Modern Buddy

Does anyone have a preference on oil for the engine and gear box for the first oil change? Also, when can I switch to synthetic? Any preferences?

You can switch to synthetic at the first oil change.

1. AMSOIL

2. MOBIL 1

3. Royal Purple

4. Rotella

I prefer new oil.

Change it regularly, and it really doesn't matter which flavor you use...

i use canola oil

vitaminC wrote:I prefer new oil.

Change it regularly, and it really doesn't matter which flavor you use...

I disagree on the what FLAVOR you use comment, this scooter holds less than quart of oil and is an air cooled engine, putting the BEST OIL in and changing the filter and Oil Regularly will increase the life span of your scooter motor.....I cant help but wonder what type and how much oil the dealer serviced the guys scooter who has a thread going now because his motor is trashed.............

I even have an oil temp dipstick in mine now so I can monitor temps as I ride...maybe a little anal but I will know if something is going wrong as I look at it when I am at stop lights etc to see if everything is o.k.............

I am running the New Scooter Oil from Amsoil now, its 10w40.......the manual for the buddy calls for 15w 40 but I read the repair manual for the buddy 125 and it states to put in 15w 40 or a PREMIUM OIL.........

I plan on getting many.......many miles out of my buddy before rebuild.

SCOOTER SOLDIER wrote:[I cant help but wonder what type and how much oil the dealer serviced the guys scooter who has a thread going now because his motor is trashed.............

IMHO, running Walmart oil is better than running no oil, which seems to be what the scooter you mentioned suffered from.

There have been cases of people not having the oil drain bolt and/or filler properly secured (whether by the dealer or themselves) causing the scoot to run out of oil- even Amsoil super-oil would not help when it's drained onto the ground compared to staying where it belongs...

Aren't oil threads fun??

Everyone must read and digest POC Phil's famous Oil Rant

During break-in you don't want to use an oil that is too slippery, so I just use a good petroleum based SG grade automotive 5w40. I don't consider break-in done after the first oil change. I'll wait to switch to synthetic only after at least 1200 miles (that will be the 2nd oil change) - at which time I'll also change the filter. I'll use a good automotive 5w40 synthetic, not a 'motorcycle' oil - there is no advantage to the expensive 'motorcycle' grade oils.

As for gear oil, mine has always remained pristine every time I drain it. It probably doesn't need changing very often, but since it doesn't require much oil I change it each time anyhow - and that makes sure it doesn't run low either. Just be careful to never overfill it.

-Mark

SCOOTER SOLDIER wrote:

vitaminC wrote:I prefer new oil.

Change it regularly, and it really doesn't matter which flavor you use...

.....I cant help but wonder what type and how much oil the dealer serviced the guys scooter who has a thread going now because his motor is trashed.............

Well wonder no more.... I used "Napa Premium 15w-40". 900ml, which is the proper amount. I also replaced his oil filter.

....but he had about 5,000 miles on that oil and when he brought in the scooter the oil level was at less than half! There were no external oil leaks that I could find.

I recommend changing the oil at the owner's manual specified interval of every 1,000 miles. The oil filter should be changed every 4,000 miles. If you fail to properly maintain your scooter, you will eventually damage it. We have already seen the proof.

Filters are cheap...why aren't you replacing them at every oil change?

SCOOTER SOLDIER wrote:
I even have an oil temp dipstick in mine now so I can monitor temps as I ride...maybe a little anal but I will know if something is going wrong as I look at it when I am at stop lights etc to see if everything is o.k.............

Where did you get the oil temp dipstick and do you remember how much it cost? I am anal enough to buy this.

Klotz

kmo2771 wrote:Filters are cheap...why aren't you replacing them at every oil change?

I replace my filter at every change but I can't force my customers to do the same. The filters may be cheap but so are some scooter owners.... Anyway, the manual recommends replacing the filter every 4,000 miles.

He had about 5,000 miles on that oil? hmmmmmmmmm thats not the impression I got from the other thread......I will review it, I thought he said he had the oil changed just a couple weeks prior to the engine failure.......

If I were the owner I would have an oil analysis done ASAP......

Dave did your shop properly document the mileage at the last engine oil service change? and do you have a record of that?

