Modern Buddy

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:00 am**

Hey all,

I've had an insatiable quest for motorcycle riding knowledge since being burned during a 300+ round trip on my new-used motorcycle. Back pains, butt pains, elbow and hand joint pains, and numb hands. In my searching, I found something called the "Master Yoda Riding Position." I've tested it out and dammit, why couldn't I have learned about it before the trip?

In any case, IMHO it's essential for all you motorcyclists (I know many figure out some or all of the principles by trial and error), and the principles apply for comfort (especially long-distance) on a scooter too.

http://midliferider.com/blog/2008/02/17 ... ster-yoda/ (with links to the original Master Yoda post on a BMW sport-touring forum)

Hope you enjoy!

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:08 am**

Good find. I'd like to add: strengthen your core muscles (back, abs, lats) to help improve posture.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:31 am**

greencountry,

Thank you. That was a very informative and rare article to find yet one that is very important for all of us.

PR

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:54 am**

Welcome Portland Rider! It does seem like a niche bit of knowledge, but apparently in motorcycle touring circles it's pretty well known.

I just realized the link to the original Master Yoda post is wrong. Here's the correct one:

http://www.bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthrea ... 57&fpart=1

Although he writes specific to one particular BMW motorcycle, he later clarifies (and many have accepted) that the principles are universal to riding on a two-wheeler. Hell, I'm gonna go try this with my mountain bike next time.

Try to ignore the guy's strange writing style. Clearly a verbal communicator trying to convey everything that he could with his voice through text using lots of caps.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:37 pm**

At 5'-11'' I find riding with my feet on the passinger pegs to be the most comfortable position. My weights centered, I can rest my elbows on my knees for long runs and imo it improves my manuverability.
Plus, I wear a CWU-36 flight jacket while riding my Italia so I probably even look a little Yodaish

Im curious to know if anyone else rides like that and what there opinion is???

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:48 pm**

sambrgr wrote:At 5'-11'' I find riding with my feet on the passinger pegs to be the most comfortable position. My weights centered, I can rest my elbows on my knees for long runs and imo it improves my manuverability.
Plus, I wear a CWU-36 flight jacket while riding my Italia so I probably even look a little Yodaish Im curious to know if anyone else rides like that and what there opinion is???

When I am doing longer stretches of riding, not stopping for lights, signs etc. I also put my feet up on the back pegs...I find that it eases the muscles in my lower back and quite comfy...I am 5'2"...

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:28 pm**

sambrgr wrote:At 5'-11'' I find riding with my feet on the passinger pegs to be the most comfortable position. My weights centered, I can rest my elbows on my knees for long runs and imo it improves my manuverability.
Plus, I wear a CWU-36 flight jacket while riding my Italia so I probably even look a little Yodaish Im curious to know if anyone else rides like that and what there opinion is???

On a scooter this is a great way to ride. Vespas don't force the issue like some other brands that have a sloping floorboard and seat, but it's still more comfortable to ride like that on just about any scooter. The seat to handlebar distance and general size of a scooter make the 'yoda' position almost the default for riding. Nothing special in the scooter world. But it's interesting to see such a long thread devoted on how to ride a B.M.W. in a way that most people ride scooters. Next time I see one, I'll just shout out, 'Why don't you just get a scooter?!'.

Sadly, scooter designers rarely give any thought to the human that will someday occupy the rider's position. The desired look and irrationally unimportant features, like undreseat storage, take a front seat to rider comfort, handling and safety.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:01 pm**

BGK wrote: Sadly, scooter designers rarely give any thought to the human that will someday occupy the rider's position. The desired look and irrationally unimportant features, like undreseat storage, take a front seat to rider comfort, handling and safety.

Scooters, by their very nature, are small so it's kind of hard to design good ergonomics into them for large people. Case in point: while I was working in Taiwan a few years back, a co-worker from the US rented a Honda Elite 150cc scooter to use while he was there. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but he weighed almost 400 pounds and sometimes it was hard to tell there was even a scooter under him. That poor little scooter suffered through fully compressed suspension for a whole month. I could swear the exhaust note was "OWW, OWW, OWW". He was quite a sight riding among the local Taiwanese.

