Modern Buddy

I started in 2007 and then it seemed this scooter craze'' just exploded nationwide.

Now years later so many scooter shops closed during and post-recession.

Many scooter forums are just plain dead, some gone.

If I see anything going down the road it's a motorcycle, not a scooter.

What is your perception? Is riding a scooter becoming a passing fad?

Whimscootie wrote:I started in 2007 and then it seemed this scooter craze'' just exploded nationwide.

Now years later so many scooter shops closed during and post-recession.

Many scooter forums are just plain dead, some gone.

If I see anything going down the road it's a motorcycle, not a scooter.

What is your perception? Is riding a scooter becoming a passing fad?

Several factors are at play here.

Fuel is cheaper now than it was a few years ago. People aren't as worried about saving money and using less fuel. Before the Saudis removed the price floor from OPEC, it used to cost me $65 to fill my pickup. Now, it costs me $45. That's a big savings and takes a bit of the financial pain of owning a car away. I suspect that fuel prices will rise again soon though.Oil shale production has survived the price war and the industry tone has shifted with regard to the process. Unless the Saudis intend to keep prices low to continue applying pressure on the Russian oil industry, I suspect we will see fuel prices rise again and fuel sipping scooters will likely become attractive again.

This has happened before. Think of the oil embargo in 1973. Oil got really expensive and fuel became expensive and scarce. That helped the moped ride in popularity. They did well through the 70s, but sales all but flatlined when fuel became affordable and more available again. Scooters seem to have more staying power thanks to their perceptions in popular culture, but who knows, maybe e-bikes will someday eclipse our scooters in the manner that scooters eclipsed mopeds back then.

Another factor is the rise of social media. Facebook and Twitter have drawn away a significant number of folks who would otherwise communicate through forums. This hasn't just affected scooter forums; the trend of user mighration to alternative social media is visible on all forums. I know of several clubs that moved from forums and message boards to Facebook. I don't participate, as I consider Facebook vapid and disingenuous and have little regard for Mr. Zuckerberg. However, I recognize the shift in popular opinion.

It could also have something to do with the millenials. They really don't care about much other than their tablets and smartphones. They can be social without needing transportation. A car/scooter used to be a means of going to meet up with friends. Now, just jump online for your social interactions. Maybe I'm overly cynical about them, but I think they would surrender all their freedoms so long as those in charge let them have their internet fix. But, I'd be delighted if they proved me wrong.

The scooter population around these parts seems to be growing every year, but then, we have year round riding weather. The city government helps by creating more and more motorcycle/scooter specific parking zones.

az_slynch wrote:It could also have something to do with the millenials. They really don't care about much other than their tablets and smartphones. They can be social without needing transportation. A car/scooter used to be a means of going to meet up with friends. Now, just jump online for your social interactions. Maybe I'm overly cynical about them, but I think they would surrender all their freedoms so long as those in charge let them have their internet fix. But, I'd be delighted if they proved me wrong.

This. More and more teens / young adults probably get their fill of interaction online rather than face to face. When I was a lad, my CT90 (and later CB550F) were exactly that - the means by which I could go meet up with friends beyond walking distance. Now I have to occasionally boot my youngest teenager off the computer to get him to interact socially when friends or family come over.

Here in my neck of the woods, I keep seeing more and more scooters. Of coarse, we can ride year round. I'm also seeing more older guys and women riding trike scooters. The shop where I bought my Hooligan went out of business last December, but I think there were other factors involved that caused that. Some of the trike scooters I've seen look like they were originally built as two wheel scoots and converted to trikes.

Parking and a billion people moving to Denver is increasing a lot of scooter use, esp. 50cc.

Gas will get more expensive at some point, but is being kept fairly low at the moment. Politics aside, it's a finite resource, so, it hast to at some point.

Gas prices, millenials, social media, location ... all of it.

