Modern Buddy

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:08 pm**

So trying to decide on which buddy i want, so i figured i'd put down all the questions running through my head and see what you guys think.

So basically i'd be living in a down town area and using it primarily to scoot to/from work and wherever else. i'm keeping my car for bad weather days and winter though, as we do get a ton of rain here in Seattle.

I will however need to (if possible) take it on the freeway for a short few miles of my commute. The speed limit is 60mph, though honestly rush hour is bumper to bumper, but still, somedays it'll be clear sailing.

i should also note i weigh 280lbs. ro hitting top speed on the scooter might not be realistic lol.

There are also some steep city hills here; think like san fran type.

So basically i'm trying to decide between the 150 international (or psycho) or 170i.

I also probably will wind up wanting to heavily mod it for more power and top end too. i noticed there seems to be WAY more performance parts for the 150. are any interchangeable with the 170i? (susspention and brakes, big bore kits, cams, stroke cranks, etc)

also, i'm trying to steer away from the Blur as i'm not a fan of the modern look. but i also don't want to kill myself on the freeway lol.

What do you guys think?

i should also add i don't have much scootering/motorcycle experiance, but i did spend the weekend riding the crap out of my friends 150cc MotoBravo in Seaside OR, and had it up to 65 indicated (probably closer to 50+ real) and felt fairly comfortable and cabable, though any faster and i'd be a bit scared lol. (i've ridden quads and atv's my whole life and am into sports cars so speed isn't a huge deal but on a scooter omg lol)

thanks.

-Jer

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:31 pm**

haimerejd wrote: probably will wind up wanting to heavily mod it for more power and top end

Save yourself a lot of grief and initially purchase a scooter that is ACTUALLY suitable for your performance expectations. For freeway travel 16" wheel geometry is far superior to 10".

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:53 pm**

A SYM or Beverly would be better for freeway use cos of the wheel base. If you have your heart set on a Buddy the 170I the way to go.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:30 pm**

i hear ya. i just really have fallen in love with the retro look lol.
what about the Vespa 300? it has 12" wheels i think...

i may not even need to go on the freeway depending on if i can move closer to work, which i want to do... just seeing what my options are.

Are there any performance mods for the 170i? i haven't seen many, unless 150 parts work on it....

*edit* i should also add i'm a gearhead so i actually enjoy modding and engine work!

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:35 pm**

That's a good one too. The Vespa 300 would be an excelent choice as you would really get the best of freeway and urban riding....IF you can afford it cos they ain't cheep but great scoots. As far as mods I don't think there are any specificly for the 170I yet. Although I could be wrong. I like to keep em stock cos I don't know how to wrench on them...

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:43 pm**

tell me about it!

it seems a lot of the price is just the name too?
you can't even fit a helmet under the seat!

back to the 170i, i like the idea of it, as long as i can still have fun modding it....i wonder if its just the same engine with a bigger bore and fuel injection? maybe someone who's into modding can weigh in on part upgrade potential?

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:48 pm**

haimerejd wrote:tell me about it!

it seems a lot of the price is just the name too?
you can't even fit a helmet under the seat!

So, let me help you avoid a trap that many scooterists fall into.

This is a luxury vehicle. It is not an economy-class vehicle. Before you start telling me about 80 mpg and whatnot, I mean, "In our system, our economy, it's a luxury vehicle" ... that means you pay a premium for it, and you also get hosed on parts, upgrades and labor rates. Especially mechanic labor rates. Not only is it a luxury/recreational vehicle, most metropolitan areas have only one Genunine dealer. Corner on the market, jack up the prices! Scooters are not cheap things to purchase, customize or maintain. Not in any way. Total cost of my moderately customized 125 is approaching $4500. And I did all the labor myself, except mounting new tires (I don't have the spoon machine). Just mounting two tires on my scoot, I was dinged for $300. looooooool ... sigh!

back to the 170i, i like the idea of it, as long as i can still have fun modding it....i wonder if its just the same engine with a bigger bore and fuel injection? maybe someone who's into modding can weigh in on part upgrade potential?

Yep, that's the gist of it. This negates some of the mods available for the head/carb, of course. You can still fiddle with the wheels, tires, exhaust, seat, mirrors, paint, footpegs, shocks/fork, brake/disk, and more.

The first thing I'd do is put a better fork on the 170i. It's a very light/weak fork, even on the 125 models.

Have you considered a blur? It's a bigger frame and has more power. It looks bad ass and would probably fit a man of your stature. It performs well and I think you would like city-riding on that.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:04 pm**

In our system, our economy, it's a luxury vehicle

Good point. yeah i figured though. i'm keeping my car, which is paid off so no car payment. but with the Vespa being 50% more $$ than the Buddy, just trying to weigh my options. Great input though, thank you.

