are BMS heritage scooters any good?

[sharonmcmillion]

can't quite afford a BUDDY and was thinking about a BMS heritage 150...are they good scooters?

[ravenlore]

It's Chinese. There are folks who will dismiss most Chinese scooters immediately. I am of the opinion that IF you have proper dealer support a Chinese scooter may be a serviceable starter ride.


I had a Chinese scooter. I knew what I was buying and I made an informed decision. My sister still has it and it's a little trooper.

[Drum Pro]

What Ravenlore said...but I think that goes for any scoot. I'm interested in seeing how those Puma Valentines pan out. I won't buy one but I like the look of it. The back of it kinda reminds me of the Jettsons cartoon....You could always go used on a Buddy...

[spr0k3t]

There are very few chinese scooters which are worth buying. One of the better unknowns I've seen is the Argo, but they are out of business. I've seen a couple BMS scoots up close and personal... there are a few things I would make sure to have on hand if you go that route. You'll want to change out the fuel lines unless your dealer does that for you. Also, run a good grade of gas without any ethonal if you can find some in your area. Keep a spare spark plug on hand as you never know.

[jprestonian]

The Chinese are doing what the rest of the world asks of it: In this case, dealers in the U.S. who want the cheapest possible scooter that will roll out of a parking lot on its own power, providing them with massive profit margins.

These dealers generally don't care if the thing even makes it home. They just care about the 300%+ profit margin they're realizing from low-information bargain hunters... and in the U.S., anyway, there is certainly no shortage of those.

The dealers don't care if the Chinese manufacturers use slave, child or prison labor. The dealers don't care if the manufacturing process poisons the entire country of China. They care about delivering a product that will roll out of a parking lot on its own power, providing them with massive profit margins, period.

That is not to say the Chinese can't build a scooter that will compete with better brands. They can. The problem is in finding dealers who will be happy with a 30% profit margin rather than 300% or more.
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[Dooglas]

You want both a good dealer and a good parts and warranty network behind whatever you buy. Unfortunately, that is seldom the case with brand X Chinese-built scooters. If you can't afford a new Buddy, Yamaha, Kymco, or similar - I'd consider used.

[anthony]

I'd echo looking for a used one, or maybe a new sym fiddle II, which is around $400 or so cheaper than a buddy, but is well-made, reliable, and still has that nice, classic styling.

[mqracing]

Do some research--- check out some of the chinese scooter forums like scootdawg or 49ccscoot.com.

I have found some very good guides on some of these forums--- for example a complete step by step guide to PDI your new scooter. It is a bit consuming but if perhaps you'll feel more Zen or karma with your scoot if you get down and personal with it

On the bright side is that these are generic clones--- GY6 engines for example--- parts are pentiful and cheap. Just a google away.

I'm inches away myself from pulling the rip chord and buying a CPI Oliver city 50cc two stroke.

these are (or I'm hoping they are :=) good machines to learn on--- to become actively involved with--- to establish some zen with....

[easy]

no not by that company very simlar is the Cali 125 that have good reviews. My money would go used Buddy or Kymco

[JHScoot]

price and expectations are everything when choosing a china scoot imo. that and its factory of origin. among chinese manufacturers Znen is the largest and some would say the best bet in a china scoot. BMS distributes Znen scooters for the most part, and the Heritage is Znen built

Znen builds scooters some U.S. distributors have seen fit to offer 12 month / 12,000 mile warranties with IF bought through an authorized dealer, and BMS is one of 'em. the "old" Lance and now defunct Fly Scooters did the same. how well the distributors stand behind the warranties, who knows? but if you buy one from a drop shipper its usually 90 Days / 3,000 mile parts only. maybe a year on the engine, but JUST the engine. it is often not the engine which is the problem with the scoots, but components attached to the engine and otherwise. so a 1 year engine only warranty from a drop shipper is really not much motive to buy imo

imo don't spend more then $1,000 to $1200 TOTAL on a BMS / Znen Heritage from a drop shipper, and no more then $1400 from a dealer with full warranty. remember, its about price and expectations. consider it cheap and fun transpo, expect a lemon, and you might be surprised. ask yourself how far you want it to go for your $1200 or so, and how much you are willing to risk losing. or can lose. if its $1200 or so, you're good to go

have an experienced and honest MECHANIC or knowledgeable shop that can set it up (PDI) for you, and work on it when it needs work. many shops won't touch a china scoot, and some that do just stink

finally understand that BMS Heritage is essentially the same underneath as any other Znen built 150 scooter. so whenever and where ever you see a a scooter manufactured by Znen it would be just as well as the Heritage.

here is a vid of a guy with a BMS / Znen / Lance / Heritage with some mods. apparently he's had some luck with it. you might, too. or might not.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9y7bUveNiPs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[JHScoot]

how about this? gotta love it. kinda.' all that chrome is meh, though. imo

http://www.superiorpowersports.com/150c ... helsea.htm

http://www.countyimports.com/inc/sdetai ... 4589/47123

don't fall for all the propaganda posted with that second ad. they lie pretty good

you can usually call a drop shipper and make offers, too. i have seen some local dealers trying to get over $2,000 for these. one had it priced at $2500

[JHScoot]

ok let me be the first to say it. i revisited this thread and the BMS Chelsea posted above, and i do NOT like this scooter. i think its the accessories? but even so with those wheels and tires and the muffler guard and those ridiculous mirrors? and how well will the china chrome fair over time? the whole set up is gaudy as hell

the scooter itself? its OK. but still sort of weird looking. the profile is strange. i

[redhandmoto]

Like the OP, I find these bikes to be very appealing, and did a little research and sniffin' around to see what was what.

