Modern Buddy

I felt ridiculous the other day at the gas station. I was trying to add air to my tires, and was having a surprisingly difficult time with the rear one. Not sure if it's something I need to practice and build up technique, or if I'm doing it oddly.

I put Blitzen on his center stand, and then I need to rotate the tire to get the valve stem accessible. The valve stem goes up and then out (at 90* angle) towards the right (on both front and back tires). In the back though, due to the hot muffler and disc brake, there's only a few inches where it seems to be accessible. Ok.... huffing and puffing a bit but got it! (Note to self: next time take off jacket and helmet first! I was sweating buckets in the heat.)

Trying to fill the tire with air though....I just couldn't get a good enough seal with the pump. I was trying to hold the valve stem steady with one hand (it kept bending back everytime I tried to push the hose onto it) and then try to hold the pump with the other hand. But it just kept hissing out. I was going to try again at a different gas station - I thought they usually have a built in pop-out PSI meter...it wasn't popping out at this one. I tried squeezing some in but not sure if I was successful. We have a small digital PSI meter which I use for the car, so I wasn't going to trust the gas station's PSI number anyway, but I think I let out more air than I added in!

Going to try again at a different gas station, probably tomorrow morning when it's nice and cool.

Any advice?

First off, you need to check the pressure with the tires cold. The air expands when it heats so the pressure will increase. The recommended inflation tire for all tires is the "cold inflation pressure". This will also eliminate the issue of the hot muffler and other stuff.

Secondly, yes, it can be difficult to get the tire chuck on the valve stem on these small tires. You did well by supporting the valve stem from the back while attaching the chuck. If you search MB you will see a lot of threads on valve stem failures and a lot of back and forth on what is the best way to protect the stems when airing-up.

There a many different tire chucks that attach to the stems; some just press on, some have a lever and locks it on and some (like mine) require you to twist the head of the chuck to lock it on.
I have had the best luck with the press-on chucks like I use with my Harbor Freight air compressor. It doesn't have a built-in pressure gauge but I don't trust those anyway. Just check the pressure and add a little air at a time until your separate tire gauge tells you you're at 30 or 31 psi. I've started leaving the pressure in my HF compressor rather than bleeding it out each time so it usually has enough pressure to top off the scooter tires.
My second favorite is my floor stand bicycle tire pump. Most of the time the tire just needs a little air (a few pumps with these small tires) so it's good enough. That one has a built-in pressure gauge that's accurate so that makes it easy (it's a decent Blackburn pump).

I used to have a horrible time putting air in my tires until I got a new set of valves installed.

Now I'm using these:

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/tire_valves/index.htm

Only suggestion I can offer is keep trying!

And I'm a little Jealous, Wish I had a rear disc!

I always carry one of these (the Check-a-spare hose):

http://www.getagauge.com/accessories.cfm

It screws onto your valve stem, which is a lot easier than trying to finagle one of those flip-lever connections into place and also does not put any sideways torque on the stem itself. The 40" reach allows you to work at a comfortable distance from the wheel.

I also went with the solid billet stems when I had the Helix - way better than the flexible ones since you don't need to worry about cracking the rubber base of the stem.

Use a bicycle pump.

One thing to note about leaving your compressor charged is that you have moist air (condensate) that gets trapped in there and can begin to rust out the "chamber". Since this is happening from the inside out you can not see the effects. So it's not a bad idea to vent the air after every use because in time you could have a major failure when pressurized.

rentonhighlander wrote:One thing to note about leaving your compressor charged is that you have moist air (condensate) that gets trapped in there and can begin to rust out the "chamber". Since this is happening from the inside out you can not see the effects. So it's not a bad idea to vent the air after every use because in time you could have a major failure when pressurized.

