150,000 mile Buddy 125!

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:54 am

There's another Buddy with over 40,000 miles on it! This one is a 2009 125 cc.

The only repairs it has needed that weren't regular maintenance items were two stators that went bad, first lasted 4,800 miles, second lasted 3,000 miles(the third one is an NCY and it has lasted over 32,000 miles.) Also, the clutch bearings went bad, not sure when maybe 15K, and the contra spring got weak by 18k so I replaced the whole clutch unit with a used one from a Buddy 150 that had about 4k on it. And I had to replace the spark plug cap.

It hasn't even taken that much maintenance to get to 40k, belts have lasted ~13-16k, spark plugs ~14k, rollers ~ 8 to ~12k, valves done ever ~8k. It still has the original air filter, fuel filter, brakes, and battery.

Most of those miles were done with me riding like I stole it, with lots and lots of 100+ mile days, a bunch of 200+ days, and several 300 mile days. Plus one 400 mile day. Just last month I did a 350 mile day.

I can put together a more detailed maintenance history if anyone wants, but the main thing I do is change the oil and ride the thing. I try to change the oil ever 1500 miles with Shell Rotella T 15-40W, and the filter ever 2nd or 3rd oil change. For gas 99% of the time I just put the cheap stuff in it, usually getting ~92 BMPG.

I hit 40k in front of the local dealer (after doing 10 laps of the parking lot.)

*Not sure what if any maintenance was done to the scooter before I got it, I bought it used with ~940* miles on it.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:17 am

WOW! Congrats!

I read with interest your maintenance schedules. I too have been milking the original plug, fuel filter, brakes, belt, and rollers at 12,000. I broke down and swapped the air filter at 11,000 for no reason other than it was showing some black over the red.

I suspect I'll switch out the belt, rollers, and plug at my next oil change interval at 13,500. I use Rotella T 5W-40 full synthetic every 2,000 to 2,500 miles and change the filter each time. It appears I'm throwing away perfectly good filters. Or perhaps it helps to throw them out with my longer interval.

My original battery only last 8,000 miles because I never hooked it up to a tender. It only needed a valve adjustment at 5,000, since then, the valves have held fine. My rear tire needs to be replaced about every 6,000.

lefthandedrighty · Post by **lefthandedrighty** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:36 am

excellent!!!

its cool that it happened in front of the dealer, or close to it anyway

that pesky stator, i just changed mine, i thought about getting the NCY one but didnt, now i wish i would have

i will next time it goes out, which is inevitable it seems

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:01 pm

Congrats! Still looks great!

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:49 pm

Nice!
My 40K Buddy had one stator replacement and the clutch bearings went bad, too. I also rode very "throttle happy" with most miles commuting at 50+mph 45 miles/day.

Slam · Post by **Slam** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Great work! I love hearing that you rode it hard, and you clearly weren't concerned with the number of miles you were accumulating. I'm always perplexed when I see scooters where the rider seems to be trying to limit the number of miles they put on a year. Not sure what the point of having a scooter is if you aren't riding it A LOT.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:14 pm

I have over 15k on mine, so I'm happy that it will last a good long while.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:16 am

50,000 here I come-

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:45 am

I didn't really feel it happening but the seat on my Buddy is pretty much done. I was at the local shop and I sat on a new Buddy, and the difference became very noticeable. I might have to try finding a used low mileage seat.

TCaruso · Post by **TCaruso** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:57 pm

Amazing.

I just hit 3,000 and posted a discussion on what should I service. I guess I'll just do another oil change.

Good luck with yours. Hope you hit 100,000.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:21 am

scootERIK wrote:I didn't really feel it happening but the seat on my Buddy is pretty much done. I was at the local shop and I sat on a new Buddy, and the difference became very noticeable. I might have to try finding a used low mileage seat.

Typical that you won't notice the chance as it's happened over time.
Honestly? I don't think I'd want to swap out my seat, I thought about it after I read this, I think my seat has broken in just nicely to fit my scrawny arse, I don't want to 'try on' a new one.....

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:36 am

TCaruso wrote:Amazing.

I just hit 3,000 and posted a discussion on what should I service. I guess I'll just do another oil change.

Good luck with yours. Hope you hit 100,000.

I don't see 100,000 happening, unless Genuine wants to give me a parts sponsorship then maybe. My big goal is 56,500 miles, then I will have done 50k real miles on it since the odometer is off by about 11%, plus the 942 miles it had on it when I got it(plus some rounding.) But in the mean time I am going for 45,500(=40,000 real miles) then on to 50k.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:16 am

The speedometer is off, but people have said the odometer is accurate, which I proved for myself on my Blur using my phone's GPS. I downloaded a speedometer app which includes an odometer function. The scooter's odometer matched the GPS reading just about exactly.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:06 pm

Slam wrote:...I'm always perplexed when I see scooters where the rider seems to be trying to limit the number of miles they put on a year. Not sure what the point of having a scooter is if you aren't riding it A LOT.