Have you considered a blur? It's a bigger frame and has more power. It looks bad ass and would probably fit a man of your stature

yeah i have, but i just don't like the look of scooters that resemble motorcycles too much, though i'm sure its great. i think i have some sort of romantic image of some italian scooter lifestyle, zippingaround back european roads lol. And as far as it fitting me, i should add that though i'm 280lbs, i'm only 5'7" lol....think Gimli from Lord of the Rings meets Chris Farley LOL.

The first thing I'd do is put a better fork on the 170i. It's a very light/weak fork, even on the 125 models.

so are there any mods that either increase the wheel size or wheelbase of a 170i or 150 international that you've seen?

*edit* oh and btw, love Deadmou5

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:52 pm**

Speaking as someone who had a GTS250 right when they came out, Out-the-door price on that Vespa GTS will be well over DOUBLE what the Buddy will be. And, if you get a modern Vespa enjoy waiting anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months for parts. My GTS250ie sticker price was $5900 and with tax, title and "fees" I was looking just shy of $7500

A scooter *is* an economy machine, but when you talk aobut economy you're talking about bikes like Genuine, Honda, Kymco and Yamaha. Every other brand is difficult at best to find parts and service for, and aren't as durable to the task.

If you are looking for a legit freeway cruiser scooter, check out Kymco. They have some awesome bikes and when it comes to dealerships, their numbers are growing faster than Honda or Yamaha (in fact, I'm pretty sure there are more Kymco dealers than Yamaha dealers in some states!). And, they are a worldwide leader in bike production in general and have a bulletproof design with many bikes that can do freeway speeds and more. Are they as cheap as a Buddy? Not all of them (some are actually FAR cheaper), but you do get what you pay for and more with them. Their retro offerings aren't as strong as Genuine, but they have quite the selection and when it comes to parts, warranty and service, you will be light years ahead of Vespa!

I personally have given up on Vespa in the modern sense. The company is a luxury-only marque and they make no bones about it. They actively spurn the US market (they didn't even send ANY reps to this year's Amerivespa!)

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:18 pm**

I haven't ridden a 170i, so I can't speak for it's freeway abilities, but I have seen newer 250cc Vespa's (as well as a Stella once that I believe may have been heavily modified) cruising at 65. With such a small wheel I don't know if I would be comfortable attempting to go much faster than 50-55 on any of these vehicles with tiny wheels.

If you're looking for something that will lug 280lbs around (I was 280+ on a 125 a few years ago, not a super fun riding experience really) why not get a cheap old motorcycle? I have dicked around on a old Honda CB350 before and loved it. Its NOT a crotch rocket, it can go 70mph easily, its not super heavy, they are really old though so may not be the most reliable things, but parts for these things are EVERYWHERE for cheap! As a bonus, these things do look good when someone makes a Cafe Racer out of them.

Back to the Buddy, it was NOT designed for freeway speeds (even though many have modified theirs to go hella fast). As for modifications, they can be done, BUT your stressing out components that were never intended of engineered to take high speeds or strains modification puts on them. Lets just take a look at the braking system for example... It's fine if you keep the thing stock, but would you trust that tiny rotor and DRUM brake to QUICKLY stop you say you were going 65-70? I wouldn't, and it's an example of it not being engineered for going really fast. I'm sure someone will tell me I am wrong, but I would NEVER trust it day in and day out without major modifications (bigger pads and rotor and some way to modify the drum to disk in the rear). Not to shoot your plans for having a scooter you can take on the freeway, but I wouldn't suggest the Buddy unless the 170i is completely redesigned from my 125. Look at the new 250 and up Vespa if you want a cruiser.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:20 pm**

I dont know if the look is your thing but take a look at the Honda PCX 150. I spent the weekend riding with one and it was faster off the line every time than my old Big Ruckus which is a 250.

The PCX just became a 150 this year, A local rider with the 125 takes his pretty much everywhere but the Interstate and hasn't had a problem with it.

It's got big wheels and plenty of storage under the seat. And it's a Honda so you have to be pretty stupid or unlucky for it to break

If you want easy to Mod go for the Buddy 150 with it's Carburated GY6 and there are plenty of performance parts out for it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:15 am**

Having lived in Seattle and being aware of the traffic issues there (if you are going anywhere, you almost have to get on one of the highways), I would say the 125/150/170 would be fine for getting around town. However, it all depends on your needs too; you may feel a little better on a 250cc or 300cc scooter just for the extra burst of speed. I know a lot of folks worry about the 10" tires but I ride on highways all the time and they don't bother me.

