Modern Buddy

today was fun, I was getting my 4000 service at the dealership, as I was riding home the oil filter failed and leaked oil all over the place, I noticed because my engine lost power. Called the dealership, they picked it up and said it might need a new motor. so....
has this happened to anyone else?
Is there anything I should keep in mind when talking to the dealer, what can I do to make sure the warranty covers this?
Anything else I should know?

Fun part, I'm gonna be riding my huffy for the next week between my 2 jobs. It's supposed to be raining all next week, snow level is dropping to 900ft so it'll be damn cold at 7am when I leave for work, possible thunder storms and all that jazz. Basically I'm really bummed.

well you shouldn't have to pay a penny since the dealer did the oil change and failed to tighten the filter, its on them, not you, so don't worry, my bf did my oil change one time and didn't tighten it with a wrench, just hand, and it loosened while we were riding to the store to buy the wrench, the damge was on us since it was our fault, the engine died on the frontage road on I 10, it was horrible

i brought it in for the dealer to fix, they didnt replace the motor, more like the cylinder kit

good luck on riding in the cold...a huffy...i assume that's a bicycle?? just be careful out there and don't freeze to death!

the filter was on right, it just cracked down the side

on a lighter note, I found this photo on my hard drive, I think I found it while looking up local history
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/ ... w/0659.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">

Darn cold here down in San Jose, too, and the weather-naughts are predicting a possibility of flurries in the valley by Tuesday. Last time we had measurable snow was in 1976 or 1977, I believe. Hopefully, they are wrong (as usual).

Tenchi wrote:Darn cold here down in San Jose, too, and the weather-naughts are predicting a possibility of flurries in the valley by Tuesday. Last time we had measurable snow was in 1976 or 1977, I believe. Hopefully, they are wrong (as usual).

it snowed in santa cruz a few years ago

enzomatic wrote:the filter was on right, it just cracked down the side

Damn, that's a strange one. Seems like the repair should be on whoever made the oil filter if that's possible.

Racenut wrote:

enzomatic wrote:the filter was on right, it just cracked down the side

Damn, that's a strange one. Seems like the repair should be on whoever made the oil filter if that's possible.

same one they sell on the scooterworks website

This happened to my dad too at the 200 mile service, so sad.

Metro scooter was so nice, they just gave him a new bike for a few hundred more. (He went from 125, to 150, payed difference)

This has happened atleast 10 times now, whether a dealer does it, or you DIY, 10 times is just a estimate, it isnt common, but is well known.

I do my own oil changes, dont use the torque wrench, torque value of .8nm is wrong, the thing can take much more torque without stripping or breaking.

I do agree Metro does rock

i agree on the torque I always go a little past the tightest I can do with my hands, once again though the filter was on, it just failed, I guess it had some invisible fracture in it when it was installed.

oh wait wait wait, could I shell out a bit more and get the 150 put in?

Did you get a good look at the filter? Reason I'm asking is that I was wondering if there was any chance they over-torqued it with a metal oil-filter band wrench and either damaged the cannister portion or wrenched the crimped seal between the cannister and the threaded fitting apart.

I just use a 21mm hex socket, no problems damaging the filter, these filters are machine made, a bit hard for them to be defected from the factory.

I dont know if your dealer will let you trade the bike for a 150 or not, when the filter flew off my dad's 125, they allowed him to trade for another 125 for no charge, or pay the extra for a 150, this was way back before the scooter boom this summer.

this is why:
1 I do not DIY b/c if a dealer can blow it so can I.

2) I am thankful and supportive of my good dealer (P.O.C) b/c if they did this I know they would make it right and not try to twist the facts and blame it on me.

Technically, mechanics are people too, and once you do it so many times, it feels natural, so you could call yourself a mechanic too, just a DIY kind, not employed kind.

People who DIY oil changes have had this happen a few times in the past, then once in a while, a dealer will do it by accident. Very hard for the oil filter to come lost say 500 miles later, if it is loose, it'll come within the first 20-30 miles, and you better hit the kill switch right away, or else the engine will be 100% blown and needs replacing/buy a new bike.

enzomatic wrote:the filter was on right, it just cracked down the side

Really sorry to hear that happened to you. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't heard more similar oil filter failures. When the mechanic has to tighten it down as hard as we're hearing it has to be tightened down on the Buddy, that is bound to cause stress on the can, particularly along any seam(s) and crimps.

Again, I'm really sorry to hear that it happened to you. I hope you are back on the road soon.

thanks all, the shop calls genuine tomorrow, I'll find out what the plan is by then hopefully.

