Modern Buddy

Hi, I know that this may have been answered before, but is the US going to get an automatic Stella sometime soon??? Maybe bigger than a 150?? Does anyone with an connection to Genuine Scooters or that is in the know heard of such a thing??? Thank you all for looking and answering these questions, Terri

http://www.scooterfile.com/sf-feature/a ... x-rumored/

It looks like if we actually do get it here, it will be a 125cc.

I'd rather see the LML Star 200 here.
It's a shifty but 200cc.

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Tocsik wrote:I'd rather see the LML Star 200 here.
It's a shifty but 200cc.

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I want one of the 200s as well. However, sales on the 4T 150s has been glacial. I suspect part of it is the pricing (over $4K out the door in most places) as much as the "fear of shifting". From that POV, I think the 200er is not going to make it here under the Genuine marque.

I suspect that we'll see a 150cc automatic when it arrives. It's GY6 based, so don't hold your hopes up for anything over 180cc. A 250cc auto Stella would need liquid cooling and a place to hide the radiator.

I think they could incorporate a radiator into the leg shield and make it look just fine. But, you're right. It's too much effort to engineer something and get a poor return from sales. In the end, you can get a decent cc motorcycle pretty cheap. I just saw a 2009 Yamaha V-Star 250 with 2600 miles go for $2800.
I'll be buying in a year or two and will most likely end up with some sort of standard MC; Bonneville or TU250. Maybe even a Versys or VStrom. Something where you sit upright but not a cruiser. I think any scooters over 150cc are priced out of line with motorcycle sales.

toot wrote:Hi, I know that this may have been answered before, but is the US going to get an automatic Stella sometime soon??? Maybe bigger than a 150?? Does anyone with an connection to Genuine Scooters or that is in the know heard of such a thing??? Thank you all for looking and answering these questions, Terri

Why an automatic? I always thought that the charm of a Stella, even though I don't own one, was its 4 speed left hand grip manual shifter. I've even thought about getting one as my gimpy left leg now has a problem foot shifting MC style my '83 Honda 110 trail bike. Anyone out there like to do a trade? I'm even OK with a 2 stroke. I mean, how retro can you get!

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia "The Olive Pit"
'83 Honda CT110 Trail Monza Red w/1265 orig. miles

Auto Stella is because I have arthritis in hand and can not pull shift lever and shift. I also would like a steel body. Thank you for all the replies so far. Terri

az_slynch wrote:However, sales on the 4T 150s has been glacial.

Are sales of 4T stellas really that slow? Here in Chicago, there are Stellas all over the place.

Tocsik wrote:I'd rather see the LML Star 200 here.
It's a shifty but 200cc.

A twisty 200 would be the best of both worlds imho.

By the video it certainly doesn't look like they changed anything on the basic (LML) Stella 4T, except for increasing the engine size from 150 to 200cc. The mirrors still seem useless, the ride didn't get any smoother, and the super low gearing in 1st and 2nd appears the same. I wonder if the larger engine could simply be a bolt-on replacement for the existing one? An extra 50ccs would be nice.

Wild Handyman wrote:By the video it certainly doesn't look like they changed anything on the basic (LML) Stella 4T, except for increasing the engine size from 150 to 200cc. The mirrors still seem useless, the ride didn't get any smoother, and the super low gearing in 1st and 2nd appears the same. I wonder if the larger engine could simply be a bolt-on replacement for the existing one? An extra 50ccs would be nice.

I like the way you think.

The 150cc seems a little under powered to me now that I have one. I don't mind the shifting, but I do wish it was a little bit faster. An auto Stella would be great if it were a 200cc...

I'll put in my vote for the auto Stella 200 cc and for the shifty version 200 cc for those who want the manual. That would be the best of both worlds.

I wouldn't hold my breath for the 200cc to ever be automatic because from what I understand they had enough trouble fitting the CVT into the Stella's body (they originally were going with a PK body, which is smaller, but the project was abandoned and they went with the Stella 4T's new frame).

I also think there is a good chance the auto-Stella in the US will be a 150, the 125cc limit is made for the European market where people have to ride a 125 before moving to something bigger. The 150 engine should be the same except for the cylinder and as such it'll make sense for them to bring the 150 to the US. That said I expect whatever auto-stella to be faster than the current geared ones due to the low first and second gear in the manual models, the CVT should give it a big edge in any situation short of climbing a mountain.


