Modern Buddy

The Scooter gods have decreed that my lot in life is to own but 2 scooters. I already have a 2012 Buddy 170i which I dearly love but as you all know it has its limitations as far as a serious open road go anywhere type touring scooter is concerned. What would be your recommendations for that type of scoot with the only limitations that it weigh under 350 lbs and have a CVT. I say under 350 lbs. as a few years back I owned a Yamaha Majesty 400 scooter (the perfect tourer) but at 400+ lbs. it was just a bit too heavy for my 70+ year old body. So, recommendations anyone? To keep the weight down I'm thinking something in the 300 - 350cc engine size would work but I'm definitely open minded on the subject. In any event, Happy Holidays to all,

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in AZ
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"

I personally think that the only limitations to a bike for touring is what YOUR body will take. The 170i can handle long distance riding no problem and, like the rest of the Genuine line, has proven to be rock solid reliable for 4-stroke bikes in general. As for a "touring" scooter, I would think that the only scooter type bike that fits that is a sliverwing or majesty considering ther long wheel base. But, those have a very "old man barcalounger" feel to them. The Scarabeos have some fine touring kit setups and are closer to the scooter mindset. There aren't many large scooter offerings in the US.

skipper20 wrote:The Scooter gods have decreed that my lot in life is to own but 2 scooters. I already have a 2012 Buddy 170i which I dearly love but as you all know it has its limitations as far as a serious open road go anywhere type touring scooter is concerned. What would be your recommendations for that type of scoot with the only limitations that it weigh under 350 lbs and have a CVT. I say under 350 lbs. as a few years back I owned a Yamaha Majesty 400 scooter (the perfect tourer) but at 400+ lbs. it was just a bit too heavy for my 70+ year old body. So, recommendations anyone? To keep the weight down I'm thinking something in the 300 - 350cc engine size would work but I'm definitely open minded on the subject. In any event, Happy Holidays to all,

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in AZ
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"

If you can deal with about 370 lbs., a used Honda Helix might be a good match. Given that it has a really low seat height and center of gravity, it doesn't require very much leg strength to hold it up. Rig it up with an aftermarket backrest, and it's about as comfortable as they come. Extremely reliable, will do at least an honest 70, and parts are easy to find.

I regret selling mine and will be looking to get another just as soon as I sell the CB.

Well, I own a Buddy, a GTS 250 Vespa (now a sidecar tug), and a Piaggio BV 350. I enjoy longer distance touring - mostly on 2 lane byways. I find that the BV 350 does that quite well (actually the BV can handle any kind of highway riding). A GTS is certainly capable of rural road touring as well, but I find that I like the larger wheels of the BV, greater power output, better suspension, and more streamlined windscreen for that kind of riding. And, the BV 350 holds it's own with any other 250-500cc scooter.

Dooglas wrote:Well, I own a Buddy, a GTS 250 Vespa (now a sidecar tug), and a Piaggio BV 350. I enjoy longer distance touring - mostly on 2 lane byways. I find that the BV 350 does that quite well (actually the BV can handle any kind of highway riding). A GTS is certainly capable of rural road touring as well, but I find that I like the larger wheels of the BV, greater power output, better suspension, and more streamlined windscreen for that kind of riding. And, the BV 350 holds it's own with any other 250-500cc scooter.

Thanks to you and the others who have also responded. I should have also mentioned in my original post that while it's not overwhelmingly important, the bike should have fuel injection rather than a carburetor as I do like my 170i's FI system. Re. the Piaggio BV 350 I like the way it looks and it seems to fit my specs. Is it safe to assume that it replaced the BV 300? That was a nice looking bike as well. I like the traditional round headlight look rather than the current twin shark eyes that most modern scooters have. Call me old-fashioned if you will. It's OK.

Bill in Seattle currently wintering in AZ
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"

neotrotsky wrote:I personally think that the only limitations to a bike for touring is what YOUR body will take. The 170i can handle long distance riding no problem and, like the rest of the Genuine line, has proven to be rock solid reliable for 4-stroke bikes in general. As for a "touring" scooter, I would think that the only scooter type bike that fits that is a sliverwing or majesty considering ther long wheel base. But, those have a very "old man barcalounger" feel to them. The Scarabeos have some fine touring kit setups and are closer to the scooter mindset. There aren't many large scooter offerings in the US.

Any scooter is a great touring scooter. You just have to adapt your routing.

You might want to give the new SYM RV-200 a look. Also, a used HD-200 would also make a pretty good tourer.

I would add that the used Helix is also a good idea. They are numerour and can generally be found fairly easily. They have a ton of cargo space and lots of accessories available on the market.