+1. Same for motorcycles. I bought my '08 S40 with 2700 miles on it, June of 2014. I've already got it to 10K in the year I've had it. Granted, my 2 wheelers have always been my "daily drivers" unless it's snowy/icy. But man, how can you just not ride?!

george54 · Post by **george54** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:21 pm

babblefish wrote:The speedometer is off, but people have said the odometer is accurate, which I proved for myself on my Blur using my phone's GPS. I downloaded a speedometer app which includes an odometer function. The scooter's odometer matched the GPS reading just about exactly.

In my experience, ALL brands of motorcycles have "optimistic" speedometers, generally in the neighborhood of 10%. Also my experience that those same bikes' odometers are in fact, accurate so you can forget about having to factor in any odometer error.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:24 pm

babblefish wrote:The speedometer is off, but people have said the odometer is accurate, which I proved for myself on my Blur using my phone's GPS. I downloaded a speedometer app which includes an odometer function. The scooter's odometer matched the GPS reading just about exactly.

I ran a GPS app for a bunch of miles last(~4K) and if I remember right my odometer was off by ~9.8% average, had single runs from ~9 to ~11%. On a long ride this year I measured 317 miles on the GPS app and it was 351 miles on the odometer.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:13 pm

Federal regs state MC's must not read slower than actual speeds.
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/tran ... 039r1e.pdf
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/ho ... 7/4260708/

Lots of reasons. Variation in tire height plus tire wear. Don't want us "speeding" but have the speedometer say we're goin' slower.

And, depending on the profile of your tire, your tire will rotate faster anytime you are not upright such as in a curve or a turn. If your tire has a more rounded profile, you are riding on the sides in curves/turns so the diameter is smaller, thus faster rotation. Cars don't do that. They're always on the tread and never on the sidewall. Except for stunt drivers.

edited for some silly wording to make the meaning clear(er). "if your tire is round"..... I meant "rounded" Those square and tetrahedral tires ride a little rough.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:30 am

Still impressed with the build quality, even after 44k there are basically no rattles unless you are riding over really really bad roads(or are off-roading.)

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:40 am

I would have liked to have been going 44 mph but that was too many things to coordinate.

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:34 pm

WOW Erik, That's awesome! That lil buddy keeps on going and going and going!

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:24 am

Well at 44,611.6 miles my Buddy 125 died. Not sure what happened yet, but there is a good chance it needs a new top end. I have been losing power and burning more oil over the last few thousand miles. Today I did a long ride near full throttle, the second half into a 20+ mph headwind and that was too much for it. Going to open it later in the week is see what happened and figure out what it will take to get it back on the road.

This was the first time my Buddy failed to get me home, that's not to shabby.

About 100 miles before the end.

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:57 am

Big bore time!

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:50 am

I cringed when you posted the 44,444.4 at 4:44pm. That was a very bad omen.

In Chinese, that means death, death, death, death, death, death, at death, death, death.

Guess what?

It died soon after.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:20 pm

I've got a complete 125 top with maybe 5k miles on it I'd sell cheap. But if I were you big bore it. Do 150 head too.

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:20 pm

Congrats on the milege. I'm just at 10,341 on my Buddy so that means I'm only a quarter of the way. Just normal maint and replacement of normal wear parts so far. Zero problems.

If I didn't ride the Vespa and the Ural a lot more than the Buddy, I'd be a lot closer to the all 4's.

luckyscroller788 · Post by **luckyscroller788** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:04 am

That sucks Erik, sorry to hear that. You will resurrect it I am sure! Its lived a good life for sure!

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:16 pm

You may do fine with a quick hone and new rings.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:07 pm

avescoots1134 wrote:You may do fine with a quick hone and new rings.

That's what I am hoping. I tried starting it the day after it died and it will sometimes run(or fire) but only for 1/2 a second and only at ~1/4 throttle. When I kick the kickstarter it is much easier than it used to be.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:59 pm

new top end, see how the crank feels and go another 30K. If the crank is shot, they aren't too bad to do. Sorry its broke, but keep it going.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:39 pm

Finally opened it up. Turns out part of the piston came off and was banging around in there(didn't find the piece.) The piece messed the head up pretty good(the piece hit just below the spark plug in the picture.)

Haven't fully inspected the cylinder since I can seem to get it off the rest of the motor.

lovemysan wrote:I've got a complete 125 top with maybe 5k miles on it I'd sell cheap. But if I were you big bore it. Do 150 head too.

I sent you a PM, at least I think I did.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:17 pm

Concerning getting the cylinder barrel off, in addition to the 4 nuts holding the head down, did you remove the 2 bolts at the base of the barrel that secure it to the crankcase? It's also sometimes necessary to use a rubber mallet on the barrel to break it loose from the crankcase due to the base gasket.

