Modern Buddy

Mine went out.

2 other bikes in the shop right now with bad stators.

All sick scoots are 2007 Buddy 125s, around the 3000 mile mark.

Anybody else?

How are they sick?
What are the symptoms?
What are they doing to correct the problem?

Mine kept dying @ stop lights (died @ idle) and seems like it did not want to crank.

Seems like a fuel system issue at first but every thing checks out. Its the stator.

I just thought it was the cold weather. The bad stators are corroded/rusted.

My shop is replacing them under warranty.

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Mine kept dying @ stop lights (died @ idle) and seems like it did not want to crank.

Seems like a fuel system issue at first but every thing checks out. Its the stator.

I just thought it was the cold weather. The bad stators are corroded/rusted.

My shop is replacing them under warranty.

Is this a common symptom of it being cold? I have new Buddy with under 100 miles, and experienced very similar problems, but it was 4 degrees Fahrenheit when I had the problem.

Its not the cold.

In the past it started/ran in sub freezing temps like a champ.

When the symptoms started @ first I thought it was the cold. But it continued Tuesday (a wacky a 76 degree day here in Nashville) After the tech went thru the entire fuel system. Tech hooked up a inductive meter and saw the stator was not generating a significat charge @ idle.

After getting a visual on the part he found all the bad stators were corroded.

Just curious - do you park in a garage or outside?

-jetboy

Parked mostly under a carport or locked-up in an non-heated garage.

I think a few people have reported the stator problem. I assume they're all being replaced under warranty. Have there been any problems/delays getting the parts?

What are statos? I have a new 2007 Buddy 125 so I'm concerned.

my 07 50cc was acting up like that somtimes when it was cold ...... maybe it wasnt the cold .... Ill have to keep the stator thing in mind ... havent rode since Thankgiving .... @#$%#$& cold ... @#$%# snow/ice ... I would ride in the cold but I would have to push Buddy about a block to get up to a clear sidewalk that I would have to ride on for another block to get to the 1st clear street GRRRRR

What are statos? I have a new 2007 Buddy 125 so I'm concerned.

I think its part of the alternator. Either that or it keeps the hamsters on their wheel. I also have a 2007 buddy. Hopefully if this is a wide spread problem Genuine will issue a recall so I dont have to wait for my scooter to die to get it fixed under warranty. Has Genuine/PGO ever issued a recall on a part in the past?

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Mine went out.

2 other bikes in the shop right now with bad stators.

All sick scoots are 2007 Buddy 125s, around the 3000 mile mark.

Anybody else?

I'm 500 miles beyond 3K and have not had an issue with the stators. I'll keep an eye out for trouble. Thanks for the post.

im at 5800+ and have not had any problums with that thank goodness

mine has 3150 on the clock.

I will let you know when the bike is fixed.

It has been in the shop since tuesday.

They gave me a rattler as a loaner

Stator is number 3.

i think sophie may have that bug. she was in the shop saturday for an oil change and has died twice since then, both times when i was off the gas, coming to a stop. she started right back up, but now you have me wondering. she just turned 2500 miles. back to the shop i go tomorrow for them to hook up that meter.

thanks for the heads up.

Before I go anywhere with this, you need to understand that I'm not a mechanical person. When I had a garage I had no problems with routine servicing but anything beyond that was a real test. As far as I was concerned, electrical issues were the worst.

Anyway, if we're talking about the charging system here, the stator is the stationary component that works with the rotor. Both are wound with electrical coils and the stator, working with the spinning rotor, induces current. Seems to me that old fashioned ignition systems (distributor) worked this way too and that moisture in the distributor would seriously effect the engine.

Judging by what I'm reading in this thread, the coils are corroding for some reason and that has an effect on the charge. My guess is that this corrosion has little or nothing to do with your mileage and more to do with how long the scoot has existed and the climate it's ridden and stored in. I've had my 125 for 14 months now and am closing in on 3000 miles with no stator issues. If these are 2007 scoots they've been on the road X number of months less than my 2006 but have had the problem. Doesn't mean my scoot is immune, it may just mean that arid Denver is less likely to see problems like this than, say, Seattle or Miami. Or, it may just take longer. Then again, I seem to remember Keys having some sort of stator problem and AZ is even more arid than Denver. If memory serves though, I don't think Keys' issue was corrosion.