I recently did a cost comparison of how many miles I have to put on my scooter to make it worth while verses the cost of ownership. These fluctuations in gas prices make a big difference in whether money motivates you to have a scooter or to get rid of it.

As Skully said... in the heart of Denver, now that the weather is nice, scooters are everywhere. But parking is hard to find, parking tickets are expensive, and scooters feel safer/easier in the heart of a city where streets are smaller and slower than on those multilane/faster urban roads.

Of my 10 mile commute from city to burbs, most of the scooters I see are within 2 miles of my house, where the population is denser and roads are older and tighter. Outside of Denver proper, scooters are much less common.

Just out of curiosity, what do people mean when they say millenial? I believe I'm considered one (on the older side), as I'm 32.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

Millennials (also known as the Millennial Generation[1] or Generation Y) are the demographic cohort following Generation X. There are no precise dates when the generation starts and ends. Researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from the early 1980s to the early 2000s.

I recently moved to San Diego from Dublin and see a lot of scooters here. Certainly more than Dublin, where it's too damn wet all the time. I can imagine a few issues that could cause a decline though:

If you view scooters as recreation, than the last 7 years have been pretty rough on discretionary income. It's easier to live without a scooter than without a car (source: my wife and I currently share one scooter. It's OK, but I can't wait for my car2go card to show up)

If you view scooters as cheap transportation, gas is pretty cheap now. I actually think it ought to be about $15-$20 a gallon to pay for its many negative externalities, but this is a very unpopular view in the US.

This is more true on a several-decade timespan, but most of the US seems to be a vast suburban hellscape with very wide streets where everyone drives SUV's way too fast while texting. Before people judge me too harshly - I grew up in various US suburban hellholes, and only lived in Dublin for 2.5 years. I recently was more or less dragged back by circumstance. Anyway, this is not a conducive environment to scooting. It's not fun, feels dangerous, and drivers are rude. I dislike riding in SD's many suburbs, but in the older neighborhoods (North Park, South Park, Hillcrest, etc.) it's perfect.

Remember also that scooters were long meant for young, frugal consumers. I believe Vespa largely survived off teenagers for several decades. Given that the last ten years or so have seen pretty strong limitations on when and how 16 and 17 year olds can get a license, that's going to cut in to scooter use. That's just for cars; if you need a motorcycle license there are other restrictions. In California you need to take a ~$200 16 hour safety course before you can get a motorcycle license, and anything over 50cc requires said license. I think this is good because riding is dangerous, but it's going to mean fewer people with licenses.

Also, I do like seeing friends, especially in person! I think the above statement statement was quite rude and ageist

"They really don't care about much other than their tablets and smartphones".

I care about the environment, social equality, beer, encryption, and plenty of other things, just like baby boomers, gen x'ers, and anyone else. I'm sure at some point there was hand-wringing about the telephone replacing in-person interaction, but people still continued to meet up.

Anyway, I see loads of scooters, but if you don't it would make sense to advocate for:

*More urban, walkable, ridable, cities

*Better fuel taxes that account for the societal cost of pollution and drilling/fracking

*More stringent driving tests for automobiles than for motorcycles (it's ridiculous we let any idiot drive a two ton death machine, and require _more_ training for a lightweight two-wheeled motorcycle/scooter)

*The elimination taxpayer-subsidized parking. Why the hell is an apartment building required to add parking for my apartment? Answer: because NIMBY's in the area bitched and moaned about reduced free street parking. It's stupid, expensive, and just a sop to lazy cheapskates who think the government should provide them with free car storage. Parking in a city should never be free - after all, where is the land free?

I imagine that my views will be very unpopular here, but here goes. Just to throw some fuel on the fire - I've been a relatively dedicated cyclist for about 15 years, and have lived car-free for the last 6 or 7.

Also, I do like seeing friends, especially in person! I think the above statement statement was quite rude and ageist Quote:

"They really don't care about much other than their tablets and smartphones".

