scooter or motorcylce

[tempalte]

I just finished my motorcycle training course and got my license. I have been wanting a scooter for a while, and today went down to my local scooter dealer and did some test rides.

I rode a Kymco Agility 125 and a Rattler 110. I rode dirt bikes as a kid. On the scooter I felt much more vulnerable. I think it had a lot to do with the seating position, no gas tank to hold you knees against, looking forward you "feel" closer to the road. Also the Kymco's handle bars seemed pretty narrow.

Did anyone else feel this way when riding a scooter for the first time?

I want something to commute to work on. (about 8 miles, 40mph, a few stop lights). So I am trying to decide between a scooter and 250cc motorcycle. I was all set on a scooter until my test rides today. Did anyone else have the same experience when they rode a scooter for the first time?

[ericalm]

It's possible you just test rode the wrong scooters. The Rattler, in particular, has a very unusual seating position—very high compared to the legshield and handlebars; for me, it almost felt like leaning over the front. You should try at least sitting on, if not test riding, a couple of other models like the Buddy or the People.

I understand that feeling of vulnerability, but in some ways it's more perception and a matter of what you're used to. It's hard to feel safe if you're uncomfortably seated.

A 125cc scoot would certainly do the trick for your needs. At the same time, a lot of riders find that they want to ride more, further and faster than initially planned after they become more comfortable riding.

[jeketus]

This spring I bought both a scooter and a motorcycle. I spent most of the summer riding the motorcycle. I got back on the scoot late in the season and found that I enjoy riding the scooter a lot more than the bike. I felt more in control of what I was doing on the scooter, and I also felt more of a connection with the road and my surroundings. Plus it's a lot easier to pull over or deviate on the scooter. Overall, I find my scooter more versatile, and I no longer own a motorcycle. I plan on getting a new scooter (a Buddy, of course) next spring. My two cents.

[weaseltamer]

I had only test ridden the buddy once, (this was w/o a license and pre motorcycle course) before i bought it. They just happened to load it all up in the truck as i signed paperwork. Despite ks's 3 day return on major purchases, i'm kinda lucky the buddy is so perfect for me. i don't recommend repeating my rash vehicle buying behavior. (which has happened before d'oh!)

[pcbikedude]

I would suggest you try the Buddy 125, Kymco People 150 & Bet&Win 150, Yamaha Vino 125 or Vespa LX150 (am I missing one?).

Both the Agility and Rattler are quality bikes. I think you experienced the same thing I did. The front ends of both bikes are very light and ride very "nervous". The other bikes are heavier front ends and feel more stable.

Take your time. Buy what you like. You can probably get a pretty decent deal on 2007 models. There are some really remarkable deals right now here in San Diego.

[AxeYrCat]

Funny that you say that you feel more comfortable on a motorcycle, I was just thinking about this the other day...


When I got hit by a car on my Buddy in November, I was basically able to fall on top of the bike instead of the other way around. If the same thing had happened on my motorcycle, I think I would have been hurt a bit more than I was.


I'm not entirely sure about that, but it really seems that way to me.



Really, you need to be riding whatever you feel more comfortable on, but scooters are almost infinitely more practical than motorcycles.

[Dibber]

I felt the same way when I road a scooter for the first time. I test rode a Kymco 150 People and a Buddy 125. The seating position on both felt a bit strange. Sitting in a chair like feeling. However I bought the Buddy and in a few short miles, I got used to the new feeling. Now I like the scooter position much better than the motorcycle seating position. You need to put a few miles on it before you truely feel the greatness of the scooter.

[lobsterman]

At the risk of sounding like a moral relativist, there is no "right" and "wrong" answer to these questions. OK, there may be some wrong answers, i.e. it would be wrong to buy a 50cc for cross country highway use. The right bike for you is a highly personal decision having a lot to do with things we have no way of knowing about you, what you like, where you live, your personality, etc. etc. etc.

Obviously many here have chosen to purchase and ride a Genuine Buddy, and most are pretty happy with that decision. Personally I bought the Buddy and I'm glad I did. Are there other bikes I'd like to own and ride? Of course there are. Buying a scooter or a motorcycle is not a marriage or an exclusive and binding contract with that bike for life. If you don't end up liking what you start out with, either because of personal preference or utility, sell it and try something else.