Did you document that also in the owners manual........this should be fairly easy to confirm what is accurate information here if your shop properly documented that information........

Even with that though a oil sample analysis should be done in my opinion and that may give some additional information as to what and why the engine failed........Also the CONSUMPTION of oil is troubling as well........WHY? that is not that many miles and are you telling me that when the buddy125 reaches that many miles it will consume or BURN 50% of the oil? seems like something else is going and most likely a warranty item......

Interested to see more information here....

As for the guy wanting the oil temp dipstick........I am working on making these available for everyone soon!!!!!!!

SCOOTER SOLDIER wrote:He had about 5,000 miles on that oil? hmmmmmmmmm thats not the impression I got from the other thread......I will review it, I thought he said he had the oil changed just a couple weeks prior to the engine failure.......

If I were the owner I would have an oil analysis done ASAP......

Dave did your shop properly document the mileage at the last engine oil service change? and do you have a record of that?

Did you document that also in the owners manual........this should be fairly easy to confirm what is accurate information here if your shop properly documented that information........

Even with that though a oil sample analysis should be done in my opinion and that may give some additional information as to what and why the engine failed........Also the CONSUMPTION of oil is troubling as well........WHY? that is not that many miles and are you telling me that when the buddy125 reaches that many miles it will consume or BURN 50% of the oil? seems like something else is going and most likely a warranty item......

Interested to see more information here....

As for the guy wanting the oil temp dipstick........I am working on making these available for everyone soon!!!!!!!

The last oil change he had done at our shop (according to him, he hasn't had the oil changed anywhere else or changed it himself), he also had us replace his rear tire the same day. That was about 2 months ago. When he brought the scooter in 2 days ago, I noticed his rear tire was worn down to the wear indicators. This leads me to believe that he has gone somewhere between 4,000 to 6,000 miles (thats what we see for normal tire wear for that particular tire) since his last oil change. Also the oil level was down to less than half. It is entirely possible and normal for the oil level to be this low after 4k to 6k miles, especially if it is not checked. Remember the engine only holds 900ml!!!

Its up to the owner to keep track of all maintenance records. If its done by the owner, they just have to save the receipts for the oil/filter purchase.

We spoke to Genuine and explained the situation to them. They concluded that the owner is at fault and it will not be covered under warantee. Its really out of our hands. We have no problem fixing scooters under warantee, we get paid either way. In fact its even easier to have something covered under warantee because we don't have to worry about a customer giving us a bad check or stopping payment on a credit card since we just get reimbursed directly from Genuine. The parts are free and they pay the labor. Its win win!

Also we did offer to sell him a brand new engine for $200 under retail and to install it for 3 hours labor ($55/hour) even if it took longer. He said no.

We certainly don't want people to leave unhappy but what can we do if Genuine doesn't want to cover it? Pay out of our own pocket?

Dave wrote:That was about 2 months ago. When he brought the scooter in 2 days ago, I noticed his rear tire was worn down to the wear indicators. This leads me to believe that he has gone somewhere between 4,000 to 6,000 miles (thats what we see for normal tire wear for that particular tire) since his last oil change.

I still don't understand why anyone has to guess how many miles there have been since the last oil change. Don't you record the mileage on the invoice when doing a service? If not, how is the customer going to know whether or not the shop is doing joyrides on their scoot? And if so, then some simple subtraction will indicate how many miles have been covered...

Dave wrote:We certainly don't want people to leave unhappy but what can we do if Genuine doesn't want to cover it? Pay out of our own pocket?

Most places call it goodwill.

Dave

Dave wrote: The last oil change he had done at our shop (according to him, he hasn't had the oil changed anywhere else or changed it himself), he also had us replace his rear tire the same day. That was about 2 months ago. When he brought the scooter in 2 days ago, I noticed his rear tire was worn down to the wear indicators. This leads me to believe that he has gone somewhere between 4,000 to 6,000 miles (thats what we see for normal tire wear for that particular tire) since his last oil change. Also the oil level was down to less than half. It is entirely possible and normal for the oil level to be this low after 4k to 6k miles, especially if it is not checked. Remember the engine only holds 900ml!!!

Is it not possible that outside influences could cause said tire wear that would not be a result of driving somewhere between 4,000 and 6,000 miles?

