Modern Buddy

So I spent the first two weeks this month all over the state of Colorado. Sigh, I just love it there so so much.

Anyways.. while in Denver and Boulder I saw a TON of scooters and a TON of bicycles.

99% of the people on scooters were NOT wearing helmets.
99% of the people on bicycles WERE wearing helmets.

How does this even make sense?!!?

I live in NY.. so it was really weird to see all the people riding motorcycles and scooters with bare heads.

I can't wait to move back to Denver.. T-minus 1 year and 10 months!

We'll be here when you get back!

We have no helmet law in CO, so there is that, but we also have a mix of people who can't drive.

Tonight is our 2nd rally of the year, and a very big one. I expect to cringe a lot. I just wanna see helmets, but I know it's not as 'cute' or 'cool' for some.

I also dislike bees in my face....

if you visit our 'hood you will find bicyclists aplenty with no helmet. They are also sans any reflectors or gear, and drunk riding in the dark at 3am. I have nearly killed many a drunk bicyclist that I couldn't see 10' ahead of me.

AlleyOops wrote:99% of the people on scooters were NOT wearing helmets.
99% of the people on bicycles WERE wearing helmets.

How does this even make sense?!!?

Bicyclists perceive themselves as vulnerable.
Scooterists perceived themselves as empowered.

I'm not saying it's rational, but I think it's the rationale.

Given the ludicrous things I tend to do on either of my scoots, and the many stupid things I have done to myself in life that resulted in lingering pain and scars, I chose helmet .

I have, a couple of times, run around with my jacket in the pet carrier, in 100+ degree heat.

I would LOVE a nice long drive with just the helmet/gloves (maybe a banana hammock!) at @ 11pm, when the temps calm down.

I live in Boulder and the only bicyclists that wear helmets (riding around town) are pro cyclists and freshmen CU students.

Part of the reason is that Boulder is very bicycle friendly and most of the people that drive around here are aware of pedestrians and cyclists.

Boulder != Denver

I've been riding for over 30 years and have always worn a helmet.

For safety first, comfort second. Yeah, that's right, I said comfort. Wind comes with sand, grit, bugs, rain drops, and other debris that does not feel good at speeds above 30 mph.

And those people we see riding down the highway on a unmentioned brand of cruiser motorcycle at 70 mph with only sunglasses???? Please! Give me a break! It doesn't look tough to me, it looks stupid and very uncomfortable, not to mention the hearing loss they must suffer from.

For the life of me I can't figure out how being unsafe, uncomfortable, deaf and potentially blinded by debris and crap is a "life style choice" or a statement on being "manly". It's friggin' stupid and shows both a lack of judgment and intelligence.

And yes, if you ride a 50cc scooter you still need a helmet!

Sorry, I've been needing to get that off my chest for a while...

velobuff wrote:I live in Boulder and the only bicyclists that wear helmets (riding around town) are pro cyclists and freshmen CU students.

Part of the reason is that Boulder is very bicycle friendly and most of the people that drive around here are aware of pedestrians and cyclists.

Boulder != Denver

Too bad it's not reciprocal. Pedestrians and bicyclists were very aggressive in ignoring motorized vehicles when I lived in Boulder Cty. But that was a couple decades ago - maybe it has changed.

AlleyOops wrote: Anyways.. while in Denver and Boulder I saw a TON of scooters and a TON of bicycles.

99% of the people on scooters were NOT wearing helmets.
99% of the people on bicycles WERE wearing helmets.

How does this even make sense?!!?

Weird, most scooterists I see are wearing helmets. Maybe cuz I live in the burbs and the helmet-less tend to be more downtown. I can almost understand that, I guess. If you're scooting around at 25-35 mph, just making short trips, you might think that it's safe without the helmet. I don't agree, but I can see where some would think that. No need to start the replies with "most accidents happen within 5 miles of your house" etc. I know all that. My MC accident that put me in surgery and ICU was pretty low-speed.

AlleyOops wrote: 99% of the people on scooters were NOT wearing helmets.
99% of the people on bicycles WERE wearing helmets.

How does this even make sense?!!?

Yep - I ride both and this spring we rode the OK FreeWheel (580 miles in a week on bicycles) and started leaving my helmet unclipped until I woke up... later lie mid morning or until we hit some pretty fast downhill. I hate the strap under my chin day after day. Now I have started doing it back home… and I kind of like the rebellious part. It is kind of like “I have on my helmet so shut up”. I don’t see myself ever riding a MTB without it on.

