Modern Buddy

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:21 pm**

Hi folks again. I searched the net for this answer and couldn't come up with a sufficient answer to my problems. I have about 200miles on my buddy 50. I unrestricted the variator, taking off a plastic washer, that went fine. I took off the exhaust pipe and there was no restrictor gasket on that so I just reassembled the pipe. Took it out for a ride and it barely goes over 30. maybe 35 wot down a long stretcher of road. It just seems like its been slower than when I first got it. I know I shouldn't push it until after the 600mi, but I need some oomph to stay out of car grills.

That speedometer read 33-35 and my gps read 27-29.

Is it normal for the dealership to derestrict the exhaust and not the variator, that really seems confusing? could I have looked at the exhaust wrong? it only had a metal ring on it? and how do I check if the head is leaking air?

I'm a big guy, but dang I just want to be able to hit 40 real mph. Sorry for rambling, I'm frustrated and all of the searches didn't quite answer my question. I'd rather monkey with it myself, and dealer is a few hours away.
thank you for any help.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:48 pm**

Did you make sure the washer wasn't stuck to the head? I'm 250lbs. And my buddy would pull to about 38 mph indicated stock. The local dealer upjets to 80 main jet after a derestriction. Stock main is a 75. My roughhouse ran strong with an 82 and derestriction. 5.5 or 6 gram rollers would help. 1500 rpm clutch springs will get it off the line stronger too.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:52 pm**

I'm going to take it apart again after it cools down and check.

Is that 38 gps mph or Buddy mph?

And shoot I know nothing of jetting, hmmm...

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:41 pm**

It definitely shouldn't be slower, even during break-in.

This video includes a demonstration of how to derestrict Genuine's 50cc bikes, so you can compare what you did with the official procedure.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:00 pm**

Bilw85 wrote:I need some oomph to stay out of car grills.

This IS why the scooter gods at Genuine gave us the 125

.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:43 pm**

I'm back form taking off exhaust again. It's definitely been unrestricted there.
My wife went for a ride and said it feels the same even after the restriction taken off variator. So it seems like its top is going to stay around 35 for now. I'm wondering what a dealer would think bringing it in for a trade for 125 with it still being low miles. It's becoming obvious to me now that I'm just to big(275) for a 50.

The other option is off course 70cc kit, but that won't be as satisfying I think...

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:05 pm**

Bilw85 wrote:I'm back form taking off exhaust again. It's definitely been unrestricted there.
My wife went for a ride and said it feels the same even after the restriction taken off variator. So it seems like its top is going to stay around 35 for now. I'm wondering what a dealer would think bringing it in for a trade for 125 with it still being low miles. It's becoming obvious to me now that I'm just to big(275) for a 50.

The other option is off course 70cc kit, but that won't be as satisfying I think...

Do you have hills? I had the same problem 50cc was fine for 95% of riding but climbing a hill had me holding up traffic. 125 is the way to go.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:16 pm**

No hills. Just some busy roads... I'd be fine if I knew I could cruise at 40 but it seems slower than the day I brought it home.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:28 pm**

38-40 indicated was the normal top speed. It sounds like your using it to commute or as a daily driver. The simplest fix would be to spend a little more and get a bigger scoot. A 72cc kit will require, a larger, carb, larger exhaust, better reeds to be truly reliable. Your fuel mileage will go down. 50-60 miles a tank can be annoying. A 125 stock is capable of 25-40k miles no sweat. My 125 ran about 47-49 mph GPS stock that was 59-60 indicated.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:29 pm**

Bilw85 wrote:No hills. Just some busy roads... I'd be fine if I knew I could cruise at 40 but it seems slower than the day I brought it home.

That's what leads me to think that there's something wrong here other than the size of the engine. With a 275lb rider it'd take longer to reach top speed than it would for a 175lb rider (which is an argument for a larger engine), but a 50cc should still be able to get to 40mph (give or take a couple) on level ground with no wind. At 230lb a couple years ago I used to do it routinely.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:48 pm**

Well I guess I'll just ride the heck out of it and see if it improves when it's really broke in. My wife says she really doesn't want a bigger scoot. So I'm going to keep this stock and make sure everything is running tiptop and maybe for next year buy it a big brother...