I know we've talked about this before, but I'll post it up here again because there are quite a few new folks on the Forum...You've gotta tighten that filter like your life depends on it (it does). This does NOT mean finger tight + 1/4 turn. I know that might be how your gramps tightened the filter on his '38 DeSoto, but this is a motorcycle and when the filter comes off, that oil goes right onto your rear tire. A blown motor could be the least of your worries.

rondothemidget wrote:

>I would have hand-tightened it if my hand could have had a better grip. I used a socket wrench and tightened it like I do on my cars; one little nudge tighter than the point of hand tightening just to be safe. My brother's a Harley mechanic and he's never used a torque wrench for oil filters.<

This method simply DOES NOT WORK. I think we all can testify to this at this point, and frankly I don't care what someone's brother does at their Harley shop, that doesn't make it right. BTW: Per HD the oil filter torque rating is between 14~21 ft/lbs. you may want to call your brother and let him know, i'm sure his customers would appreciate that.

Motorcycle oil filters have different installation instructions than car filters.

http://cbrworld.net/forums/thread/248252.aspx

basically, here's the rule:

If you don't have a torque wrench:
Put a light film of oil on the rubber gasket of the oil filter.
Put it on hand tight.
Then turn it another 3/4 - 7/8's of a turn. It should be so tight you fear crushing the filter canister.


When we put them on here at the shop we do use a torque wrench and we install them at 14~16 ft/lbs.

Just for fun...we tested a few oil filters on brand new buddy scooters to see how much torque it would take to remove one...

20~30 ft/lbs. were required on the 4 bikes we tested. So it's pretty clear the factory isn't installing them by hand + a 1/4 turn.

Doing your own maintenance is great...as long as you do it right. Saving $40 on an oil change isn't worth crashing or buying a new motor.

by the way, phil, thanks for your consult with myers- the new stator solved the problem.

I'll keep that in mind phil,
so, good news, warranty went through, scooter should be ready to go on saturday, the following tuesday at the latest. I'll update about how it went.

So, can you share with us the diagnosis of what actually went wrong. If I undertand your earlier posts, this was not a case of the filter coming loose due to improper tightening. Did the filter case split from some inherent defect or was it damaged by the mechanic when it was installed or .............

pocphil wrote:Doing your own maintenance is great...as long as you do it right. Saving $40 on an oil change isn't worth crashing or buying a new motor.

wow! you only charge $40 for an oil change? here in seattle, ducati charges $130!!!

scullyfu wrote:

pocphil wrote:Doing your own maintenance is great...as long as you do it right. Saving $40 on an oil change isn't worth crashing or buying a new motor.

wow! you only charge $40 for an oil change? here in seattle, ducati charges $130!!!

I'm sure that's just for the first service, I really cant see how a 10-15 minute procedure would cost $130 dollars.

scullyfu wrote:

pocphil wrote:Doing your own maintenance is great...as long as you do it right. Saving $40 on an oil change isn't worth crashing or buying a new motor.

wow! you only charge $40 for an oil change? here in seattle, ducati charges $130!!!

Close proximity to Italian bikes.

Dooglas wrote:So, can you share with us the diagnosis of what actually went wrong. If I undertand your earlier posts, this was not a case of the filter coming loose due to improper tightening. Did the filter case split from some inherent defect or was it damaged by the mechanic when it was installed or .............

I saw that the filter was still on tight, I didn't get a great look at it because it was raining and the dealer came to pic it up in a matter of minutes, he says that there was a crack in the filter, didn't say how it got there but suggested that it was a defect in the filter.

Anyone know what sort of oil pressure these things generate at cruising rpm?? They have a very simple pump so it can't be that much. I've never seen an oil filter crack from a factory defect... but several from overzealous use of a metal band type filter wrench. Interested to learn if these filters are simply soooooo poorly made they're cracking or if it is indeed filter wrench abuse [suspect the latter].

Hate to say it but full time mechanics who do oil changes 'all the time' are the ones most likely to screw up and crimp a filter, fail to tighten a drain plug, or get sidetracked/ distracted and forget to refill the crankcase. Have seen all the above happen from oil change shops to reputable dealerships. If you're working on your baby chances are you'll go slow and double check everything.

jfrost2 wrote:

scullyfu wrote:

pocphil wrote:Doing your own maintenance is great...as long as you do it right. Saving $40 on an oil change isn't worth crashing or buying a new motor.

wow! you only charge $40 for an oil change? here in seattle, ducati charges $130!!!

I'm sure that's just for the first service, I really cant see how a 10-15 minute procedure would cost $130 dollars.

well, don't be so sure, jfrost. i paid that the last oil change i had and it was the 2nd oil change; the first one was comped. seattle is an expensive kinda town. in many ways, we get to pay for the privilege of living here.

Spinergy wrote:Anyone know what sort of oil pressure these things generate at cruising rpm?? They have a very simple pump so it can't be that much. I've never seen an oil filter crack from a factory defect... but several from overzealous use of a metal band type filter wrench. Interested to learn if these filters are simply soooooo poorly made they're cracking or if it is indeed filter wrench abuse [suspect the latter].

Hate to say it but full time mechanics who do oil changes 'all the time' are the ones most likely to screw up and crimp a filter, fail to tighten a drain plug, or get sidetracked/ distracted and forget to refill the crankcase. Have seen all the above happen from oil change shops to reputable dealerships. If you're working on your baby chances are you'll go slow and double check everything.