I know. That's what the manual says, too.
I used to bleed it every use but it charges up so quick when you don't!
You're right, though.

rentonhighlander wrote:One thing to note about leaving your compressor charged is that you have moist air (condensate) that gets trapped in there and can begin to rust out the "chamber". Since this is happening from the inside out you can not see the effects. So it's not a bad idea to vent the air after every use because in time you could have a major failure when pressurized.

Yikes - sounds like a medical condition common among gents in my age category.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yeah, most gas station air pumps with the built in gauge thingies are impossible to use with the 'standard issue complement of only two hands that most humans have' on the scoot, I need three for that.
Search out one where there's just a chuck, then one hand on your tire stem and one hand on the air chuck.
I bought the $39.99 compressor at H-F to simplify my life.

Thanks, Charlie, that extension hose is exactly what I've been looking for. I keep a very small Topeak mountain-bike pump in my toolbag, but it would be a major pain to keep it hooked to the stem while pumping.

http://www.getagauge.com/accessories.cfm

It screws onto your valve stem, which is a lot easier than trying to finagle one of those flip-lever connections into place and also does not put any sideways torque on the stem itself. The 40" reach allows you to work at a comfortable distance from the wheel.

Just ordered one, thanks for the link!

I haven't ordered yet - I stumbled onto their EZ-Air gauge/hose/filler combination. This looks good, too: http://www.getagauge.com/Tire-Gauges/Ac ... EZ-Air.cfm

I was wondering if I could use a bicycle pump .... but not the presta attachment ... the other one. Thnx.

Schrader. God's Chosen Manly-Man Industry Standard Stem.

Tocsik wrote:First off, you need to check the pressure with the tires cold. The air expands when it heats so the pressure will increase. The recommended inflation tire for all tires is the "cold inflation pressure".

This is wrong. I took auto tech classes in college and what he says directly contradicts my text book. You check your pressure cold to make sure its reasonably close to proper PSI before you go so you arent riding on a flat or over inflated tire(s). You drive your car, scooter, and/or motorcycle until the tires are warmed up because the pressure increases as the tires warm up from use. Drive for about five or more minutes and that should be plenty of time. Then check your tires and add or subtract PSI based on what it reads. The PSI your scooter recommends is it's level during operation not while sitting cold. If you set it to it's recommended PSI cold you're going to be consistently riding at a higher level than recommended and this will adversely affect tire wear and fuel economy also possibly safety. If you're worried about the hot tail pipe just do like the guys at my shop and wear long sleeves and a set of gloves if you know you're going to be checking your tires.

QuickTrips provide free air.

Also, pull out a bunch of extra hose, step on the hose with one foot (leaving enough extra slack on the stem part) to keep it from retracting.

avonpirate wrote:I was wondering if I could use a bicycle pump .... but not the presta attachment ... the other one. Thnx.

A standard Schrader-valve bicycle pump will work just fine. Heck, I've used mine to reinflate a leaky tire on my car. Slowly.

NeoGenisisMax, I don't care what your college book says, the manual that comes with nearly every motor vehicle and airplane says to check the tire pressure COLD that is, at reasonable ambient temperature. It even says that on most tire sidewalls. Now if ya want to get into special tuning techniques such as racing/high speed rallying then you may want to fiddle with warm or hot pressure equivalents. Normal daily road folks use cold.

Karl

CROSSBOLT wrote: ...
the manual that comes with nearly every motor vehicle and airplane says to check the tire pressure COLD that is, at reasonable ambient temperature. It even says that on most tire sidewalls.
...
Karl

Karl is right. Always check pressure at cold temp (i.e. not "warmed up")

In fact, if you have a vehicle with a tire pressure monitor, it will display the adjusted temperature for what the "cold temp" is. You can do the same equation, you just need an accurate temperature reading.

Well, last night on my way home I felt like it was low...it rode weirder...maybe it was starting to hit a bad threshold of lowness! So I dropped in on a gas station and filled it. It wasn't so bad this time: I think it was the actual nozzle/pump at the last station that was so problematic. I did the same thing I attempted before: hold the stem steady (careful not to put forward pressure on it) and then align the nozzle of the pump. This one made a fine seal within seconds.