I'm hoping some dealers or mechanics chime in. This, to me, is not a serious issue and, IMO, nowhere near worth a recall unless it's seen in epidemic proportions. If that happens, some sort of re-design might be in order.

The stator plate is basically what you'd call an alternator in a car, it's a cluster of coils that convert the mechanical energy created by the engine into electrical energy to power your lights/ignition system, etc.

In a scooter, it's usually mounted under a flywheel mounted to the crankshaft, so when the engine's turning, magnets in the flywheel create a electromagnetic charge in the coils. The ignition points are usually mounted to the stator plate and the crankshaft controls their opening/closing directly, which is a really nice simple way to do it that avoids timing belts/chains, but I'm not sure if that's how it works on a Buddy.

So, if there's a bad coil or coils in your stator, the following things could happen:

1) your battery wouldn't charge
2) some/all lights/horn/etc would not work, or be dimmer
3) your ignition wouldn't work (no electrical charge to the points/sparkplug)

Although depending on how the electrical system is set up, any one of those things could happen without the others being affected, and any of those things could happen for other reasons. So it's tricky to troubleshoot.

GT, good points (no pun intended), but these things are generally ridden in Taiwan, which has a pretty harsh climate (monsoon, dry heat, and even snow in the mountains) so I would think they'd be designed right. And they're left in the rain/heat all day.

Generally, (ever since having a Fiat in the 80s with US-market air conditioning) I'd blame the DOT or the US importer for making electrical changes to the bike that the charging system can't handle, but it seems like the Buddys are pretty much the same spec as their asian BuBu counterparts... Genuine didn't even have to change the turn signals.

This is totally a longshot, and probably irrelevant because it would affect the charging system rather than the ignition system, but if it's exclusively a '07 problem, is it possible that the power outlet has something to do with it? Is there any correlation between heavy power outlet usage and stator failure? Was the power outlet added to the BuBu last year, or was that a custom item for the Buddy? Again, that's very unlikely, though if we find that everyone having stator problems was running a GPS, MP3 player, and a heated rainsuit on short trips, it might explain something. : )

Also, severe cold could cause problems unrelated to the stator, so if you're thinking it's just the cold, wait to see what it's like on a warm day before you go demanding a new stator.

Bb.

I have never used my 12v outlet.

Before everyone goes shouting "RECALL" everyone needs to take a nice deep breath.

We have heard NOTHING about this from PGO - where these bikes have been on the road a LOT longer with many more miles. I have met their engineers and they wouldn't let this fester.

So far there is one person talking about 3 bikes sitting at ONE shop. I don't know the techs in question or the shop in question, but I do know I've got over 80 Buddy 125's on the road, many of which have more than 3K on the odo and we've not had a single similar problem. These bikes get stored outside in the rain, ridden in the snow and have had stereos and GPS's installed etc. No failures. The world famous Ghetto-Buddy survived over 3800 miles bashing around the 'hood with a car stereo and speakers wired directly into the battery. That bike has been completely rebuilt and still runs fine today.

Until I see stators that are TESTED as bad by Genuine, I'm not believing anything. I'm way more inclined to think there may be a disconnected plug or a short in a wiring harness against the frame.

When these issues pop up all from one dealer it strongly suggests there's a guy out there doing something (non-malicious) on PDI that's causing the problem. I'm sure the technicians at Genuine will get it sorted out and the customers will be back on the road asap.

Thanks for the voice of reason Phil.

I'm under the impression, maybe wrong, that most of these smaller scooters are essentially pretty low tech comparatively. If that's the case, then they run in the cold like most other vehicles I had in the 60's in upstate NY - a VW, a Triumph, a Fiat and an MGB. They all needed to be thoroughly warm before you'd get a good throttle response. Here in Seattle, my Buddy has stalled out on only one morning with temps in the mid 30's, but I was in a hurry that day and rushed it down the road. I use Sea Foam, run it a couple of commutes a week in winter and it seems more reliable than the above mentioned vehicles.

