Easy/Inexpensive Speed Upgrades for a Buddy 170i?

[personality]

I recently bought 2016 170i Buddy with 1400 miles, and would like to get a little more top speed out of it. From what I've read, switching the variator rollers to Dr. Pulley sliders seems like a cheap and easy place to start, but I'd welcome any suggestions on weights. At my weight, the 11G sound like the ticket?

About me: 6'3", 230lbs, commute is about 16 miles each way and a mix of hills and straightaways.

Right now I'm maxxing out in the low 60's BMPH on straightaways, I got a GPS 64mph on a downhill once. I am willing to give up some off the line performance if necessary. I am not a fan of windscreens.

[Stanza]

NCY performance pipe for starters. Definitely the Dr Pulley sliders, as those will let you ramp up higher on the variator.

[Stanza]

Also, if you go with the NCY pipe, leave the silencer in. For some reason, the 170 doesn't like running fully uncorked, and you'll get more speed with the silencer than without.

[personality]

Do you have any suggestions for weights on the variator, or jetting to match the pipe?

[Stanza]

Buddy 170 is fuel injected, so there's no jetting to worry about. As for the weights, it came with 13g rollers originally. If you go one size lighter, you'll probably gain some pickup. If you go one higher, you might gain some top speed, at the sacrifice of off the line acceleration.

[personality]

Oh, duh on the jetting. It doesn't have an 02 sensor in the exhaust like a car though, so does the ECU (or whatever) know to compensate for the extra air flow with more fuel? Or will it just run lean and hot?

[skipper20]

I recently bought 2016 170i Buddy with 1400 miles, and would like to get a little more top speed out of it. From what I've read, switching the variator rollers to Dr. Pulley sliders seems like a cheap and easy place to start, but I'd welcome any suggestions on weights. At my weight, the 11G sound like the ticket?

About me: 6'3", 230lbs, commute is about 16 miles each way and a mix of hills and straightaways.

Right now I'm maxxing out in the low 60's BMPH on straightaways, I got a GPS 64mph on a downhill once. I am willing to give up some off the line performance if necessary. I am not a fan of windscreens.

Been there and done that. Without increasing engine size, mods are strictly trade-offs. You might gain a bit in one area but you'll lose in another. The Buddy 170i is a 60 mph scooter. Be satisfied with it. Or, be realistic and move up to something closer to 200 CCs in engine size. Or, bite the bullet and get a windscreen. Your height and weight are likely creating a bit of drag. A medium to tall windscreen might help.

Bill in Seattle
Member Emeritus

[DeeDee]

I had a Buddy 170i for a while, and didn't find the performance a whole lot different than my Buddy 125. I traded the 170 in on a Vespa GT200. Boy was that an upgrade. 20mph more on the top end. Better suspension and 12" wheels. Genuine Buddys are great scooters, but they are what they are.

[k1dude]

There's no replacement for displacement.

If you want to go faster, buy a bike with a bigger engine.

One of the few exceptions to the rule is the Yamaha SMax 155. I have no idea how they make that scooter go so fast with such a small engine.

[Dooglas]

Without increasing engine size, mods are strictly trade-offs. You might gain a bit in one area but you'll lose in another.

Exactly right. With 4T scooters, you mostly accept what you have or consider a different ride.

[JettaKnight]

So, a Buddy 161cc will outrun a 170i?

[lovemysan]

So, a Buddy 161cc will outrun a 170i?

Not with a stock 125cc cylinder head. Riding on the highway will wear the crank out over time. They end up having a lot of thrust play and eat belts. I've seen it twice. SYM hd200 could be considered as well.

I've trashed lots of parts riding my buddy 125. They will live a long happy life at 45 mph. Spend a lot of time over 50 mph and the crank is the weak link.

[personality]

I get that there always trade offs, and I'm not looking for something for nothing, but usually with bike like this, there is some easy stuff that will make them a little faster. Like drilling out the airbox, or using higher quality rollers. I bought the bike I wanted, but if there are little ways to make it better, I'd like to try them...
I don't mind losing a little off the line speed for some top end.

[BuddyRaton]

Best easy bang for the buck is a fly screen, second is shed weight...I know...not always the proper thing to say but weight on the bike really does matter. Extra tools? Full can of seafoam? Heavy backpack or top box? It all adds up quickly Many people carry around at least 10lbs of stuff they don't need all the time. Even a rack and empty top box are going to slow you down a little.

[BuddyRaton]

So, a Buddy 161cc will outrun a 170i?

Not with a stock 125cc cylinder head. Riding on the highway will wear the crank out over time. They end up having a lot of thrust play and eat belts. I've seen it twice. SYM hd200 could be considered as well.

I've trashed lots of parts riding my buddy 125. They will live a long happy life at 45 mph. Spend a lot of time over 50 mph and the crank is the weak link.

