a new experience

louie · Post by **louie** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:02 am

i was on some twisties last sunday riding home from a "mc resort" called 29 dreams, great place, google it.

i was taking a super tight curve and scraped the right side. i'd not done that before, although i've scraped the left side several times.

when i got home i leaned the buddy over until it touched. wow, it was low.
when it scraped, the scooter's back wheel jumped over a bit. all was fine and i stayed on coarse but i did take the rest of the road a bit more easy as my heart stayed in my throat for a while.

do you hot rodders do this too? has anyone gotten knocked off their scooter doing this? i don't want it to happen again but i do enjoy taking a good curve.

voodoosix · Post by **voodoosix** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:08 am

i almost dumped my 1st scoot doing that, an '86 yamaha jog (in '86). scary.

my malaguti is capable of some serious lean angles, and i know ill have to tone down my cornering speeds once i get the buddy.

AgentKestrel · Post by **AgentKestrel** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:52 am

louie wrote:i was on some twisties last sunday riding home from a "mc resort" called 29 dreams, great place, google it.

i was taking a super tight curve and scraped the right side. i'd not done that before, although i've scraped the left side several times.

when i got home i leaned the buddy over until it touched. wow, it was low.
when it scraped, the scooter's back wheel jumped over a bit. all was fine and i stayed on coarse but i did take the rest of the road a bit more easy as my heart stayed in my throat for a while.

do you hot rodders do this too? has anyone gotten knocked off their scooter doing this? i don't want it to happen again but i do enjoy taking a good curve.

It is important to know your limits as well as the limits of your bike. This is true with any 2 wheeled vehicle. I guess you can say you know one of them.

I have done this a few times, but now know how far I can lean before it will start to scrape.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:11 am

The rear wheel (as you've learned) is pretty forgiving of being lifted up off the pavement. The front wheel is much less forgiving.

Something else to look out for... when you are heeled over that hard, if you happen to hit a bump or even a dip in the road, that will compress your suspension, which reduces your ground cleaance even more. It's an easy way to crash.

Let's be careful out there.

rickyd410 · Post by **rickyd410** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:19 am

It really is a good idea to lean it over just to see about where it will scrape. I'm gonna do that before I ride out tomorrow morning.

louie · Post by **louie** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:50 pm

rickyd410 wrote:It really is a good idea to lean it over just to see about where it will scrape. I'm gonna do that before I ride out tomorrow morning.

if i had leaned it over before i would have said i'd never go that far.

btw my back tire had 22 lbs in it, which my x dealer said was fine. i've been watchin it go from 25-22 for the past 400 miles. that morning i decided to leave it be. i wonder if it would ve jump lots more with more air.

i'm glad i found it's max point and glad to stay within my limits.
that scooter is sooooo much fun. more more more more more more more..............
i'm glad i found it's max point and glad to stay within my limits.
that scooter is sooooo much fun. more more more more more more more..............
i'm glad i found it's max point and glad to stay within my limits.
that scooter is sooooo much fun. more more more more more more more..............
i'm glad i found it's max point and glad to stay within my limits.
that scooter is sooooo much fun. more more more more more more more..............
i'm glad i found it's max point and glad to stay within my limits.
that scooter is sooooo much fun. more more more more more more more..............
i'm glad i found it's max point and glad to stay within my limits.
that scooter is sooooo much fun. more more more more more more more..............
stay within my limits.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:32 pm

I keep both front and back at 30 psi. I've found it handles much better and with less "wallowing" than at lower pressures. It is more stable in tight corners and doesn't seem to be affected as much by pavement irregularities. And I ride HARD in the corners...I have many mountain roads around here and I take the curves usually at close to double the "suggested" speed limit (the yellow signs). If it says "20 mph", I'm usually doing about 35 or so. The Buddy is fully capable of doing this...just make sure you are current on your maintenance schedule. Tires, oil, bolt tightening...etc. If you do this, you should have no problems in the corners. ALL scooters will have limits, though, as will their riders. Don't exceed those and you're cool.

--Keys

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:24 pm

rickyd410 wrote:It really is a good idea to lean it over just to see about where it will scrape. I'm gonna do that before I ride out tomorrow morning.

You can do that but it will serve no purpose. When you are riding, the bike sits lower to the ground therefore, the angle is less at the point it will scrape.

Dave

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:51 pm

I scraped the stand my first time out on the Buddy.

This really is a matter of experience and familiarity with your scoot. Some daredevils may disagree with me, but IMHO if you scrape stand that usually means you took the curve too fast or leaned it too hard—for fun, practice, whatever reason.