Just don't let a salesperson make the decision for you. You decide what's right for you and go for it.

[tempalte]

I bought the Buddy and in a few short miles, I got used to the new feeling

Thanks guys. I'll test drive a buddy. I was really pumped about getting a scooter , but worried I wouldn't get used to the seating position. I'll give it another try.

[AxeYrCat]

Good call!


I almost didn't buy my motorcycle because of the riding position (and how odd it felt initially), but I *quickly* got used to it.


I really think you'll enjoy a Buddy should you decide to purchase one...


I drove by a Genuine dealer the other day, and it made me miss mine even more.

[metty]

I have had around 10 motorcycles up to a Honda Shadow and about 6 scooters up to a 400 Suzuki Burgman. I find scoots to be a lot more fun. With a motorcycle you are signing up for a lifetime of shifting. It may be fun at first but it gets old real fast. That is all you do is shift and shift and shift some more. A scoot is twist and go fun. You can go and enjoy the ride and not worry about what gear your in and timing the clutch correctly. Scoots are much more fun to run arrands on. Easy to stop and go, climb on and off. Who wants to wrestle a 600 lb 7 to 8 foot bike out of the garage to go run arrands on. Lets see you carry the stuff I have carried on my scooter with a motorcycle. When I had my Burgman I could get a large pizza 2 two liters of pop and a sunday paper under my seat with room to spare. Thats not counting the glove box and cell phone storage area. Try that on a motorcycle. My bubu I carried lots of groceries and 3 bags of ice from the store to my house 5 miles away. A motorcycle is a lot more studly and cool but the function of it is not much more than that. On my burgman I went on some two hundred mile rides and passed motorcycles along the way. If you want to travel buy a big scoot. If you want to commute a short distance and run arrands buy a 125cc to a 200cc scoot. Two wheelers are about fun and shifting five times after every stop is not that fun. Think about it.

[PasadenaSue]

I'm with Metty. I rode motorcycles for years and loved them. When I bought my Buddy I wasn't used to the seating position and the small wheels. The first ride had me thinking that I had made a big mistake buying it. But after a week or so of riding it, I LOVE it! I love the fact I don't have to shift. I love the fact that I can carry stuff to work in my top box, or under the seat. I love the fact that I don't have to climb onto the bike. It goes fast enough for my commute, and it gets lots more positive attention - even from Police. They usually smile and wave.

So, I'm a scooter convert. I'll probably buy another motorcycle, but I'll most likely always have a scooter.

PasadenaSue

[ericalm]

Hm, maybe a big secret in the MC world is that riders are really sick of shifting! Wonder if that means more widespread adoption of CVTs and other automated transmissions (like on the drool-worthy Aprilia Mana 850).

Vintage scooterists wear their shifting like a badge of honor!

[gt1000]

Some of the points raised in this thread are quite interesting but two in particular stand out.

Regarding perceived vulnerability on a scooter? I don't see much difference between a scoot and a bike. Both are extremely vulnerable. You probably do feel closer to the road on a scooter but you're much better off not looking down while riding, so this is a non-factor to me. The handle bars do tend to be narrower on a scoot compared to standard, tubular bars on a bike but you tend to need more leverage to steer a bike because of the weight. To test this out, try riding a scooter, a standard bike with tubular bars and then a sport bike with low clip ons back to back. You'll probably find that the scoot requires the least effort to steer while the bike with clip ons requires the most effort.

As far as shifting goes, I rather enjoy shifting. I also enjoy it in cars but there is a caveat. Shifting a well designed, smooth transmission in concert with a smooth, progressive clutch is fun. Shifting a clunky transmission with a less than adequate clutch is pure work. In certain types of riding I like to control the gear I'm in. When I'm shopping bikes, the quality of the tranny is always a potential deal breaker.

For my daily ride the scooter can't be beat. I'd be pretty miserable without it. But, if I could only own one ride, it would be a tough call between some sort of 250 sccoter or some sort of dual purpose bike with luggage.

[lobsterman]

Regarding shifting cars, I agree with gt1000.

I have always driven manual transmission cars and I greatly prefer it, with the exception of stop and go heavy traffic driving. Some people really like manual transmissions, others can't stand them and the reverse is true as well. Personal preference.