When we first brought it home after 100 miles we tested it and it got to 45 bmph at wot. Then over my commutes I noticed it not making it quite to 40bmph. And now that I removed the variator washer today it's been wot 35 to 38.

Maybe after a few days it will start to warm up to me a little.

On a side note. I hand tightened (ratchet) the variator nut I feel it was super tight. Test kick start and that worked. I assume this should be ok not using an impact wrench?

Tomorrow I'll be check in after my commute home from work.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:51 pm**

And simple low cost/simple solutions are welcome to get me to that GPS 40mph. I'm ready trying to lose weight. I was thinking pipe, rollers,spring? Simple changes that won't sacrifice it's mpg or reliability.

Thank you guys/gals

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:56 pm**

Bilw85 wrote:Well I guess I'll just ride the heck out of it and see if it improves when it's really broke in. My wife says she really doesn't want a bigger scoot. So I'm going to keep this stock and make sure everything is running tiptop and maybe for next year buy it a big brother...

When we first brought it home after 100 miles we tested it and it got to 45 bmph at wot. Then over my commutes I noticed it not making it quite to 40bmph. And now that I removed the variator washer today it's been wot 35 to 38.

Maybe after a few days it will start to warm up to me a little.

On a side note. I hand tightened (ratchet) the variator nut I feel it was super tight. Test kick start and that worked. I assume this should be ok not using an impact wrench?

Tomorrow I'll be check in after my commute home from work.

I use a ridgid 18v impact 1/4" hex drive. I give it a 5 second burst. A loose variator or clutch nut can ruin your crankshaft.

A buddy 125 is the exact same size as a 50cc. Its 40lbs heavier though.

If you pipe your scooter do a lot of research, I found the prima pipe far to peaky.

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:05 am**

Bilw85 wrote:My wife says she really doesn't want a bigger scoot.

Except fpr the sticker, there is absolutely no difference in size or appearance between a Buddy 50 and a Buddy 125. I'm not sure how she would know if you thoughtfully removed the sticker

.

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:36 am**

Bilw85 wrote:And simple low cost/simple solutions are welcome to get me to that GPS 40mph. I'm ready trying to lose weight. I was thinking pipe, rollers,spring? Simple changes that won't sacrifice it's mpg or reliability.

I stopped after derestriction and losing 20lbs, so I can't speak from experience about what else to do. There's a "stage 1" kit from Prima that includes all of what you mentioned: pipe, rollers, spring, and jets.

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:36 am**

I would also get some new rollers like the Dr. Pulley sliders maybe 6 gram ones. Seemed to help my speed going up hills a lot better on my buddy 50.

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:20 am**

....could I have looked at the exhaust wrong? it only had a metal ring on it?

This is what I am not quite understanding. The metal ring you mentioned, is it still on the exhaust? And if so, does it look like an over sized washer?

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:57 pm**

actually the washer looks like the new washer they put on during derestriction on the video that shows dealers how to derestrict.

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:23 pm**

Bilw85 wrote:And simple low cost/simple solutions are welcome to get me to that GPS 40mph. I'm ready trying to lose weight. I was thinking pipe, rollers,spring? Simple changes that won't sacrifice it's mpg or reliability.

Thank you guys/gals

Order 1500 rpm clutch springs and 5.5 gram weights. You can mix the 5.5 or mix with the stock 7's to arrive at 6.25. Try these two things first. Also order an 80 and 82 main jet. You can upjet and pull the snorkel out of the airbox for a bit more power. This will all cost you less than $30. And will work with any pipe. FYI having multiple sets roller weights is handy. I ended up with every main jet as well 80-110.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:46 am**

May have found a culprit. My wife admitted to me that she filled with the old gas can I keep for the lawn mower last time. Old gas. Maybe 6 months old or more. So I'm thinking this could be the reason for slow speed suddenly. I'm going to run it out and fill with some premium for a couple tanks and I will report back.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:19 am**

You shouldn't need premium (and I doubt that'll make any difference), but new gas can definitely help.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:29 am**

lovemysan wrote: ...My 125 ran about 47-49 mph GPS stock that was 59-60 indicated.

I don't get it. Our daughter's 125 (2009) Buddy easily hits 70+ bmph and Thursday night I rode it down into Dallas with a headwind holding right at 70 bmph and "drafting" an 18 wheeler (next to him) ran the last 2 miles easily at 75 bmph.