Howard

Stitch wrote:Any scooter is a great touring scooter. You just have to adapt your routing.

skipper20 wrote:Re. the Piaggio BV 350 I like the way it looks and it seems to fit my specs. Is it safe to assume that it replaced the BV 300?

Yes, the 350 engine is replacing the 300 in the Piaggio and Aprilia line ups. In the US it effectively replaces the BV and Scarabeo 500s as well, as those models have been discontinued. Pretty good replacement for the 300 as the HP jumps from 22 to 33. Also much reduced maintenance requirements from the earlier engines. An interesting direction for Piaggio and, for the moment , out in front of the competition.

charlie55 wrote:

skipper20 wrote:The Scooter gods have decreed that my lot in life is to own but 2 scooters. I already have a 2012 Buddy 170i which I dearly love but as you all know it has its limitations as far as a serious open road go anywhere type touring scooter is concerned. What would be your recommendations for that type of scoot with the only limitations that it weigh under 350 lbs and have a CVT. I say under 350 lbs. as a few years back I owned a Yamaha Majesty 400 scooter (the perfect tourer) but at 400+ lbs. it was just a bit too heavy for my 70+ year old body. So, recommendations anyone? To keep the weight down I'm thinking something in the 300 - 350cc engine size would work but I'm definitely open minded on the subject. In any event, Happy Holidays to all,

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in AZ
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"

If you can deal with about 370 lbs., a used Honda Helix might be a good match. Given that it has a really low seat height and center of gravity, it doesn't require very much leg strength to hold it up. Rig it up with an aftermarket backrest, and it's about as comfortable as they come. Extremely reliable, will do at least an honest 70, and parts are easy to find.

I regret selling mine and will be looking to get another just as soon as I sell the CB.

I second the Helix!

There's a one owner '86 helix for sale here, $1050. I almost bit, even though I just dumped a good amount into the Kymco. They're just cool.

That being said, I also want a BV350, right now .

Dooglas wrote:

skipper20 wrote:Re. the Piaggio BV 350 I like the way it looks and it seems to fit my specs. Is it safe to assume that it replaced the BV 300?

Yes, the 350 engine is replacing the 300 in the Piaggio and Aprilia line ups. In the US it effectively replaces the BV and Scarabeo 500s as well, as those models have been discontinued. Pretty good replacement for the 300 as the HP jumps from 22 to 33. Also much reduced maintenance requirements from the earlier engines. An interesting direction for Piaggio and, for the moment , out in front of the competition.

I'm a fan of the engineering in the BV350 but in execution, the scooter just doesn't fit me well. The ergonomics are a bit… specific. Even with a mere 30" inseam, I felt a bit cramped on it, as if my knees were up too high.

Hoping this engine and transmission starts showing up in other scoots in 2014. There are a lot of rumors about the next generation of the GTS—possibly a longer body with the BV engine and tranny, in a 350cc and a 500cc.

Well a common problem for the smaller displacement "touring" bikes is that the have larger tires for high speed stability and the ability to deal roughness on the roads at higher speeds. The manufacturers want to keep interior cargo capacity so you end up with seats that are too high and/or have weird bumps in them. So people are shaving or having the seats shaved on their Vespa GTS 300s, their Piaggio BV 350s, or their Blur SS 220i's.
I'm 67 and I'm some what embarrassed by the 64 year old woman who whips around on a BV350.
I kind of wish Genuine would make Buddy 170i with 12 to 14 inch wheels but trim the seat down to original Buddy height. I also want pony, a camera, and a sleazy 45 year old blonde for Christmas....with instruction manuals.

Ponies don't need instruction manuals.

TVB wrote:Ponies don't need instruction manuals.

Ummm well that might be true for some ponies and some pony owners, but maybe not all... R

ericalm wrote:The ergonomics are a bit… specific. Even with a mere 30" inseam, I felt a bit cramped on it, as if my knees were up too high.

Hoping this engine and transmission starts showing up in other scoots in 2014. There are a lot of rumors about the next generation of the GTS—possibly a longer body with the BV engine and tranny, in a 350cc and a 500cc.

I'll have to try more sitting then. I too have a 30" inseam. I also have shortish arms, but fairly built, so it's tough to find long-term comfort. the people 250 is fine except for that seat, since I can't slide my butt back.

If they do make them into the gts and such, I'm all ears. minimum it would probably be 2014 before I can consider such things, if ever.

toadold wrote:Well a common problem for the smaller displacement "touring" bikes is that the have larger tires for high speed stability and the ability to deal roughness on the roads at higher speeds. The manufacturers want to keep interior cargo capacity so you end up with seats that are too high and/or have weird bumps in them. So people are shaving or having the seats shaved on their Vespa GTS 300s, their Piaggio BV 350s, or their Blur SS 220i's.
I'm 67 and I'm some what embarrassed by the 64 year old woman who whips around on a BV350.
I kind of wish Genuine would make Buddy 170i with 12 to 14 inch wheels but trim the seat down to original Buddy height. I also want pony, a camera, and a sleazy 45 year old blonde for Christmas....with instruction manuals.