One of the most instructive exercises for me in the MSF course was straightening while leaned in a curve. I nailed it on the first try (

), but it was one of the few maneuvers we did that I'd never practiced or had to do while riding. Totally worth $235 and two days of riding in 100 degree heat!

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:56 pm

ericalm wrote:One of the most instructive exercises for me in the MSF course was straightening while leaned in a curve.

They didn't teach US that in the MSF I took!!

Was that the Experienced course maybe?

louie · Post by **louie** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:37 pm

that was the quick stop in a curve. right Eric? there's an ERC in about 3 weeks, then again in Dec. i want to take. some people take it every year.

I've been giving the low pressure a try. it was suggested. evidently it's takin me a while to note differences. but i'm ready to go the other extreme, 30.
I thought about it sunday morning and decided i'd rather it not hop around. that was wrong assumption you'd say Keys?
the speed limits you mentioned is about what i usually follow too. i may have exceeded it sunday (for a while).

pocphil · Post by **pocphil** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:21 pm

Regarding Scraping -
If you feel your back tire jump out, or slip what is happening is you are unloading your tire and loading up the piece of metal that is scraping. Rubber grips the road, metal doesen't. Do this for a nanosecond too long and it's called a low-side crash. The objective for sport riders is to not experience a low-side crash. The bigger problem with the low-side is usually inexperienced riders can turn a perfectly horrible low-side into a potentially fatal high-side. This comes from feeling the back end washing out and then trying to "bring her back" with the handlebars by doing what we were all taught to do in a car and steering into the skid. In most situations this will cause the sliding bike to regain traction much too suddenly and pitch the rider over the bike into the head-on traffic or into the curb. In any case the injuries are ALWAYS more severe than in the traditional low-side crash. Low sides usually result in torn pants, a sore hip and a swellbow or light shoulder injury. High-sides usually result in a broken collar bone, broken shoulder/arm or spine injury.

When you are riding aggressively you must balance the capabilities of the bike and the rider. That means overcoming the shortcoming of the bike (limited cornering clearance) with the skill of the rider (hanging off the bike). In the attached picture you'll see where I am "hanging off" the bike to the inside of the turn. We found out pretty early that the selector box limited the cornering clearance on a Vespa P series, to compensate for that we leaned our bodies over the right of the scooter allowing us to keep our center of gravity over the tires, but keeping the scooter more upright to avoid riding on metal instead of rubber.

Tire Pressures -

I do think that the recommended 30 psi may be too much for the relatively unloaded front end of a Buddy scooter. I find that 24 psi holds the road better.

I think that having 20 psi in the back end is dangerously low, even for a 100lb rider. I would personally never go below 28 on the back end.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:22 pm

pocphil wrote:Regarding Scraping - If you feel your back tire jump out, or slip what is happening is you are unloading your tire and loading up the piece of metal that is scraping. Rubber grips the road, metal doesen't. Do this for a nanosecond too long and it's called a low-side crash. The objective for sport riders is to not experience a low-side crash. The bigger problem with the low-side is usually inexperienced riders can turn a perfectly horrible low-side into a potentially fatal high-side. This comes from feeling the back end washing out and then trying to "bring her back" with the handlebars by doing what we were all taught to do in a car and steering into the skid. In most situations this will cause the sliding bike to regain traction much too suddenly and pitch the rider over the bike into the head-on traffic or into the curb.

I think this is exactly what happened to me when I went head over heels a couple weeks back. I took a tight corner too fast, pretty sure it was scraping and reacted all wrong. I hit the curb mostly upright and went over the front.

I was very lucky in that I was wearing a full face helmet and armored jacket with back padding. I ended up on my back in blessedly soft grass and underbrush. I did have some back/neck soreness for several days but no permanent damage.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:30 pm

EBee wrote:
ericalm wrote:One of the most instructive exercises for me in the MSF course was straightening while leaned in a curve.
They didn't teach US that in the MSF I took!!
Was that the Experienced course maybe?

Nope. It was in day 2 of the BRC. Enter a turn, then at a certain point, straighten, go forward and come to a stop.

louie · Post by **louie** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:41 am

more air. less agressive. got it.
a little counter lean (edit to ask; or is that the opposite?)to stay put...i did stay put.

BTW I'm taking the ERC in a couple of weeks. i'm getting some hands on instruction, i'm an experiential kind of learner. it should be fun with the MC instructors and riders.

Modern Buddy

a new experience

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