I love the 161 kit on the shorter stroked 125...tons of torque! But I agree, I don't consider it to be a touring set up. Cruise at 60 once in a while for a bit but generally it's a kick ass town bike

Always remember the first question before modding is..."since no bike can do everything...what do I really want it to do?"

[dasscooter]

Best easy bang for the buck is a fly screen, second is shed weight...I know...not always the proper thing to say but weight on the bike really does matter. Extra tools? Full can of seafoam? Heavy backpack or top box? It all adds up quickly Many people carry around at least 10lbs of stuff they don't need all the time. Even a rack and empty top box are going to slow you down a little.

Blasphemy! You can't leave your Seafoam at home, what if you break down??

[JettaKnight]

So, a Buddy 161cc will outrun a 170i?

Not with a stock 125cc cylinder head. Riding on the highway will wear the crank out over time. They end up having a lot of thrust play and eat belts. I've seen it twice. SYM hd200 could be considered as well.

I've trashed lots of parts riding my buddy 125. They will live a long happy life at 45 mph. Spend a lot of time over 50 mph and the crank is the weak link.

I love the 161 kit on the shorter stroked 125...tons of torque! But I agree, I don't consider it to be a touring set up. Cruise at 60 once in a while for a bit but generally it's a kick ass town bike

Always remember the first question before modding is..."since no bike can do everything...what do I really want it to do?"

Really? What am I doing right then?

I've got 10,000+ on my big bore + big cylinder engine with nary a spot of trouble from it. And I tend to look at that red line on the speedometer as a speed for a lazy Sunday ride, not for commuting.

[BuddyRaton]

Well for one thing you live up north! Air cooled motors almost never get a break here, last year winter was on a Tuesday.

Whatever you're doing...keep doing it...looks like it's working well for you!

Seriously, some Buddys that have run the CBR have experienced crank failures after many days of sustained WFO running. The shorter stroke 150s seem to hold up a bit better.

[jrsjr]

Seriously, some Buddys that have run the CBR have experienced crank failures after many days of sustained WFO running. The shorter stroke 150s seem to hold up a bit better.

Truth. It was hearthbreaking when that bike died just short of the finish line in 2008. After he made it through the stuck valve and still managed to claw his way all the way across the country then rattle-clank a few miles from the finish

[Christophers]

So, a Buddy 161cc will outrun a 170i?

Not with a stock 125cc cylinder head. Riding on the highway will wear the crank out over time. They end up having a lot of thrust play and eat belts. I've seen it twice. SYM hd200 could be considered as well.

I've trashed lots of parts riding my buddy 125. They will live a long happy life at 45 mph. Spend a lot of time over 50 mph and the crank is the weak link.

Really? What am I doing right then?

I've got 10,000+ on my big bore + big cylinder engine with nary a spot of trouble from it. And I tend to look at that red line on the speedometer as a speed for a lazy Sunday ride, not for commuting.

Well for one thing you live up north! Air cooled motors almost never get a break here, last year winter was on a Tuesday.

Whatever you're doing...keep doing it...looks like it's working well for you!

Seriously, some Buddys that have run the CBR have experienced crank failures after many days of sustained WFO running. The shorter stroke 150s seem to hold up a bit better.

My experience had been much closer to that of JettaKnight's than it has been to that of lovemysan's or BuddyRaton.

I've had big bore kits for the last 12,000 miles of my Buddy riding (8000 on the first and 4000+ on the latest). The first kit was running strong. It was the scooter that gave up after being crushed by an SUV. The replacement is running just as strong as the first - both in Los Angeles (not 'cooler weather'). Both run WOT (wide open throttle) all the time (I don't ride urban ~ or as little urban as possible ~ but mostly twisties and canyons). Never had any crank issues nor any belt issues. Stroker crank (as opposed to the shorter 150 crank). Never had an engine blow up or seize. Instead they have been very happy at 60+ all day long, much as JettaKnight describes - Full tank's worth of riding without stops; fill-up and repeat. Great little machine!

[wheelbender6]

It's true that external mods like pipes and intakes don't provide dramatic results. If done right, they make the engine more responsive. It's more fun to ride because it doesn't feel as much like a smog motor.

[BuddyRaton]

Oh I have had no problems with my 161 kit set up but I don't rife WFO for extended (few hours) at a time. I have other scooters for that!

[scootERIK]

My first Buddy 125 motor, all stock, was happy to run hard all day, I even did a 400 mile day on it(Buddy miles.) It lasted over 40k and the crank was still good. But my second and third motors haven't been as happy. Though my second motor is at 20k and it just did ~150 miles of mostly WOT, with a couple of section of 20-30 miles straight at WOT(in Wisconsin it's hard to find places to run WOT for really long periods of time.) Also, my WOT is about 52 mph GPS speed.

I don't know what is wrong with the second motor, it has a tick that I can't diagnose but it has been making the tick for ~14k. The third motor has ~16k on it and most likely has a bearing that is bad. I don't know if it was long fast rides that damaged the motors or something else(motor three was out of a crashed scooter.)