Skip the instruction manuals and get Fifty shades of Grey trilogy I think Amazon has a sale going

I'm a firm believer in the right tool for the job and the right machine for the ride. You can force fit most anything to get things done ... but what really matters, to me, is maximizing the pleasure and enjoyment with the ride. Only you can decide what will work for you and is within your means.

All that being said, to date, I've only seriously considered one maxi-scoot, one that I thought would work for me for touring or longer rides. The Aprilia Scarabeo 500. I was turned onto this from this earlier MB thread
topic8864.html



Rob

The Scarabeo 500 (and it's sister, the BV 500) have been discontinued in the US. That is a mixed blessing, of course. You can certainly negotiate a good price on one still sitting on a dealer's floor. The 'Beo is a good ride in my opinion, but a bit heavier than the OP was looking for.

The Beo 500 (second gen pictured above) carries it weight VERY low.The center of gravity of a bike is one thing they always negate to mention when discussing the pros and cons of different models. The Beo 500 is a fantastic scooter and it's very easy to handle unless you're pretty short.

what a shame. the only BIG scoot ('beo 500) i would consider over a MC, and now its gone. man, scooters and the U.S just don't mate well

i don't get it?

the bv350 is replacing the 500. It has fairly close specs, but gets a lot better mileage and uses a lot newer tech. Having ridden both, the 350 wins for a lot of reasons.

The 170i has limits?! Please don't tell mine that, or it might stop taking me on many multiple hundred mile voyages!

ericalm wrote:Hoping this engine and transmission starts showing up in other scoots in 2014. There are a lot of rumors about the next generation of the GTS—possibly a longer body with the BV engine and tranny, in a 350cc and a 500cc.

I'm all for a ripping Vespa GT350, but I'm having no trouble picturing a 33 HP Vespa shredding any of the current 12 inch rear scooter tires. Is there any evidence that the tire manufacturers are working on a tire solution?

Dooglas wrote:The Scarabeo 500 (and it's sister, the BV 500) have been discontinued in the US. That is a mixed blessing, of course. You can certainly negotiate a good price on one still sitting on a dealer's floor. The 'Beo is a good ride in my opinion, but a bit heavier than the OP was looking for.

That's discouraging ... I didn't realize that it was discontinued. The biggest reason I hadn't pulled the trigger as of yet was my wife's concern with the weight factor. And somehow I missed the OP's weight criteria. I'm not sure how much the 500 weighs, but I've ridden it, and it seems light enough to me and well balanced.

Rob

Capt_Don wrote:The 170i has limits?! Please don't tell mine that, or it might stop taking me on many multiple hundred mile voyages!

I've done the same with the 125. I think my max is a little over 400 miles in a day. But to me, I'd much rather take one of the bigger bikes on the long rides. I also prefer the scoot around town or on shorter rides. Again, personal preference.

This reminds me of a movie made several years back about an old guy (I think Richard Farnsworth was the actor) riding his lawn mower across 2 or 3 midwestern states. I don't remember the name of the movie or his motivation for this road trip, but it worked for him.

Rob

Rob wrote:This reminds me of a movie made several years back about an old guy (I think Richard Farnsworth was the actor) riding his lawn mower across 2 or 3 midwestern states. I don't remember the name of the movie or his motivation for this road trip, but it worked for him.

The film was, The Straight Story, directed by David Lynch, and I believe you've hit the nail right on the proverbial head. That's exactly what it's like to ride a small scooter on a long trip. It's quixotic, at best, but doing the improbable has a way of bringing out the best (and the worst) in the rider (and the scooter).

Wan Lee + Honda Ruckus = 18K plus round the US. Guy's a legend in the Ruckus community and proof that no bike is too small.

jrsjr wrote:I'm all for a ripping Vespa GT350, but I'm having no trouble picturing a 33 HP Vespa shredding any of the current 12 inch rear scooter tires. Is there any evidence that the tire manufacturers are working on a tire solution?