In regards to the sale of the 4T stella, yes they have been really slow since it lost a lot of the classic appeal that came from the 2T engine and it didn't gain any new fans due to the shifting. The scooter market is small as it is and while the Stella has its own niche it's not a big enough one in the US compared to Europe.

That said I would totally own the fuel injected 4T Stella as my commuter. I do believe it uses taller gearing (similar to a PX200).

Ah, a 4T fuel injected CVT Stella???? And presumably add a few more dollars to the cost of the 4T shifty? Aren't we talking modern Vespa? If so, no reason to wait .

Here's the main reason I think they won't do a 200cc CVT in the US: It'll cost too much on both ends.

An auto Stella 125/150 could do very well if they can get QC in order and keep the cost reasonable. Demand for a auto, classic-styled metal scoot is pretty good. It's what new buyers say they want.

Demand for 200cc scooters of any type pretty much sucks. It's a small segment of the overall market. Sure, if you ask people who already own scooters, they'll say they want one. But they, and the few new buyers who will care about 200s vs. 150s probably wouldn't pay $5K for one and aren't a big enough market to make it worthwhile.

Ask people who don't own scooters what they want and they'll usually reply with something very reasonable. Ask people who do own one: flying unicorn.

Wild Handyman wrote:By the video it certainly doesn't look like they changed anything on the basic (LML) Stella 4T, except for increasing the engine size from 150 to 200cc. The mirrors still seem useless, the ride didn't get any smoother, and the super low gearing in 1st and 2nd appears the same. I wonder if the larger engine could simply be a bolt-on replacement for the existing one? An extra 50ccs would be nice.

I have heard that this is true. Someone told me there was someone in the UK that would sell you a LML 200 engine and that they are a direct bolt on for the Stella 4T. Not sure how importing that through customs in the US would be....

Maximus53 wrote:

Wild Handyman wrote:By the video it certainly doesn't look like they changed anything on the basic (LML) Stella 4T, except for increasing the engine size from 150 to 200cc. The mirrors still seem useless, the ride didn't get any smoother, and the super low gearing in 1st and 2nd appears the same. I wonder if the larger engine could simply be a bolt-on replacement for the existing one? An extra 50ccs would be nice.

I have heard that this is true. Someone told me there was someone in the UK that would sell you a LML 200 engine and that they are a direct bolt on for the Stella 4T. Not sure how importing that through customs in the US would be....

you ship it in separate packages as either a gift or pre-owned equipment, voilla', no taxes.

And the flying unicorn carrying batman while riding a tricycle strikes again...

ericalm wrote:Ask people who don't own scooters what they want and they'll usually reply with something very reasonable. Ask people who do own one: flying unicorn.

Are we that transparent?

Syd wrote:

ericalm wrote:Ask people who don't own scooters what they want and they'll usually reply with something very reasonable. Ask people who do own one: flying unicorn.

Are we that transparent?

I dunno, all I want is the 200cc FI manual Stella that's already for sale in Italy...

Drum Pro wrote:And the flying unicorn carrying batman while riding a tricycle strikes again...

I think it's becoming the Godwin's Law analogue of Modern Buddy. Eventually, somebody's gotta bring up that fricken unicorn.

If money were no issue, I would get a Vespa (300 ), but I really like Genuine Scooter Quality, the 2 year warranty, the low cost maintenance. I just thought that since they have a 220 engine in the Blur that they could put one in the Stella. That tells you how much I know . Oh well, maybe one day they will see the light and realize that there are people in the US that like classic scooters that have power and move faster than 50 . Thank you for all your comments.

toot wrote:If money were no issue, I would get a Vespa (300 ), but I really like Genuine Scooter Quality, the 2 year warranty, the low cost maintenance. I just thought that since they have a 220 engine in the Blur that they could put one in the Stella. That tells you how much I know . Oh well, maybe one day they will see the light and realize that there are people in the US that like classic scooters that have power and move faster than 50 . Thank you for all your comments.

Genuine is only the distributor for the Stella and the Buddy/ Blur.
The Stella is built by LML out of India and the Buddy/ Blur by PGO out of Taiwan.
2 completely different companies, so no chance of seeing the Blur engine on a Stella.

I dunno.....just kind of musing here..... I think LML would do well to send the 200 over here.
I think it would do well from the standpoint of all the old Vespa 200e gang would finally have something they could replace their old steeds with.
It would do well because I believe the nutcases that like their Stella (that would be me, BTW) would be drawn to a machine that still has some of the charm from the past but has a bit more flexibility from a power standpoint......and it would be able to haul a hack a bit easier as well.