Whatever you choose, make sure it fits your long-term plans. As mentioned there are a lot of good scoots out there; all with their own positives and negatives. "As for me, I ride a Buddy!"

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:23 am**

mhardgrove wrote:I haven't ridden a 170i, so I can't speak for it's freeway abilities, but I have seen newer 250cc Vespa's (as well as a Stella once that I believe may have been heavily modified) cruising at 65. With such a small wheel I don't know if I would be comfortable attempting to go much faster than 50-55 on any of these vehicles with tiny wheels.

If you're looking for something that will lug 280lbs around (I was 280+ on a 125 a few years ago, not a super fun riding experience really) why not get a cheap old motorcycle? I have dicked around on a old Honda CB350 before and loved it. Its NOT a crotch rocket, it can go 70mph easily, its not super heavy, they are really old though so may not be the most reliable things, but parts for these things are EVERYWHERE for cheap! As a bonus, these things do look good when someone makes a Cafe Racer out of them.

I got a 2009 Vespa GTV 250ie with less than 500 miles on it. It has 12" wheels but they are wide. Not as nimble at really slow speeds as the Buddy but I've been taking it out on the highways (not interstates) and 55-60mph is no problem. Neither is 65-70mph. It handles well in the wind too. You might be able to find GTV or GTS 250s with low mileage at decent prices. Tried the Kymco People 150 and 250, SYM HD 200 (still love the SYM Wolf classic 150 BTW), Honda SH150i... And the Aprillia Scarabeo. All nice, but all a bit too tall for me. But I love the Vespa. That said I wish they made a Buddy 250 or 300 with 12" wider wheels. I'd be all over that. NOTHING else is as fun as the Buddy.

Back to the Buddy, it was NOT designed for freeway speeds (even though many have modified theirs to go hella fast). As for modifications, they can be done, BUT your stressing out components that were never intended of engineered to take high speeds or strains modification puts on them. Lets just take a look at the braking system for example... It's fine if you keep the thing stock, but would you trust that tiny rotor and DRUM brake to QUICKLY stop you say you were going 65-70? I wouldn't, and it's an example of it not being engineered for going really fast. I'm sure someone will tell me I am wrong, but I would NEVER trust it day in and day out without major modifications (bigger pads and rotor and some way to modify the drum to disk in the rear). Not to shoot your plans for having a scooter you can take on the freeway, but I wouldn't suggest the Buddy unless the 170i is completely redesigned from my 125. Look at the new 250 and up Vespa if you want a cruiser.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:24 am**

Whoops. Somehow the quote got messed up. Sorry.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:33 am**

Why no mention of the Blur? Bigger, stronger, faster....by Genuine.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:40 am**

Edwub wrote:Why no mention of the Blur? Bigger, stronger, faster....by Genuine.

In his first post:

haimerejd wrote:also, i'm trying to steer away from the Blur as i'm not a fan of the modern look. but i also don't want to kill myself on the freeway lol.

Thus no Blurs

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:03 am**

haimerejd wrote:So trying to decide on which buddy i want, so i figured i'd put down all the questions running through my head and see what you guys think.

So basically i'd be living in a down town area and using it primarily to scoot to/from work and wherever else. i'm keeping my car for bad weather days and winter though, as we do get a ton of rain here in Seattle.

I will however need to (if possible) take it on the freeway for a short few miles of my commute. The speed limit is 60mph, though honestly rush hour is bumper to bumper, but still, somedays it'll be clear sailing.

Given only what you've said in the original post, it seems clear to me you have to decide which you need, more: Reliable daily transportation, or the ability to use the interstate. Given your weight, no bike under 250cc is going to "safely" carry you on the interstate, period. Even that is a stretch, honestly. At 205lbs., my Kymco People 250 was barely up to the task of keeping up with normal traffic, let alone insane traffic. Please look for something with more displacement than 170cc if you really intend to use the interstate, regardless of the legality in your state.
.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:56 pm**

haimerejd wrote:i hear ya. i just really have fallen in love with the retro look. what about the Vespa 300? it has 12" wheels i think...