I care about the environment, social equality, beer, encryption, and plenty of other things, just like baby boomers, gen x'ers, and anyone else. I'm sure at some point there was hand-wringing about the telephone replacing in-person interaction, but people still continued to meet up.

Well, no one was trying to be rude; this type of thing (the replacement of actual physical interaction with internet/virtual interaction) has been observed by many people. We could discuss it here, I'm sure, for days, weeks and years.

My main observation of the comments here is that there is a great deal of variables that can influence scooting in one's area.

Is it on the decline? Statistically, I'd say yes but whether that impacts your area is dependent on economic factors, the weather and other things. A hike in gas prices could quickly bring us to another "boom"; one never knows.

bikerbrewer wrote:Just out of curiosity, what do people mean when they say millenial? I believe I'm considered one (on the older side), as I'm 32.

You'd enjoy this article. It's geared for us!

Why '80s Babies Are Different Than Other Millennials

Also, what happened after 2007 was 2008, and the near failure of the world's financial systems.
Sales of all non-necessities came to a halt and has only begun to grow again in some US markets.

sunshinen wrote:Gas prices, millenials, social media, location ... all of it.

I recently did a cost comparison of how many miles I have to put on my scooter to make it worth while verses the cost of ownership. These fluctuations in gas prices make a big difference in whether money motivates you to have a scooter or to get rid of it.

That seems like a pretty easy number to figure out right?

I paid $3000 for my bike, I laid it down at 9408 miles so that's less than 33cents per mile of ownership!

I've had one belt, one set of tires and 3 oil changes in that time which I have not factored into the cost.

I may have overreacted regarding the rudeness of the statement, but saying a group of people only cares about phones and tablets implies they don't care about family, friends, art, love, justice, etc. and that grates a bit. I guess it relates to the fact that there's this idea anyone born after 1980 is a vapid moron, and it stings. Of course, plenty of folks _are_ vapid morons, but they come in all ages.

Whimscootie wrote: Now years later so many scooter shops closed during and post-recession.

I'm not sure that the recession is over. Scooters, like all power sport items are discretionary expenditures - the first to go during periods of economic insecurity.

Elder Scoot wrote:

Whimscootie wrote: Now years later so many scooter shops closed during and post-recession.

I'm not sure that the recession is over. Scooters, like all power sport items are discretionary expenditures - the first to go during periods of economic insecurity.

For what it's worth my wife and I bought a scooter specifically in order to be frugal. Cheaper gas, cheaper insurance, cheaper parking, cheaper maintenance (except for those tires... sheesh) We're probably odd, though.

Elder Scoot wrote:

Whimscootie wrote: Now years later so many scooter shops closed during and post-recession.

I'm not sure that the recession is over. Scooters, like all power sport items are discretionary expenditures - the first to go during periods of economic insecurity.

While this may be true for some people, for quite a few others, it's a chosen life style and a main means of transportation, not just a recreational thing. If I ever found myself in dire straits, I'd give up my car first before the scooter.

I suspect Uber and Lyft are having a negative impact as well.

k1dude wrote:I suspect Uber and Lyft are having a negative impact as well.

I wonder if Scoot Net in San Francisco is going to have an impact. There's a pretty good article about Scoot Net on page 106 of MotoUsa's latest magazine. There's also an interesting shootout between five entry-level motorcycles that starts on page 18.

Two interesting articles, jrsjr. And as the resident apologist for SYM, I like that they included the T2 ini the shoot out.

I just went through 7 years of data for NYS Vehicle Registration in Force, and the numbers have remained remarkably stable for both motorcycles and mopeds (~345,000; ~12,000).

