Change to medium high test gasoline

squasher5 · Post by **squasher5** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:14 pm

With our Buddy 50, 2009, we are very happy with its performance on the flat or small grades, but going up a very big hill has been disappointing.

So for a change, I tried using medium high test gasoline. Here in NM that is only 88 octane, as regular is 86 octane.

Anyway, after a few hours of use....I tried it on the big hill in town (small mountain), and it performed much better.......25% better. This is impressive.

The question is.....am I doing any damage to the engine or other parts. Is the engine running hotter? I don't mind the extra cost, as the performance improvement is worth it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

OldGuy · Post by **OldGuy** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:28 pm

This wouldn't do any damage. Except maybe to your wallet! Higher octane really should not be needed on a Buddy 50. That's a 2T correct? The compression ratio on the 2 strokes is very low. There shouldn't be a benefit to higher octane because it won't be tempted to pre-ignite (as it would with high compression).

However...

If your Buddy has a few miles on it and has carbon built up on top of the piston, that would increase compression and the tendency to pre-ignite. Could be you need to de-carbon the piston.

Also, could be the previous gas you had was bad and this is simply a case of getting fresh gas.

But, no harm will come by buying the higher cotane gas.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:50 am

A 25% improvement seems to me to be much more than can be accounted for by using the next octane level up. That's huge!

A medium windshield will help with hills. Not 25%, though!

As far as damage, well… not really, no. Did you read the octane FAQ?

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:48 pm

How did you determine a 25% increase in performance? And what defines performance?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:14 am

I run premium in all my 2T motors. It delays detonation if the jug, piston or head gets too hot. Premium can help prevent blowing a hole in the piston.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:43 am

You got a performance boost because you put closer to the correct gas in it. I had a buddy 50 the sticker says 91 octane and yes if you put a lower grade you will get a rougher riding scoot that goes slower and uses more gas. Put the correct gas in it always. It's only twenty four cents more don't be a scrooge. I'm on my third scooter and every single one has driven worse with lower grade gas and got worse mpg. Don't go to a gas station that only has one hose on the pump. You can get up to a half gallon of what the last person was pumping. So if you get premium and pay for premium you are getting something closer to mid grade. In my area BP is the only stations with separate hoses for the grades. One station even has 93 octane and one has 91 octane without ethanol. You'll get better performance and mileage on the gas that's free of ethanol. There is a site and it's something like ethanolfreegas.com but if you google it you'll find it. You can search your area for stations that have ethanol free gas.

squasher5 · Post by **squasher5** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:31 am

Thanks for the suggestions and info,

Originally I defined performance strictly by mph improvement on a major hill here in town. But after a couple of weeks of riding with the higher octane, I can see other areas in which improvement is noticeable. One of those is driving into a big headwind.....we get a lot of strong winds here in the mountains, and I find I can maintain speed much better now.

One problem my mechanic told me..... was that if leaving the scooter sit for several weeks or months, high test gas has more ethanol, and for that reason it would be a bad idea. I use an additive with each tank anyway, and I find a big improvement in starting and general acceleration.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:33 pm

Huh, my mechanic told me to not run additives in my buddy. I still ran a cap of sea foam every fifth or sixth tank though. Now I've never heard of prenium having more ethanol. That sounds flat out wrong. I'll research later. But what is known to happen with gas that has ethanol is that it attracts moisture, separates, gets less mpg, and one or two other things. Now if you plan on parking it for weeks on end you can disconnect the battery and drain the gas tank and drain the carb and you should be peachy. Also your motor should run a bit cooler on premium gas. The buddy needs premium either because of a high compression ratio or because its air cooled and gets hotter. Either way premium has more Octane and all that really does is resist heat. More octane more heat resistance. You need that because your motor could heat the gas enough to blow it up before the motor has reached the power stroke causing the gas to explode while the piston moves up instead ofdown . This will damage your motor over time. Now in cars most will have a computer to adjust to this and help keep you from frak up your motor. Your Buddy cant do that.

squasher5 · Post by **squasher5** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:38 pm

This is a good topic for discussion, and there seems to be many answers. But here is the most realistic reply I have found.....this is about higher octane gasoline having more ethanol...or not.