Im not trying to be an alarmist.

My bike is getting fixed.

I just wanted to see if it is widespread issue. Or just something in the air in nashville.

Once again this has nothing to do with cold weather operation. It was @ its worst on a 75 degree day.

pocphil wrote:So far there is one person talking about 3 bikes sitting at ONE shop.

I think that's odd, too. I wonder if those three scoots have consecutive VINs or if they're random.

jrsjr wrote:

pocphil wrote:So far there is one person talking about 3 bikes sitting at ONE shop.

I think that's odd, too. I wonder if those three scoots have consecutive VINs or if they're random.

I doubt that has anything to do with it, but now I am curious, how shuffled up do VINs get by the time PGO builds them, moves them around the warehouse, sorts them by color, packs them into containers, sends them here, they get shuffled around the Genuine Warehouse and then out to dealers... Do dealers actually see consecutive VINs? presumably theyr'e made in batches by color and a dealer would only get a few of the same color in one shipment... But it's possible. Neat question. Phil? Anyone?

Thanks for the voice of reason Phil.

Did I miss something here? I can't recall a single, unreasonable point in this thread.

illnoise wrote:I doubt that has anything to do with it...

I agree, that was a wild guess, even for me.

The thing that caught my eye was the OP's follow-up post about the bad stators being corroded. With all the folks we have riding Buddys, if the stators were that poorly made, we'd have already had a bunch of complaints, which we haven't. That's what made me wonder if maybe something unusual (chemical spill, batch of bad materials, or something of that ilk) happened to a small batch of stators that caused them to corrode.

P.S. I just double-checked our archives and I can only find one confirmed case of a bad stator. Elm creek smith reported a stator with a bad pulse circuit. That's it. The only other suspect stator belonged to keys and that turned out to be a ground issue, not a bad stator.

Out of all the Buddys we have sold in the last 2 years I have only seen one with a stator problem. It was an '07 that had on intermittent no spark condition. It had an intermittent open circuit in the trigger coil which is part of the stator assy. I Don't think any of us have anything to worry about when it comes to our stators. My 06 Orange Buddy is still kicking after a lot of hard fun riding. We have fewer problems with the Buddys than any other scooter that we sell.

Scooters Of Boise
701 Fulton
Boise Idaho 83702
208 429-1465
[email protected]

Bike is still in the shop. Still waiting on parts

Genuine is slooooooooooo. When it come to parts.

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Bike is still in the shop. Still waiting on parts...

We as a group could track down a totalled, insurance-job Buddy, pull the engine from it, build a shipping crate, and hold the motor for ModernBuddy emergencies. If we could get one for, say, $600, we would only have to all kick in, say, $10-20 each, we'd have a back-up motor we could drop-ship to the needy member's shop. The person who needed the motor would pay shipping, that would be their responsibility (of course, they'd have to ante in on the motor). Then, we'd need to have somebody to fix the broken motor (or buy another working one). I'm thinking, Scooterworks, since they are hardwired to Genuine Scooters.

This would all require some effort to start up, but one we did it, nobody on this board need ever be without their Buddy again for more than a week.

Hmm... I've made this sound so easy that it makes me wonder why it hasn't been done before. I guess, as with everything else, the devil is in the details. What if somebody dishonest got our motor then didn't send back their broken motor? I guess we'd have to work through shops to avoid that problem and not all shops would be amenable to this idea.

Also, how much labor would a shop have to charge you to swap out a motor, anyway? If a bike was dead for no obvious reason, they could avoid charges for parts and troubleshooting labor and repair labor. Instead, they would charge you to just swap out the motor. So, a big question is, How much would that cost? It might be more than, in this case, the cost of replacing the stator, but at least you would be sure to have your scooter back on the road in a week. That would be worth something to folks who are really using the scooter for transportation.

I once suggested something similar on our "cousin site, Modern Vespa, and didn't get much interest, but I think that was because a wrecked Vespa was still a very expensive purchase and it's harder to swap the engine in and out of a Vespa than it is a Buddy.

