License Check-Points

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:04 pm

Ocassionally, I'm hearing that CHP and local PDs are running license check-points (like DUI check-points). I have personally not seen one.

Recently, they ran one near the traffic court and bagged several people driving on suspended licenses or no license. They all got another ticket and got their cars impounded.

I have also heard of one check-point setup especially for motorcycles. There are tons of people riding without a license.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:17 pm

I think I might be one of the few people, I totally may be wrong, but one of the few people that thinks check points are an awesome idea. I know people are going to say random checks are unconstitutional, blah blah blah, but if you aren’t doing anything wrong, then you shouldn’t be worried about it, AND the people that are driving drunk, or unlicensed, or smuggling nuclear material <--- I am totally serious on this one, are going to get caught.

hackett · Post by **hackett** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:35 pm

MikieTaps wrote:I think I might be one of the few people, I totally may be wrong, but one of the few people that thinks check points are an awesome idea. I know people are going to say random checks are unconstitutional, blah blah blah, but if you aren’t doing anything wrong, then you shouldn’t be worried about it, AND the people that are driving drunk, or unlicensed, or smuggling nuclear material <--- I am totally serious on this one, are going to get caught.

Can I see your credit card statement, then? You don't have anything to hide, right?

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:37 pm

Other than the few hundred dollars in Buddy accessories that my GF doesn’t know about… I have nothing to hide

hackett · Post by **hackett** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:40 pm

So you're willing to share your credit card statement with a complete stranger on the internet?

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:53 pm

sure, once I cut out the account numbers, SS# Name.... well basically everything...

But that is different, its not illegal for me TO HAVE or NOT TO HAVE a credit card statement... it would be illegal for me to NOT HAVE a License and drive around on public roads

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:57 pm

+1 Mikie...I think it's a great idea whose time has more than come.

I have seen way too many MC riders out without a license because they assume because they can drive a cage they can ride a bike.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:02 pm

+1 ... some people jus need to be checked

hackett · Post by **hackett** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:03 pm

MikieTaps wrote:sure, once I cut out the account numbers, SS# Name.... well basically everything...

But that is different, its not illegal for me TO HAVE or NOT TO HAVE a credit card statement... it would be illegal for me to NOT HAVE a License and drive around on public roads

So you agree then that privacy isn't always about hiding illegal activity? That was my point entirely. I agree that we need to facilitate police in finding illegal activity, but I have a HUGE problem when that turns into "Papers, please."

StacyB · Post by **StacyB** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:04 pm

The only issue I have with random checks is that I tend to see them in "economically challenged" areas rather than "posh" neighborhoods.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:07 pm

I think I might have come off a little over-zealous... afterall I am trying to become a Federal Law Enforcement agent...

hackett · Post by **hackett** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:15 pm

MikieTaps wrote:I think I might have come off a little over-zealous... afterall I am trying to become a Federal Law Enforcement agent...

It's all good. I'm just really big on the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" idea, and I find checkpoints anathema to that concept.

Law enforcement needs to be able to do its job while operating within the bounds of the Constitution.

FWIW, I'm headed to law school in the fall.

charltons · Post by **charltons** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:27 pm

I wonder if we will see them after July1, when the new license law goes into effect. A lot of people are riding around on scoots, I strongly suspect without licenses. I don't like the whole draconian aspect to it either, but it might curb a few idiots.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:32 pm

The AMA is fighting police motorcycle checkpoints in (IIRC) New York State. Police set up checkpoints on major roads in and out of biker rallies and checked for licenses and bike legality. I think similar things happen around Daytona during Bike Week.

On one hand, I'm all for it, and it bugs me the AMA is trying to prevent law enforcement from keeping illegal bikes and riders off the streets. I personally support stricter licensing and harsher enforcement of DOT/EPA standards and license/insurance laws.

On the other hand, it does seem wrong that they could single out one sort of vehicle, when there are millions of unregistered/unlicensed/uninsured cars driving around, too. It also seems to be somewhat of an intrusion on privacy, and I get the impression that the checks often have more to do with crowd control/intimidation and revenue than they do with promoting motorcycle safety.