Since the 200 is being sold already, and it is a clean sheet engine (shares nothing with the 4t 150) one would think that it would be wise from a amatorization standpoint as well......Maybe the reason is the EPA expense for testing is blocking it......Possibly the expense for EPA'ing the 150 hasn't been covered yet.

Just seems like a strange way to do business when you are already hammering out a product that seems to be desired in a market (that would be the U.S.) you already do business in.

Oh, well.....my 2T is doing just fine.....but a 200 4T would succeed in getting me to crack my wallet.....again.

Rob

While my opinion on this is not popular, it is one I'm pretty clear on:

People want the fashion of "vintage" but they don't want the work. They want it easy and with as little thought or skill as possible.

Sure, some cite medical issues and others cite "market trends", but what it REALLY comes down to is that there are people who don't want to learn how to ride a motorbike the way it was originally designed and want someone else to make it easier for them, so they the rider have to put forth as little effort as possible.

It's why vintage scooters are so "fashionable" but you rarely see fashionable people riding them. It's because they're not a point-and-click machine. They actually take effort and skill... and that's what makes them fun! This constant push for automatic everything kills what the Stella is all about. Besides, someone had to pick up the P/PX scooter when Vespa discontinued the model and I'm glad they did.

I rank it up to the same crowd who wants a "mini" but one big enough for soccer practice crap for the kids. Or the ones who were all excited about the "new beetle" when it was just a warmed over, heavier golf and had NOTHING to do with the original beetle... at three times the price.

neotrotsky wrote:While my opinion on this is not popular, it is one I'm pretty clear on:
People want the fashion of "vintage" but they don't want the work. They want it easy and with as little thought or skill as possible.

I personally think that is a reasonable and likely argument. The Stella appeals to a small circle of riders as a true vintage design. That comes at some costs that will never allow that circle to expand too much. Talking about more power, CVT transmissions, fuel injection (heck, why not liquid cooling ) really doesn't change that picture very much. The Stella is a true classic, but that means you have to live with it's quirks including modest performance, dated mechanicals, and fairly high maintenance. If you want a slick modern design with a more efficient engine and longer service intervals, well.........

Dooglas wrote:

neotrotsky wrote:While my opinion on this is not popular, it is one I'm pretty clear on:
People want the fashion of "vintage" but they don't want the work. They want it easy and with as little thought or skill as possible.

I personally think that is a reasonable and likely argument. The Stella appeals to a small circle of riders as a true vintage design. That comes at some costs that will never allow that circle to expand too much. Talking about more power, CVT transmissions, fuel injection (heck, why not liquid cooling ) really doesn't change that picture very much. The Stella is a true classic, but that means you have to live with it's quirks including modest performance, dated mechanicals, and fairly high maintenance. If you want a slick modern design with a more efficient engine and longer service intervals, well.........

... you go and buy a new Vespa. It has a market and that's fine. It's even full steel, all sorts of dripping with "Vintage cues" and has a price that will make you feel as exclusive as if you were riding a fully restored vintage Vespa. And yes, modern bikes have phenomenal service intervals, ease of use and a host of features for both safety and performance that you could only dream of 30 years ago. I know: I had a Vespa GTS250ie... and once I saw how impossible it was to get parts for it, how much those parts were and how difficult it was to service it by yourself I quickly remembered why I never gravitated towards those bikes much and regretted my purchase about a year afterward when problems started to crop up (because no matter how modern they make it, it's still an Italian bike with Italian quirks and the impossible 'customer service')

But MANY people love their modern Vespas, and that's awesome! To find a bike that fits you is a rare thing. And, while I do not like the direction Vespa has taken, it was a good bet for them and they have loyal customers. The Stella appeals to me greatly, since I love vintage scooters and I am finally now at a point where I can afford to own and maintain one financially. I kick myself every day for selling my Stella, and I'm counting down the days until I finally pick up my "new" smallframe project next month (finally!!!). Does that mean I will kick my Kymco to the curb?

Nope.