Most folks on this site have little experience with the Vespa GTS and tend not to recommend it. My experience with the GTS has been very positive. In my opinion, it is an excellent ride with a great retro look and finish. Is it more expensive than something like a Sym 200 or a Kymco 250? Yes, but design and build are excellent. The 12" wheels and heavier suspension make it the best of the traditional scooters for alround use IMO. As far as parts or dealers, there are more Vespa dealers than most other scooter brands. The dealer network is uneven (good shops and not so good) - but you can say that about any scooter dealer system. I have had no special problems with parts availability and accessory availablility is the best of any scooter brand (my most frustrating parts supply problem was with the Buddy, for what it's worth). That gets us back to cost. Yes, the GTS is expensive, but there are some choices. Used bikes are always an option, but new old stock GTS 250s are still available as well. Performance is very similar to the 300 and price can be as much as $2000 less. Something to think about if the big Vespa really calls to you.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:57 pm**

Dooglas wrote:
haimerejd wrote:i hear ya. i just really have fallen in love with the retro look. what about the Vespa 300? it has 12" wheels i think...
Most folks on this site have little experience with the Vespa GTS and tend not to recommend it. My experience with the GTS has been very positive. In my opinion, it is an excellent ride with a great retro look and finish. Is it more expensive than something like a Sym 200 or a Kymco 250? Yes, but design and build are excellent. The 12" wheels and heavier suspension make it the best of the traditional scooters for alround use IMO.

There are a lot of GTS owners and fans on MB! I do like the GTS, though it's at its best at high speeds, where the performance differences between in and smaller scooters are apparent. Smaller and lighter than many maxiscooters, the GTS handles well overall and the ride is very smooth. Almost too smooth for my tastes! It's not as fun to ride as a Buddy or even an LX.

Dooglas wrote:As far as parts or dealers, there are more Vespa dealers than most other scooter brands.

This may not be true any more. The scooter shop closings heavily affected Vespa (more than some others) and their network is much smaller than it was a few years ago. The Vespa boutique is pretty much a dead concept with the exception of some of the largest markets. What you're seeing now is more multi-line shops carrying Vespa. And many of them don't sell many Vespas—they're bait to being in customers for more reasonably-priced alternatives.

Dooglas wrote:I have had no special problems with parts availability and accessory availablility is the best of any scooter brand (my most frustrating parts supply problem was with the Buddy, for what it's worth).

Kind of depends on what kind of part you need and when you need it. Need a part from Italy in August? Wait until October. Some Vespa parts are readily available and others can take several months if they show up at all. The Piaggio/Vespa parts supply isn't the worst in the industry, but it's not the best either. Overall, IMHO, no better than Genuine's at this point.

The caveat is that parts is an issue for all scooter makes. FWIW, a few dealers have told me that the best is Kymco.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:14 am**

i just want to reiterate what another poster said and say i too think scoots are economical machines if kept stock and reasonably maintained. if you ride a lot i think it can pay to have two or three scooters if not a DIY'er or even if so. it can still be cheap. get one new scooter and two used or three used, etc....and spread out usage and maintenance cost. this should keep a rider on the road if one breaks and cut your regular dealer visits and expenses by threefold over time

so far as op's needs....well....sounds like you want a SCOOTER scooter. in look and style. and highway capable. so, how about this. 500cc and it LOOKS like a scooter. IF you have an Aprillia dealer nearby. its said these bikes are DIY friendly, too. and very good deals on them are common from what i have read

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:26 am**

JHScoot wrote:so far as op's needs....well....sounds like you want a SCOOTER scooter. in look and style. and highway capable. so, how about this. 500cc and it LOOKS like a scooter. IF you have an Aprillia dealer nearby. its said these bikes are DIY friendly, too. and very good deals on them are common from what i have read

I really like the Scarabeo 500ie. MSRP is only $400 more than a GTS 300 but you can probably get one for the same price or less these days. I've actually thought that if I'm ever in the market for a freeway rider, I might go this route rather than a GTS. Honestly, the GTS 250 is freeway-capable but still isn't THAT stable or even THAT powerful at over 70mph. Stability on the 300 will be about same; power, I don't know. (Honestly, at that size and price point, I'm buying a motorcycle…)

DIY friendly, though? Not any more than any other automatic scooter out there and there aren't as many performance and accessory options as there are for many others.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:13 am**

yeah i like the idea of a 'beo 500 for around SoCal, too. i think it would make a perfect freeway commuter. 'gotta love it for its scooter looks. i mean, thats why i do. i am sure otherwise it is as capable as any other

a mc for me, however? still have to get past the shifting. i may or may not. i think a big scooter would be best for me, or an automatic mc. which are few and far between. but that new Honda is nice. however, i do like scooters and that big Aprilia screams scooter quite loudly. and depending on my commute the small engine, small wheeled scoots would still get the call when at all possible. so unless big things change about the places i need and like to go the BIG scooter would be somewhat limited duty. so i would not want to spend too much, either. we'll se how it pans out. for now i am fine, but feel i need a nicer scooter sometimes. and of course freeway capable.

