Modern Buddy

In North Carolina there is legislation that has not passed yet - but probably will pass one day - that you must register, have a license and insurance for your 50cc scooter.

That's not exactly what the bill says, but that's the gist of it.

I'm wondering how these laws in other states have impacted your decision about what scooter you own. When the law passes then what's the point of owning a 50cc scooter?

For me, I own a Buddy 50 because it's fun to ride and cheap. Not because my drivers license was revoked or anything like that. I must admit though that moving up to a 125cc would be safer on some of these roads around Durham.

Comments?

when i started riding my state (cali) had already implemented laws that pretty much requires an "endorsement" to ride anything two wheeled with a motor. even those motorized kick scooters so popular with many youth



so my buying / riding options are not impacted. if you ride it and it has a motor and two wheels chances are it needs a license, M1 or M2

IL is " different" the up to 49CC and under 30 MPH you can use your DL for riding. " No helmet laws either just eye protection"
from 50-149 you need a L endorsement "smaller Motorcycle test and slower speeds "

From 150 and UP you need a M endorsement Now the M will cover you down however the L you can not ride anything larger than the 149

Since I had my M I got a 150 however I was looking at 125's as well, as the roads out here are too fast for a 50

If 50cc scooters had the same legal requirements as 125cc scooters, there'd be less reason to go with that option, but there would still be a purchase-price difference, so for someone who doesn't need the speed, it'd still make sense.

I would prefer if they would pass something similar in VA. All of the DUI-mobiles give scooters a bad name in my area.

In Tx as of 2009 no matter what the engine size, they ALL require a motorcycle license, and to get that license you HAVE to take the MSF course.
Our 50cc sales are pretty much dead now, but our 150cc sales have increased tremendously.
They have all always required, registration, insurance and inspection.

DudeDog wrote:In North Carolina there is legislation that has not passed yet - but probably will pass one day - that you must register, have a license and insurance for your 50cc scooter.

That's not exactly what the bill says, but that's the gist of it.

I'm wondering how these laws in other states have impacted your decision about what scooter you own. When the law passes then what's the point of owning a 50cc scooter?

For me, I own a Buddy 50 because it's fun to ride and cheap. Not because my drivers license was revoked or anything like that. I must admit though that moving up to a 125cc would be safer on some of these roads around Durham.

Comments?

WA state requires registration for a 50cc scooter, a license plate, a DOT approved helmet ( a good idea notwithstanding), a valid DL but no MC endorsement on the DL and no insurance requirement. What's the point in owning a 50cc scooter? If 35 mph or maybe a derestricted 40 mph tops works for you, well, why not? One of the most enjoyable scoots I have ever owned was an '87 Honda SE50. In a pinch it could top out at 42 mph and was an incredibly fun ride.

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur

In AZ it's also simple: If it has two or three wheels, a motor but no pedals it must have a title, registration, MC license and insurance. The law has it stated with more wherefores and therefores, of course.

walke2jd wrote:I would prefer if they would pass something similar in VA. All of the DUI-mobiles give scooters a bad name in my area.

Indeed. I'm running around on a de-badged 125, but I'm sure everybody thinks I'm on a liquorcycle. Here in NoVA (Reston/Herndon), apparently the only folks on scooters (other than me) are either delivery drivers or DUI recipients. It's a damn shame considering the bikes are perfect for the quasi-urban environment...

--Jaeger

Syd wrote:In AZ it's also simple: If it has two or three wheels, a motor but no pedals it must have a title, registration, MC license and insurance. The law has it stated with more wherefores and therefores, of course.

This was a good thing for me; I had briefly flirted with the idea of 50ccs and no endorsement before becoming aware of the law. I ended up going with a Lance Havana (125ccs) and taking an MSF course, both of which I am very glad I did. I commute 13 miles one way on arterials where traffic is doing 35 - 50 and I would be uncomfortable on anything less powerful. That's not to say there aren't areas and commutes in town where 50ccs would do, just not in my situation.

I wish awareness of the law could play a role in enlightening the the driver tailgating me who subconsciously believes he's stuck behind a moped or electric bicycle, despite the fact that we're doing 50mph, but that's just unrealistic... haha.

Welcome to Modern Buddy, RexM! If you got your Havana recently, you got it at just the right time. Still hot enough to get used to riding in heat, but with every bit of the good weather to come. Well done!

It's hard to find a better group in the interTubes than MB, but there is another board at least worth looking at, because it is for SYM scoots, the manufacturer of the Havana. Check out http://symforum.com/. Pretty slow, compared to here, but there is good info there.

Another group to keep track of, if you want to ride in groups, is the =http://www.meetup.com/Phoenix-Scooter- ... ooter club. Lots of rides arranged, and the biggie is the Fifth Annual Scooter Fiesta at Joe's Farm Grill in early December this year. Lots of scoots!

