Black Jack 150 or Yamaha Zuma 125?

[skipper20]

Assuming prices are about the same, which one would you buy and why?

Bill in Seattle but currently wintering in AZ
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"

[SYMbionic Duo]

The Blackjack for the looks and good dependable stock performance.

The Zuma if i wanted to go stupid fast with a bunch of performance accessories, or if there wasn't a genuine dealer nearby and i didn't want to do maintenance/ repairs myself.


-duo

[mattgordon]

First scootered in Des Moines, WA.

Back in the, well back a few.

Lived next to the Quartermaster store at the marina. Damn had some good times there on my QT-50 and Elite 180!
(they werent vintage scooters then)

[skipper20]

The Blackjack for the looks and good dependable stock performance.

The Zuma if i wanted to go stupid fast with a bunch of performance accessories, or if there wasn't a genuine dealer nearby and i didn't want to do maintenance/ repairs myself.

-duo

So, what performance accessories would make the Zuma 125 go "stupid fast" and how would this compare with a stock Black Jack's top end? TIA,

Bill

[Skootz Kabootz]

I say the Blackjack. I've ridden alongside both and the Blackjack is just capable of more. Those extra 25cc's make quite a difference, plus you have the upgraded suspension and brakes. It's no contest IMHO.

[JHScoot]

I say the Blackjack. I've ridden alongside both and the Blackjack is just capable of more. Those extra 25cc's make quite a difference, plus you have the upgraded suspension and brakes. It's no contest IMHO.

stock i would go with the blackjack. depending on how much you are willing to spend on modding the zuma, i would give it serious consideration. also if a fi zuma it may be very capable. even more so then the blackjack in some instances

i own a bj now and rode it for 1800 miles b4 i owned it. it accelerates fast for a scooter (Buddy's tend to) and has good midrange. it pulls up hills fairly well. my absolute top speed has been around 60mph. i weigh 240, though. doesn't matter to me much as its not a freeway scoot and 50mph is a great top speed for 95% of my riding. so I am good as gold at 60mph top end or 80mph. don't matter because i am moving at most 45mph to 55mph when riding in 35mph to 45mph speed zones

the bj is a hoot to ride. comes with upgraded brakes and suspension already installed. has a huge horn, too. it looks unique on the road because it is, and it gets a lot of looks "how much" "how fast" and "where can i get one" questions. its absolutely stable and sporty to ride

zuma? idk i have no first hand experience. i know it looks different. and as said the fuel injected models are said to have guts the carb models did not. but a large tuner community exists for the carb model, so its easy to upgrade. for the fi model? not sure what kind of things you can upgrade on fuel injected models? but i have seen a few around lowered, different handlebars, pipes, suspension pieces...mods galore


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[thatvwbusguy]

Since you are posting on a Buddy site, I think you already know what the majority of the answers will be. The best thing you can possibly do is ride both and see what you think.

I rode a bunch of scooters including the Buddy 125 (there were no Black Jack's available locally) and decided the Zuma 125 was the way to go for me. It fits me much better (I'm 5'11"), has a tougher frame design, way more performance accessories if you want to mod, 12" dual sport tires, dual headlights for safer night driving and as mentioned, electronic fuel injection.

To me, the Buddy feels almost fragile in comparison.

Don't take my word for it though, I am just a stranger on a forum. Go and ride them both and make your decision based on your own observations.

Good luck finding your new ride!

[sc00ter]

I own both a 08 Buddy 125 (wifes) and a 09 Zuma 125 (mine). The Zuma has been bulletproof for 24,000miles but Im getting rid of it and bought a 07 Buddy 125. The Zuma not only looks terrible from sitting outside, I use these things for cheap transpotation, it started giving me fuel injection problems that I have no interest in trying to fix. The 07 Buddy that I bought to replace the Zuma has 28,000miles on it and has never missed a beat. Zuma is more solid feeling and the bigger wheels are much nicer on rough streets. Also, modding is not that hard. My Zuma has a 155bbk and a LeoVince exhaust. Overall I missed having a kickstarter (Zuma has left me stranded a few times) and the ability to run heated gloves (hand guards dont cut it) since the Zuma has a cost-point stator on it.