Edit:Oops, my bad. The two extra bolts I was referring to also hold the head down, so you obviously got them off.

I second the suggestion of going to a 150cc BBK since the cost is more or less the same. Rejetting the carb may not be required since according to the service manual, both the 125 and 150cc engines use the same size main jet, but I would double check with sparkplug readings. Oh, if you go the 150cc route, make sure you get a BBK meant for a 125cc engine because the piston wrist pin is smaller in a 125 engine, 13mm vs 15mm on a 150cc engine.

Good luck with the engine work and good job on getting so many miles from your Buddy.

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:36 am

Ouch, looks like your engine issue was more-so heat related than wear related. Kaboom!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:10 am

avescoots1134 wrote:Ouch, looks like your engine issue was more-so heat related than wear related. Kaboom!

Two things catch my eye: 1) the sparkplug protrudes pretty far into the combustion chamber (detonation perhaps?), and 2) the sparkplug color looks a bit light. If the scooter was run at wide open throttle a lot during it's life, then heat and/or detonation could have definitely been a problem. But still, 44K+ miles isn't bad.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:47 am

The spark plug in the picture isn't the one that was in it when it died, I put an old one in right after it died just in case that was the problem. The spark plug that was in it when it died was pretty black.

Ever time I showed people my spark plugs they told me that I was running a little lean but not enough to be concerned. Maybe running a little lean added up over time, and I did a lot of wide open riding for extended periods.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:38 am

scootERIK wrote:The spark plug in the picture isn't the one that was in it when it died, I put an old one in right after it died just in case that was the problem. The spark plug that was in it when it died was pretty black.

Ever time I showed people my spark plugs they told me that I was running a little lean but not enough to be concerned. Maybe running a little lean added up over time, and I did a lot of wide open riding for extended periods.

This has me a little confused. If the original sparkplug was pretty black, then why would anyone say you were running lean? Did the original plug protrude into the combustion chamber the same amount?

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:13 pm

babblefish wrote:
scootERIK wrote:The spark plug in the picture isn't the one that was in it when it died, I put an old one in right after it died just in case that was the problem. The spark plug that was in it when it died was pretty black.

Ever time I showed people my spark plugs they told me that I was running a little lean but not enough to be concerned. Maybe running a little lean added up over time, and I did a lot of wide open riding for extended periods.
This has me a little confused. If the original sparkplug was pretty black, then why would anyone say you were running lean? Did the original plug protrude into the combustion chamber the same amount?

I might have worded that poorly. I changed the spark plug on the side of the road after the scooter died to see if that was the problem. The plug that was in the scooter when it died was black, but it wasn't black 300 miles earlier when I had it out to show it to a buddy.

As for the amount of protrusion, I don't know. This plug was installed into a hot motor and I probably over tightened it.

george54 · Post by **george54** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:45 pm

Check the part #s of both the plug you removed and the one in there now to see if they were recommended for use in that model scooter. The depth that plug is protruding concerns me too. Certainly possible that the piece of piston broke off after striking the plug. Check the other plug for signs of damage.

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:01 pm

babblefish wrote:
scootERIK wrote:The spark plug in the picture isn't the one that was in it when it died, I put an old one in right after it died just in case that was the problem. The spark plug that was in it when it died was pretty black.

Ever time I showed people my spark plugs they told me that I was running a little lean but not enough to be concerned. Maybe running a little lean added up over time, and I did a lot of wide open riding for extended periods.
This has me a little confused. If the original sparkplug was pretty black, then why would anyone say you were running lean? Did the original plug protrude into the combustion chamber the same amount?

He did mention that he was burning some oil before - that will cause the ash buildup pretty quickly.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:15 pm

avescoots1134 wrote:
babblefish wrote:
scootERIK wrote:The spark plug in the picture isn't the one that was in it when it died, I put an old one in right after it died just in case that was the problem. The spark plug that was in it when it died was pretty black.

Ever time I showed people my spark plugs they told me that I was running a little lean but not enough to be concerned. Maybe running a little lean added up over time, and I did a lot of wide open riding for extended periods.
This has me a little confused. If the original sparkplug was pretty black, then why would anyone say you were running lean? Did the original plug protrude into the combustion chamber the same amount?
He did mention that he was burning some oil before - that will cause the ash buildup pretty quickly.

May be it started burning oil because a piece of the piston broke off thereby compromising the piston ring seal.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:12 am

Just as a point of reference, I posted a picture of a 150cc engine head with a stock CR7 sparkplug installed. Note that none of the sparkplug's threads are showing in the combustion chamber. The reason this is important is because under a heavy load, it is possible for the edge of the exposed thread to heat up to red hot which can cause detonation problems. Also, because of the flat top piston, it is not possible for the sparkplug to contact the piston unless it protrudes into the combustion chamber by 15mm or more.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:19 pm

Does detonation sound anything like an exhaust valve that needs adjustment? If so then you may be onto something. There have been a lot of days recently where it ran good for the first 30-45 minutes, after that it would lose top speed and get a little noisy(but only at speeds over 45 bmph.)