I will say that I do change my oil a little more often when I am doing lots of long trips because I believe that long trips can be hard on the oil. By long trips I mean 150 miles plus, and by more often I mean every 1,200 miles or so. If I am planning a ~300 mile ride I will often change the oil before the ride so I know it's fresh.

I think Genuine needs to put a 200-225 cc motor in the Buddy and gear it so it can run 60 mph or a little faster all day. Or at least stick a 200-250 cc motor in the Hooligan. Hooligan 220 maybe?

[Dooglas]

I think Genuine needs to put a 200-225 cc motor in the Buddy and gear it so it can run 60 mph or a little faster all day. Or at least stick a 200-250 cc motor in the Hooligan. Hooligan 220 maybe?

This sounds familiar.

[Christophers]

I think Genuine needs to put a 200-225 cc motor in the Buddy and gear it so it can run 60 mph or a little faster all day. Or at least stick a 200-250 cc motor in the Hooligan. Hooligan 220 maybe?

This sounds familiar.

LOL

[cummingsjc]

My dream scoots from Genuine would be a Buddy 220cc with the Blackjack suspension or a Hooligan 220cc with the upgraded suspension (my preference) AND I would love to see a 125cc version of the Roughhouse. I actually communicated with Genuine about this idea on Facebook chat and told them that I thought it would be a great scooter if they did it. They agreed with me and said that they had discussed it, it would be a great scooter, and had no plans to build one at this time.

[GregsBuddy]

Least expensive upgrade: High tyre air pressures. 40 PSI will increase overall performance by a small but measurable amount. It will create small changes in handling and will wear the tyres a little more in the center with shorter tyre life.
Try it...

[Stanza]

You could also put on a taller rear tire. The speedo gets its reading off the front wheel, so if you went with a taller profile rear tire, it'd be the same as gearing it up a little, and you'd still be registering accurately, or rather as accurately as the stock speedo can be at those speeds.

[skipper20]

I think Genuine needs to put a 200-225 cc motor in the Buddy and gear it so it can run 60 mph or a little faster all day. Or at least stick a 200-250 cc motor in the Hooligan. Hooligan 220 maybe?

They did. They called it the Blur 220. But in spite of the bigger engine, bigger wheels and incredibly sexy sport styling, it didn't hang around for very long.

Bill in Seattle
Member Emiritus

[scootERIK]

They did. They called it the Blur 220. But in spite of the bigger engine, bigger wheels and incredibly sexy sport styling, it didn't hang around for very long.

Bill in Seattle
Member Emiritus

I know but it was also really uncomfortable. I bet if Genuine put that motor in the Buddy it would sell more in the first year then the Blur sold in all the years it was available.

[jrsjr]

Best easy bang for the buck is a fly screen...

Nobody ever listens when we tell them the flyscreen is the shizz. Everybody wants to fiddle with the motor and the CVT, even though we've explained 1000 times why none of the expensive mods really alters the top speed unless you fiddle with the final gear ratio. The flyscreen gives you a tiny bit more top speed because it reduces the all-important coefficient of friction of the bike (especially when you crouch and tuck).

My solution is to buy a G400C!

[BuddyRaton]

I think Genuine needs to put a 200-225 cc motor in the Buddy and gear it so it can run 60 mph or a little faster all day. Or at least stick a 200-250 cc motor in the Hooligan. Hooligan 220 maybe?

They did. They called it the Blur 220. But in spite of the bigger engine, bigger wheels and incredibly sexy sport styling, it didn't hang around for very long.

Bill in Seattle
Member Emiritus

A Blur 220 is not about top speed, it's about acceleration and handling. It's not sport styling, the suspension, acceleration, brakes and nimbleness make it a true "sport" scooter, one of the most fun scooters I have owned but not the fastest by any means.

A Blur is a Blur and in general people either love it or hate it. Most that hate it have never ridden one or don't get it. "I feel every bump in the road" well yeah...with a tight suspension you should! I never think of it as a touring scooter but as a traffic jammer it freaking rocks!

[BuddyRaton]

Best easy bang for the buck is a fly screen...

Nobody ever listens when we tell them the flyscreen is the shizz. Everybody wants to fiddle with the motor and the CVT, even though we've explained 1000 times why none of the expensive mods really alters the top speed unless you fiddle with the final gear ratio. The flyscreen gives you a tiny bit more top speed because it reduces the all-important coefficient of friction of the bike (especially when you crouch and tuck).

My solution is to buy a G400C!

Or a SYM 200!

[GregsBuddy]

The larger OD tire route will provide higher top speed. If you go this way, I suggest that you don't go wider. I tried a wider/taller tire and the handling was affected negatively: The scoot' wants to stand up on bumps when your riding in corners and hit a bump. The offset of the contact patch leverages the scoot' upward from lean angle. Disconcerting. The larger the lean angle the more leverage.