I'm not so sure that is a problem easily solved by a tire manufacturer. The BV 350 uses a 16" front wheel and 14" rear wheel. That probably is the engineering solution to rapid tire wear with a higher HP engine. Piaggio/Vespa is letting themselves be pushed into a corner with all this pressure for a 350 Vespa. With 50% more HP, you really start to bump up against several problems - the small wheels, the front suspension, the brakes, and the steering on the existing GTS. After you upgrade all these things, do you still have something that looks like a Vespa? After all, the modern Vespa is really a look. If you change it too much, what do you have? We'll see what they do, but my guess is it won't be easy - and many of us may not like the result.

skipper20 wrote:The Scooter gods have decreed that my lot in life is to own but 2 scooters. I already have a 2012 Buddy 170i which I dearly love but as you all know it has its limitations as far as a serious open road go anywhere type touring scooter is concerned. What would be your recommendations for that type of scoot with the only limitations that it weigh under 350 lbs and have a CVT. I say under 350 lbs. as a few years back I owned a Yamaha Majesty 400 scooter (the perfect tourer) but at 400+ lbs. it was just a bit too heavy for my 70+ year old body. So, recommendations anyone? To keep the weight down I'm thinking something in the 300 - 350cc engine size would work but I'm definitely open minded on the subject. In any event, Happy Holidays to all,

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in AZ
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"

I was recently shopping for my first scooter so I have a lot of notes. I got a Buddy 170i because it was small and light and there was a good deal on a local one, but from reading the reviews of it I could see that it probably wasn't something I'd want to take for more than a few miles on a 55mph highway. I was looking for fuel injection and watching the weights because I want to be able to carry it on a hitch mounted rack. The scooters that I had on my list for being more highway/freeway capable (bigger engine and/or larger tires) were:

55+mph Highway (280-320lbs): Genuine Blur 220i, Kymco Yager 200GTi, Honda 2010 SH150i, Honda 2013 PCX150, Sym HD 200.

70+mph Freeway (330-370lbs): People GT 300i, Aprila SportCity Cube 250/300, Vespa GTS 300, Piaggio BV250/300

Based on stats and reviews I'd suggest you consider the Kymco People GT 300i.

The primary websites I was using to research the scooters were:
http://motorscooterguide.net
http://www.justgottascoot.com/reviews.htm

Once I am more comfortable with exploring the limits of my 170i I may end up wanting to get a light touring machine so I'll be interested in what other people have to say about the available options.

Dooglas wrote:I'm not so sure that is a problem easily solved by a tire manufacturer.

I didn't say it would be easy. Seriously, for me, this is just a case of history repeating. This is EXACTLY what happened in the world of motorcycling in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If you want to see a classic example, read up on the history of the Münch Mammut motorcycle. That thing was so far ahead of the tires of its time that it wasn't funny. They took one to Daytona in 1970 and ran it around and it ate a rear tire every four laps. That bike made a screaming 125 HP! Wow! You can go to a motorcycle dealership today and buy a bike that makes 40, 50 or even 60 more horsepower than that stock! Think about it. Frame, suspension, and brake technology have obviously advanced since then, but the big technological advance has been in tire technology. That's why I was not being snarky at all when I asked if the tire companies are on the job, because the other problems are, IMHO, solvable. The Vespa monocoque frame will have to be braced internally (and maybe thicker). The front suspension parts will have to be larger, more carefully engineered pieces made from lighter-weight materials to keep unsprung weight down. The brakes, especially the front brakes, are going to have to be upgraded, but there are off-the-shelf parts that could do that job tomorrow. Not so with 12" rear scooter tires...

Kymco Downtown 300i. it is slightly lighter than the people, seat height is lower also.

It eats the Interstate. I did Minneapolis to Atlanta and back ~3000mi total and it was all smooth sailing. I had no problems navigating the mountain roads in TN, KY, GA, OK. And was able to keep up with Atlanta traffic (80mph) no problem.


-duo

jrsjr wrote:

Rob wrote:This reminds me of a movie made several years back about an old guy (I think Richard Farnsworth was the actor) riding his lawn mower across 2 or 3 midwestern states. I don't remember the name of the movie or his motivation for this road trip, but it worked for him.

The film was, The Straight Story, directed by David Lynch, and I believe you've hit the nail right on the proverbial head. That's exactly what it's like to ride a small scooter on a long trip. It's quixotic, at best, but doing the improbable has a way of bringing out the best (and the worst) in the rider (and the scooter).

Good memory .... that would be it. I have to admit that I sometimes let me my wander off into territories such as this. I thought I might someday do the full Appalachian trail, all 2000+ miles of it. Thank God for authors such as Bill Bryson to bring me back to reality.

Rob

Vortechs wrote:I was recently shopping for my first scooter so I have a lot of notes. I got a Buddy 170i because it was small and light and there was a good deal on a local one, but from reading the reviews of it I could see that it probably wasn't something I'd want to take for more than a few miles on a 55mph highway.

Don't tell BootScootin' Firefighter or That Scooter Guy that.

(See the most recently completed Scooter Cannonball for the capabilities of the Buddy.)