's in Kmart, yelling at her kids at the same time. She backed into a car in the lot (thankfully not mine), and almost hit a guy walking in the parking lot. The guy rapped on her window and started yelling at him for interrupting her on the phone.

I'm wondering now if she had meth cooking in her purse....oh wait, that was at the walmart.

[Jana]

Unbelievable Mutt. You have bigger cahones than me to grab her phone. Although knowing my luck I'd get arrested.

My wife was just commenting a few days ago about how she had forgotten how bad drivers in St. Louis were.

Ah, come on....we're not *all* bad!

[Jana]

I learned 30 years ago when I first started riding, to NEVER, EVER split the lane. It's just not worth it. I've seen too many motorcycles get smacked while doing this. I realize it's legal in some states, but it's still a very risky (and kinda stoopid, IMHO! ) thing to do.

I see it all the time, and I just want to pull them over and lecture them about road safety, etc.

I would encourage *everyone* to take (or retake) the safety course offered in your area. It's worth the money because it most likely will save your life.

Granted, a little common sense goes a long way towards this, but one can never be too careful on the road.

I'm getting off my soapbox now, because it's "Yarn Bombing Day," and I need to get my supplies sorted.

[ericalm]

I realize it's legal in some states

Just one!

[Skootz Kabootz]

I learned 30 years ago when I first started riding, to NEVER, EVER split the lane. It's just not worth it. I've seen too many motorcycles get smacked while doing this. I realize it's legal in some states, but it's still a very risky (and kinda stoopid, IMHO! ) thing to do.

I see it all the time, and I just want to pull them over and lecture them about road safety, etc.

I would encourage *everyone* to take (or retake) the safety course offered in your area. It's worth the money because it most likely will save your life.

Granted, a little common sense goes a long way towards this, but one can never be too careful on the road.

I'm getting off my soapbox now, because it's "Yarn Bombing Day," and I need to get my supplies sorted.

You should think about taking the MSF course in California. Lane splitting is taught as a safety practice. Sit at the back of a line of cars at a red light and you are vulnerable to being rear ended. Split to the front of that line of cars and you are protected by the cars behind you. An uneducated person can make any practice unsafe. A well trained and wise person the opposite.

[Mutt the Hoople]

I learned 30 years ago when I first started riding, to NEVER, EVER split the lane. It's just not worth it. I've seen too many motorcycles get smacked while doing this. I realize it's legal in some states, but it's still a very risky (and kinda stoopid, IMHO! ) thing to do.

I see it all the time, and I just want to pull them over and lecture them about road safety, etc.

I would encourage *everyone* to take (or retake) the safety course offered in your area. It's worth the money because it most likely will save your life.

Granted, a little common sense goes a long way towards this, but one can never be too careful on the road.

I'm getting off my soapbox now, because it's "Yarn Bombing Day," and I need to get my supplies sorted.

You should think about taking the MSF course in California. Lane splitting is taught as a safety practice. Sit at the back of a line of cars at a red light and you are vulnerable to being rear ended. Split to the front of that line of cars and you are protected by the cars behind you. An uneducated person can make any practice unsafe. A well trained and wise person the opposite.

It's no win. Just position yourself where you can see, where you can be seen, and where you can take evasive action if needed. I was back not a car length but a decent distance from that ridiculous creature who decided to back up... For no obvious reason, and withougt looking. I had enough room to get around her and she STILL didn't grasp what she had done. I still have my hackles up over that eeeeeediot. And a purple pinkie toe.

[ericalm]

I learned 30 years ago when I first started riding, to NEVER, EVER split the lane. It's just not worth it. I've seen too many motorcycles get smacked while doing this. I realize it's legal in some states, but it's still a very risky (and kinda stoopid, IMHO! ) thing to do.

I see it all the time, and I just want to pull them over and lecture them about road safety, etc.

I would encourage *everyone* to take (or retake) the safety course offered in your area. It's worth the money because it most likely will save your life.

Granted, a little common sense goes a long way towards this, but one can never be too careful on the road.

I'm getting off my soapbox now, because it's "Yarn Bombing Day," and I need to get my supplies sorted.

You should think about taking the MSF course in California. Lane splitting is taught as a safety practice. Sit at the back of a line of cars at a red light and you are vulnerable to being rear ended. Split to the front of that line of cars and you are protected by the cars behind you. An uneducated person can make any practice unsafe. A well trained and wise person the opposite.

They don't teach you how to lane split. It was barely mentioned in the class I took.

I think we know by now that lane splitting seems perfectly natural for those of us in CA—even the more cautious riders—and that most of those in other states think it's reckless and a bit scary.

[k1dude]

You can make it as scary and unsafe as you want. Most riders don't. We do it safely and cautiously. As much as you can anyway. There's always the outside chance someone might make a sudden move or open a door.

Personally I think lane splitting is safer than riding a road bike on the street. And I do both on a regular basis.

[Skootz Kabootz]

I learned 30 years ago when I first started riding, to NEVER, EVER split the lane. It's just not worth it. I've seen too many motorcycles get smacked while doing this. I realize it's legal in some states, but it's still a very risky (and kinda stoopid, IMHO! ) thing to do.

I see it all the time, and I just want to pull them over and lecture them about road safety, etc.

I would encourage *everyone* to take (or retake) the safety course offered in your area. It's worth the money because it most likely will save your life.

Granted, a little common sense goes a long way towards this, but one can never be too careful on the road.

I'm getting off my soapbox now, because it's "Yarn Bombing Day," and I need to get my supplies sorted.

You should think about taking the MSF course in California. Lane splitting is taught as a safety practice. Sit at the back of a line of cars at a red light and you are vulnerable to being rear ended. Split to the front of that line of cars and you are protected by the cars behind you. An uneducated person can make any practice unsafe. A well trained and wise person the opposite.

They don't teach you how to lane split. It was barely mentioned in the class I took.

I think we know by now that lane splitting seems perfectly natural for those of us in CA—even the more cautious riders—and that most of those in other states think it's reckless and a bit scary.

Bummer. We had great MSF teachers who discussed both the benefits and risks associated with the practice at some length. It was also interesting to learn that according to a poll of CHP officers there are more annual motorcycle injuries from rear end collisions than there are from lane splitting mishaps. So really, when you get down to it, here in CA (as well as many countries around the world), one is simply free to choose their preferred risk. Personally I go with the statistically safer choice.

For those interested in learning more about lane splitting and best practices, there are several excellent pages devoted to the subject in Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough. A great read.