I have not ridden any other scooter or motorcycle other than my Buddy, so I can't speak from personal experience there except to say I would expect a similar kind of thing. Some people like shifting, others don't.

I don't think you'll be seeing a lot of automatic motorcycles any time soon. Shifting is perceived as an intrinsic part of the motorcycle experience.

[Drumwoulf]

Don't mind shifting, as my '03 Toy Echo would tell you. But after 25 years of MC riding, I took a step UP to scooters! Scooters are far more about the essence of riding. They handle better, are more flickable, easier to turn, park, stop, are better on narrow roads, city streets, and have easier slow speed handling, etc.

With MC's you get more power, more speed, but you pay for it in heavier handling, more weight, more difficulty in parking and slow speed moving, and far less MPG's (with some bikes getting considerably less than my 40 MPG car)! And when it comes to handling, even the best of sport motorcycles will feel like a truck compared to a scooter!

Going 60 on a 125cc scooter is every bit as thrilling as going 90 on a big MC cruiser, and is a lot safer and a whole lot less apt to get you a ticket!

Plus I think scooters look cooler; people generally smile when they see them on the road. While MC's, with that phony 'bad' boy' macho image nonsense, all seem to look the same now and are quite boring. You either got a johnny-racer crotch rocket or a ridiculously over-powered and overweight V-twin cruiser... Pbhattttt...!!!

Scooters are unique. Cool looking. Energy conserving. And almost always fast enough to thrill you on a ride! And have you compared purchase prices between motorcycles and scooters?

Yes, yes, motorcycles are for lemmings and followers and dorks! Scooters are for the cool people....

[AxeYrCat]

Hey, neither me nor my motorcycle fit into those categories!



But yes, as I've said, scooters are almost infinitely more practical than motorcycles.


However, I find my Triumph more engaging to ride than my scooter, and it's a much more visceral experience. Of course, your results may vary.

[Drumwoulf]

We have a 'Cruise Nite" in my town in the summer months. Lots of car people show up, also lots of bikers. ALL the bikers look the same. Black vests, bandannas, tattoos, chaps, etc.. ALL the bikes they ride (well almost all), look the same. -V-twin after V-twin after V-twin!! (With sometimes an occasional BMW...)

I ride in on my 125 Buddy and the crowd laughs and cheers and asks me to do wheelies! (Which I don't accommodate them by doing..) When I park the scoot people stop and ask me what it is, what it will do, how much does it cost, etc, etc..

The bikers stand around and drink beer and slap each other on the back of their black leather vests, and it's hard to tell one from another.
I wear whatever I want at the time, ride what I want for enjoyment instead of for 'fitting in', and throughly enjoy myself my way!

In other words, if you ain't got good self-esteem, don't ride a scooter. Join the black leather crowd! Get a big twin. Get many tats. Fit in...

[Drumwoulf]

Hey, neither me nor my motorcycle fit into those categories!

Okay, I'll make an exception for the Thruxton 900.
That bike is definitely not a lemming's bike, and is in fact more like a rideable work of art

-But please don't put any extended forks on it!

[ericalm]

I used to love driving with a manual transmission in my car. Then I moved to L.A. Not only is driving a stick here a chore, you have to replace your clutch every other year. Bah.

Shifting a scoot or MC may be more fun... for a while. But on one of those steep hills with a stoplight on the incline—no thanks!

[gt1000]

We have a 'Cruise Nite" in my town in the summer months. Lots of car people show up, also lots of bikers. ALL the bikers look the same. Black vests, bandannas, tattoos, chaps, etc.. ALL the bikes they ride (well almost all), look the same.

Um...really? It's a "cruise night" right? So, what do you expect? When I walk into a cruiser hangout I expect to see more tassels than I'd see at a stripper's convention. You're expecting something else?

Here's an idea. Why not go to a stock show sometime and see how many vegans you can find. Just don't complain about everyone wearing big hats.

I can't say it too often. There are poseurs and there are riders. I like riders no matter what they're riding. Poseurs are another story. They tend to worry too much about perception, fashion and "the look". I don't really care what you look like if you're riding. Worry about your ride, not everyone else's.

[vitaminC]

On the scooter I felt much more vulnerable.

If you're worried about feeling "vulnerable", you may want to reconsider using a two-wheeler for transportation...