She has never had any problem keeping up with our 150's.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:35 pm**

MYSCTR wrote:
lovemysan wrote: ...My 125 ran about 47-49 mph GPS stock that was 59-60 indicated.
I don't get it. Our daughter's 125 (2009) Buddy easily hits 70+ bmph and Thursday night I rode it down into Dallas with a headwind holding right at 70 bmph and "drafting" an 18 wheeler (next to him) ran the last 2 miles easily at 75 bmph.

She has never had any problem keeping up with our 150's.

I'm 6' and 250lbs + gear

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:59 pm**

Bilw85 wrote:Well I guess I'll just ride the heck out of it and see if it improves when it's really broke in. My wife says she really doesn't want a bigger scoot. So I'm going to keep this stock and make sure everything is running tiptop and maybe for next year buy it a big brother...

You say your a "big guy" sorry but lets be real...275 is really pushing the concept of "big guy" a 50 cc may never get you over 40 mph.

Well it's not broken in and from what you have done it is no longer stock.

You say you don't have a clue about jetting, sounds like you have been hammering it at WOT and want to "monkey around" with it. Go ahead and ride the heck out of it and see if it improves...or blows up.

It's your scooter so do whatever you want with it. Just be aware that anytime you start to mod a motor...especially a 2T...you're taking a risk of blowing it up. The more "monkeying" around you do with no knowledge increases the possibility of blowing one up exponentially.

I have to say that I am amazed at the number of posts lately where people have done mods and not gotten what they expected because there is no mechanical way that what they did is going to get them wheat they expected,, have no clue what they are doing, assume modding a motor is plug and play, and then come crying when things don't work out right.

My favorite is "I put on a BBK and got very little additional top end I haven't done anything else so I am disappointed.".

Every time I read that I just have to say to myself "well what the f**k were you expecting?

I build motors, mod and tune. I probably spend as much time researching as doing the actual work. Even so I have blown up a couple of motors when I have pushed them beyond what I should have, didn't recheck a step etc. It doesn't make me happy when it happens but it is a risk I am willing to accept. Are you?

PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:23 pm**

BuddyRaton wrote:You say your a "big guy" sorry but lets be real...275 is really pushing the concept of "big guy" a 50 cc may never get you over 40 mph.
Well it's not broken in and from what you have done it is no longer stock.
You say you don't have a clue about jetting, sounds like you have been hammering it at WOT and want to "monkey around" with it. Go ahead and ride the heck out of it and see if it improves...or blows up.
It's your scooter so do whatever you want with it. Just be aware that anytime you start to mod a motor...especially a 2T...you're taking a risk of blowing it up. The more "monkeying" around you do with no knowledge increases the possibility of blowing one up exponentially.
I build motors, mod and tune. I have blown up a couple of motors when I have pushed them beyond what I should have, didn't recheck a step etc. It doesn't make me happy when it happens but it is a risk I am willing to accept. Are you?
PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

Wow – that’s a lot to take in especially when you have someone that is brand new to the scooter world (been inline what two weeks with a dozen posts) and he is asking questions that he could not find the answers too.

Let’s at least welcome him to scootering!

Talk of monkeying around, we sure could have used your expertise when we did our mods after reaching 10,000 miles on our scoot because the Genuine certified factory trained mechanics that worked on it couldn’t get it right after working on it for two months and finally we just went and got it back not quite tuned. And YES they were nice enough to remind me that they charged what they did because their lead mechanic was factory trained and knew what he was doing.

Let me be clear – this was NOT our local dealer. We went out of town and it ended up costing us BIG… and the end result was too much torque for such a little engine (and carrying me at 200 lbs) but it ran like heck and was always first off the line for over 5,000 miles.

We did a lot of homework, got a lot of good advise, yet at the end of the day as we are not the mechanical experts, we relied on a shop that was supposed to be known for building racing motorcycles and scooters yet adding a big bore kit to a 150 was admittedly out of their league.

It would be great to have one of you in all the major markets that a rider like myself could go to and pay to build the bikes or at least pay to be instructed on how to learn to do the mods ourselves.

Our local shop has freely given a lot of advise on how to do certain things and we are grateful since we have 4 scooters in the family.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:54 pm**

Just to be clear I wish the OP the best of luck. But lets get down to basics.