I know we have a quite a few of non-brand associated dealers in our immediate area (they sell all the Kymcos and knocks offs and the like); the other dealers are all motorcycle shops. The closest scoot dealer is a Genuine dealer in BigCollege town almost an hour away, and he has been doing very well, but sells mostly 50cc Buddies (I was surprised because the town itself is not great for that size bike, but they are used heavily on campus)

The one thing I noticed when I was shopping for scooters is that they have gotten big - both in terms of engine size and height. I had more then one dealer suggest to me that I just go with a motorcycle and get it lowered. Most dealers I spoke to said they are just seeing more "typical" cycle riders that don't want to learn "how to really ride," so they go with a scooter - and as a result, they are making them look more like a motorcycle then a scooter. I know I have passed more then one scooter on the road and did a double take.

Still a steady parade of scoots in this town.... R

I think it may have more to do with the scooter "appeal" or lack of appeal. USA had years of brilliant Harley marketing and until a major scooter manufacturer can break into that market, most people will flock to the "cooler" looking rides. However this mainly applies to the not so urban cities so I doubt they are seeing a decline in the scooter population. I can say where I live it feels like I am the only one with a scooter, and given I ride it pretty much every day, I probably have a nickname given to me by the locals. I love riding the scoot but if the decline continues it will be tough as there is only one local dealer/service shop and if that goes I dont think Ill be able to go without a local expert. Then I'll l have to switch to the Harley club so I can fit in...Here's to higher gas prices! Haha

jrsjr wrote: I wonder if Scoot Net in San Francisco is going to have an impact.

I love the Scoot Network concept - electric scoots on demand for one-way rental. Alas I don't use them as much now that I have my Buddy 125.

It seems to be somewhat of an area thing , too. There are places I go and see a scoot as one in 10, and other parts where I might see one scooter all day.
There is still some "stigma" to scooters, but it gets better every day. I ride my Kawy to work Monday and get the wave, another motorcycle Tuesday, same guy, same wave...Weds I am on the Stella and no wave...So, I wave anyway....eventually he waved back. It works

DrScoot wrote:I think it may have more to do with the scooter "appeal" or lack of appeal. USA had years of brilliant Harley marketing and until a major scooter manufacturer can break into that market, most people will flock to the "cooler" looking rides. However this mainly applies to the not so urban cities so I doubt they are seeing a decline in the scooter population. I can say where I live it feels like I am the only one with a scooter, and given I ride it pretty much every day, I probably have a nickname given to me by the locals. I love riding the scoot but if the decline continues it will be tough as there is only one local dealer/service shop and if that goes I dont think Ill be able to go without a local expert. Then I'll l have to switch to the Harley club so I can fit in...Here's to higher gas prices! Haha

It's funny you say that because I regularly scoot to the HD store less than a mile away just to hang out and chat up other riders. No one has tossed me out yet. In fact, I get quite a few questions about my scooter!

libwitch wrote:The one thing I noticed when I was shopping for scooters is that they have gotten big - both in terms of engine size and height. I had more then one dealer suggest to me that I just go with a motorcycle and get it lowered. Most dealers I spoke to said they are just seeing more "typical" cycle riders that don't want to learn "how to really ride," so they go with a scooter - and as a result, they are making them look more like a motorcycle then a scooter. I know I have passed more then one scooter on the road and did a double take.

That's interesting as I feel the market is going the other way, There are so many sub 250cc bikes out there now!

Three Buddy Models, Two Stella Models, And the Hooligan from Genuine.
Honda has Three Models, PCX, Ruckus, And Metropolitan.
Yamaha has the Vino, THREE Models of Zuma, And the SMAX
Suzuki has the Burgman 200
Kumco has Two Like Trims, FOUR Super 8 Models, Two Agility Models, and The Compagno
Sym has the RV200, HD200, Two Fiddle II Models, The Mio and The Jet
Vespa has The Sprint, Primavera, and 946
Piaggio has Two Typhoon models and the Fly
Lance has only sub 200cc models!, There are 14 different ones they sell:
Thee Cali Classic Models, Three Havana Classic Models, Three PCH Models,
Three Cabo Models, One Soho Model and the PCH Delivery!
That's what, 52 bikes under 200CC's being sold new right now?