[p200Kevin]

I know a lot of people who have both. I have a 1995 Ducati 900 Super Sport and recently purchased a 1980 Vespa P200E. I have ridden motorcycles (all croch rockets) for over 20 years. The scooter is new to me, but I got used to it very well on the second ride. I know I will ride the scooter a lot. Part of the issue with scooters in my mind is power, so I would suggest getting one with the biggest engine you can for the simple reason that you can get out of blind spots easier or manover in a pinch if you have to.

you also cannot simply replace the motorcycle with the scooter because the motorcycle simply goes so much faster and you can get places in a snap while the scooter will take more time. I personally have not ridden a scooter on the highway yet, but will not have a problem doing so; however, most scooter riders stay off the highways which increases your time considerably.

[ericalm]

Part of the issue with scooters in my mind is power, so I would suggest getting one with the biggest engine you can for the simple reason that you can get out of blind spots easier or manover in a pinch if you have to.

Bigger isn't necessarily better for this. A Buddy 125 probably accelerates faster than a P200 and I can guarantee it handles better. (This coming from the guy who's frequently the unofficial defender of Vespa on this site, heh.) Size is also a factor. For the kind of riding I do most of the time—commuting in heavy traffic in an urban area—I prefer a 125 or 150 because they're slightly smaller, handle better, and are easier to squeeze through tight spaces and when lane splitting.

In a more open, less-trafficked area, for extensive highway riding, or for frequent riding with a passenger, I'd go with the CCs and get something bigger. On the other hand, Alix of PEACE Scooter fame rode around the country on a Buddy 125, WOT most of the way.

[maryvu]

I like looking at all the different rides out there. I appreciate all the different bikes and the people who ride them: harleys, sportbikes, bmw's, touring bikes, mopeds, classic scoots, modern scoots, etc. Lately I've imagined myself on an older 650 bmw, Honda cafe bikes, 250 cc cruiser and even the monster 695 (my genuine dealer is Duc Seattle, I can't help it!). As romantic and cool as touring africa on a BMW is, I probably won't ever get an MC in my garage, as my multiple sclerosis sometimes affects my ability to mount and dismount even my bicycles.

In a perfect world, I would have classic scoots, modern ones and an MC or two. But the reality is that I have a mortgage, no garage, a wayward leg and most importantly no budget for such (motorized) two-wheeled nirvana! So, I'm looking forward to tinkering with the scoots.

Shifting vs. CVT? My girlfriend and I swapped rides a few months ago (Buddy for Stella). I've really enjoyed developing that extra bit of skill and feel you need to operate a manual bike. Riding Stella almost exclusively since mid September--I am HOOKED!! My next scoot will be a new/used PX, Stella or well maintained P-series. It's not a motorcycle, but having that extra control and making vroom-vroom noises at stoplights will do it for me.

Buddy is still with us, and I love splitting time between the two Genuine's available to me.

[Alix B]

Hey, about that WOT. I did ride my scooter hard and fast, but I generally left a little room-not totally open. I was cautious about keeping her going 12 weeks on the road. We cruised at 58 mph mostly. Getting itchy in some parts of the country and itchy about time meant going all the way open-but just here and there. My top speed hit 68mph, but she must have had a Red Bull that day. Usually 65 is my standard top. My GPS clocked her at 45mph on a 9,000 ft elevation-Continental Divide and Stephen's Pass, fully loaded with gear. I loved the pace of the ride, until I felt rushed. Only a few times did I feel unsafe and wish for bigger CC's. But that was in the Reservation lands and on the byways of Montana-both places where people drive way above top speed and the only other route is the highway. And they drive with complete disregard for my life or scooter

[mattgordon]

I find scoots to be a lot more fun. With a motorcycle you are signing up for a lifetime of shifting. It may be fun at first but it gets old real fast. That is all you do is shift and shift and shift some more. A scoot is twist and go fun. mmute a short distance and run arrands buy a 125cc to a 200cc scoot. Two wheelers are about fun and shifting five times after every stop is not that fun. Think about it.

Very good points...I've had several motorcycles and always grow tired of them in about 2 years, never realizing it was the CONSTANT shifting, (as well as the engine heat) I grew tired of. Great analysis...I'm all scooter now!