I dunno, this is just an idea. I'm not married to it. Actually, I'd like to hear from anybody who has a good idea of the shop charges involved or any other aspect of the idea. Would you think about kicking a little money into a kitty sort of as an insurance against being without your Buddy for an extended period of time? Anybody?

or,,,,

Genuine can keep more parts in stock.

I have been waiting since september for a passenger foot rest!

Going on week 5 without my scoot.

Waiting on piston clamps and seals, according to my dealer.

RIDICULOUS.

Joker

jrsjr wrote:

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Bike is still in the shop. Still waiting on parts...

We as a group could track down a totalled, insurance-job Buddy, pull the engine from it, build a shipping crate, and hold the motor for ModernBuddy emergencies.
...
Anybody?

details

jrsjr wrote:

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Bike is still in the shop. Still waiting on parts...

We as a group could track down a totalled, insurance-job Buddy, pull the engine from it, build a shipping crate, and hold the motor for ModernBuddy emergencies. If we could get one for, say, $600, we would only have to all kick in, say, $10-20 each, we'd have a back-up motor we could drop-ship to the needy member's shop. The person who needed the motor would pay shipping, that would be their responsibility (of course, they'd have to ante in on the motor). Then, we'd need to have somebody to fix the broken motor (or buy another working one). I'm thinking, Scooterworks, since they are hardwired to Genuine Scooters.

This would all require some effort to start up, but one we did it, nobody on this board need ever be without their Buddy again for more than a week.

Hmm... I've made this sound so easy that it makes me wonder why it hasn't been done before. I guess, as with everything else, the devil is in the details. What if somebody dishonest got our motor then didn't send back their broken motor? I guess we'd have to work through shops to avoid that problem and not all shops would be amenable to this idea.

Also, how much labor would a shop have to charge you to swap out a motor, anyway? If a bike was dead for no obvious reason, they could avoid charges for parts and troubleshooting labor and repair labor. Instead, they would charge you to just swap out the motor. So, a big question is, How much would that cost? It might be more than, in this case, the cost of replacing the stator, but at least you would be sure to have your scooter back on the road in a week. That would be worth something to folks who are really using the scooter for transportation.

I once suggested something similar on our "cousin site, Modern Vespa, and didn't get much interest, but I think that was because a wrecked Vespa was still a very expensive purchase and it's harder to swap the engine in and out of a Vespa than it is a Buddy.

I dunno, this is just an idea. I'm not married to it. Actually, I'd like to hear from anybody who has a good idea of the shop charges involved or any other aspect of the idea. Would you think about kicking a little money into a kitty sort of as an insurance against being without your Buddy for an extended period of time? Anybody?

I do think this is an interesting idea. I'm wondering how it could be pulled off, logistically and financially. I know, for instance, my dealer has a few wrecked Buddys in his garage.

My questions are these: Most people don't need a whole engine. It seems like the expense of buying and shipping one would be disproportionate to any problem an owner would be having. Would we really ship the whole thing or just part it out as needed? If parting out, who would do the work?

This idea does have me thinking of some other possibilities, though...

ericalm wrote:This idea does have me thinking of some other possibilities, though...

Yeah, it may be impractical. It'd be interesting to know whether it could be done. So, now I'm curious, what ideas are you kicking around, Eric?

Here's a salvage Buddy that isn't even totalled, just bunged up by incompetent thieves. We could get lotsa parts off of that.

jrsjr wrote:

ericalm wrote:This idea does have me thinking of some other possibilities, though...

Yeah, it may be impractical. It'd be interesting to know whether it could be done. So, now I'm curious, what ideas are you kicking around, Eric?

I'm going to look into a bit more and talk to a couple dealers before I toss them out in the open.

GOT MY SCOOT BACK TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bad stator replaced under warranty.

Thank you, East Side scooters!

Genuine is too sloooooooo with parts.

Congrats on gettin' your scoot back, Dr. Jenkins.

You know, I've had to replace quite a bit if the wiring harness on my Buddy since its become part of my life. The wires themselves seem to be rather brittle and under the constant pounding I give the scooter, they just break inside the insulation. Is it perhaps possible that this might be the source of so many of these niggling electrical gremlins folks seem to be experiencing? I have done my work with slightly larger diameter, good quality wire and don't seem to have to re-fix...poor quality wiring loom, maybe...?