And, there are plenty of scooters that are perfectly safe with great brakes and handling (such as the Blur), but unfortunately, most aren't imported into the US. As much as people like the Buddy here, it is one of the smaller scooters on the market and is (in my opinion) aimmed mostly at teenage/beginning riders so as such, doesn't have the best brakes or handling.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:21 pm**

I don't buy the apathy angle (no offense intended). To say that you can't design a good one because they are small misses the fact that there have been good examples in the past. It all has to do with floorboard and seat height and angle as well as handlebar position. The vespa P-Series has great ergonomics for a large range of body types. I believe it's success, like the large wheel honda cub, around the world for decades demonstrates it's successful design. Many people are clamoring for an automatic Stella. The aesthetic of the P-series is not that amazing. It's the feeling that one has at the reins of such a steed that is hard to describe, but is very appealing to a rider. It's a balanced, comfortable, confidence inspiring riding position. What I was referring to as 'safe' in the previous post was the aspect of rider confidence. It's the single greatest factor in road safety. Even more important than properly inflated tires and working headlights, IMHO.

Also, the idea that scooters are small also misses that they are about twice the size they used to be, when their ergonomics were more flexible for comfort for a large range of people. The Blur is HUGE when compared with pre-1990 scooters. Just because the word scooter conjures the idea that something is small and that many people call the large vehicles we have today scooters, does not make the current crop of the class small.

babblefish wrote:
BGK wrote: Sadly, scooter designers rarely give any thought to the human that will someday occupy the rider's position. The desired look and irrationally unimportant features, like undreseat storage, take a front seat to rider comfort, handling and safety.
Scooters, by their very nature, are small so it's kind of hard to design good ergonomics into them for large people. Case in point: while I was working in Taiwan a few years back, a co-worker from the US rented a Honda Elite 150cc scooter to use while he was there. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but he weighed almost 400 pounds and sometimes it was hard to tell there was even a scooter under him. That poor little scooter suffered through fully compressed suspension for a whole month. I could swear the exhaust note was "OWW, OWW, OWW". He was quite a sight riding among the local Taiwanese.

And, there are plenty of scooters that are perfectly safe with great brakes and handling (such as the Blur), but unfortunately, most aren't imported into the US. As much as people like the Buddy here, it is one of the smaller scooters on the market and is (in my opinion) aimmed mostly at teenage/beginning riders so as such, doesn't have the best brakes or handling.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:38 pm**

I agree with brooke, I was just telling someone the other day (Greencountry, maybe?) that the most comfortable seat I ever had on a long ride was a cruddy Vespa Super leather saddle seat with no padding and that stupid spring in front.

http://www.pirateupholstery.com/Thumbna ... bottom.jpg

And having all that floor space on a Vespa is awesome. I can put my feet up on the legshield, on the center channel, put my heels on the cowls, angle them in, out, etc...

The Blur seat is far comfier for a short ride, but there's just nowhere to go once your butt starts to hurt. A lot of other scooters are worse.

Look at bicycle seats, those little tiny hard seats are actually more comfy than a big fat padded cruiser seat on a long ride.

Bb.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:40 pm**

sambrgr wrote:At 5'-11'' I find riding with my feet on the passinger pegs to be the most comfortable position. My weights centered, I can rest my elbows on my knees for long runs and imo it improves my manuverability.
Plus, I wear a CWU-36 flight jacket while riding my Italia so I probably even look a little Yodaish Im curious to know if anyone else rides like that and what there opinion is???

+1 - Feet back on passenger is comfy, and your knees naturally stay out of the wind.

My search for a bigger bike is very related to this thread...I want a cruiser, but very concerned about the posture. I want my back and hips in alignment, and that's why I'm also strongly considering a Bergman as well as a Shadow 750 cruiser. My Buddy is great on my back, but I want more powah for longer rides.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:56 am**

Funny- after reading about MYRP, I was confused about it until I went for a ride. Then I realized that's the way I do ride, especially when the road is challenging.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:40 am**

LisaLisa wrote:Funny- after reading about MYRP, I was confused about it until I went for a ride. Then I realized that's the way I do ride, especially when the road is challenging.

Well... aren't *you* special...

Totally kidding.

Actually towards the end of my nightmarish ride I started to figure out arching the back and getting weight off the hands, but I didn't think of using the legs and thighs to hold myself up. What really got my attention about the MYRP was the author's noticing how cultural upbringing really affects how you physically carry your body. I was born in the US, but of Filipino Chinese cultural background, and I can squat in a way a lot of Americans can't (with your feet flat on the floor, your butt just an inch or two off the ground). I used to do it without thinking when I was growing up, cuz that's just how you squat, and friends were always like, "Whoa how are you doing that?"

I stopped doing it when I realized it's kinda unattractive to American sensibilities.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:19 pm**

hee hee-
You mean Shpeshull.

It's just that I always thought I had a weird way of sitting on the seat. So I went riding and... OMG that's what they meant!