[ericalm]

Hey, about that WOT. I did ride my scooter hard and fast, but I generally left a little room-not totally open. I was cautious about keeping her going 12 weeks on the road. We cruised at 58 mph mostly. Getting itchy in some parts of the country and itchy about time meant going all the way open-but just here and there. My top speed hit 68mph, but she must have had a Red Bull that day. Usually 65 is my standard top. My GPS clocked her at 45mph on a 9,000 ft elevation-Continental Divide and Stephen's Pass, fully loaded with gear. I loved the pace of the ride, until I felt rushed. Only a few times did I feel unsafe and wish for bigger CC's. But that was in the Reservation lands and on the byways of Montana-both places where people drive way above top speed and the only other route is the highway. And they drive with complete disregard for my life or scooter

Okay, let me alter my previous statement to "at almost WOT all the way!"

I think the Buddy 150 may provide a little more torque for this kind of riding—not much. And for riding on an interstate/large freeway, I'd still recommend more CCs.

[Dibber]

I sure did, the scooter seemed very quick in the turns and wobbly at high speeds too. But after riding the scoot for awhile, I started to appreciate the quick turning and the high speed feel seemed to mellow out and now I love the scooter much more than any of my last 6 motorcycles. As one person put to me. It is more fun riding a slow machine fast, than having to ride a fast machine slow. Good luck shopping.

[ericalm]

I sure did, the scooter seemed very quick in the turns and wobbly at high speeds too. But after riding the scoot for awhile, I started to appreciate the quick turning and the high speed feel seemed to mellow out and now I love the scooter much more than any of my last 6 motorcycles. As one person put to me. It is more fun riding a slow machine fast, than having to ride a fast machine slow. Good luck shopping.

Honestly, I'm wary of doing high speeds (over 65mph indicated) on anything with wheels smaller than 12" (I'm talking on the freeway, streets or in normal urban riding conditions). Sure, you can get the scooter that fast, but you really sacrifice stability and the ability to maneuver. Even when the ride's smooth, if you're riding WOT your options are limited by not being able to accelerate past or around a hazard. My Vespa is much more stable than the Buddy at those speeds and has a higher limit, but I'm still uncomfortable with that kind of riding.

This may just be me, though, and my overall lack of experience with any 2-wheeler at those kinds of speeds. If I get something bigger someday, well, we'll see. The MP3 500 is pretty damn cool.

[gt1000]

I sure did, the scooter seemed very quick in the turns and wobbly at high speeds too. But after riding the scoot for awhile, I started to appreciate the quick turning and the high speed feel seemed to mellow out and now I love the scooter much more than any of my last 6 motorcycles. As one person put to me. It is more fun riding a slow machine fast, than having to ride a fast machine slow. Good luck shopping.

Honestly, I'm wary of doing high speeds (over 65mph indicated) on anything with wheels smaller than 12" (I'm talking on the freeway, streets or in normal urban riding conditions). Sure, you can get the scooter that fast, but you really sacrifice stability and the ability to maneuver. Even when the ride's smooth, if you're riding WOT your options are limited by not being able to accelerate past or around a hazard. My Vespa is much more stable than the Buddy at those speeds and has a higher limit, but I'm still uncomfortable with that kind of riding.

This may just be me, though, and my overall lack of experience with any 2-wheeler at those kinds of speeds. If I get something bigger someday, well, we'll see. The MP3 500 is pretty damn cool.

It's not just you Eric, I feel the same way. It all comes down to choosing the right tool for whatever job you have in mind. I tried to write a similar post in the thread about wanting an additional 5-10 mph top end from the Buddy 125 but never posted it. The Buddy is a fantastic tool for certain jobs but it's not the answer for sustained high speed riding. Let's say you can get your Buddy's top speed up to 80: would you really want to ride that little thing at 80? And how will its brakes respond to a panic stop at that speed? Is the suspension up to the task?

Let me put it this way: for my commute on surface streets, riding a big CC bike like a Harley, or even my GT, is kind of like using a chain saw to carve the holiday turkey. A chain saw is a great tool but it's not anyone's first choice for turkey carving. That's one reason the Buddy is the first choice for the daily commute.

Highway speeds on a Buddy is kind of the opposite. To be a bit less extreme, perhaps like using a hand saw to take out that dead tree in the back yard.

If given the choice, you wouldn't choose a soup spoon to defend yourself in fight to the death. Be careful how you use all of your tools, including your Buddy.