That's because it has a place. I bought it with that purpose in mind. I don't expect it to be a sports performer, nor do I complain that Kymco hasn't made a 250cc liquid cooled, auto-stabilizing version of the Agility. It's simply not what the bike was designed to be. Much like the Stella: It was never designed to be an automatic. It was designed in a particular era and befits that. To DEMAND that something be modified way beyond it's intention just so you could be happy and lazy (Well, not *you* per se, but the rider who demands such luxuries) seems to miss the complete point about what the bikes are about.

neotrotsky wrote:While my opinion on this is not popular, it is one I'm pretty clear on:

People want the fashion of "vintage" but they don't want the work. They want it easy and with as little thought or skill as possible.

I think that's a fairly common opinion and has a ring of truth to it. Some people are dismissive of this, but I don't see anything wrong with wanting a certain style with a certain type of functionality.

http://www.pumacycles.com/Valentine.html
Here is an automatic Stella looking scooter...problem solved!

htmldood wrote:http://www.pumacycles.com/Valentine.html
Here is an automatic Stella looking scooter...problem solved!

Well, except that one's a plastic-bodied chinascoot...and has the weirdest taillight ever.

ravenlore wrote:

htmldood wrote:http://www.pumacycles.com/Valentine.html
Here is an automatic Stella looking scooter...problem solved!

Well, except that one's a plastic-bodied chinascoot...and has the weirdest taillight ever.

The Chinese factory probably makes showerheads as well.

The Puma will likely have the same fate as the Hammerhead La Vita.

Somehow, a plastic Chinascoot copy of a classic all metal design seems to miss the point twice over .

skipper20 wrote:

toot wrote:Hi, I know that this may have been answered before, but is the US going to get an automatic Stella sometime soon??? Maybe bigger than a 150?? Does anyone with an connection to Genuine Scooters or that is in the know heard of such a thing??? Thank you all for looking and answering these questions, Terri

Why an automatic? I always thought that the charm of a Stella, even though I don't own one, was its 4 speed left hand grip manual shifter. I've even thought about getting one as my gimpy left leg now has a problem foot shifting MC style my '83 Honda 110 trail bike.

A big part of the reason I'm getting a Stella over a Sportster or Royal Enfield is that I have a poor left leg too. It's like the Stella was made for people like us.

neotrotsky wrote:
I rank it up to the same crowd who wants a "mini" but one big enough for soccer practice crap for the kids. Or the ones who were all excited about the "new beetle" when it was just a warmed over, heavier golf and had NOTHING to do with the original beetle... at three times the price.

I have to stick up for the New Beetle here. I didn't want one when they first came out in '98, I was an Air Cooled Original Beetle kind of girl (had owned 2 original Beetles and a Camper Van at that point). But, years went by and I ended up owning a '99 NB. I still own it, years later. It is a great car, low maintenance, rock solid 2.0l engine and 5 speed tranny, great gas mileage. It has nothing to do w/an original Beetle, except it's general shape and some styling cues in the interior. But that doesn't diminish the fact that it is a well built VW, just like the OG Beetle.

I see the appeal of the automatic Stella, and should they ever come to the US, I will most likely own one. The shifting doesn't scare me on my 4T Stella, but w/the kind of riding that I do it can get tedious. Keep in mind that both of my cars (both VW's, one new one vintage) are manual.

I like the looks of the Stella, it's one of the reasons that I bought one. But, had the dealer said to me "Do you want that w/an automatic or a manual?" I would've asked if I could test drive both and then gone w/the auto. Why? Because that manual tranny on the Stella is clunky and finicky. Because I live in a moutainous area and not having to constantly shift on that clunky tranny is appealiing. Because I find myself having to think about shifting on the Stella, I don't have to think about it in my cars it just comes naturally.

I'm the opposite of VWGirl in that the shifting come natural to me on the Stella. Although I do agree that it is clunky. I think the OG P/PXs were just like that though. An automatic Stella, IMO, is the way forward. Unless you only like a shifting scoot, your effectively "stuck in the past".....

Yeah well......
I've said before I chose a Buddy over a Stella because I just didn't want to shift when riding.
After 'lusting' over the Stellas since they first hit the US shores I finally recently got the chance to ride one, I was sorely disappointed. Not in the scoot mind you, in me! I was sore...!
It seems that somewhere where my wrist bone connects to my hand bone there's something miss-connected and after just a dozen or so miles I was in some exquisite pain, hand was numb and when I stopped I was just 'clubbing' at the clutch lever with an un-responsive paw......

Guess if I still want the styling I need to wait till an auto gets here.

Much as I like the Stella Kab is describing the reaction my wrist and
elbow had to shifting one. Not the bikes fault, not my fault, it just was
not a good fit for my beat up old bones. It is what it is!