I'm with you on this Spinergy. I suggest everyone change their own oil and filter on scooters as well as cars and trucks. How often do you really get up close and personal with your vehicle other than when you change your own oil and check the nether reaches of the vehicle. It's a simple procedure that can be accomplished by the most novice of owners. Besides when was the last time you really spoke with your scooter mechanic? Either they are simple and you are better off doing your own work or they are quite knowledgeable and thus very busy and have no time to talk to you as they are rebuilding an engine from the drive shaft up where their expertise should be spent, not on oil changes. And if you are a commuter worth your salt the frequency of oil changes will necessitate your own oil changes as you won't be able to leave your scooter overnight or for a couple of days. I change my own tires to avoid just such delays. I aint afraid-a-no tire irons.

Spinergy wrote:Hate to say it but full time mechanics who do oil changes 'all the time' are the ones most likely to screw up and crimp a filter, fail to tighten a drain plug, or get sidetracked/ distracted and forget to refill the crankcase. Have seen all the above happen from oil change shops to reputable dealerships. If you're working on your baby chances are you'll go slow and double check everything.

Although I bought my Buddy at Scooterworks, I had my first service done at True Imports in Westmont, Illinois. The mechanic that was working on my Buddy stopped working and started talking to a hottie on a Vespa. When I got home (about a two mile trip) I noticed about an ounce of oil on my garage floor below the drain plug. The mechanic never tightened the plug! I was very lucky and learned a good lesson...Do it myself!

tekrek wrote: I suggest everyone change their own oil and filter on scooters as well as cars and trucks. How often do you really get up close and personal with your vehicle other than when you change your own oil and check the nether reaches of the vehicle. It's a simple procedure that can be accomplished by the most novice of owners. Besides when was the last time you really spoke with your scooter mechanic? Either they are simple and you are better off doing your own work or they are quite knowledgeable and thus very busy and have no time to talk to you as they are rebuilding an engine from the drive shaft up where their expertise should be spent, not on oil changes. And if you are a commuter worth your salt the frequency of oil changes will necessitate your own oil changes as you won't be able to leave your scooter overnight or for a couple of days. I change my own tires to avoid just such delays. I aint afraid-a-no tire irons.

I agree, I do all my own oil changes, except when they are included in the required warranty service. I unfortunately live in a 1 bedroom apt and don't have much room for tinkering, but I usually manage to get a buddy to hold my buddy on the curb so I can fit a pan under it. LOL they should just run some funnel system through the center stand since that's where the oil wants to go anyways.

enzomatic wrote:.

I agree, I do all my own oil changes, except when they are included in the required warranty service. I unfortunately live in a 1 bedroom apt and don't have much room for tinkering, but I usually manage to get a buddy to hold my buddy on the curb so I can fit a pan under it. LOL they should just run some funnel system through the center stand since that's where the oil wants to go anyways.[/quote]


Use a baking tin of some kind that holds about a quart (shorter than a drain pan). I use a small loaf pan. (Don't mention that to my wife please ). And put it on the side stand while you are changing filter and draining. Does not completely avoid the drain on the center stand, but it helps!

Tenchi wrote:Darn cold here down in San Jose, too, and the weather-naughts are predicting a possibility of flurries in the valley by Tuesday. Last time we had measurable snow was in 1976 or 1977, I believe. Hopefully, they are wrong (as usual).

Yeah it is, I share your pain, my house thermostat is broken too! Snap!

So bad news is the parts still haven't come in, hopefully they've at least been shipped.

Good news is they are lending me an 08 125, had .8 miles on it. hate to break it to you but my cream buddy was a hell of a lot quicker than this Red one
I do have to admit that I'm falling for the longer mirrors and I totally forgot about the 08 horn until I beeped someone who pulled in front of me, I scared the snot out of myself.
I'll be heading to southern cali until sunday, hopefully something shows up at the shop so I can get my bud back.

Probably has to do with break in, your bike was ridden until it could do it all, now you got a newer bike that isnt broken in, it's sorta limited since the engine doesnt have many miles on it.

enzomatic wrote:Good news is they are lending me an 08 125, had .8 miles on it.

That is very good news indeed. I know that it would be best not to have to endure the hassle, but that is pretty awesome of the shop to loan you a bike while yours is repaired! I'm very impressed with that.

I was impressed as well, and hey, like 2 days after they got the parts form genuine, i'm up and riding my buddy again. So as of yesterday, buddy is back.

Here's what I did this weekend when I changed my oil and filter.
Put a hose clamp on so that it butts up against the skid plate of the oil cooler.
Hopefully, the tin is enough to keep the filter in place so it doesn't back off.
I'll keep an eye on it, nonetheless.

eldoroddo wrote:Here's what I did this weekend when I changed my oil and filter.
Put a hose clamp on so that it butts up against the skid plate of the oil cooler.
Hopefully, the tin is enough to keep the filter in place so it doesn't back off.
I'll keep an eye on it, nonetheless.

Thats a good idea and a lot of racers do stuff like that to make sure their oil filters and oil plugs don't come off.