I'm having a hard time finding a replacement bike for my Hyosung, I don't want to go below 200cc's so that limits me to:
Genuine Blur
Honda Forza 300
Sym Citycom 300
Kymco Downtown 300 , Citycom 300, Xciting 500, Myroad 700
Piaggio MP3 500, BV 350
Vespa GTS 300
Suzuki Burgman 400, Suzuki Burgman 650
Yamaha TMAX 530, Yamaha Majesty 400
That's I think 14 bikes above 200cc's compared to the 52 below 200cc's.

No one sells a 250cc anymore

JohnKiniston wrote:

libwitch wrote:The one thing I noticed when I was shopping for scooters is that they have gotten big - both in terms of engine size and height. I had more then one dealer suggest to me that I just go with a motorcycle and get it lowered. Most dealers I spoke to said they are just seeing more "typical" cycle riders that don't want to learn "how to really ride," so they go with a scooter - and as a result, they are making them look more like a motorcycle then a scooter. I know I have passed more then one scooter on the road and did a double take.

That's interesting as I feel the market is going the other way, There are so many sub 250cc bikes out there now!

Three Buddy Models, Two Stella Models, And the Hooligan from Genuine.
Honda has Three Models, PCX, Ruckus, And Metropolitan.
Yamaha has the Vino, THREE Models of Zuma, And the SMAX
Suzuki has the Burgman 200
Kumco has Two Like Trims, FOUR Super 8 Models, Two Agility Models, and The Compagno
Sym has the RV200, HD200, Two Fiddle II Models, The Mio and The Jet
Vespa has The Sprint, Primavera, and 946
Piaggio has Two Typhoon models and the Fly
Lance has only sub 200cc models!, There are 14 different ones they sell:
Thee Cali Classic Models, Three Havana Classic Models, Three PCH Models,
Three Cabo Models, One Soho Model and the PCH Delivery!
That's what, 52 bikes under 200CC's being sold new right now?

I'm having a hard time finding a replacement bike for my Hyosung, I don't want to go below 200cc's so that limits me to:
Genuine Blur
Honda Forza 300
Sym Citycom 300
Kymco Downtown 300 , Citycom 300, Xciting 500, Myroad 700
Piaggio MP3 500, BV 350
Vespa GTS 300
Suzuki Burgman 400, Suzuki Burgman 650
Yamaha TMAX 530, Yamaha Majesty 400
That's I think 14 bikes above 200cc's compared to the 52 below 200cc's.

No one sells a 250cc anymore

Two thumbs up on the new Yamaha S Max, an awesome scoot.

Plenty of barely ridden bigger scoots on CL too!

A couple more factors:
-In the seventies, with a 55 mph national speed limit, you could safely ride a 150cc scooter on almost any road or freeway.
-Back to the present, more freeways are being built, so commuters buy mid-weight or larger motorcycles for speed.
-With speed limits rising, you need a faster machine to safely get into and out of the car pool/HOV lane.
My 30 mile commute home in the afternoon usually takes 90 minutes. There is no freeway available and no speed limits above 45mph, so my Buddy 125 more than suffices.

I removed this post because my message posted twice.

babblefish wrote:

Elder Scoot wrote:

Whimscootie wrote: Now years later so many scooter shops closed during and post-recession.

I'm not sure that the recession is over. Scooters, like all power sport items are discretionary expenditures - the first to go during periods of economic insecurity.

While this may be true for some people, for quite a few others, it's a chosen life style and a main means of transportation, not just a recreational thing. If I ever found myself in dire straits, I'd give up my car first before the scooter.

In Europe, Asia and many other parts of the world scooters are transportation and not recreation. In the U.S., depending upon your location, scooters are not primary transportation for a large portion of folks who buy PTWs. I've been friends with and have represented a number of PTW dealers. The vast majority of their customers are recreational riders and they make a good portion of their revenues performing routine maintenance for folks who do not want to, or do not know how to change their own oil. Dealer profit is low on a new machine and the cost of financing an inventory is high. Money is made taking in and reselling newer bikes that people have lost interest in, become scared of or are moving up to a new bike. Hard-core-scooter-life-stylists often buy a bike, do their own maintenance and hold onto the bikes forever. It is sad but true that this is antithetical to the financial success of the local dealer.