"DIY" friendly? i got that from several forums i have read where people discuss their ownership experience. this guy says he's a wrencher and i've read this scooter is easy to get to and get at for basic stuff, and not a lot of plastics involved. thats what i have read from several owners, at least. so i thought i might pass it on in case it matters

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:41 am**

The 170i is great. You can use 150 mods for most of the scooter. If you look at the parts on scooterworks or scooterwest it will show you if it work with the 170i.

I just order some new forks myself, so that is definitely an option. From what I can remember there's been confusion about the big bore kits and the 170i on this board. The exhaust, brakes, and suspension can definitely be upgraded.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:33 pm**

I have a GTS. LOVE it. That said, I have no intention of riding freeway. Surface state highways, potentially. Probably, actually, as that was the entire point of my buying a GTS250. I want to have the option to hold 55-60mph with stability and safety. And so far as my skills and confidence improve, I've been able to do so. I touched 65mph indicated last weekend. I've been riding less than a year at this point, and have only had the GTS since March, so I think as time goes on 55-60-mph will not be an issue.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:04 pm**

Love my GTV 250. Haven't gone in the Interstates around here... With all the construction they are even trying in a car. I have been going on highways that have posted speed limits of 55-60 and the GTV is very smooth and quick. Not as fun as the Buddy for in-town jaunts but I sure love it for riding and exploring. Sad to say I haven't been riding my Buddy as much. Not the Buddy's fault... It's the ass-hole drivers on certain roads that run over you with impunity even though you're doing 31-32 in a 30 mph zone.... But they want to do 50mph because I guess they just feel special and entitled. It can't be because they are trying to get there fast because we end up sized by side at the same lights. For whatever reason I don't get as much of that on my Vespa. Maybe because it's creme colored and bigger so it's easier to see. But I don't get as many jerks trying to run over me on the GTV.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:41 pm**

SYM HD200 EVO, or Kymco People GT 200i/300i if you want new.

Honda Elite 250, older Vespa GTS 250 not a 200, Kymco People 250 if you want used.

All are solid machines, will get you on the highway, and are retroish.

If you want a machine to hop up, the buddy 125 is a solid choice, specially if you go for the psycho it already has good shocks and forks, plus the big brake for only $200 more. get a stage 2 kit from scooterworks - $430, dr pulley variator $99 - buggypartsnw, and a new cdi and coil $30 on ebay.

-duo

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:14 pm**

JHScoot wrote:yeah i like the idea of a 'beo 500 for around SoCal, too. i think it would make a perfect freeway commuter. 'gotta love it for its scooter looks. i mean, thats why i do. i am sure otherwise it is as capable as any other

a mc for me, however? still have to get past the shifting. i may or may not. i think a big scooter would be best for me, or an automatic mc. which are few and far between. but that new Honda is nice. however, i do like scooters and that big Aprilia screams scooter quite loudly. and depending on my commute the small engine, small wheeled scoots would still get the call when at all possible. so unless big things change about the places i need and like to go the BIG scooter would be somewhat limited duty. so i would not want to spend too much, either. we'll se how it pans out. for now i am fine, but feel i need a nicer scooter sometimes. and of course freeway capable.

"DIY" friendly? i got that from several forums i have read where people discuss their ownership experience. this guy says he's a wrencher and i've read this scooter is easy to get to and get at for basic stuff, and not a lot of plastics involved. thats what i have read from several owners, at least. so i thought i might pass it on in case it matters

You can't work on it if you can't get parts for it, and I've heard that Aprilia parts are harder to find than the correct pronunciation of Aprilia.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:38 pm**

Syd wrote:You can't work on it if you can't get parts for it, and I've heard that Aprilia parts are harder to find than the correct pronunciation of Aprilia.

That used to be the case, but now it's about the same as all Piaggios.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:11 pm**

the BV350 is also a good option there. hits well over highway speeds, and the specs/maint intervals on it are reputed to be very strong.

Only 2 local riders have them, and they're quick, good looking machines. Only time will tell if they are as solid as advertised, but the older models are much loved.

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:10 am**

skully93 wrote:the BV350 is also a good option there. hits well over highway speeds, and the specs/maint intervals on it are reputed to be very strong.

Only 2 local riders have them, and they're quick, good looking machines. Only time will tell if they are as solid as advertised, but the older models are much loved.

I was excited about this scoot and it may be a good option for some but I found the ergonomics of it to be kind of awkward and uncomfortable. Knees bent at a weird angle, forward lean. Could be something I'd get used to but for a touring bike, I'd want something with a bit more stretchin' out room.

Modern Buddy

First scooter: choices choices!!

First scooter: choices choices!!

Re: First scooter: choices choices!!

Re: First scooter: choices choices!!