Numero Uno: The guys over on the scootdawg forum are the people to see for all things PRC. Several of the members there can provide solid advice as to Chinese manufacturers and even specific plants where the more reliable and worthy machines are produced.

I flirted for a while with the idea of similarly-styled 150s to that which caught your eye, just because I liked they way they looked. I lost interest when I found that the "long-case" 150cc engines (with their 13" wheels) where no longer being produced, but if 10" wheels are something you can live with, the members over there advised that buyers should consider:

- replacing the vacuum and fuels lines, and the spark plug with decent brands

- replacing the fuel pump with a Mikuni; the inferior pumps often supplied cannot always keep the carb bowl filled at higher sustained speeds;

- replacing the carburetor itself with a Mikuni;

- some found it helpful to replace the CDI

- replacing connector hardware, bolts, etc. along the way with those made with better steel, and loctiting everything down. I found this to be particularly important on the Lifan-brand CT70 clone I had, which otherwise gave very good service.

Tomos, the Slovenian moped people, for a while had a long-case 150 scoot nearly identical in style (the "Velocity"). They were made in China under contract with SYM of Taiwan, who had a stricter quality-control protocol, but were dropped from the Tomos line about the time other long-case 150s dried up.

Ya know, none of the upgrade components listed above are bank-breakers; even if you do them all, you still have a very cost-effective machine. If you like the looks of the bike, latch on to a decent independent mechanic and go for it.

They're pretty scoots; shucks, I may do it myself, 10" wheels and all.

[JHScoot]

.

......I lost interest when I found that the "long-case" 150cc engines (with their 13" wheels) where no longer being produced, but if 10" wheels are something you can live with, the members over there advised....


...they're pretty scoots; shucks, I may do it myself, 10" wheels and all

scooters. scooters have ten inch wheels. you are posting on a board named after a scooter with ten inch wheels

by and large i would say most who want and all who ride a Buddy can live with ten inch wheels

[redhandmoto]

[scooters. scooters have ten inch wheels.

Except for those that don't, Snidely. What's your point? Do you have one, beyond the excretion of gratuitous nastiness?

Oh, wait; we all know that Piaggio, Vespa, Yamaha, KYMCO, SYM, Honda, et alia, don't make scooters...guess you're right

[sharonmcmillion]

thanks for all the imput...I guess I'll go with a used Buddy

[Dooglas]

thanks for all the imput...I guess I'll go with a used Buddy

Good call! You are likely to find a good price on a decent used scooter at this time of the year.

[JHScoot]

[scooters. scooters have ten inch wheels.

Except for those that don't, Snidely. What's your point? Do you have one, beyond the excretion of gratuitous nastiness?

Oh, wait; we all know that Piaggio, Vespa, Yamaha, KYMCO, SYM, Honda, et alia, don't make scooters...guess you're right

my point is why tell anyone "if you can live with ten inch wheels" when scooters traditionally are small wheeled bikes? i have read other forums where people say "OMG 10in wheels unstable and unsafe." really? and when did this happen? because they were just fine for many for a very long time

big wheeled scooters have really only come on recently in popularity. even some maxi scoots wear 12 and 13in wheels. on a motorcycle that would be odd, but not on a scooter as you know

same with the 10in. in fact i'd be more likely to tell someone "yeah but it has those 16in wheels. not as nimble, not as flickable, and not as scooter like as it might be." which is true for its wheel size! so if they can live with a scooter that handles and rides somewhat like a motorcycle, ok then. get a big wheeled scooter. so my suggestion is the same as yours, but in reverse order

10-12 inch wheels are ideal for a scooter like the Buddy. warnings from fellow riders notwithstanding

and nothing was nasty about my post. i am just posting about scooters and wheel size and what not. lots of scoots have small wheels. its a very good thing imo

[az_slynch]

Tens aren't that squirrley. Ride on the eights of a vintage Vespa and then complain about tens with a straight face. Only one of my current scooters has tires over ten inches, and it's on twelve inch spoked wheels.

I agree that there are vendors out there that make big wheeled scooters. I'd also like to point out that all of the listed vendors have also manufactured "traditional" scooters with 10" wheels. Elite 80s got along fine for a 22 year production run with ten inch tires, so I have a hard time believing that they can be dismissed as horribly unsafe. Early big-bore scooters could top 70 on little tires with little fuss. Simply because some newer bikes come with bigger wheels does not make small wheels unsafe by default.