This is also the case with many boats, RVs and other goods that are not primary transportation.

I support my local scooter dealers by constantly trading in bikes and losing a ton of money in the process. I know it's a thankless job but someone has to do it.

Hey Whimscootie – What a great topic for such a diverse group! Interesting read of so many different responses. We kind of fit in between those that use the scoot as their only form of transportation or those that have them only for leisure as we use them for everything that we can for both the fun factor and the economic factor.

Sunshinen – what did you find as the breakeven or to make it worthwhile over a car/truck?

sunshinen wrote:Gas prices, millenials, social media, location ... I recently did a cost comparison of how many miles I have to put on my scooter to make it worthwhile verses the cost of ownership...

We rode 9,200 miles our first calendar year using our Buddy 150 not only for commuting to and from work, yet all sales calls that added 100 miles or more on days in the field. The gas savings alone paid for the scoot not to mention the miles, wear and tear on our truck. Now several scoots and over 60,000 (Buddy) miles later we stopped thinking about cost and just ride them as at least in our opinion they are definitely worthwhile to own and ride.

But even many of the sub-250cc bikes are, seat height, quite tall. Speaking from someone with a petite inseam, it was impossible -- until finding Genuine - to find a bike that I could reach the ground on, even in motorcycle boots unless I wanted to drop down to a 50cc (which is then not enough power for the roads I am on)

Whimscootie wrote:

JohnKiniston wrote:

libwitch wrote:The one thing I noticed when I was shopping for scooters is that they have gotten big - both in terms of engine size and height. I had more then one dealer suggest to me that I just go with a motorcycle and get it lowered. Most dealers I spoke to said they are just seeing more "typical" cycle riders that don't want to learn "how to really ride," so they go with a scooter - and as a result, they are making them look more like a motorcycle then a scooter. I know I have passed more then one scooter on the road and did a double take.

That's interesting as I feel the market is going the other way, There are so many sub 250cc bikes out there now!

Three Buddy Models, Two Stella Models, And the Hooligan from Genuine.
Honda has Three Models, PCX, Ruckus, And Metropolitan.
Yamaha has the Vino, THREE Models of Zuma, And the SMAX
Suzuki has the Burgman 200
Kumco has Two Like Trims, FOUR Super 8 Models, Two Agility Models, and The Compagno
Sym has the RV200, HD200, Two Fiddle II Models, The Mio and The Jet
Vespa has The Sprint, Primavera, and 946
Piaggio has Two Typhoon models and the Fly
Lance has only sub 200cc models!, There are 14 different ones they sell:
Thee Cali Classic Models, Three Havana Classic Models, Three PCH Models,
Three Cabo Models, One Soho Model and the PCH Delivery!
That's what, 52 bikes under 200CC's being sold new right now?

I'm having a hard time finding a replacement bike for my Hyosung, I don't want to go below 200cc's so that limits me to:
Genuine Blur
Honda Forza 300
Sym Citycom 300
Kymco Downtown 300 , Citycom 300, Xciting 500, Myroad 700
Piaggio MP3 500, BV 350
Vespa GTS 300
Suzuki Burgman 400, Suzuki Burgman 650
Yamaha TMAX 530, Yamaha Majesty 400
That's I think 14 bikes above 200cc's compared to the 52 below 200cc's.

No one sells a 250cc anymore

You forgot the new Yamaha S Max, an awesome scoot.


Plenty of barely ridden bigger scoots on CL too!

I see a lot of 400-650cc scooters for sale on my local craigslist. I don't know if the current owners are moving up to motorcycles or trading down to a smaller scooter.