That said - when we first got our scooters, I did not have a helmet so I never wore one until the wife started telling everyone and insisting I get one. I still run out the door if it is just local and ride without a helmet on the scoot. It is so freeing and refreshing. You know, the wind in your hair, unsafe, wrong or not. The kids are grown and I am not going to last forever...

I think that people that don't wear helmets are stupid. I say that without shame after working in a hospital and seeing many low speed accidents where people have had massive brain injuries or died only because of not wearing a simple helmet. Will they prevent all head injuries, no, but it's worth it to wear one than to not.

mhardgrove wrote:I think that people that don't wear helmets are stupid.

Please see the Posting Guidelines regarding judgmental statements about others' use of gear.

mhardgrove wrote:I say that without shame after working in a hospital and seeing many low speed accidents where people have had massive brain injuries or died only because of not wearing a simple helmet. Will they prevent all head injuries, no, but it's worth it to wear one than to not.

This part is valuable, though, and within the Guidelines.

Basically, don't call people stupid. Folks have many reasons for opting not to wear helmets and though many of us don't agree with them and feel the risks outweigh any rationale, we don't went to get into it here because it inevitably results in a flame war. Name calling and getting judgmental doesn't benefit any of us.

There are many people who feel the same way about anyone who rides on two wheels. I'm sure if you work in a hospital, you've heard the term "organ donor." Their reasoning is just as sound as yours: Riders subject themselves to much higher risks of injury and death for the fun of riding and recreation.

ericalm wrote: There are many people who feel the same way about anyone who rides on two wheels. I'm sure if you work in a hospital, you've heard the term "organ donor." Their reasoning is just as sound as yours: Riders subject themselves to much higher risks of injury and death for the fun of riding and recreation.

It's actually "donor-cycle".

MYSCTR wrote:Yep - I ride both and this spring we rode the OK FreeWheel (580 miles in a week on bicycles) and started leaving my helmet unclipped until I woke up...

Wearing a helmet without the chin strap clipped has always struck me as the worst of having it both ways: you still have the nuisance and a little discomfort of wearing the helmet, but you don't have the actual protection of it. It's especially true of the 13-year-olds I see riding their bicycles that way (where it will do No Good At All if they are in an accident), but also true for scooterists and motorcyclists.

Um k, let me rephrase my statement. People that choose to be organ donors by actively choosing to not wear a helmet are extremly "ignorant". Better? I don't want anyone to butthurt that I called them "stupid" on an Internet forum. But all political correctness aside, a helmet will do you far more good than not having one, that's my only point I'm trying to make. Sorry I called non helmet wearers "stupid"...

mhardgrove wrote:Um k, let me rephrase my statement. People that choose to be organ donors by actively choosing to not wear a helmet are extremly "ignorant". Better? I don't want anyone to butthurt that I called them "stupid" on an Internet forum. But all political correctness aside, a helmet will do you far more good than not having one, that's my only point I'm trying to make. Sorry I called non helmet wearers "stupid"...

I think the issue is that wearing gear (or not) is a personal choice. You choose to wear a helmet. That's fine. If someone doesn't wear a helmet, that's his (or her) choice. It is not your choice to make for him/her. It's really as simple as that.

The personal attack just adds to the problem.

It isn't the specific insult chosen, but the fact that it's an insult.

Syd wrote:I think the issue is that wearing gear (or not) is a personal choice. You choose to wear a helmet. That's fine. If someone doesn't wear a helmet, that's his (or her) choice. It is not your choice to make for him/her. It's really as simple as that.

The personal attack just adds to the problem.

I believe that will rapidly change.

Under Obamacare, behaviors like that will soon cost all taxpayers more money. It's fine when you excercise your freedoms and it affects no one but yourself. It's an entirely different matter when you excercise your freedoms at the expense of others pocketbooks. You can bet those freedoms will soon disappear as a result.

k1dude wrote:

Syd wrote:I think the issue is that wearing gear (or not) is a personal choice. You choose to wear a helmet. That's fine. If someone doesn't wear a helmet, that's his (or her) choice. It is not your choice to make for him/her. It's really as simple as that.

The personal attack just adds to the problem.

I believe that will rapidly change.

Under Obamacare, behaviors like that will soon cost all taxpayers more money. It's fine when you excercise your freedoms and it affects no one but yourself. It's an entirely different matter when you excercise your freedoms at the expense of others pocketbooks. You can bet those freedoms will soon disappear as a result.