Thanks Syd. I am definitely looking forward to cooler weather! As an on/off bicycling enthusiast over prior summers I had an idea of what I was signing up for when I bought my scooter in June, but of course nothing compares to fall/winter/spring here, once summer finally passes.

I knew the Sym board was out there somewhere but have been enjoying my lurkage on MB sufficiently that I hadn't gone looking for it. Thanks for the link, as well as the one for Phoenix Scooter Club.

OK, I'll stop hijacking the thread now!

walke2jd wrote:I would prefer if they would pass something similar in VA. All of the DUI-mobiles give scooters a bad name in my area.

We just passed something like that here... I had thought it was statewide, but maybe it was a city ordinance.

Here's my thoughts on it:
-My city has pretty high theft numbers for scooters. The fact that 50's didn't require tags or registration meant that the risk of them being stolen was even higher. A simple registration and tag system means that 50's from now on must and will be entered into the DMV. No more buying a 50 and wondering if it has no title registered to anybody because it's stolen, or just because its owner was always lazy about it. If your 50 gets stolen, there's a way to track it even if it gets rattle-canned black and hauled one state over, because the VIN is in the DMV's computer and connected to you.

-50cc's have a reputation amongst the ignorant (and the reckless) as being the vehicle of choice for those who have lost a license, even though that is actually illegal. In my state, at least, if you have lost your license for any reason, you cannot legally operate ANYTHING with a motor on a Virginia roadway. This isn't really enforcable, though, because what officer is going to stop any bike without a plate just to check and see if the rider has their license? The answer is that, frankly, cops have better things to do. However, I don't know about you, but I'd feel better if somebody who isn't allowed to drive a car on the road isn't allowed to drive a scooter... and for both my safety and theirs, I really don't give a crap what displacement their scooter is. I am ASSUMING that somewhere in the registration process, people not posessing a valid license would be kept from riding, or warned that they could not... maybe register the vehicle, but the DMV won't assign it plates, so it can't be driven on the road. That way an enthusiast could arguably still collect, esp if the license suspension was temporary.

The whole thing can honestly only help. Yeah, I know how everybody feels about having to deal with the DMV over one more thing, but it will help everybody except thieves, pretty much. I just wish we'd required insurance as well... I don't believe that anybody should drive anything on the road without coverage. But that's just me.

walke2jd wrote:I would prefer if they would pass something similar in VA. All of the DUI-mobiles give scooters a bad name in my area.

We just passed something like that here... I had thought it was statewide, but maybe it was a city ordinance.

Here's my thoughts on it:
-My city has pretty high theft numbers for scooters. The fact that 50's didn't require tags or registration meant that the risk of them being stolen was even higher. A simple registration and tag system means that 50's from now on must and will be entered into the DMV. No more buying a 50 and wondering if it has no title registered to anybody because it's stolen, or just because its owner was always lazy about it. If your 50 gets stolen, there's a way to track it even if it gets rattle-canned black and hauled one state over, because the VIN is in the DMV's computer and connected to you.

-50cc's have a reputation amongst the ignorant (and the reckless) as being the vehicle of choice for those who have lost a license, even though that is actually illegal. In my state, at least, if you have lost your license for any reason, you cannot legally operate ANYTHING with a motor on a Virginia roadway. This isn't really enforcable, though, because what officer is going to stop any bike without a plate just to check and see if the rider has their license? The answer is that, frankly, cops have better things to do. However, I don't know about you, but I'd feel better if somebody who isn't allowed to drive a car on the road isn't allowed to drive a scooter... and for both my safety and theirs, I really don't give a crap what displacement their scooter is. I am ASSUMING that somewhere in the registration process, people not posessing a valid license would be kept from riding, or warned that they could not... maybe register the vehicle, but the DMV won't assign it plates, so it can't be driven on the road. That way an enthusiast could arguably still collect, esp if the license suspension was temporary.

The whole thing can honestly only help. Yeah, I know how everybody feels about having to deal with the DMV over one more thing, but it will help everybody except thieves, pretty much. I just wish we'd required insurance as well... I don't believe that anybody should drive anything on the road without coverage. But that's just me.

I just moved to Northern Virginia and on this side of the river, the people on scooters look like delinquents and drive beat-up machines. It's a little bit more classy in the District but I think the District is a lot more strict than Virginia.

On the other hand, I'm loving the plentiful motorcycle parking in the District.

mukaiboston wrote:I just moved to Northern Virginia and on this side of the river, the people on scooters look like delinquents and drive beat-up machines. It's a little bit more classy in the District but I think the District is a lot more strict than Virginia.

True that. Lock up in the District, theft is an epidemic. trackpete, the guy who rode his Rattler 110 to the top of Alaska a few years back, just had that scoot stolen from near the convention center. My license plate was stolen the day after my crash when it was parked in Alex. My vanity plate!! I definiately expect to see a rise in license plate thefts in Virginia, so be vigilant.

