VA M-class endoresment "skill test"

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:59 am

So, I'm tapping into the great resource that is this site to ask VA scooterists for some help. According to my understanding of the law round these here parts, I'm not allowed to ride by myself with just a learners. 10+ years accident free doesn't count when you half the wheels, and I'm OK with that. The problem lies in that I'm the first of my circle of friends to adopt the "screw the pump" way of commuting. Which means, I have to wait 30 days (from when I took the learner's permit portion of acquiring an M endorsement) and here's the funny part *without* riding by myself, to take the skills test. I'm really considering taking the MSF course, but it's jam-packed until August.

Here's where I'm obviously going to run into opposition. I honestly don't think that I'd benefit enough from the MSF course to justify the cost. Before you decide to chew me out for ignorance, understand the following. When I'm in a car, I drive like an old man, seriously... I get annoyed by anyone not doing the speed limit - as in over, not under- and I keep the 1 sec per 10mph distance which I've never seen another soul do. I've ridden a bicycle since I was 5, never injured. I obey every signal and sign law, constantly scan my surroundings, and I drill myself with parking lot skill tests from the scooter and motorcycle MSF Booklets. I constantly scan my suroundings and drive super defensive... I *rarely* get suprised. I used to drive a super-tuned sports car (85 RX-7 with custom bored carb, full racing exhaust and full suspension) like it was a surgical instrument in either highway or downtown traffic. There's more, but nothing that'll convince the hard-core MSF folks. And I respect that.

I wear gloves, jacket, 3/4 helmet, steel-toe full height boots, and denim jeans (the weak point of my gear) when ever i ride, which so far has only been 45 MPH and below - my daily commute route.

The problem that I have is that I can't for the life of me find a layout of how the VA DMV tests the skills for the M class endorsement. That and I don't have a riding mentor.

What I'd love is for anyone in the Richmond, VA area who has time on their hands and... AND (here's the most important part) is a conservative/safe/ or just a non aggressive/defensive driver to perhaps meet up with me once or twice and show me the basics of the skill test in VA here.

I hate to say it, but I've been riding and fully intend to keep riding up through my passing of the skills test. I really don't see another option. I've taken incremental steps so far, but I keep taking further steps. I'll use the safety gear, suck up my pride-whatever it takes. I just could really use a hand, even if it's not everytime I ride.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can either help or offer advice.

apetit · Post by **apetit** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:34 am

The MSF site has handbooks online which show practice sites and exercises. You could use those. Also, other states might have more thorough DMV information online which could also help you prepare; some other state may show a map of their driving course.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:42 am

Right. Those are the ones I'm practicing in parking lots. The thing I can't seem to find is what they actually test at the DMV when you take the "skills" test. That's what I'm asking help on. Thanks for the help, though, and safe riding!

Smiziley · Post by **Smiziley** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:18 am

Skills test is essentially all the little maneuvers from the manual combined into 1 test. Just list out all the moves and practice them for a month. They're big on emergency braking and swerving. You should do fine, it's kinda like driver's ed.

I'm a Richmonder myself, and would love to help you out but am in Seattle for the summer. Good to know a few of us are into these 'beasts'.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:24 pm

I can suggest one thing - go to Target and buy the little pack of soccer cones, then go up to the DMV. The one on Johnston-Willis Dr. has a motorcycle-test pad out back, and they have all the stuff marked. You can put your cones down and doodle around them to your heart's content. You can try it at the downtown DMV too, but they seem to be running MSF classes during the week now (or maybe they're just testing a lot of people) because I always see people out by the pad when I go down Leigh.
I took the MSF class in lieu of the DMV test, and I really, really strongly suggest taking it. It's much less stressful practicing the emergency maneuvering skills on someone else's ratty little 250 than on your own shiny new scooter. Skills testing is also a less-stressful experience via the MSF, simply because you're doing it with a big group of clueless people as opposed to all by yourself. The MSF class also gets you better rates on insurance.
My hubby's in the same boat as you are - just got his learner's and has to take one or the other. I'll PM you my number and perhaps we can ride a bit.

tunseeker1 · Post by **tunseeker1** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:39 pm

Most states it is not legal to practice the test at the testing site. If you get caught you could lose your permit and face a fine.

I would suggest taking the MSF at least for the structured class setting, even if you already have your M-endorsement.

Here is a webpage that has the diagrams for download.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle- ... ycle-test/

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:45 pm

tunseeker1 wrote:Most states it is not legal to practice the test at the testing site. If you get caught you could lose your permit and face a fine.

Really? I didn't know anything about that. I'm going to do some poking around on the DMV site and see if it mentions anything. Forget I made the suggestion other than the "buy the cones" part.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:56 pm

I haven't found anything yet about the (il)legality of practicing at the DMV when they're not using it, but I did find this:

http://www.virginia-motorcycle.com/index.shtml

It has some useful-looking links.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:06 pm

All right. I've been through about thirty Google pages, and I'm not ready to cede the legality issue. I searched for "illegal to practice motorcycle road skills test at DMV," and while NY and OH definitely will spank you, I couldn't find anything about VA law.

tunseeker1 · Post by **tunseeker1** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:18 pm

its simple. Its trespassing. If the DMV is closed then you are not allowed to be there. If they are there then they will usually chase you away pretty quick.

twoscoots · Post by **twoscoots** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:33 pm

Technically, I suppose you're right, but I went up to the JW DMV during the day and went on the course and a county cop waved at me. I don't think they run armed patrols after hours, either...

tunseeker1 · Post by **tunseeker1** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:36 pm

I am just stating the facts about it. (I live in Ohio BTW and they do watch after hours)

I try and not give advice that could cause injury or harm and try and just give facts in situations like this.

Its the same as advising on speeding because everyone says their speedo if off. Unless you have the information to make an informed legal decision then err on the side of what is known legal.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:25 pm

Good find Twoscoots! That pretty much lists it out, exactly what I was looking for.

As to the MSF course, cost aside, it was one of the first things I looked at. It's also booked up through August. There's probably a good chance that I'll take it, but I feel that I'll be ok getting the license endorsement with out it. Everyone I spoke with highly recommends taking it, praising it for making them a better rider. I'd even consider taking time off of work to take it. Seems everyone around here has the same idea, that thing is BOOKED! Maybe I'll see if I can find something in a neighboring city that has some spots open.

louie · Post by **louie** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:23 pm

Lostmycage wrote:. Everyone I spoke with highly recommends taking it, praising it for making them a better rider. I'd even consider taking time off of work to take it. .

i think you've answered your own quandry; whether or not the course is for a dependable, cautious driver. a couple of pieces of knowledge i learned are,

1. people who are taught by family or friends don't have any or much better crash stats than those who are self taught

2. your other quote that states people who already ride say they are better riders after taking the course.

don't think driving and riding are enough alike to assume good at one = good at another. evidently most people believe they are very good drivers and we know that's crap. present company excluded of course.

no one can decide but you.
i would add that it's not the classroom teachings that added the most to my knowledge as much as the one on one expert feedback that make the course so desirable.

no one ever mentions other beginner bike riding instruction but they exist.

anyone know of classes from some of the larger bike companies. i know one the HD dealerships has one and possibly Yamaha.