[JHScoot]

i also think size is something you might take into consideration. the Buddy is on the small end of small scooters. certainly bigger then a 50cc like the Honda 'Met but smaller then something like a Vespa 150 and certainly the Zuma with its 12in wheels and longer rear faring. knee room, foot to ground distance, and a bit of comfort in the seating position over longish rides come into play, too

i mean they are scooters, not cars. so neither will ride like a Caddy. but there is some difference. however personally riding on my 12in wheeled Agility 125 feels more upright and full size scoot. the bj again, small and sporty in feel and character

[Skootz Kabootz]

One other thing to consider — I'm not sure what your local laws are, but here in CA a 150cc is freeway legal, a 125cc is not. So if you want to have the option of riding on a freeway from time to time, you'll want the 150cc.

[thatvwbusguy]

The idea of trading a newer fuel injected scooter for an older carbureted scooter to increase dependability is an exercise in futility to say the very least.

Approximately 10-15% of all 2009 Zuma 125's imported into the US marketplace had problems with the fuel pump from the manufacturer. This was not enough units to prompt a full product recall, but if you contact the dealer you bought your Zuma 125 from and ask about a technical service bulletin for the 2009 fuel pump, you may get some happy news. Many people have gotten a new pump free of charge from Yamaha service.

Take a moment to consider how many major automotive companies offer widely released cars with carburetors these days. You will come up with a total of zero in the US marketplace. The last of the carburetors used in vehicles designed for daily driving left the factory in the 1980s if not sooner.

Likewise, almost every touring motorcycle that is designed to be ridden long distances is equipped with EFI. There is a simple reason for this design factor. Fuel injection is more dependable and results in less maintenance per mile driven/ridden. If this was not the case, manufacturers would still be offering the far cheaper carburetor based fuel system on their vehicles.

To the original poster, please try to ride both scooters in person before making a choice on which to buy. If you would like to balance the tally on the votes, take a moment an post the same question over at www.zumaforums.com. You will most likely get some very informed answers from the members there.

Genuine/PGO is a great importer/manufacturer and rightfully has a loyal following of enthusiasts. They are not a major manufacturer like Honda or Yamaha however and do not have the same engineering and design capabilities, nor the deep pockets to offer leading edge technologies.

[JHScoot]

i like your posts thatvwbusguy and most of what you say is correct to one degree or another. but as you know we are talking about a blackjack here, not just a regular Buddy, or Zuma for that matter

a Buddy is a somewhat emotional buy, and i would not let something like FI or better engineering and R&D from other manufacturers keep me from one. nor would more frequent maintenance keep me from one over an FI Honda or Yamaha. all that goes so far, and as you know i have represented the Zuma pretty well in this thread, if not as informed as you. BUT, i would still rather own the bj and ride the bj stock then just about any other small scooter STOCK. the Zuma and something like the Honda PCX 150 are really good scooters, but they aren't this and couldn't be even if someone tried, most likely. aesthetics, style, and looks count. couple that with the scoots great performance and GOOD reliability, and FI and japanese engineering go just so far :

[Whimscootie]

The idea of trading a newer fuel injected scooter for an older carbureted scooter to increase dependability is an exercise in futility to say the very least.

Approximately 10-15% of all 2009 Zuma 125's imported into the US marketplace had problems with the fuel pump from the manufacturer. This was not enough units to prompt a full product recall, but if you contact the dealer you bought your Zuma 125 from and ask about a technical service bulletin for the 2009 fuel pump, you may get some happy news. Many people have gotten a new pump free of charge from Yamaha service.

Take a moment to consider how many major automotive companies offer widely released cars with carburetors these days. You will come up with a total of zero in the US marketplace. The last of the carburetors used in vehicles designed for daily driving left the factory in the 1980s if not sooner.

Likewise, almost every touring motorcycle that is designed to be ridden long distances is equipped with EFI. There is a simple reason for this design factor. Fuel injection is more dependable and results in less maintenance per mile driven/ridden. If this was not the case, manufacturers would still be offering the far cheaper carburetor based fuel system on their vehicles.