I see a lot of 400-650cc scooters for sale on my local craigslist. I don't know if the current owners are moving up to motorcycles or trading down to a smaller scooter.

No drought in scooters here in SF. Especially with the weather turning nicer.

tiii wrote:No drought in scooters here in SF. Especially with the weather turning nicer.

Speaking of scooters in SF, for anyone that's mechanically inclined living in the Bay Area, here's a killer deal on Craigslist: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/5073002801.html

I'd pick it up myself, but I'm already knee deep in a scooter rebuild.

" Had to lay it down in the middle of an intersection to avoid a collision."

I bet his other ride is a Harley

skully93 wrote:Parking and a billion people moving to Denver is increasing a lot of scooter use, esp. 50cc.

Gas will get more expensive at some point, but is being kept fairly low at the moment. Politics aside, it's a finite resource, so, it hast to at some point.

I live is Boise. I visited Denver last week and was amazed at how many scooters were downtown. I also saw a ton of them in Seattle 2 weeks ago. My perception is that Scooter riding is still quite popular.

Alot of scooters around here. Most are used as cheap transportation, mostly China brand models. Still riders to me. Our "hobby/love" scene has lost alot of riders to motorcycles, but new scooter lovers are slowly filling in the gaps.

bikerbrewer wrote: For what it's worth my wife and I bought a scooter specifically in order to be frugal. Cheaper gas, cheaper insurance, cheaper parking, cheaper maintenance (except for those tires... sheesh) We're probably odd, though.

Nope, not odd. I think this drives a significant part of the market. I know some people with scooters that only have them because they can't afford a bigger vehicle, and will trade up as soon as they can. And while I love my scooter and prefer commuting with it to my SUV. I never actually ride just to ride, and I still take the frugal aspect into account when deciding whether to keep it or not.

MYSCTR wrote: Sunshinen – what did you find as the breakeven or to make it worthwhile over a car/truck?

sunshinen wrote:Gas prices, millenials, social media, location ... I recently did a cost comparison of how many miles I have to put on my scooter to make it worthwhile verses the cost of ownership...

We rode 9,200 miles our first calendar year using our Buddy 150 not only for commuting to and from work, yet all sales calls that added 100 miles or more on days in the field. The gas savings alone paid for the scoot not to mention the miles, wear and tear on our truck. Now several scoots and over 60,000 (Buddy) miles later we stopped thinking about cost and just ride them as at least in our opinion they are definitely worthwhile to own and ride.

Well, when I lived in the DC/NoVA region I went scooter only (sold my car) because my car was being neglected too much and I found I could do without my car. So the scooter easily won there on all fronts.

Here in Denver, with more snow, ice, and thunderstorms; a longer commute that I have to make even if the weather is bad (DC just shuts down... Denver keeps going); trips on long highways to the mountains and roads with AWD conditions, and now with a modern family (boyfriend and 2 dogs) that involves more carting around of other bodies (my dog is terrified of elevators and pontoon boats... so she will NOT be one of those hounds riding on the back), I have to have a cage with AWD.

So, for me in my current situation, the question becomes not which wins car or scooter, but am I using the scooter enough to make up the ongoing cost of having it as a second vehicle (insurance, registration, maintenance, depreciation...)?

With my annual costs and current gas prices, I personally calculated needing to ride about 2007 miles per year to make keeping it the best financial option. But that will vary for everyone depending on all kinds of factors. If I added in what I *might* save on not getting parking tickets or photo radar tickets that number would go down even more... but it's hard to say how many of those I would actually prevent by having my scooter.

I think the number of scooters and motorcycles has increased in my state (New Hampshire) over the last several years. At least, this is what the statistics are indicating through vehicle registration. Scooters 50cc are considered mopeds and are therefore not included in the scooter/motorcycle registration figures. However, it seems I am observing more and more people riding both mopeds and scooters in my area as more dealers open up to sell them. Since one of the new scooter sellers sold Genuine scooters, I am a very happy owner of a Genuine Buddy scooter!