Yes, in VA we have until July 2014 to comply in regaurds to 50cc "mopeds". I already did my 50cc Zuma, and was shocked that I had to tag it also. Not a big deal as it was only $35 a year but still, the reason I got the 50cc was because it was free to operate. Still no insurance or motorcycle endoresment reqired. And we still can get busted for going over 35mph. Hopefully the theft will taper off. Got my tag installed with tamper proof bolts with huge fender washers to keep it from getting torn off/removed.

What Luna said!!!

sc00ter wrote:Yes, in VA we have until July 2014 to comply in regaurds to 50cc "mopeds". I already did my 50cc Zuma, and was shocked that I had to tag it also. Not a big deal as it was only $35 a year but still, the reason I got the 50cc was because it was free to operate. Still no insurance or motorcycle endoresment reqired. And we still can get busted for going over 35mph. Hopefully the theft will taper off. Got my tag installed with tamper proof bolts with huge fender washers to keep it from getting torn off/removed.

Good points that you and BSFF make... can you link me to those bolts?

I found the tamper proof plate bolts at Wal-Mart in the auto stuff section (plate frames/accessories). I think they are the BELL brand. They come with this little hoop wrench contraption to tighten/loosen them with. I also like to double nut the back of the tamper proof bolts to make it extra un-pleasant to remove. Like the rest of us, I hate going to the DMV. And anything I can do to avoid it the better! Now on a side note. If you are registering a moped in VA your plate will have the word MOPED in red on the bottom. You can cover this area with a DROWsports license plate frame from DROWsports, the Ruckus/Zuma parts house. Since I have insurance on the 50cc Zuma and a state inspection PLUS my motorcycle endorisment I ride with the traffic on the surface streets. It exceeds 35mph but DMV would not let me register it as a motorcycle?!?! Kept saying it was a moped, but it is deresticted and it goes over 35mph. Go figure. I'll take my chances with the hidden MOPED word on my plate.

In PA the law is this: all vehicles w/wheels and a motor must be registered and insured. (motorcycle/scooter/moped registration is $18 dollars a year) Under 50cc's can be operated w/a drivers license. 50cc's and above and you must have a Motorcycle license endorsement (or a learners permit - which costs $10 and is good for one year). We have no helmet laws unless you are riding on your Motorcycle learners permit, then you have to wear a helmet (you also cannot have a passenger and cannot ride after dark).

I bought a 50cc scooter originally (Honda Metro) because I could own it and operate it w/o a M endorsement. I wanted to make sure that I enjoyed riding before I went to the extra effort and expense of getting my M endorsement. I put almost 10,000 miles on that scooter before upgrading to a Stella.

hey vwgrl1999 just so you know and also anyone else from PA, taken from the PaDOT site:

MOPED
DEFINITION: A motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals, a motor rated no more than 1.5 brake
horsepower, a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters, an automatic transmission,
and a maximum design speed of no more than 25 miles per hour, or an electric motor-driven
cycle equipped with operable pedals and powered by an electric battery.
CRITERIA: 1. Engine may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.
2. Engine may not exceed 1.5 brake horsepower rating.
3. Operable pedals required.
4. Automatic transmission required.
5. Design speed may not be more than 25 miles per hour.
6. Does not require inspection.
7. Moped plate issued.
8. Annual registration fee is $9.
9. No helmet or eye protection required for driver.
10. Class C, Non-Commercial Driver’s License required.


MOTOR-DRIVEN CYCLE
DEFINITION: A motorcycle, including a motor scooter, with a motor, which produces horsepower not to
exceed 5 brake horsepower.
CRITERIA: 1. Horsepower is not more than 5 brake horsepower.
2. Inspection required.
3. Motorcycle plate issued.
4. Annual registration fee is $9.
5. Individuals who meet the following criteria are able to choose whether to wear a motorcycle
helmet:
 The operator or any occupant of a 3-wheeled motorcycle equipped with an enclosed cab.
 A person 21 years of age or older who has been licensed to operate a motorcycle for at least
two years.
 A person 21 years of age or older who has completed a motorcycle rider safety course
approved by PennDOT or the Motorcycle Safety Foundation.
 The passenger of a person who is exempt, if the passenger is 21 years of age or older.
6. Eye protection required.
7. Class M or a Class M with an “8” restriction required on driver’s license. NOTE: An “8”
restriction prohibits the driver from operating a motor-driven cycle with an engine that is
capable of producing more than 5 brake horsepower.
NOTE: The holder of a Class C, Non-Commercial Driver’s License is authorized to drive a
motor-driven cycle, which has an automatic transmission and a cylinder capacity not exceeding
50 cubic centimeters.