The owners manual tells how to break in. Yes this is controversial...many like to use the motorman method even though this one web page with no supporting data. Everyone agrees not to run WOT for any period of time.

Break it in before doing any mods...including derestricting, that's a good idea for any bike.

A 50cc scooter probably isn't right for a "big guy" and any homework at all would give the restricted top speed.

I don't work on scooters for money

I don't "teach" scooter repair for money.

People are welcome to come over and use my shop, I'll help them and they can help me

If you racing motorcycle/scooter mechanic can't handle a BBK...find a new one. It's not a hard job.

What were you expecting from a BBK? Of course it's gonna kick the snot out of the torque...that's why you put one on!

Look..all I'm trying to do is warn people about what often happens when they start messing with stuff they don't understand. Modding isn't for everybody. For many the correct thing to do is buy a bigger scooter

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:03 pm**

BuddyRaton wrote:...Modding isn't for everybody. For many the correct thing to do is buy a bigger scooter

^ Write that down.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:41 pm**

Rusty Shackleford wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:...Modding isn't for everybody. For many the correct thing to do is buy a bigger scooter
^ Write that down.

I agree! That one belongs over the doorway as you enter.

Posted: **Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:50 pm**

I just went for a two and a half hour ride over rural Missouri roads. Our derestricted Buddy 50 with no other modifications was easily hitting 50 bmph on flat pavement. It has 145 miles on the odometer. I weigh 275-280.

Posted: **Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 pm**

lovemysan wrote:38-40 indicated was the normal top speed. It sounds like your using it to commute or as a daily driver. The simplest fix would be to spend a little more and get a bigger scoot. A 72cc kit will require, a larger, carb, larger exhaust, better reeds to be truly reliable. Your fuel mileage will go down. 50-60 miles a tank can be annoying. A 125 stock is capable of 25-40k miles no sweat. My 125 ran about 47-49 mph GPS stock that was 59-60 indicated.

Posted: **Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:04 am**

Dooglas wrote:
Rusty Shackleford wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:...Modding isn't for everybody. For many the correct thing to do is buy a bigger scooter
^ Write that down.
I agree! That one belongs over the doorway as you enter.

srsly, I derestricted my 50 and can get it up to indicated 50mph on a straight, with a slight tail wind and tucked. I've gone 65+ downhill on it, once. BUT, I want moar!!!! (need is irrelevant) Hence, the search for the 200cc and up Vespa. It shall be mine.......because the summer is almost over, relatively speaking as I live on central CA coast, and prices are already starting to drop. (rubs palms together and chuckles)

Posted: **Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:26 am**

Bilw85 wrote:I'm back form taking off exhaust again. It's definitely been unrestricted there.
My wife went for a ride and said it feels the same even after the restriction taken off variator. So it seems like its top is going to stay around 35 for now. I'm wondering what a dealer would think bringing it in for a trade for 125 with it still being low miles. It's becoming obvious to me now that I'm just to big(275) for a 50.

The other option is off course 70cc kit, but that won't be as satisfying I think...

i really wish that when somebody talks about an issue with a 50cc that you all would just stop the Bull answer, that they should upgrade to a 125 !!!. We have obviously chose a 50cc for a reason. It doesn't help one bit, with those kind of comments !

Posted: **Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:52 am**

No Buddy 50 in my herd, but I do have an '03 Zuma 50 2T. Same motor, for all intents and purposes. It's a very capable engine and can punch above it's weight. I have some tuning in mind as soon as it's back in good stock form, but that's my own crazy plan. Want to get more from your Buddy 50? Check out this thread:

topic15709.html

The first step in tuning a bike is learning how it works. Once you get that figured out, read Graham Bell's book on two-stroke tuning. Learn how tuning parts affect the bike as a whole; some bits can and usually will affect other bits. If you get this far and haven't gotten bored and sold the bike, you are ready to tune it.

Posted: **Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:05 am**

Just thought I might offer some help here. If the variator has already been de-restricted by the removal of the washer, then check for a restrictor in the carburetor intake manifold. It should be above the reed valve (item #43). The restrictor is item #33 in the attached diagram marked "optional device".
Though I myself don't have a 50cc scooter, I know that in unrestricted form they will easily hit 45 mph.
Hope this helps.

Modern Buddy

Buddy Derestriction, seems slower?

Buddy Derestriction, seems slower?