The plug in the picture is a CR7HSA, it's an NGK plug that comes in a box that says Honda Genuine Parts.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:14 pm

scootERIK wrote:Does detonation sound anything like an exhaust valve that needs adjustment? If so then you may be onto something. There have been a lot of days recently where it ran good for the first 30-45 minutes, after that it would lose top speed and get a little noisy(but only at speeds over 45 bmph.)

Yes it can. Kind of a muted tapping sound. And the scenario you described leading up to the sound is, well, the perfect scenario.

The plug in the picture is a CR7HSA, it's an NGK plug that comes in a box that says Honda Genuine Parts.

That is the same plug that is installed in the head that I posted. Not sure why it sticks so much further into the combustion chamber in your head. Maybe a mis-machined head that sinks the plug deeper in your head?

One other thing, the main jet size spec'ed in the service manual is a #102, but mine had a #92 installed when I bought the scooter. Maybe you should check yours to see if it also has a too small main jet. Might have been done in order to meet US emissions laws.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:48 pm

I still can't get the cylinder off. I beat on it pretty good and even tried a strap wrench around it to see if I could turn it to break it loose but haven't had any luck. It looks so easy in all the Youtube videos.

As much as I wanted to get to 50k I am starting to wonder if I would be better off just selling it or parting it out.

avescoots1134 · Post by **avescoots1134** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:01 pm

If you are sure you've removed all the bolts, wack it harder. It'll give.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:38 pm

scootERIK wrote:I still can't get the cylinder off. I beat on it pretty good and even tried a strap wrench around it to see if I could turn it to break it loose but haven't had any luck. It looks so easy in all the Youtube videos.

As much as I wanted to get to 50k I am starting to wonder if I would be better off just selling it or parting it out.

Just for sentimental value, it would be great to get the scoot going again. After all, you've come this far with it.

Can you turn the crank to move the piston up and down? Just checking to see if the piston is frozen to the cylinder which would make it a little more difficult to remove.

You won't be able to twist the cylinder because although you can see clearance around the studs at the top, there are spacers at the bottom of the studs the same as the ones at the top which help locate the head.

Since you're not going to reuse the cylinder anyway, don't worry about doing any damage to it. Like Avescoots said, just wack it harder, but not sideways, hit it for an upward motion, toward the head side. Work around the cylinder. If you have a propane torch, use it to heat up the crankcase at the base of the cylinder.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:54 pm

A sledge hammer did the trick, the extra mass made all the difference.

The gold streak on the bottom is where the bad spot on the piston was.

GregsBuddy · Post by **GregsBuddy** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:22 am

That's where leakage stained the cylinder.
Repair it and go another 46K miles!

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:51 pm

Couple quick questions if I go big bore and big valve-

1. Do I need to run a decompression tube? Like this http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-oil-dec ... jeO024aunI
did a little research and on some of the generic GY6 forums it seems like most people think it is a waste of money.

2. For jetting what would be a decent starting size? I was thinking about starting with a 105(with a stock air box and exhaust,) based on what I have read I probably have a 92 in it right now and that would run way too lean with the BBK. I know people don't like to make jetting suggestion, but I'm not looking for perfect, just something close or maybe a little rich that I can run for the first few miles.

GregsBuddy · Post by **GregsBuddy** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:02 pm

I'd call Scooterworks to get the inside info on the crankcase compression release.
You'll either want the same jet or smaller with the larger cylinder. The reason for this is that the intake "pulse" will be stronger with larger displacement.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:04 pm

scootERIK wrote:Couple quick questions if I go big bore and big valve-

1. Do I need to run a decompression tube? Like this http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-oil-dec ... jeO024aunI
did a little research and on some of the generic GY6 forums it seems like most people think it is a waste of money.

That's one thing I've been meaning to try since I've bumped my engine up to 180cc. At the moment, the only crankcase vent I'm using is the one that comes stock on the valve cover.

2. For jetting what would be a decent starting size? I was thinking about starting with a 105(with a stock air box and exhaust,) based on what I have read I probably have a 92 in it right now and that would run way too lean with the BBK. I know people don't like to make jetting suggestion, but I'm not looking for perfect, just something close or maybe a little rich that I can run for the first few miles.

Mine was a 92 and after the displacement increase to 180, I increased the mj size a step at a time while checking sparkplug color until I reached my present 118 size. It's still just a touch lean, but acceptable. But, keep in mind that my engine has a lot more than just a bbk installed. For you, a 102 - 105 would be a good starting point.