[post rewritten:]
This morning I found out I overfilled the front tire, but last night I thought it had been the rear. I had commented it felt like the scooter was leaning...wrong on the last mile (post-station) home. As if the rear tire was a ball when I was making turns or on a curve. I had checked the pressure when I came home (only on the rear, it was too dark out) and was confused what the problem was, as the pressure was at 34psi. I tweaked that I messed up the stem or broke the tire or something, I don't know. Not a good thought to go to bed on.

At 7:45am, I checked the front tire first. It was at 45 psi :O So I let some air out of course!

Keeping the gauge with me in the pet carrier so that I can go do it accurately this time, as I want to bump the rear to a cold pressure of 35 psi. (Some discussion in the Blur forum, several people are running 40 and really liking it. Guess the scooter recommends 30, and the stock tire says 40...)

The ride was a lot improved so I clearly was in need of air and so I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner, and for doing it wrong the first two times <.<

A good learning experience though. Definitely going to keep a much closer eye on the scoot tires for the rest of my life. And hopefully no harm done (it wasn't flat, just low).


I'm also going to order that extension cable thing, cause that rear tire is a PITA!!

I'm willing to bet that the problems you're having are the result of not draining the break-in air. You're supposed to do this at 500 miles and then refill with full synthetic air.

synthetic air????? what is that???? I used my bike pump yesterday and all seemed to work just fine. Was that synthetic air? But now I am reading : not to push valve forward. What does that mean??? Please and thnx. U.S. pro cycling tour came through here yesterday. All of a sudden I was a 'motorcycle' instead of a scooter. Whatever.

charlie55 wrote:I'm willing to bet that the problems you're having are the result of not draining the break-in air. You're supposed to do this at 500 miles and then refill with full synthetic air.

I didn't go to full synthetic air until my second air fill-up, around 900 miles. I think that gave the bead a better seat. Now I run a custom mix of synthetic, nitrogen, and dog breath that I find helps the Buddy to overcome its poor suspension.

All of this is at 28.6 psi, of course.

avonpirate wrote:synthetic air????? what is that???? I used my bike pump yesterday and all seemed to work just fine. Was that synthetic air? But now I am reading : not to push valve forward. What does that mean??? Please and thnx. U.S. pro cycling tour came through here yesterday. All of a sudden I was a 'motorcycle' instead of a scooter. Whatever.

Synthetic air is only available in New Jersey. It's a combination of hydrocarbons, toxic waste, and trace amounts of oxygen. Its primary advantage over regular air is that it has a viscosity rating just slightly lower than roofing tar, thus instantly imparting "run-flat" capability to any tire.

I got tired of paying for the Organic Free Range Air so now I'm just using all the Hot Air coming from the upcoming election.

charlie55 wrote:I'm willing to bet that the problems you're having are the result of not draining the break-in air. You're supposed to do this at 500 miles and then refill with full synthetic air.

I only run Royal Purple air in my tires .... they last forever.

Rob

you boyz have just brought outright laughter into my life. So, my conclusion is that synthetic air is an illuison???
Bring on the bicycle pump with recyclyed Rocky Mountian air.

Again. whats the issue with the tire stem: real or illusion.???

avonpirate wrote:you boyz have just brought outright laughter into my life. So, my conclusion is that synthetic air is an illuison???
Bring on the bicycle pump with recyclyed Rocky Mountian air.

Again. whats the issue with the tire stem: real or illusion.???

Since the stock tire stems are bent at a 90 degree angle, it's easy to put a lot of sideways stress on them when connecting to an air pump. Too much flexing can cause the rubber seal at the base of the stem to start cracking, leading to an eventual failure. With a straight stem, most of the force when connecting is downward, which does not cause flexing/twisting.