BTW I was raised a murrrkin and I can squat, too.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:03 pm**

Would you all consider this a comfortable riding position? Just making sure.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:54 pm**

My eyes!!!!

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm**

greencountry wrote:My eyes!!!!

Bunnies my friend! Just look at the cute bunny and it will be alright. Yes....there you go....buuuunnnnny.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:19 pm**

djelliott wrote:
greencountry wrote:My eyes!!!!
Bunnies my friend! Just look at the cute bunny and it will be alright. Yes....there you go....buuuunnnnny.

That bunny's not strong enough! Need more bunny power!!

Ahh, that's better.

From http://www.summerpierre.com/2006/04/um- ... -this.html.

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:29 am**

That guy must be a plumber...

Excuse me while I go to my happy place now....

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:07 am**

babblefish wrote:That guy must be a plumber

or a crack addict.

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm**

greencountry wrote:
djelliott wrote:
greencountry wrote:My eyes!!!!
Bunnies my friend! Just look at the cute bunny and it will be alright. Yes....there you go....buuuunnnnny.

That bunny's not strong enough! Need more bunny power!!

Ahh, that's better.

Damn! What did they give that huge rabbit? Steroid Alert! For real what breed of rabbit is that anyway? That wabbit is just to cool....

Tim

From http://www.summerpierre.com/2006/04/um- ... -this.html.

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:08 pm**

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:38 pm**

BuddyLicious wrote: Damn! What did they give that huge rabbit? Steroid Alert! For real what breed of rabbit is that anyway? That wabbit is just to cool....

Methinks a little bit of Photoshop may have been involved in that picture.

Dustin

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:17 pm**

djelliott wrote:
BuddyLicious wrote: Damn! What did they give that huge rabbit? Steroid Alert! For real what breed of rabbit is that anyway? That wabbit is just to cool....
Methinks a little bit of Photoshop may have been involved in that picture.

Dustin

Nope, no Photoshopping...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsi ... 676904.stm

Apparently the breed is "German giant." Is this the coming of the fourth reich...?

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:17 pm**

I used to ride horses, english/jumping style, and posture was a HUGE important thing. I've found that through the years my posture has remained very good, whether just on foot or when riding a scooter. Like LisaLisa, I find that I've already been using the Yoda technique. The most helpful visualization I learned when riding horses was this: while sitting in the saddle, imagine a balloon is attached to the top of your head. Let that balloon gently lift your upper body into a straight yet relaxed position, with your legs and feet falling comfortably below you. Imaging that the balloon string travels straight from your shoulders to your hips, to your heels.
Now of course the leg position doesn't work on the scooters, but keeping my back and shoulders in alignment by thinking "up", keeps my back and butt comfortable for longer rides. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBhSxspw ... re=related The rider at the beginning of this video clearly shows the upright yet relaxed posture I mean.

Oooh sorry bout such a wordy post, but I am waiting for a friend to arrive so we can go pick apples, and have nothing better to do than lecture

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 am**

illnoise wrote:I agree with brooke, I was just telling someone the other day (Greencountry, maybe?) that the most comfortable seat I ever had on a long ride was a cruddy Vespa Super leather saddle seat with no padding and that stupid spring in front.

My most comfortable long rides are on my S2 Lambretta with the saddle seats. Tons of room to move my legs around. Nice big saddle. Perfect handlebar height and width.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:07 pm**

illnoise wrote: The Blur seat is far comfier for a short ride, but there's just nowhere to go once your butt starts to hurt.

there's room on my Blur

illnoise wrote: Look at bicycle seats, those little tiny hard seats are actually more comfy than a big fat padded cruiser seat on a long ride.

Bb.

the most comfy saddle I ever had on my road bike was a solid carbon fiber shell. it was definately firm but smooth and easy to reposition/slide up or back for hills and flats. for the long distance riding I used to do it was great.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:31 pm**

greencountry wrote:
djelliott wrote:
BuddyLicious wrote: Damn! What did they give that huge rabbit? Steroid Alert! For real what breed of rabbit is that anyway? That wabbit is just to cool....
Methinks a little bit of Photoshop may have been involved in that picture.

Dustin
Nope, no Photoshopping...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsi ... 676904.stm

Apparently the breed is "German giant." Is this the coming of the fourth reich...?

Nein, they're for a really big pot of hasenpfeffer.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:33 pm**

Nein, they're for a really big pot of hasenpfeffer.

[/quote]

Gotta love obscure Looney Toons references. Well played!

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:55 pm**

Modern Buddy

The Master Yoda Riding Position

The Master Yoda Riding Position

great post!