It's a tough call.

Bb.

madtolive · Post by **madtolive** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:33 pm

hackett wrote:
MikieTaps wrote:I think I might have come off a little over-zealous... afterall I am trying to become a Federal Law Enforcement agent...
It's all good. I'm just really big on the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" idea, and I find checkpoints anathema to that concept.

Law enforcement needs to be able to do its job while operating within the bounds of the Constitution.

FWIW, I'm headed to law school in the fall.

i think the only way to settle this matter is to have you and mikie arm wrestle.

hackett · Post by **hackett** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:42 pm

madtolive wrote:
i think the only way to settle this matter is to have you and mikie arm wrestle.

My one weakness--my weakness.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:27 pm

I tried to write a response to this, but found myself unable to do so without violating the Posting Guidelines I've sworn to uphold. in fact, I opened up a can of political discussion worms that would have gone bad pretty damn fast. So I'll say only this:

When ruling in favor of the constitutionality of sobriety checkpoints, the Supreme Court (under Chief Rehnquist) decided that despite being an obvious Fourth Amendment violation and seeming to contradict previous Court decisions, the checks resulted in a public good that outweighed the violation of individual rights.

While it would seem that would also apply to these checkpoints, we have a different Court composition now. Also, that ruling was made at the peak of a fervor for anti-drunk driving legislation and so on.

FWIW, these checkpoints would not be allowed under many state constitutions which grant additional protections.

I fully expect them to be challenged in court.

And, my personal opinion, stated as apolitically as possible: I do want more enforcement of licensing. Around here, I would love to see more enforcement of traffic laws when it comes to motorcyclists. I'm sure the checkpoints are an effective way of finding unlicensed riders. But they scare the crap out of me.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:30 pm

hackett wrote:
madtolive wrote:
i think the only way to settle this matter is to have you and mikie arm wrestle.
My one weakness--my weakness.

EXCELLENT

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:23 pm

I want checkpoints, tiered licensing, all scooters regulated as motorcycles regardless of engine size, helmet laws, licenses that expire every two years, and free twinkies.

A man must eat while lobbying for random legislation.

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:28 pm

ericalm wrote:I tried to write a response to this, but found myself unable to do so without violating the Posting Guidelines I've sworn to uphold. in fact, I opened up a can of political discussion worms that would have gone bad pretty damn fast. So I'll say only this:

When ruling in favor of the constitutionality of sobriety checkpoints, the Supreme Court (under Chief Rehnquist) decided that despite being an obvious Fourth Amendment violation and seeming to contradict previous Court decisions, the checks resulted in a public good that outweighed the violation of individual rights.

While it would seem that would also apply to these checkpoints, we have a different Court composition now. Also, that ruling was made at the peak of a fervor for anti-drunk driving legislation and so on.

FWIW, these checkpoints would not be allowed under many state constitutions which grant additional protections.

I fully expect them to be challenged in court.

And, my personal opinion, stated as apolitically as possible: I do want more enforcement of licensing. Around here, I would love to see more enforcement of traffic laws when it comes to motorcyclists. I'm sure the checkpoints are an effective way of finding unlicensed riders. But they scare the crap out of me.

You make a fabulous point. And I agree wholeheartedly with you.

AmyNTX · Post by **AmyNTX** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:58 pm

all for checkpoints! mostly because of the drunk drivers...They have license check points here in Texas...I have seen several in my 2 years here. Most of the time they are in middle class neighborhoods...they are really getting strict here though about Motorcycle laws..especially the helmet one! A girl was in an empty parking lot practicing for her skills test..she did not have a helmet on..she got a ticket.

Safety first

Smiziley · Post by **Smiziley** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:02 pm

Still not sure exactly where I stand with checkpoints. Seems like most of the DUI checkpoints they put around here are established enough that everyone knows that they'll be up over the weekend, and there's ample side roads, which kind of waters down the idea.