--Keys

we have has one stator that needed to be replaced last season, but it was on a buddy 50cc. We haven't had any problems with the Stators on any of the 250+ buddies we sold in 2007. We have customers riding on salty wet roads right now in Salt Lake City, so we will see if we experience any stator related issues this coming spring. Are you sure it's not a bad voltage regulator or CDI unit? I have seen problems with the voltage regulators in the past on other makes/ models. I do have to tell you guys that I have been impressed with the Genuine product line, and we have only done a handful of warranty claims in 2007. I can't say the same about some other brands of bikes we sell or have sold in the past. Happy scooting!

Cold, Cold? What is this cold that you speak of? Its the dead of winter here- it was freezing today! (68*f) I almost had to wear a jacket- and almost thought about changing my flip flops for tennies. OMG. What type of cold are we taking about here? Should I park my scooter inside to keep it nice and toasty? (o'course, it will by 90* by the time I get it in late Feb.)

Back to the shop today

Now it is something different.

NOW what??

--Keys

Sputters really bad under a load when you open the trottle.

Yes, I let it warm up!

Put new gas in it.

Drained the carb.

Checked air filter.

Nothing improved. Its getting worse.

Mine been in the shop for a while. Just heard that they replaced the stator.

How many miles? Could be rollers. Had their been any symptoms before?

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Sputters really bad under a load when you open the trottle.

Yes, I let it warm up!

Put new gas in it.

Drained the carb.

Checked air filter.

Nothing improved. Its getting worse.

3150 miles.

Worked on it some more during lunch before it went to the dealer.

As far as I can tell it is the seat/luggage compartment.

I was going to do key's evap mod to see if that would help.

So I removed the seat/box to get to the canister. I warmed it up and rode sans the seat. To make sure it was still doing it.

Ran like a champ.

Seat/box back on, runs like poop.

Chalked the bottom of the box (to see if it hitting anything. Could not find were the box was pushing, rubbing or touching anything.

Now it is at the dealer.

So,,,,,

Bad seats, who else?

Okay. Here's what I have learned. Mine also appeared to get better when I removed the seat and bucket. I put grease on all the places under the seat that might interfere with the seat bucket and replaced it. I removed it again and by seeing where the grease was, I could tell what it was interfering with. In my case, it happened to be the positive lead going to the starter relay. I loosened the nut and rotated the lead so it was out of the way. It was better.

What I also have discovered is the wiring loom is brittle. I have had the hot wire to the coil crack and break INSIDE THE INSULATION several times. I have been forced to replace about 8" of the wire with good quality wire. Be aware that you cannot SEE the breaks...they are inside the insulation, making them VERY difficult to find. I have also been forced to re-route the wiring loom alongside the frame to prevent the seat bucket from interfering with it.

To test this possibility, remove the seat/bucket ass'y and with the scooter running, wiggle the wiring loom where the coil lead junctions with it. You may find a change in how the scooter is running when you do this.

--Keys

Keys wrote:...I have had the hot wire to the coil crack and break INSIDE THE INSULATION several times. I have been forced to replace about 8" of the wire with good quality wire. Be aware that you cannot SEE the breaks...they are inside the insulation, making them VERY difficult to find. I have also been forced to re-route the wiring loom alongside the frame to prevent the seat bucket from interfering with it.

To test this possibility, remove the seat/bucket ass'y and with the scooter running, wiggle the wiring loom where the coil lead junctions with it. You may find a change in how the scooter is running when you do this.

Keys, I'm trying to make sure I understand. Was your seat (or anything else) actually resting on that wire to the coil?

Also, are your and Leeroy Jenkins scooters both 2006 Buddys?

Thanks!

-John

I couldn't tell for sure if the seat bucket was actually resting on that particular coil wire, but it WAS rubbing against the loom in a couple of places which could have conceivably put undue stress on said wire. I personally think the wire is too small for the load. I think the amount of current and heat combined with vibration simply makes the wire brittle over time and usage.

--Keys