If you are going to bring politics into something that didn't involve it in the first place, please try to at LEAST get your facts right. Taxpayers won't be paying for medical bills... there is no socialized healthcare in this country, it's still for-profit.

Great way of bringing political crap into a thread that didn't have to go that way. Now, if we can get back to the topic of helmet laws...

k1dude wrote:Under Obamacare, behaviors like that will soon cost all taxpayers more money. It's fine when you excercise your freedoms and it affects no one but yourself. It's an entirely different matter when you excercise your freedoms at the expense of others pocketbooks. You can bet those freedoms will soon disappear as a result.

A little info about the current system: Those who suffer catastrophic injuries and can't pay for their care (i.e. not insured or wealthy) are typically paid for either by state programs for the poor (e.g. Medicaid) or by hospital "benevolence" funds which are generally funded by fees charged to those who can pay. (It was for this reason that the recent change in Michigan law which eliminated the requirement for motorcyclists to wear helmets* was accompanied by a requirement that they purchase additional insurance if they go without, so that the general public would not have to pay for the expected costs of the additional injuries.) In short, what you describe is how it currently works. One of the goals of the Affordable Care Act* was to make the problem you describe less common.

*agree with it or not... we're not going to debate that here

neotrotsky wrote:If you are going to bring politics into something that didn't involve it in the first place, please try to at LEAST get your facts right. Taxpayers won't be paying for medical bills... there is no socialized healthcare in this country, it's still for-profit.

Great way of bringing political crap into a thread that didn't have to go that way. Now, if we can get back to the topic of helmet laws...

Hmm. Interesting response. How do you even know which side of the fence I sit on? I left no clue in my post. Your conclusions are unfounded.

As far as my info is concerned, it was a flyer I saw at a conference put out by the American Medical Association. It was about how Obamacare will provide for the average citizen. It had a small bullet point about "risky" behaviors (like smoking and bungee jumping). I would suspect riding without a helmet would fall under "risky" behavior.

k1dude wrote:

neotrotsky wrote:If you are going to bring politics into something that didn't involve it in the first place, please try to at LEAST get your facts right. Taxpayers won't be paying for medical bills... there is no socialized healthcare in this country, it's still for-profit.

Great way of bringing political crap into a thread that didn't have to go that way. Now, if we can get back to the topic of helmet laws...

Hmm. Interesting response. How do you even know which side of the fence I sit on? I left no clue in my post. Your conclusions are unfounded.

As far as my info is concerned, it was a flyer I saw at a conference put out by the American Medical Association. It was about how Obamacare will provide for the average citizen. It had a small bullet point about "risky" behaviors (like smoking and bungee jumping). I would suspect riding without a helmet would fall under "risky" behavior.

I am asking to keep the politics out. NOT looking to bring it into a scooter forum of all places. By calling it "Obamacare" and citing your willingness to accept info from a flyer as fact show you're just looking for a political debate where there frankly doesn't need to be in a scooter forum. Trying to keep it civil.

neotrotsky wrote:I am asking to keep the politics out. NOT looking to bring it into a scooter forum of all places. By calling it "Obamacare" and citing your willingness to accept info from a flyer as fact show you're just looking for a political debate where there frankly doesn't need to be in a scooter forum. Trying to keep it civil.

FYI, the term Obamacare is used by both sides of the aisle. And the AMA endorses Obamacare. So much for your conspiracy theory. And if you think you know more about Obamacare than the AMA, I beg to differ. I believe they are authorities on the matter compared to someone on a scooter forum. In no way shape or form did I bring politics into the conversation, you did.

I simply made an observation that the days of riding without a helmet are likely numbered and I explained why. That was the topic and I stuck to it. You deviated, not I.

mhardgrove wrote:Um k, let me rephrase my statement. People that choose to be organ donors by actively choosing to not wear a helmet are extremly "ignorant". Better? I don't want anyone to butthurt that I called them "stupid" on an Internet forum. But all political correctness aside, a helmet will do you far more good than not having one, that's my only point I'm trying to make. Sorry I called non helmet wearers "stupid"...

It's not about political correctness, it's about (as Eric referenced above) the posting guidelines of this forum.

As for the political debate that this is turning into, I think that's a good indication that this thread has run its course.

Here's my observation about Colorado: It's a beautiful place to ride a scooter.