Those points aside, I believe that the best reason for bigger wheels is to allow room for bigger brakes, IMHO. There's the "more stability" argument as well (as you can tell, I don't buy that one...). Potholes can break a seventeen inch wheel just as handily as a ten; just avoid the things regardless of wheel size. Tires are going to cost more on a bigger wheel. Bigger wheels cut into under seat storage on many models too. Pros and cons for big wheels, just like little wheels...

Piaggio has always been Vespa. Vespa is now more of a boutique name, like Lexus is to Toyota.

Pulling out dastardly names from Wacky Racers is pretty cheesy, man.

Apologies to the OP. I agree with the assessment that a used bike from a quality manufacturer is a good bet. Unless you find a good vendor of Chinese bikes, you really don't know much about the build quality of the bike. My biggest beefs with Chinese bikes have to do with build quality and metallurgy, part of which can be resolved by vendor intervention in the build process and through good pre-delivery prep. I've repaired Chinese bikes for friends and they just don't have the level of engineering and finish of a Japanese or Taiwanese manufacturer's products. The rub is that some of those bikes are built in China, but with a level of quality and attention that many Chinese manufacturers just don't *get*. I am seeing improvement over earlier offerings, but they still have a way to go before I'd be able to ride one with the faith I have in other vendors.

[neotrotsky]

thanks for all the imput...I guess I'll go with a used Buddy

Good call! You are likely to find a good price on a decent used scooter at this time of the year.

With budgets in our household stretched thin with SO many new expenses, I had to face a finanical adjustment when buying my new bike. I had planned to buy a new Stella and that was that... until we had to find a new place to live, I had to replace my live sound gig mixing console AND my grant for tuition while I was working full time got denied. So, I had to adjust budgets.

My solution? Kymco Agility 125!! Out the door it was $2135. Two year warranty, brand new and in the color I wanted even! Cheaper than a lightly used Buddy, and a great "commuter" bike. And, the *only* scooter I'd buy out of China. That's because the factory is owned by Kymco, and held to their manufacturing standards. Unlike the no name crap scooters out of China, Kymco has a name and image to protect around the world. They want to make the best profit like everyone else, but at the same time, bad bikes only cost them money. I was leery at first, but so far it's a winner.

Best rule of thumb: How many dedicated brick and mortar dealers can you find? As in, people who advertise they are "Vespa" or "Kymco" or "Genuine" dealers instead of places that are "Super-cheap-happy-funtime-$899-scooter" dealers? That usually helps when you do need service or parts. And, accountability ranks in there: You know where to track them down and if they'll be around.

[magnato1]

Sharon, I ride a Lance Cali Classic 125. Found here: http://lancepowersports.com/

They also make the Havana Classic which is identical aside from the handle bars. I really love my Classic. It has 1,500 miles and I haven't had any problems. Lance is produced by SYM. SYM had a contract with Honda for 40 or so years to build certain styles of Honda bikes. Every Honda I have ever had has been amazing, so if Honda trusted them to make bikes, you know they're doing something right. The front wheel is 12 inches, so it handles nicely, it's shorter in seat height than a Stella, but I am not sure how a Buddy compares to a Stella. It comes with a 2 year warranty also. I paid something like $2,100 out the door. If you need something cheap and reliable, this is the way to go.

Also, someone above was saying that you should check out a SYM Fiddle II. My dealer sells both bikes and he really likes them both, but he has said that the Classic comes from a different manufacturing plant and it's obvious that the Classic plant has a far greater attention to detail. He also likes the way the Classic rides more. Good luck!

[ericalm]

Among the Honda Joker clones and lookalikes available in the US, the Lance Cali Classic is probably the best and will have the best dealer support and most reliable warranty. It's quite possibly the same scooter (or a variation) as this one:

Tomos, the Slovenian moped people, for a while had a long-case 150 scoot nearly identical in style (the "Velocity"). They were made in China under contract with SYM of Taiwan, who had a stricter quality-control protocol, but were dropped from the Tomos line about the time other long-case 150s dried up.

The BMS, in particular, is no bueno. I don't know anyone who's owned one that lasted very long. Most wound up buying other scooters eventually, which doesn't actually save money in the long run, ha!

With regards to most of these, you'll notice that you rarely see any on the road that are more than a couple years old or have over 20,000 miles.

[JHScoot]

i see quite a bit of people ride the bms / znen joker clones in the scooter group. how they holding up when you see 'em on the rides, eric?

they look kinda beat to me after a short while. just something off about 'em. i have come to not favor the look, myself. i think the Havana with the covered handlebars look much better

[viney266]

I worked on a BMS as wasn't too impressed. Anytime I see "that" muffler and "ABS" brakes I try to run away.

I always tell my new scoot friends. Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Vespa(piaggio), Genuine, Kymco , SYM.

If its not one of those, I steer clear.

Yes, vintage scoots are an exception.

There are different quality levels on the Chinese scoots, but, as others, I would steer you towards a used buddy before a new BMS; you will have better luck.

[ericalm]

i see quite a bit of people ride the bms / znen joker clones in the scooter group. how they holding up when you see 'em on the rides, eric?

Most make it to the end. One with us at Swerve had little pieces falling off. One some time ago dropped its exhaust shortly after the ride.

More than a couple have been traded for Buddys.