need help. Intermittent starts and no idle

quinn0724 · Post by **quinn0724** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:54 pm

Hello,

this is my first post even though I have been checking modern buddy for years now. I am having a problem and anything I seem to try does not fix it.

I have a 2009 buddy with about 600 miles, I bought it brand new and have owned it for 4 years now. I am not incredibly mechanical but my girlfriends dad is, and has been helping me and showing me some things.

The first problem Ive been having is that it only starts very sporadically. The electric start does function fine but I primarily kick start it, it seems to be more consistent when I kick and when it starts its normally on the first kick or else its not going to start at all. lately I have been using starting fluid almost religiously and that seems to always work, but is obviously only a temporarily solution.

Secondly the idle pretty much does not exist on my scooter. I have to keep the throttle constantly opened otherwise it will die within a few seconds. I have the idle screw all the way opened and it revs pretty hard when it starts but it almost sounds like it runs out of fuel and dies after a couple seconds if i dont open the throttle.

This summer I have cleaned the carb three times because that seems to be what everyone thinks is the problem. After I do that it does seem to briefly run better but still no idle. I have also changed the spark plug, changed the battery, and changed the fuel filter. Talked to a guy yesterday and he told me to check the gas tank. There was some gunk in there and I attempted to clean it out but still no luck. But I dont really know how to clean a gas tank so any help on that would be appreciated as well.

Please help and Thank you

quinn0724 · Post by **quinn0724** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:07 pm

Sorry, forgot to mention its a 50cc

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:22 pm

Check the reeds. my guess they are damaged.

quinn0724 · Post by **quinn0724** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:37 pm

I havent done that yet. I do know what they are and what they do, but I cannot find anything on where they are located on my scooter.

Thanks for the help

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:17 am

No problem.. they are located on the intake side

It is # 43 on this picture.. it is just closer to the engine.
http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/buddycrankcase

quinn0724 · Post by **quinn0724** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:48 pm

so today I took out the valve and cleaned and flipped the reeds. They seemed a little open and when I flipped them it was much better However this still did not fix the problem. It dies after a few seconds of idle just like before. Thought for sure this was the problem but i guess not. Any other suggestions?

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:09 pm

My guess would be that something in your cold-start enrichment circuit is shot. This circuit consists of an "extra" fuel passage in the carburetor and an auto-bystarter (sometimes referred to as a choke) that control the flow through that passage.

The auto-bystarter is a thermostatic plunger that allows extra fuel into the carburetor at startup. When the engine is cold, the tip of the plunger is retracted, keeping the passage for the extra fuel open and thus making for a richer starting mixture. The auto-bystarter contains an electric heating element that, over time, heats up and causes a wax-like substance within the unit to expand. This expansion, in turn, extends the plunger and thus shuts off the extra fuel.

I can think of 4 modes of enrichment circuit failure, the last 3 of which seem applicable to your issue:

1. The bystarter never heats up. In this failure mode, the plunger never extends and you're constantly running too rich. Starting, however, would not be a problem.

2. The bystarter heats up too fast, causing the rich mixture you need to start to be cut off too rapidly.

3. The bystarter's plunger tip is somehow stuck in the extended position and never allows for a rich starting mixture.

4. The fuel passage controlled by the bystarter is clogged.

A quick and easy way to determine if your problem is related to the enrichment circuit would be to get the scooter started and then use the throttle to "nurse" the engine for about 5 minutes. Essentially, this mimics the action of the bystarter by allowing the engine to achieve a normal operating temperature. If, after this, the engine idles normally, you've isolated the problem to the enrichment circuit. If it still doesn't idle, then the problem lies elsewhere.

If this test points to the enrichment circuit, the next step would be to disconnect the auto-bystarter wires (the auto-bystarter is that black plastic cylinder on the carb) and measure its "cold" resistance with an ohmeter. If it's not within specs, then you've found your problem and need to replace the bystarter. If the resistance is within spec, then you probably need to go back and throughly clean out the fuel passage that the bystarter controls.

I hope that this helps.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:00 pm

Update?

quinn0724 · Post by **quinn0724** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:18 am

Thanks for the tip but I did the test like you said and it does not idle after I nurse it for 5 minutes. Even when Im riding it around and i need to come to a complete stop at a red light I still have to keep the throttle open partially and hold the brake. If I dont it will die within a couple of seconds. Is there anything else you can think of?

OldGuy · Post by **OldGuy** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:22 am

With 600 miles in 4 years it sounds like you don't put a lot of miles on the scooter. Do you use Stabil or Seafoam in the fuel to keep it from breaking down? If so, great!

If not, things could still be plugged up in spite of your carb cleaning.

I have not had a Buddy carb apart. However, it is typical for the needle jet in such a carb to have a number of tiny holes along the side. If some are plugged they can cause this kind of problem.

The main jet screws into the bottom of the needle jet. The main jet is short while the needle jet is a longer tube. The needle jet is the thing the jet needle slides into. If you decide to open your carb again please be sure those small holes are clear.

And, I don't recall reading if you drained the fuel tank or not. Good fresh fuel could help. I hope you get it going; not too much summer left!

quinn0724 · Post by **quinn0724** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:12 pm

I have cleaned the gas tank and I do occasionally run seafoam. Im hoping that I'm just missing something with the carb cleaning everytime i do it. But is there any other problem that it might be. Its just about the end of the season (I live in Chicago) and Im just about ready to give up and take it to a mechanic which Ive spent all summer trying to avoid.