We haven't had licensing checkpoints. Don't know how that'd go over. Although the DUI checkpoints usually end up being just that, checking licenses and issuing more tickets for suspended licenses and expired tags than catching drunks.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:08 pm

be weary of those "side roads" when I used to live in Illinois, there would be cops that would watch for people cutting down the side roads when they got within visual contact of the checkpoint. Then they would chase you down... They can be smart...

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:02 am

ericalm wrote:I tried to write a response to this, but found myself unable to do so without violating the Posting Guidelines I've sworn to uphold.

WHOA!! Is there a swearing in ceremony and everything!!??

Modernbuddy is the coolest scooter board out there!!

Oh... I agree 100% with Eric's post as well. I get the concept but it scares me too.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:23 am

ericalm wrote:...But they scare the crap out of me.

1++.

And don't get me started on speed cameras, run by private companies under contract to whatever jurisdiction wants the money generated by them.

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:40 am

StacyB wrote:The only issue I have with random checks is that I tend to see them in "economically challenged" areas rather than "posh" neighborhoods.

another way to justify more discrimination. If the people doing the checks were truly honest and fair then that's one thing BUT historically there seems to be a major lack of both those things

anndelise · Post by **anndelise** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:48 am

ericalm wrote:I fully expect them to be challenged in court.

And, my personal opinion, stated as apolitically as possible: I do want more enforcement of licensing. Around here, I would love to see more enforcement of traffic laws when it comes to motorcyclists. I'm sure the checkpoints are an effective way of finding unlicensed riders. But they scare the crap out of me.

I'm torn.

I do expect them to be challenged in court. And part of me hopes that they ARE challenged in court. Yet another part wants more enforcement of licensing. But realistically, I'm not sure how that can be done except to crack down on people who break traffic laws...which, well...I guess they are already trying to do.

While I would like to see more enforcement of traffic laws when it comes to motorcyclists, I would also like to see more enforcement of traffic laws when it comes to cars/trucks.

I worry that a lot of focus spent on cracking down on motorcyclists or two wheelers will put a bias against riding two wheels and is sorta supporting the idea that cars/trucks should own the road. I don't like that idea. I'd like to see more two wheels out there, and less cars/trucks.

If a car/truck isn't paying attention to his/her surroundings and cuts someone off or hits someone, then it's only the car/truck that usually gets damaged. If it's a two wheeler that gets totalled or harmed, then there seems to be the thought that 'two wheels are death machines' when it's not so much that two wheels are death machines...as that the four wheels aren't paying attention to the traffic laws nor road safety. Somehow, I'd rather see that cracked down on, rather than anything that supports two wheel bias.

But as I said, I don't know how it can be done. And I'm not sure if the local/state governments have any alternative ideas either.

(sorry for the run-on sentences there, too tired to edit)

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:16 am

As to checkpoints targeting specific groups, well, that may sometimes be the case. However, I live in a fairly upscale NJ township, and a quick scan of the local newspaper's "police blotter" shows that on any given weekend they're hauling in an average of 10 to 15 drunks. All local residents, all "respectable", etc., etc.

At the very least, though, the constant back and forth between civil rights and law enforcement methods is a healthy thing. Sort of a "checks and balances" affair.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the end of random checks for drunk drivers, as long as I had the right to haul one out of his/her ride and massage his/her skull with a piece of re-bar until he/she needed a rubber stopper to keep his/her brains from dribbling out his/her butt. As far as I'm concerned, when you drive drunk, you're holding a loaded gun to the heads of the people I love. Do that to me or mine, and the cops will be the least of your worries.

Sorry for the harsh tone. I spent many years working in my Dad's bar and grille, and I have absolutely no respect for drunks. Guess it's just a hot-button issue with me.

-Charlie

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:52 am

anndelise wrote:I worry that a lot of focus spent on cracking down on motorcyclists or two wheelers will put a bias against riding two wheels and is sorta supporting the idea that cars/trucks should own the road. I don't like that idea. I'd like to see more two wheels out there, and less cars/trucks.

Yeah, good point.

gymnation · Post by **gymnation** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:44 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHTtal_E ... re=related