To the original poster, please try to ride both scooters in person before making a choice on which to buy. If you would like to balance the tally on the votes, take a moment an post the same question over at www.zumaforums.com. You will most likely get some very informed answers from the members there.

Genuine/PGO is a great importer/manufacturer and rightfully has a loyal following of enthusiasts. They are not a major manufacturer like Honda or Yamaha however and do not have the same engineering and design capabilities, nor the deep pockets to offer leading edge technologies.

EFI is "not all that". I had a Honda Elite 110 with EFI and it could not match my Met for acceleration and getting up to it's max speed.

Plus, no kickstarter as back-up.

I lust over the BJ and would snatch one up in a minute if there was one available and the price was right.

[thatvwbusguy]

Everyone's idea of what is stylish is different. As my user name suggests, I really like old VW's. Plenty of people tell me with great conviction that they think they are the ugliest pieces of junk to ever disgrace the roadways. We can both be right, because in the end, it is merely a matter of personal taste. If everyone was into exactly the same stuff, the world would be a pretty boring place wouldn't it

To me, the Black Jack looks just like every other standard round headlight Chinese scooter, albeit with a sweet flat black paint job and a cool solo seat. I am sure that I would love zooming around on a BlackJack, but there is something about doing 60+ MPH on 3.5" x 10" tires that makes me feel kinda queasy inside.

Instead of regarding this as an emotional decision, I am trying to base all of my assertions on my own first hand experiences with cars, motorcycles, scooters and such over the past 25 years. I have spent most of this time doing my own mechanical and electrical work whenever possible (which is basically any time I don't need a lift to complete a repair).

For "turn the key and go" dependability, electronic fuel injection beats a carburetor hands down in my book. With properly functioning EFI, there is no need for adjustment when weather conditions or altitude change. This is not necessarily true of standard carbureted fuel systems where air / fuel ratio changes with temperature, humidity and altitude.

Drawing from personal experience with the Genuine scooter lineup, I can honestly say that my wife's Buddy 50 refuses to run well when it is less than 45F outside. Do a quick search and you will find other people here on MB in the same boat. The carb on her Buddy is clean and set up properly, it just doesn't like cold weather. An adjustment to the air / fuel ratio would probably yield acceptable results (unless it is an issue with venturi icing). The reality of the situation is that she is very unlikely to ride when it is that cool outside anyway, so it's not a deal breaker for her the way it would be for me. I don't typically put the bikes away until the 1st snowfall and then I try to get them back out of storage as soon as the salt is gone in the spring. Riding home from work in the morning with ice crystals in my beard is a fairly common experience for me...

[TVB]

Drawing from personal experience with the Genuine scooter lineup, I can honestly say that my wife's Buddy 50 refuses to run well when it is less than 45F outside. Do a quick search and you will find other people here on MB in the same boat.

Not my experience, however. It's a harder start, and it doesn't run as well as it does at 70ºF, but I've ridden mine below freezing.

None of which is particularly relevant in talking about the Buddy 125, as it's a different engine.

[lancerman]

The idea of trading a newer fuel injected scooter for an older carbureted scooter to increase dependability is an exercise in futility to say the very least.



Take a moment to consider how many major automotive companies offer widely released cars with carburetors these days. You will come up with a total of zero in the US marketplace. The last of the carburetors used in vehicles designed for daily driving left the factory in the 1980s if not sooner.

Likewise, almost every touring motorcycle that is designed to be ridden long distances is equipped with EFI. There is a simple reason for this design factor. Fuel injection is more dependable and results in less maintenance per mile driven/ridden. If this was not the case, manufacturers would still be offering the far cheaper carburetor based fuel system on their vehicles.



.

I disagree with your FI statements. carbs are far more reliable , cheaper to produce. usa may have fazed out carb use to favor cleaner air quality with fuel injection, but other countries have not. philippines cars and trucks on the road must be 90% carberated. you may prefer FI but I and many others would prefer a carb on a scooter. cheap simple fun gets cloudy fast when you ad FI to the mix.