There is a difference between states on whether premium gas specifically has ethanol in it or not. Or, more correctly, whether it's required to have it in it. Two states in the Union, Missouri and Montana, have specific exemption to allow ethanol-free premium gasoline. So if you live in one of those two states, you can be thankful.

For the rest of us, we are faced with the unpleasant reality that the refineries are all but tied into putting ethanol in premium gas. This is because they have to use the ethanol to raise the octane level of their gasoline blend in order to satisfy the higher octane requirements of premium. This is one reason why you don't get better gas mileage with premium gas, because an essential part of that blend is a component that has less energy and forces the gas mileage down simply by nature.

So don't get fooled into thinking you can escape ethanol's grasp simply by paying more and getting premium gas.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:47 pm

squasher5 wrote:Two states in the Union, Missouri and Montana, have specific exemption to allow ethanol-free premium gasoline. So if you live in one of those two states, you can be thankful.

Yeah, unless you live in STL area. You have to go way out in the countryside to find ethanol-free gas around here. No joy crossing into Illinois, either.

http://www.pure-gas.org/?stateprov=MO

Lots of ethanol-free stations when we visit our college son in Tulsa.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:40 pm

Lucky me. Im four miles from MO. But my brother lives near lake texoma in OK and he says somre gas stations near it sell ethanol free gas.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:06 am

PeteH wrote:
squasher5 wrote:Two states in the Union, Missouri and Montana, have specific exemption to allow ethanol-free premium gasoline. So if you live in one of those two states, you can be thankful.
Yeah, unless you live in STL area. You have to go way out in the countryside to find ethanol-free gas around here. No joy crossing into Illinois, either.

http://www.pure-gas.org/?stateprov=MO

Lots of ethanol-free stations when we visit our college son in Tulsa.

Actually we have stations with Ethanol Free gas in Kansas too....You have to look, but there are a half dozen or so fairly near me.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:09 am

squasher5 wrote:This is a good topic for discussion, and there seems to be many answers. But here is the most realistic reply I have found.....this is about higher octane gasoline having more ethanol...or not.

There is a difference between states on whether premium gas specifically has ethanol in it or not. Or, more correctly, whether it's required to have it in it. Two states in the Union, Missouri and Montana, have specific exemption to allow ethanol-free premium gasoline. So if you live in one of those two states, you can be thankful.

For the rest of us, we are faced with the unpleasant reality that the refineries are all but tied into putting ethanol in premium gas. This is because they have to use the ethanol to raise the octane level of their gasoline blend in order to satisfy the higher octane requirements of premium. This is one reason why you don't get better gas mileage with premium gas, because an essential part of that blend is a component that has less energy and forces the gas mileage down simply by nature.

So don't get fooled into thinking you can escape ethanol's grasp simply by paying more and getting premium gas.

Well, you know they sell the Star Enzyme stuff there. They suggested to me from the very start to put a couple of capfuls in with every fill up....it basically fights the water collection properties of Ethanol... I still ran a shot of Seafoam in mine too about every 600 miles or so.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:17 am

I have a bottle of that stuff. I dont use it when we have three gas stations with ethanol free premium only a couple of minutes away.

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:26 am

Yeah, I try and use the ethanol free stuff as much as possible in my Harley...

dkw12002 · Post by **dkw12002** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:39 pm

I agree that you only need regular unleaded. I have a Black Cat manual for my new Roughhouse. Apparently there is no Roughhouse manual but I looked up the recommendation in the owner's manual. All it says is "unleaded". Nothing about octane rating. First bike I've ever owned that doesn't have a minimum octane rating listed. The Vespa and Sportcity line recommend high octane, so not all scooters use regular unleaded. The most positive statement I've seen on the subject was for the Vino 125 I owned. The owner's manual said the engine was DESIGNED to use gasohol 86 octane.