We certainly don't want people to leave unhappy but what can we do if Genuine doesn't want to cover it? Pay out of our own pocket

The question should be, which would be cheaper in the long run, to replace the motor out of pocket now and strictly be out the price of the motor and time, or have bad publicity on on of the onlyforums strictly dedicated to the Buddy scooter. Even if this incidentcosts you the sale of 2 Buddy scooters, I imagine that would have covered the cost of the replacement motor, and with your reputation in jeopardy; it has the potential to cost you more sales and service then that.

Also we did offer to sell him a brand new engine for $200 under retail and to install it for 3 hours labor ($55/hour) even if it took longer. He said no.

The more appropriate offer would have been offering him the new motor for COST seeing as how the reputation of your shop is online. Since the issue in question is that you did or did not do something as simple as change oil properly.

At least that's my 2 cents.

DAVE

"We spoke to Genuine and explained the situation to them. They concluded that the owner is at fault and it will not be covered under warantee."


***Dave I am just offering my OPINION on the information offered up by you and the customer, and it appears that your shop did not properly record the mileage between the time the scooter had its oil change as you have offered up a GUESS as to the mileage based on tire wear?????

That is not an accurate way to assess mileage on any vehicle sir, many factors play into tire wear and they are as follows...

1. The condition of the roads the person is riding on.

2. Weight of the Rider has an impact on tire wear.

3. Riding style, is the person an aggressive rider? If he or she is Tire wear would be accelerated.

4. Improper Tire Pressure will also accelerate tire wear which I believe you stated the tires were not at the proper air pressure.

You stated that Genuine has placed the FAULT on the Owner and I am wondering if they have the accurate information to make that determination at this juncture?

The reason I say that is because if you just told them the scooter had over 5,000 miles and the oil level was below half.......then of course they are going to say its the customers fault.........but did you tell them you based it on a GUESS of MILEAGE because of TIRE WEAR or are you basing this off your records of mileage when the oil change was done?

Correct me if I am wrong here but I am assuming you did not properly Document the mileage and based on that I am tending to lean towards the customers accounting of approx how many miles were ridden vs the TIRE WEAR THEORY......

I would strongly recommend your shop resubmit the information to Genuine Motor scooter company including all of the relevant information and leave out the GUESSES of mileage based on tire wear.....

Everyone should be checking oil levels etc..periodically and In my opinion if you were going to SELL the customer a complete new engine for $200.00 then if it was me and I was the owner of your shop and there was a GREY AREA then I would lean in support of the customer and take care of them...and try to work it out with Genuine scooter later on my own time and not the customers time........

This Customer appears to have trusted your shop to do the work and paid you for servicing the scooter, is saving $200.00 this time going to COST you more down the road for not standing behind your customers and doing the right thing? Is the $200.00 engine going to put your business under?

Right or wrong the companies that step up get it back 10 fold later because word of mouth is the best form of advertising...what do you think that customer is going to say to everyone if Genuine denied the claim but you stepped up and took care of them?

Do ya think you will have a life long customer and maybe more from his or her referrals?

Ya can save $200.00 now, but how much will that decision cost you down the road?

Take care Dave and I hope this has a Happy ending.

I don't think he offered to sell him a whole new motor for $200, they only offered him a measly $200 off the price of a new motor.

Everyone should be checking oil levels etc..periodically and In my opinion if you were going to SELL the customer a complete new engine for $200.00 then if it was me and I was the owner of your shop and there was a GREY AREA then I would lean in support of the customer and take care of them...and try to work it out with Genuine scooter later on my own time and not the customers time........

They offered a new motor at $200 under retail plus 3 hrs labor ($165). NOT for a new motor for $200.

I agree that the denial of warranty service should NOT be based on a series of guesses. But I also don't think the dealer's insight should be dismissed out of hand, they usually have a pretty good idea of what is going on, certainly the good ones do.

I'm glad I have a good relationship with the people at my dealership, they've been great to me and acted as my advocate - even when I show up at their dealership with a bunch of gear I bought on the internet ...


-Mark

Thanks for that correction, Regardless of the Price the dealers have access to parts and or engines (COMPLETE) for fractions of the cost and they are not hard to install either.....I took my Kymco engine out and two bolts hold the thing on, the shock bolt and the main bolt.......the rest is just a few hoses and wires.........