MOTORCYCLE
DEFINITION: A motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not
more than three wheels in contact with the ground, or designed to travel on two wheels in
contact with the ground which is modified by the addition of two stabilizing wheels on the rear of
the motor vehicle.
CRITERIA: 1. Inspection required.
2. Motorcycle plate issued.
3. Individuals who meet the following criteria are able to choose whether to wear a motorcycle
helmet:
 The operator or any occupant of a 3-wheeled motorcycle equipped with an enclosed cab.
 A person 21 years of age or older who has been licensed to operate a motorcycle for at least
two years.
 A person 21 years of age or older who has completed a motorcycle rider safety course
approved by PennDOT or the Motorcycle Safety Foundation.
 The passenger of a person who is exempt, if the passenger is 21 years of age or older.
4. Eye protection required.
5. Annual registration fee is $18.
6. Class M (motorcycle) required on driver’s license.
7. Class M or a Class M with a “9” restriction required on driver’s license. NOTE: A “9” restriction
prohibits the driver from operating a 2-wheeled motorcycle.
NOTE: Side-cars are not titled or registered in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

With all the misinformation going on in other states at least PA. gets the difference between a Moped and MC.

PA registration is $9! It's been a few months since I paid mine....I couldn't remember exactly what it was. I just knew that it was next to nothing.

Also, I didn't realize that we had a different 'classification' for mopeds. Informative, thanks.

I know that there's been talk in Indiana about registering anything under 50cc, and requiring some sort of endorsement... currently, though, anything under 50cc doesn't require a license at all, and 50cc and up requires a motorcycle endorsement on a driver's license.

I hope they don't end up requiring a driver's license for smaller scoots here, as I have some anxiety issues that impacted me learning to drive a car (you shoulda seen me during my first week on my Honda Metro - I had a death grip on the handlebars, was going about 20 mph, heh), and getting a drivers license just to be able to ride a scooter again would be ridiculous - but I am all for registering scooters, as it'll make it easier to track them down if they get stolen, and maybe it'll keep the drunks who lost their licenses and figured a scooter was a great idea off the road...

Um yeeeeeeaaaaaaah........if you think for one single heartbeat that the DMV or your police will spend even a nanosecond cross-checking registrations on scooters to see if they are stolen, you are sadly mistaken. Ask me how I know this.

LunaP wrote:

walke2jd wrote:I would prefer if they would pass something similar in VA. All of the DUI-mobiles give scooters a bad name in my area.

We just passed something like that here... I had thought it was statewide, but maybe it was a city ordinance.

Here's my thoughts on it:
-My city has pretty high theft numbers for scooters. The fact that 50's didn't require tags or registration meant that the risk of them being stolen was even higher. A simple registration and tag system means that 50's from now on must and will be entered into the DMV. No more buying a 50 and wondering if it has no title registered to anybody because it's stolen, or just because its owner was always lazy about it. If your 50 gets stolen, there's a way to track it even if it gets rattle-canned black and hauled one state over, because the VIN is in the DMV's computer and connected to you.

-50cc's have a reputation amongst the ignorant (and the reckless) as being the vehicle of choice for those who have lost a license, even though that is actually illegal. In my state, at least, if you have lost your license for any reason, you cannot legally operate ANYTHING with a motor on a Virginia roadway. This isn't really enforcable, though, because what officer is going to stop any bike without a plate just to check and see if the rider has their license? The answer is that, frankly, cops have better things to do. However, I don't know about you, but I'd feel better if somebody who isn't allowed to drive a car on the road isn't allowed to drive a scooter... and for both my safety and theirs, I really don't give a crap what displacement their scooter is. I am ASSUMING that somewhere in the registration process, people not posessing a valid license would be kept from riding, or warned that they could not... maybe register the vehicle, but the DMV won't assign it plates, so it can't be driven on the road. That way an enthusiast could arguably still collect, esp if the license suspension was temporary.

The whole thing can honestly only help. Yeah, I know how everybody feels about having to deal with the DMV over one more thing, but it will help everybody except thieves, pretty much. I just wish we'd required insurance as well... I don't believe that anybody should drive anything on the road without coverage. But that's just me.

In FL under 50cc doesn't require a M endorsement, 50 and over does which requires a $200 MSF class. Neither require insurance and helmets are optional for most people not sure exactly I just wear mine. All gas powered scooters are considered motorcycles and must be titled and registered. Mopeds are different but law specifically saysmopeds have pedals. It was really difficult to figure this information out and it may not be 100% accurate. Spoke to several different "officials" who couldn't really give a definitive answer.

I started with 50cc but decided to move up to a 125 to expand the range of places I could comfortably go. I have to say that I feel the Buddy 50 was more fun to ride even though it only went 48 bmph.

Ga. law simular to Fl. However you must have a tag, title, insurance, and
MC license for anything over 50cc. 50cc no tag, no registration needed,can not operate on expressways.Helmet is required to operate either.