Spud wrote:A big part of the reason I'm getting a Stella over a Sportster or Royal Enfield is that I have a poor left leg too. It's like the Stella was made for people like us.

With that in mind, Honda is making the CTX700D for you as well .

ravenlore wrote:

htmldood wrote:http://www.pumacycles.com/Valentine.html
Here is an automatic Stella looking scooter...problem solved!

Well, except that one's a plastic-bodied chinascoot...and has the weirdest taillight ever.

I saw one in person today. The weird taillight isn't the deal-stopper. What threw me was the stretched center body forward of the "side cowls" -- it just looked wrong. They should have stretched the "side cowls" further forward as well to keep the proportions right.

But an "automatic Stella" is a problem that's already been solved. By Vespa.

It's the LX150.

If you simply must have the thin legshield, remove the LX 150's glovebox panel and replace it with the "storage pockets" panel from a LX S150.

On the other hand, if I could get a 4-speed 4T Stella (whatever the engine size) that would go just as fast as my LX S150, I'd buy it.

No disrespect intended but after a little research on the Vespa LX & S
models I will stick to my Buddy 170i. Now days price is a big factor for
me. There is no question that the Vespa is an excellent machine but so
is the 170i. Also I don't think we will see a Stella CVT here any time soon.

Wolfhound wrote:No disrespect intended but after a little research on the Vespa LX & S
models I will stick to my Buddy 170i. Now days price is a big factor for
me. There is no question that the Vespa is an excellent machine but so
is the 170i. Also I don't think we will see a Stella CVT here any time soon.

None taken! I was specifically drawing a comparison to the Stella based on the structural design and styling, not performance as such.

In terms of value-for-money, the Buddy is one of the best out there.

Thank you. I understand and agree. The Vespa and Stella styling and
structural design is perhaps the best in the business. Were it not for
my old friend Arthur Ritus in my left wrist and elbow I would still be
riding the Stella that I traded in for the Buddy. I do like my 170i
however.

Wolfhound wrote:Thank you. I understand and agree. The Vespa and Stella styling and
structural design is perhaps the best in the business. Were it not for
my old friend Arthur Ritus in my left wrist and elbow I would still be
riding the Stella that I traded in for the Buddy. I do like my 170i
however.

Tres cool.
Sorry you're having those issues, but you've still got another great bike!

For every problem there is an answer. And growing old is inevitable, being
old is not.

Lokky wrote:

Syd wrote:

ericalm wrote:Ask people who don't own scooters what they want and they'll usually reply with something very reasonable. Ask people who do own one: flying unicorn.

Are we that transparent?

I dunno, all I want is the 200cc FI manual Stella that's already for sale in Italy...

I read this quote and thought it was the most logical thing I have read in awhile....then I saw Lokky posted it and questioned my reasoning. I'll take one too, but it won't happen here.

Lokky wrote:

Syd wrote:

ericalm wrote:Ask people who don't own scooters what they want and they'll usually reply with something very reasonable. Ask people who do own one: flying unicorn.

Are we that transparent?

I dunno, all I want is the 200cc FI manual Stella that's already for sale in Italy...

Yep. It exists, the unit cost probably isn't significantly higher than that of the 150cc version, and I would buy it if it were available.

I don't see Genuine importing them to the US in the near future, if ever, though. My estimate of the earliest possible time they would has already passed -- I was thinking they'd wait until the first ones imported had gone out of warranty, and that happened last year.

We'll have the automatic.

Don't hold your breath for the 200 manual. Thanks to the EU, there's one emissions standard for all of Europe and import/export there is much easier and cheaper than importing a new bike/engine to the US. Sales volumes there aren't nearly enough to make it worth bringing and selling here at its probable price point. It just doesn't make sense.

ericalm wrote:We'll have the automatic.

Don't hold your breath for the 200 manual. Thanks to the EU, there's one emissions standard for all of Europe and import/export there is much easier and cheaper than importing a new bike/engine to the US. Sales volumes there aren't nearly enough to make it worth bringing and selling here at its probable price point. It just doesn't make sense.

I just hope that the 150 4T manual doesn't go away too soon; it's a pretty nifty engine that hasn't been given enough attention by the after market. Tons of potential if some of the vintage tuners would give it a serious look.

BTW, the automatic doesn't even have the spare under the cowl; it's a fake-o tire cover. Add that on to the no gear change and no foot brake for an even less vintage experience.