Not labor intensive by any means.......a good mechanic would have a new one in and out in a day or less in my opinion........


Plenty of Options here that I am guessing would make the customer happy...A new engine...........a repaired engine........or a used replaced Engine with similar mileage.........not trying to speak for the customer here but plenty of options that are not that expensive the dealer could offer up to satisfy the customer and then the Dealer could work the issue with Genuine on their time vs the customers time...........Customer FIRST always! within reason of course..........

(soo many questions....my head hurts )

Ok, I still stand by my original diagnosis. As I already mentioned, my boss and I explained the entire situation to Genuine. They made their decision. I'm sorry if some of you disagree with it and maybe my shop or Genuine will lose sales but I guess we all have to cut our losses somewhere.

I make repairs to scooters everyday. Many of these repairs are due to lack of preventive maintenance. If my shop repaired all these scooters for free, we would be one broke-ass scooter shop! We can't be responsible for someone's lack of PM. Sure, fixing them for free would be great for word of mouth advertising but I don't think we would last long. Eventually our building's landlord is going to want his rent money!

The oil change was done properly. We did our part, its up to the owner to do his part and maintain the oil level. I really don't see how we should be held responsible for this repair. If this was our fault we would have no problem making it right.

I think if DesertHealer wants his scooter fixed for free or at cost, he may want to talk to the dealer he bought the scooter from. Maybe they would be willing to eat the cost of an engine or a rebuild. Or if they want to pay us to fix it I would be happy to do it! Bonus, he wouldn't have to travel far.

BTW, I suggest everyone check their oil level at every fuel stop.

Listen, I have nothing against this guy and I would love to be able to help him out (I would also like to have his old engine to experiment with! I would like to find out which, if any, big bore kits will work with this engine). I can understand his frustration. Unfortunately its not my decision to make. I am just the lowly moped mechanic

In a few days I will bring this up again with my boss. Maybe we can figure out some sort of compromise. No promises though.....

That was not the response I am sure many were looking for from you, I don't think anyone expects any shops to do work for free.......

And if someone has abused their scooter then they should have to pay for the repairs.......

But based on your own posts here, you did not even DOCUMENT the mileage at the oil change...you are ASSUMING that the miles were high on SOME WILD GUESS by looking at the TIRES?

The customer I believe is Disputing this HIGH mileage claim of yours....

deserthealer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:10 pm

thanks for all your imput. The scooter seemed to be running just fine. there was never any smoke. I did not check the oil after it broke down. I also never did any of my own maintenance. The dealer did all of it. When I spoke to the dealer yesterday they told me that it was my fault for not checking the oil every other time I fill up. I had them change the oil about a month ago and have put on about 700 miles since.

and you never did answer my question either.....are you saying that the buddy 125 consumes or BURNS more than 50% of the oil with the mileage that is on that scooter?

Are you saying that is NORMAL?

I am not an expert but it seems unusual to me as others have posted here with Mileage over 10,000 miles and I have not heard one of them state the scooter is BURNING or USING oil at all let alone MORE THAN 50% only a few weeks after an oil change!!!........so it may be there was or is a warranty Item here with this scooter and may very well have been the cause of the failed motor. If it was serviced properly in the first place.

More research warranted and an oil analysis would be a start IMO...

I am extremely disappointed in your response here and find it a very unprofessional approach to handling this situation and attempting to help your customer.....

What is the name of your shop anyway? where is it located?

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that EVERYONE HERE COPY A LINK to this THREAD and the BROKE ENGINE THREAD and EMAIL IT TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE AT GENUINE MOTOR SCOOTER COMPANY TO ENSURE THEY have all the information and can make a proper decision based on all the information..........I cant believe that Genuine Motor Scooter Company would Deny a Warranty claim from a Dealer who FAILED to PROPERLY DOCUMENT the MILEAGE and was basing it on a guess of TIRE WEAR instead............that just does not make sense..........

Looking for some additional Input here Dave....

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewto ... 880#215880

Disregard the link in my previous post, modernvespa has chosen to censor this subject.

Guess they got the Dealers and Manufactures Back on this one.